The Panic Has Begun
- Thread starter jmar
- Start date
I'm not sure what commentary it is on the general gun owning public that panic buying leads to sold out novelty items. Either everyone's ready to go and said "fuc% it, why not" or they're just victims of media hysteria. Lol.
I assume it is a rather good possibility that the ATF shortly revokes all permissions for fire enhancing devices & crank attachments & "disability enabling devices" and reverts to a rather strict trigger pull definition. It would be an easy political sop & not meet with much resistance, especially if something like the hearing protection act is slipped in at the same time.
When these first came out I was at this local gun range and they had a couple 9mm ARs with them and you could rent them for cheap.....so I said why not for the shits and giggles of it. It was pretty fun and I was pretty amazed at just how close you could come to full auto for the money. Anyway the owner and I had a conversation about how all it would take is one nut job doing what happened and these things would get outlawed. I am sad that unfortunately that day has come. Hopefully they won't because it still isn't going to make anyone safer. Their is a lot of shit going on that's not passing the smell test over this.
I noticed that the ammo cans of 193 and 855 were gone from the shelves of my local Academy sporting goods store. I haven't seen that in a while.... maybe it's nothing.
I hope its nothing... Three months ago we started getting .22lr back in stock, .223 was going down in price again, and powder/primers are not hard to find.
My local walmart still has Even Tula .223 for $4.78 so I hope its nothing.
I think “hi cap” magazines are going to be on the chopping block as well, magpuls drums and surefire mags,
kiss em me goodbye probably looking at 10rd max ala Clinton’s ban..
kiss em me goodbye probably looking at 10rd max ala Clinton’s ban..
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While I think the ATF might do something about bump fires (though that might take legislation... that ain't happening).. But as someone above said, calling a device that 'simulates' automatic fire by making a gun fire... 600 RPM is probably a good target. Not that I agree with it.... but these bump-fire makers have been on the ragged edge of the letter of the law. It would not be hard to classify them as a form of 'sear' and be done with it.
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The real issue is and continues to be mental health. All these people, at their core, are bat**it crazy. You don't do stuff like this if you are fundamentally sane. I argue that even the 'terrorist' who seems to have a cause is, at core, nuttier than squirrel-poo when they transition from being a believer in a cause... to a mass-killer. It's wrong in the head. And the more these people are identified as mental-cases, the less glamorous the acts will be. IMHO.
This guy seems to have had no pattern or profile. A total anomaly. But one of the best lines I saw was from an FBI-type who said "Genetics loads the gun. A life experience pulls the trigger." An interesting way of looking at the events that push these people over the edge.
Again, blame gunowners. Blame inanimate (non-voting) objects. Blame blame blame. Easier than getting to the root of the problem, which is that there is a tiny percentage of human beings who are wired wrong and need to be dealt with before their ingrown defects lead them down the path of mass stabbings, truck-running-overs, suicide-bombings, poisionings and, yes... shootings.
Sadly,
Sirhr
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The real issue is and continues to be mental health. All these people, at their core, are bat**it crazy. You don't do stuff like this if you are fundamentally sane. I argue that even the 'terrorist' who seems to have a cause is, at core, nuttier than squirrel-poo when they transition from being a believer in a cause... to a mass-killer. It's wrong in the head. And the more these people are identified as mental-cases, the less glamorous the acts will be. IMHO.
This guy seems to have had no pattern or profile. A total anomaly. But one of the best lines I saw was from an FBI-type who said "Genetics loads the gun. A life experience pulls the trigger." An interesting way of looking at the events that push these people over the edge.
Again, blame gunowners. Blame inanimate (non-voting) objects. Blame blame blame. Easier than getting to the root of the problem, which is that there is a tiny percentage of human beings who are wired wrong and need to be dealt with before their ingrown defects lead them down the path of mass stabbings, truck-running-overs, suicide-bombings, poisionings and, yes... shootings.
Sadly,
Sirhr
The guy owned two airplanes, apparently. Why not just load one of them up with shit that goes *BOOM*, fill the tanks, and then pile it in? And if he had, would we then be looking at some sort of sea change in private aviation? Would aircraft owners be looking at a mass, enforced lock-down?
Buy it cheap, stack it deep, rinse, repeat ...
Buy it cheap, stack it deep, rinse, repeat ...
There in lies another problem. How do we ahead of time say "This one needs 'corrective therapy or even isolation from society in general'. Its one hell of a slippery slope and most of the pychologists lean toward the very liberal view that "Guns are the problem".
While I agree whole-heartedly with your identification of the problem, we have to be careful with legislating "crazy", Leftists already have decided that all gun owners are crazy and therefore unfit for regular society. For them, there is no stretch to removing all of us from the gene pool because, by their definition, we are genetically wrong in the head and expendable.
We all know that accessories like Bump/Slide fire stocks, Binary triggers, solvent traps, arm braces and such are as Sirhr said "on the ragged edge". Items that are legal based on the "letter" of the law but obvious to anyone they go against the "spirit" of the law. These items do not help us preserve our freedom. As it puts us all in a bad light. When the talk turns to more laws, and we gun owners say "enforce the laws on the books" everyone knows in a case like this the law was skirted. We know, but we are just trying to do damage control.
