Thinking about getting a vudoo, or should I settle for a CZ? Advice needed.

GordonsGarage

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Sep 15, 2020
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Long time lurker, first time poster.
Been into accurate 22lr for a long time, have a savage mkii in an aluminum chassis I made but find myself wanting more.
22LR is by far what gets shot the most, so I've already talked myself into dropping the funds on a precision bolt gun.
Now, to look for a used vudoo, buy an already worked over CZ from someone upgrading to a vudoo, or consider dropping the funds on a new vudoo?
I feel like if I settled on a CZ, and even if it was as accurate as a vudoo, I might always find myself thinking how much better would a vudoo be?
I have some time to make a decision/look for a used deal (I'm waiting on a DA Mask, I have other 22 cans but nothing worthy of a vudoo or CZ).
If I do go vudoo what barrel contour and length should I be looking for? 18"? Use will be 50 yards on starlings out to 400+. Does a 20" vudoo barrel group any better than a 16"? I would prefer to keep it short if accuracy doesn't improve, the rifle will always be suppressed and run subsonic match ammo.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm the new guy.
 
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littlepod

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    Do you plan on doing PRS/NRL22 etc? I'm thinking of my second Vudoo now just so I can get it heavier/balance well, and am considering most likely a 20" MTU.

    If you're not competing and don't need all the R700 benefits and options, then I don't think it matters. You can get a CZ shooting tight groups with a tuner on a bench. Just get the CZ 457 MTR and call it good.
     

    GordonsGarage

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    I won't be doing any real competitions, and don't compete center fire either.
    The 700 benefits do appeal to me but not as much as someone truly setting up an identical clone of their center fire rifle.
    Rifle will likely be shot prone or rested on a handrail/limb/golfcart/etc most of its life, so the weight of a chassis or longer barrel isn't really an issue if I went that route. I prefer a little heavier rifle personally, the cz in the manners CF stock doesn't appeal as much as something in say an mpa ba chassis.
     

    AMTGMC

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    Long time lurker, first time poster.
    Been into accurate 22lr for a long time, have a savage mkii in an aluminum chassis I made but find myself wanting more.
    22LR is by far what gets shot the most, so I've already talked myself into dropping the funds on a precision bolt gun.
    Now, to look for a used vudoo, buy an already worked over CZ from someone upgrading to a vudoo, or consider dropping the funds on a new vudoo?
    I feel like if I settled on a CZ, and even if it was as accurate as a vudoo, I might always find myself thinking how much better would a vudoo be?
    I have some time to make a decision/look for a used deal (I'm waiting on a DA Mask, I have other 22 cans but nothing worthy of a vudoo or CZ).
    If I do go vudoo what barrel contour and length should I be looking for? 18"? Use will be 50 yards on starlings out to 400+. Does a 20" vudoo barrel group any better than a 16"? I would prefer to keep it short if accuracy doesn't improve, the rifle will always be suppressed and run subsonic match ammo.
    Sorry for all the questions, I'm the new guy.

    Think of it like picking a wife. Cheaper to get the one you want to keep the first time!
     

    XP1K

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    Set up in the fron yard shooting 300 yards
    SWFA 20x in the pic, it wears a 6-24 viper pst now.
    20190824_191902.jpgIf you got the money to burn go vudoo and don't look back. Mine is by far the most popular gun I have. I was looking at the CZ's after getting rid of my savage, then the T1X came out but my dealer couldn't get one. I waited and waited then found vudoo. Placed my order and waited some more. Didn't take them long though.

    Best shot to date is a first round hit at 417 yards on 12x20 steel using the hornady 4dof and sk pistol match. Longest kill is 207 yards on a crow with cci subsonic.

    Rifle is a ravage renegade with a 20" kukri contour. Comes in right at 13lbs.
     

    Moose

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    Get the Vudoo If you got the cash and the best glass you can afford.And don't forget the good ammo.Love my Vudoo.
     
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    Moose

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    Set up in the fron yard shooting 300 yards
    SWFA 20x in the pic, it wears a 6-24 viper pst now.
    View attachment 7426886If you got the money to burn go vudoo and don't look back. Mine is by far the most popular gun I have. I was looking at the CZ's after getting rid of my savage, then the T1X came out but my dealer couldn't get one. I waited and waited then found vudoo. Placed my order and waited some more. Didn't take them long though.

    Best shot to date is a first round hit at 417 yards on 12x20 steel using the hornady 4dof and sk pistol match. Longest kill is 207 yards on a crow with cci subsonic.

