Advanced Marksmanship  The one that got away

RayDog

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I competed in the 2011 Steel Safari last weekend. Over the 2 day match I fired 120 times at targets.I hit 105 times and missed 15 times. Of those 15 misses 14 I'm cool with. Even though I should have shot better off the sticks on the first day dropping 5 of my 10 missed on day one from the sticks. So besides me sucking I understand those 10 misses. On day two I was better from the sticks thankfully and only dropped 5 targets out of the 60 for the day. Of those 5 misses one has wondering what the hell happened as the others were accounted for to me not holding correctly for wind, usually not enough as it was hard to get a good read downrange in the limited time we had to complete the stages.
So the missed shot. It was a stage that had 6 targets to be engaged from a prone position shooting off a ridge down into a somewhat protect gully or small valley whatever you want to call it. I don't have my notebook with me right now but I think the targets went 420, 460, 530,600, 600 and 667.
hit the first 2 pretty dam centered on the plates so my wind call was good. I dialed my dope for 530 had a great hold and a very good let off. The dam shot went way high, so high that I check my elevation knob thinking I messed something up but I had dialed correct. Get it out of mind take next shots and the wonderful sound of bullet hitting steel was my reward. I used my Swaro LSR to range the target again when I was done and the range I had was correct. There didn't appear to be anything in front of my muzzle to hit while shooting. So what causes a shot to go 20 feet high? Out of 120 shots I'm good with 119 of them but being the way I am I want to know why I dropped that point.
Any ideas?
 

RayDog

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Re: The one that got away

I checked my book. It was the third target at 530 I shot over.

Maybe hit a bug or something???? I'll get over it I guess. I thought someone would have a scientific answer for me.
 

BOLTRIPPER

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Re: The one that got away

once upon a time in time and a place where the locals don't lick stamps........there was this range that had a very very very big hole in the earth pretty much right in front of the impact berm....so deep was this hole that it constituted yet another rifle range bi-secting the range currently used.


anyway......when the wind picked up the gust boiled from the lower range and thus launched the inflight rounds from the upper range....to the tune of 10 feet over and above what was normal.

we're talking big .300wm bullets here


so Boltripper thinks you RAYDOG were the recipient of an unpleasant up draft.....


we both have seen what the wind do at SanJon....
 

WRM

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Re: The one that got away

We witnessed something similar at ASC awhile back, so I'll throw it out for consideration - Baffle strike?...
 

JFComfort

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Re: The one that got away

Was the 530 target deepest in the gully? What I'm thinking is that, that shot had enough angle to cause a significant difference between the line of sight range and the horizontal range. Just a guess, maybe that round had more powder in it than the rest..
 

The Mall Ninja

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Re: The one that got away

Were these handloads or factory?, Did the brass have any signs of overpressure? If you were doing good, goofed one, then went back to good, you might have had one loaded a little hotter than normal which could cause the abnormality...
 

Goldbeachman

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Re: The one that got away

Weird story. I'd vote for wind but 20 feet is an awful lot (at 500x) and other shooters would likely have suffered the same fate and you'd think you'd of heard about it. You didn't mention the caliber and speed but I can't get a ballistic calculator to give a similar result even with a hyper overcharge load on a heavy bullet. I like the bug theory but would imagine that bug would have to pretty close to shooter for an upward ricochet of that magnitude at target. Weird.
 

RayDog

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Re: The one that got away

No strikes in can. We do have a spot out here in the Pawnee that will result in shots going over the target. Drives me nuts when it's like that. It was not the angle of the shot I know that. A hot load would have to be stupid blow my face off hot to be that high at 530. I shoot the 139s at 2950 now. brass ejected smooth didn't look at it. I'll have to take a look at the spot again. I'd like to get down there for a couple days of training in Aug sometime. I'll take a good look at the spot and see what could cause the updraft. You know how it is there Bolt, not a lot of time to examine the terrain of the stage before sending rounds.

You guys don't like the bug idea ?
 

Bigwheels

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    Re: The one that got away

    Perhaps it was a deformed bullet. Something on the inside. Making it unstable.
     

    RayDog

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    Re: The one that got away

    So now I have to start weighing my bullets. Good info. I didn't think about that
     

    former naval person

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    Re: The one that got away

    Another random thought...I doubt I would do it for practice, but before a match...consider doing as LTR David recommends...weigh the loaded rounds for "quality control". A few grains off one way or another would be normal...more than 10 grains or so could mean a defective core or an incorrect charge. You can break the round down and diagnose the problem. You have intercepted two possible penalty problems with one weighing. Good shooting. FNP
     

    lowlight

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    Re: The one that got away

    Ray is it possible, you barely glanced off the top of the plate causing it to appear to be 20ft high, when really you were only off a little bit... I don't know the lay of the land, but I have seen glances off the edges that make it look like a crazy miss.
     

    JByrd

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    Re: The one that got away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ray is it possible, you barely glanced off the top of the plate causing it to appear to be 20ft high, when really you were only off a little bit... I don't know the lay of the land, but I have seen glances off the edges that make it look like a crazy miss. </div></div>

    plain and simple
     

    RayDog

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    Re: The one that got away

    No I don't think it was a glance but at this point any of the ideas above are possible I guess.
    My elevations for the match were pretty dam spot on so to hit high on the edge I'd would have had to pull the shot. I'm 99% sure I didn't. The reticle was were I wanted it when the shot broke and when I saw the impact of the miss. It was so high that I thought I dialed wrong right away. But anything is possible
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: The one that got away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So now I have to start weighing my bullets. Good info. I didn't think about that </div></div>

    BULLSHIT.

    ANY abnormality to the bullet - light weight, small diameter, etc. - is going to make it hit LOW. Low weight = lower pressure and lower BC = low; small diameter = low pressure = low.

    If it has an abnormality that causes it to take some oddball path, that path WILL NOT BE HIGH, as the bullet would not be traveling in its normal rotation, therefore is "dirty" as it goes through the air, lowering its BC, making it hit, again, LOW.

    I like LL's explanation the best - sounds like you need to go re-score the match and give you one more hit
     

    Zak Smith

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    Re: The one that got away

    Edge hits are "usually" spottable because the plate does move (often a small "waggle"), although there is usually no ding. Alternatively, you could have shot through the strap and then saw splash from the bullet after it passed through. An updraft is possible, but you'd only miss by a tiny bit then.

    We should go back and range and shoot those targets to see..
     

    Hoser

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    Re: The one that got away

    That stage kicked my ass this year and last. Not sure why as I cleaned its twin on the south course the following day, both years.

    I bet you just kissed the top of the plate/strap and the bullet went batshit.