There can not be one person here who did not think "this is going to be trouble" the first time they saw any of these devices.
There can not be one person here who did not think "this is going to be trouble" the first time they saw any of these devices.
And what if "preserving our freedom" includes a critical need to employ sustained rapid fire? What then?
well seeing as how bans and restrictions on SBRs/ FA/ Suppressors are all unconstitutional anyways.....i have no moral rejection to "skirting" those laws.
we enforce laws as the are WRITTEN......not as we FEEL they should be interpreted.......thats how we got into the mess with the NFA in the first place.
when you write shit laws just to say "i passed something".....dont be surprised when people find ways around it......especially when those laws suppress civil liberties.
quite an ironic statement coming from someone with the handle "2ndammendfan"......
I have been wondering this myself. He could have easily killed way more people using his plane than using firearms. He supposedly had fertilizer in his vehicle too. Why not put that on the plane. I just think it would have been easier to fly his plane into that crowd.
hmmmm, i wonder if it has anything to do with HPA vote coming up?........using a plane wouldnt really suit the liberal gun grabbing narrative of the people pulling the strings......
funny how there always seems to be a mass shooting before any major gun rights vote.....huh, what a strange coincidence
and i think the choice of targets was very deliberate......seems like someone is trying to send a message.
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Notice I never said "I don't see the NEED". All I heard on the damn radio yesterday was people calling in saying the word NEED, NEED, NEED.
I see now your high light (bold) and I see where you are going. Trust me I thought long and hard about that post. I never used the word "Ban" either. If I didn't not see the possible safety issue I would love to try (buy) a binary trigger.
We all know these devices are made to go around the law. I am not discounting their possible usefulness and sadly we have proof they work. The only one I won't touch at this point is a "solvent trap" as
I know a couple people who have had a visit from the ATF over such things. (dumdasses have to post shit online).
I know "screw the outsiders", and that is easy to say with Trump as POTUS but we all know the anti-gun can and will point to this as a reason we need more laws. If there is one thing I am against it is more damn laws.
Perhaps because the incident was conspired with the real targets being the NRA and 2A.
Look at the specific items used and then who was conveniently on the news & twitter pushing an agenda within hours of the incident.
The devices did not cause the killing, your buying into their game thinking an talking/posting like that. If you want wholesale killing the gun is a item very far down on the preferred list. How come your not against trucks, cars, doctors, an the like? They kill far more every day? You have bought into people control! Chicago's policy's have killed an will continue to kill more people every day yet, you seem to have no issue with that? Policy's among other things precipitate mass killing, not devices. It's very easy to push a mentally unstable person over the edge, an that is they way the left an the NWO/OWO works, wake up to that fact!
I understand your argument and believe it does have merit. I just look at it a little different. My view is more along the lines of anything that pokes holes in their laws and shows how ridiculous they are is a good thing. They must have felt impotent when after the 94 AWB was law all the rifles they banned by name were still being sold by other names, less the evil threaded muzzle and totally useful bayonet lug. Olympic renamed their banned rifle the PCR-15. Politically Correct Rifle - 15. LOL.
Come on Veer where would he get explosives? Oh wait what did they find in his trunk?
Given what this dirtbag had access to the results could have been far worse. The venue shared a fencline with the airport and is less than a mile from the commuter/private field. He easily could have loaded up with fuel and explosives, taken off and circled right around and down.
I think that the phycological impact of guns vs aircraft is more damaging to the population. Post 9/11 folks didnt develop a fear of planes just like in Europe there is no fear of vehicles recently used as weapons.
But a mass shooting is somehow different in the minds of people. We as responsible gun owners, military and LEO see the threat potental that the sheeple do not. Regardless of what could have happened poeople will put their heads up their asses and blame an object with complete dissregard to what other options he had readily available.
Edit to add:
I believe he choose this method because he wanted to witness the terror and feel big, in control. Had he used a plane there would have been more casualties but he would not have been able to see the results as he most likely would have died in the crash. Much the way an arsonist wants to watch a fire burn I think he wanted to see the chaos he caused so it wasn't about the numbers.
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I am not buying into their game. I never said ban, I never questioned the NEED. I think MtnCreek understood what I was saying.
After other mass shootings I am sure most of us had the thought (please don't be an AR-15) well I think we have fought the battle on the AR-15 well and now it is somewhat of a non-issue.
Obviously the battle is going to turn to accessories that make the gun "better".
Just cause I play Devil's advocate does mean I believe. I like to know where the next attack is coming from. We were blindsided by the 94 AWB.
Without going into huge long details that would explain and justify the entire conversation. I have a little story.
Years ago a person who for the most part disliked how I did something for years, came up to me as asked how he could do something. I assure you nothing involved any criminal act of any kind but some with a feeling of higher moral superiority might think it should be. That was him, for years he looked down on me for my actions, and then one day low and behold he needed me.
Anyway after I explained what he needed to do, he said " Thanks, sorry I don't think like a criminal". My response was " Well if your going to be one you might want to start".
The point to that is seeing things from your enemy or adversary's view point is never a bad thing.