    Rifle is a ravage renegade with a 20" kukri contour. Comes in right at 13lbs.
    Very nice setup and it is just so much fun hitting targets at 3 & 400 yards.
     

    learjet

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    ive done everything on the cheap, building LR savages, swappin barrels etc. Tried it on 22s said the heck with this. Found a used 22”MTR at a local gunshow, took me 2 months of sellin duplicate C&Rs, parts etc, but i was determined to have the Vudoo...best money i ever spent. Check out the 6x5 thread and you will be sold. They do pop up used on gunbroker now and then also

    good luck!
     

    Aussiedan

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    I found myself in the exact same situation.

    Long story short, i ordered a v-22 in an MPA hybrid chassis.
    I knew thats where I'd end up anyway so just cut out the middle man (and several thousand dollars) so to speak.

    Waiting for it to get to Australia then go through our gun buying process.

    Should have it by Christmas.
     

    Merlin O

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    The cheapest 457 for the action. A KRG chassis and, if needed, a replacement barrel for an accurate and attractive rifle.
    The FUNTIONAL differences are very small between a CZ and (insert your fancy rifle here) with the possibility that a rifle that cost three times as much might shoot a tenth better.
     

    usafa77

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    The FUNTIONAL differences are very small between a CZ and (insert your fancy rifle here)
    If by functional difference you mean makes a .22 cartridge of bang- yes they both do that. I've operated the bolts on a CZ ( it hit me in the face- timney trigger), my Vudoo, my RimX and I find the functional differences substantial.
     

    EddieE

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    Depends how anal you are. If your the type of person that has to have the best get the v22. I will admit, I shoot alot less with my v22 than I did with my CZ. I would spend hours tinkering with the CZ to get it to shoot a hair better (and mine shot REALLY well). At that time, I didn't realize how good my rifle shot. I just kept trying to make it better. I always would have a flier here and there that pissed me off. I would wonder what it was...lock time, ammo, mouse fart, etc.

    Got the v22 and I don't need to tinker. POI doesn't change 3 months after I put it away. Pick it up shoot tiny groups, get bored and go home. I don't like to tinker, I really hated having to play those games with my CZ. Now that I'm a little more experienced, I realize my CZ shot damn well and should have just left it alone. That said, my vudoo will never disappoint me. If it doesn't shoot well, its not the gun. Very different experience. There are some very accurate rifles out there, T1x, CZ 457, etc. Just have to decide how much you want to play to get them to shoot perfect. Or you may get lucky with one that shoots great out of the box.
     

    DownhillFromHere

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    Speaking from experience - Set the "functional" perspective - accuracy on target - aside and carefully consider the "psychological."

    You already applied the word "settle" for the CZ: "I feel like if I settled on a CZ, and even if it was as accurate as a vudoo, I might always find myself thinking how much better would a vudoo be?"

    If your head is already using the word "settle" before you spend a dime, you'll never be happy with the CZ.

    When I bought my CZ-455, I was excited, didn't even consider spending more. Did the YoDave kit, modded the firing pin. Shot some matches. Then I spent $ on putting it into an MDT chassis - again, excited, happy, yay, let's go shoot. Shot more matches. Then I wanted more, so Vudoo.

    You're already at "more." As long as your budget supports the purchase without strain on truly important things (like food, rent/mortgage, utilities, wife, kids), go with the Vudoo.
     

    GordonsGarage

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    Thank you all for weighing in, I think I'm going to spend the extra funds on a vudoo.
    I think deep down I'd always wish I'd gotten a vudoo if I went CZ, and I'm a "I can make it better" type of tinkerer, so I know if I did go CZ I'd constantly be tweaking or modifying something, and maybe eventually I'll have both just because.
    Now to be patient and find a used one or drop the $ on new.
    Thanks guys!
     

    DownhillFromHere

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    Now to be patient and find a used one or drop the $ on new.
    Thanks guys!
    I think you've made a sound, well-considered decision. So take the process a step or two further. Consider:
    • How much would you save on a "pre-owned" Vudoo?
    • How long would you wait for it?
    • Chances are a used one that appears will have the first-gen fire control design. Is the latest&greatest gen-2 fire control worth anything to you? Worth the few hundred bucks you might save buying used?
    • Would knowing that, if you order straight from Vudoo, you'll have 2-3 months to wait for your rifle make a difference (more time to feed the rifle fund)?
    • You can change your order after it's submitted right up to the point the rifle is assembled (well, Jill was very patient with the two changes I made in my order).
    Think long-term. When I finally ordered mine, I made myself step back and consider - realize - that I was ordering a very expensive item, and perhaps trying to save a couple hundred "settling" for less than what I really wanted after committing the better part of $3,000 for a complete rifle might be rather foolish.

    So, I wanted a specific color of MPA chassis; Jill said it might take longer to get it. Fine , I said. If this is my "final" .22, I'll wait for what I really want. In the end, they found the exact chassis I wanted faster than expected - e.g., Vudoo did more than just throw an order over the wall to MPA; somebody went looking. That's Vudoo.

    What I'm saying is, consider whether the uncertainty and potential "sacrifices" of your specific preferences in buying used are worth the cost savings.

    Good luck!
     
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    rookie7

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    Thank you all for weighing in, I think I'm going to spend the extra funds on a vudoo.
    I think deep down I'd always wish I'd gotten a vudoo if I went CZ, and I'm a "I can make it better" type of tinkerer, so I know if I did go CZ I'd constantly be tweaking or modifying something, and maybe eventually I'll have both just because.
    Now to be patient and find a used one or drop the $ on new.
    Thanks guys!
    Wise choice. Get what you want the first time around if you have the cash and even if you don't - as long as the bills are paid and the family has all its needs.

    From 2015 until 2020 I tried 4 different factory centerfire rifles for PRS comps and informal practice shooting. I spent money on all 4. I sold all 4 at a loss. When I began the journey I told my wife I really wanted a "custom" rifle, but rifle XYZ is nice and I can "get by".

    It has been said here on the hide probably 7 million times - "Buy once, cry once." Simple, but profoundly true.

    In early 2020 I finally finished piecing together my "custom rifle" - Bighorn Origin, Calvin Elite, Grayboe Renegade, PVA barrel and brake. Now I'm happy and satisfied, and at least I can answer for myself and not listen to someone else's opinion on the "worth it" part. To me, yes.

    Good luck, and enjoy.
     

    squishee

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    I have both. The cz is a good rifle Kind of my jack off all trades rifle.It does everything well but not great. My vudoo is the king and the cz knows it. Buy a vudoo now And a cz later.
     
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    Matt_3479

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    There’s a thread on another forum “things you wished you knew when you started”. Basically the buy once cry once is more common then anything.

    everyone’s been down that path, and it’s costed me more money then just doing it once in the first place. Multiple factory guns trying to quench that custom want, before moving into customs. Reloading scales out the ass until I moved to the A&D. hand trimmers on hand trimmers, case prep centres Before going to giraud trimmers.

    yes they are expensive but buying the cz first your always going to wonder what if.., or should I have... or is it really... get the vudoo and if later you want another then get the cz. But start with vudoo.

    ive swallowed this pill, just trying to decide if I want to try the ultimatum deuce, Zermatt rimx or vudoo.
     

    justin amateur

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    I'm surprised no one offerered the straight up comment.

    Being an old coot, I will...

    Never settle. Life is short, then you die.
    There's no accessing y'er bank account after y'er dead and gone.

    Make the decision....do ya' want to tinker?
    Or do you just want to spend y'er time and money finding decent ammo?
    If it's a tinkering hobby y'er after, get the CZ.
    Otherwise, spend the money on the high end toy.

    I'm into tinkering.
    Much more entertaining than watching bullets going through the same hole, eh? ;)
     

    flatland1

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    I started out by building myself a precision repeater on a Stiller 2500XR action after seeing an ad for 'the ultimate 22RF trainer' on EuroOptic website. They were advertising a limited run batch of rifles using the Stiller action, Bartlein bbls, Manners stock, etc. Really got the juices flowing...right up until I read the price, which if I recall was over $4000 - gulp! I'd been doing custom rifle builds & barreling for customers for several years by that time, so finally decided to call Jerry Stiller - he had 2500XR actions in stock, so after a $1295 ding on my CC, I had one coming. I already had a Krieger 22RF sendero blank in hand, and a PTG EPS reamer, and was even able to find an extra stock that Manners had done for the EO run of rifles. It all went together pretty well, and wound up shooting about as good as I'd expected. But no sooner had I gotten it up & running when I read about Mike Bush releasing drawings for CNC programmers to perform conversions on Rem 40X actions to allow them to run his V-22 magazines. I had two CMP Remingtons sitting in the closet that weren't getting any use - a light bbl'd original 40X, and a 40XB with a hvy bbl. The 40X was beat to crap, so I sent the action to Jonathan Elrod for the conversion, and did a Benchmark 3-groove bbl for it when I got it back from jelrod. I was so happy with how well it fed & ejected, and how quick mag changes were compared to trying to hit the Stiller's mag chute (which was out of site). So I sold the Stiller and used the funds to send the 40XB off to jelrod. This one got a Lilja titebore bbl, and I had two excellent 22RF repeaters....but it was just about finished when Mike Bush announced the availability of his V-22 action. I wound up selling the 1st 40X conversion and buying an action from VGW, which has been a terrific rifle - especially after doing the VGW recommended mods to the extractor/pusher to make it more reliable.