I know that story may paint me in a bad light, and if anyone would like an explanation they can PM me, but it will not be a short story.
Wholeheartedly agree with you. These novelty items are going to be the undoing of other things... a segway into other legislation. I honestly can't believe the ATF interpretation of the law allows for this stuff
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Add a spring to a bumpfire and it instantly becomes a machine gun by ATF definition. Frankly surprised they lasted this long.
Recently saw a vid with a bumpfire and echo trigger on a braced pistol, soon as I saw that on youtube I knew these items were going to draw attention. Just didnt think it would be this type of attention.
Recently saw a vid with a bumpfire and echo trigger on a braced pistol, soon as I saw that on youtube I knew these items were going to draw attention. Just didnt think it would be this type of attention.
So whats your point?......30 seconds with a file and i can have a machine gun too.....no bump stock required
No point other than I am surprised how many pro gun youtube channels post vids that I think draw unneeded attention to items that are legal but questioable.
I guess Im from the lets not draw attention to it crowd.
I guess Im from the lets not draw attention to it crowd.
Big surprise its Feinstien, funny how now all of a sudden they now know the difference between a semi auto and a machine gun. Not that long ago she used term almost interchangably.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...like-ones-used-in-las-vegas-shooting.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...like-ones-used-in-las-vegas-shooting.amp.html
Just heard about this. I believe it was Fienstein (on radio) and she said "We need to ban any accessory that increases the rate of fire to that of a machine gun". Well if we can use Jerry Miculek as our tester then I think we will be ok. That or his trigger finger will now be an illegal accessory.
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They knew the difference back in 1986, when Charlie Rangel openly on transcript and video ' illegally' passed the Hughes Amendment. Congress stood by it then, as they do today . The Votes were not there, and the proof of Congressional injustice is openly there for all to see on both transcript and Video .But who gives a fuck if your Gov. walks on your back ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Mx2UcSEvQ
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Holy shit I was 11 when that happend and never watched this till now. My enrire adult life I just accepted this to be the law of the land.
It looks like a bait and switch for sure.
It looks like a bait and switch for sure.
This nut job was all about the guns, thats the driving force, he takes what's on the market, puts it together, multiples x12 shoots up a arena full of diplorables or those that would congregate with deplorable. He knows he fucked himself somehow with his girlfriend and some other people that are going to wash up. Then they will find he has some terminal medical condition. He takes himself deep, forces the BS gun uproar, plays the democrats like a fiddle against Trump.
end of story.
end of story.
Some of you are thinking backwards. We need to stop letting things get banned and start un-banning things. Fully automatics should be legalized, every gun law is unconstitutional. The more compromises we make on our 2nd Amendment the further away it gets and the harder the climb to take it back will be. It's a scary thought that none of us want to think, but the shooter could have almost definitely killed more with a semi automatic if there was actual aiming and not using a clumsy bumpfire. It's amazing in a crowd of thousands only 59 died, thank god he must have been a very poor marksman!
All this talk about bump fires is left wing radicalization on soccer moms, I never would have thought any gun enthusiasts would think they're a problem. But it's not all bad at least the bump fires are taking the blame of the AR in this shooting. All anyone cares about is the stock and not the rifle oddly. If he used a bone stock AR like I mentioned earlier I can't even imagine what conversations we'd be having.
All this talk about bump fires is left wing radicalization on soccer moms, I never would have thought any gun enthusiasts would think they're a problem. But it's not all bad at least the bump fires are taking the blame of the AR in this shooting. All anyone cares about is the stock and not the rifle oddly. If he used a bone stock AR like I mentioned earlier I can't even imagine what conversations we'd be having.
Seriously, give this 1-2 weeks.
Nothing will come out of this except hurt feelings and whiny liberals.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
Nothing will come out of this except hurt feelings and whiny liberals.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
With the NRA on board for review of bump fire stocks you can guarantee they'll be banned in the near future. I guess like someone said. It took the focus off the actual AR platform.
I do like how they said "the Obama administration ATF approved their use on two occasions." Lol. Nice
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I do like how they said "the Obama administration ATF approved their use on two occasions." Lol. Nice
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I make an honest effort to recognize the spirit as well as the letter of the law and to stay within the law's confines. I am as legitimately law abiding as I can honestly be.
Skirting the edge holds no fascination for me. It caters to the natural small immaturities in all of us. Personally, I think it's dumb; sophomoric dumb.
But there's real bad shit coming down the pike, and when we all get steamrollered by it, I will be just another one of those flat folk.
In places like DC, Chicago, Portland, and San Francisco, this all makes perfect sense. I guess we all have a lot to learn from those places.
...And now, it's Las Vegas that's driving the steamroller.
Greg
Skirting the edge holds no fascination for me. It caters to the natural small immaturities in all of us. Personally, I think it's dumb; sophomoric dumb.
But there's real bad shit coming down the pike, and when we all get steamrollered by it, I will be just another one of those flat folk.
In places like DC, Chicago, Portland, and San Francisco, this all makes perfect sense. I guess we all have a lot to learn from those places.
...And now, it's Las Vegas that's driving the steamroller.
Greg