    I wound up with a couple more V-22s, but when CZ started their ad campaign to announce their new 457 models, I took one look at the appearance of the 457 American and wanted one - badly. The one I got has a nice Turkish walnut stock with some attractive grain/figure - nothing fancy, just very attractive. I was immediately taken with how well it cycled - fairly smooth, with 100% reliability - but it flat wouldn't shoot worth a hoot. I adjusted the trigger down to a safe 1.2lbs, put a decent scope on it with a BScar 25 MOA rail, re-cut a pretty rough-looking crown at the muzzle to a nice 11* crown...but after shooting all the custom-bbl'd repeaters I'd built in the years leading up to the purchase of the 457, there was no way I was going to settle for the OEM sporter bbl's poor to mediocre groups. So I ordered in a Shilen ratchet rifled select match blank in their #5 contour, parted off the 1.20" dia shank, and wound up with a 24" bbl that's about 1/2lb heavier than the OEM bbl. I cut a snug-fitting tenon, chambered it with the same EPS reamer I've used on the other custom bbls, cut extractor grooves, and glued it into the 457 action. Not going to claim it shoots as good as the V-22 I put a Krieger #4 sporter bbl on, but it's close...an oh so much better than that POS factory bbl was. I really like the 457 actions, with their 60* bolt lift, side bolt release, and fully adjustable trigger - but having bought a MTR & VPT, it's pretty obvious that their factory barrels are a crap-shoot - you might get a good one, or you might get one that's not so hot. My MTR shoots pretty decent, but the VPT in the Manners PRS1 stock didn't, and wound up getting another Shilen glued in. I enjoy carrying & shooting the CZs very much - am always looking for an excuse to get the American out and go plinking with it. But if I weren't equipped to do my own bbl work, I might not have kept that rifle, nor ever made the purchase of the other two 457s.
     

    spartan67

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    Gordon, are your fundamentals, realistically, solid enough where you are going to be able to tell the difference between the 2?
    No sense getting a Cadillac of rimfire , if you cant drive it properly.
     

    Rimfireshooter99

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    Gordon, as always, it depends on what you're looking to do with the rifle. If you like target shooting, you could consider an Anschutz 64 action. I have a 1903 target rifle, in a benchrest stock, and it shoots very well for the postal matches that I shoot with it. Costs around $2000 complete, depending on what model and accessories you may want. Check out Anschutz North America for models and pricing.

    Just another thought for your consideration....
     

    GordonsGarage

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    Alright everyone, I bit the bullet and ordered my new vudoo today! An 18" Kukri (I'm not trying to clone my center fire) in the mpa chassis, burnt bronze of course.
    They said they'd hopefully get it to me by Christmas.
    I've already collected a razor (you should see it mounted on my savage mkii for now!) and an accutac for it, started picking up a box or two of all the big name precision ammos to test, now if that DA mask would hurry up so it won't be wearing a sub par can for a while.
    Thanks to all who pushed me over the edge, I knew it's what I wanted but the finance side of me was saying well maybe this one (CZ) will work at 1/3 the money.
    Spartan67, I'm not claiming to be David Tubb, but I'd say I'm well past your average guy lobbing rounds down range. Besides, do you have to be Lewis Hamilton to appreciate the difference between a Chevrolet and a Mercedes? Now I'll just know it's my fault when all the holes don't touch.

    I'll be sure to post a pic when it comes in.
    Thanks guys!
     

    littlepod

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    Alright everyone, I bit the bullet and ordered my new vudoo today! An 18" Kukri (I'm not trying to clone my center fire) in the mpa chassis, burnt bronze of course.
    They said they'd hopefully get it to me by Christmas.
    I've already collected a razor (you should see it mounted on my savage mkii for now!) and an accutac for it, started picking up a box or two of all the big name precision ammos to test, now if that DA mask would hurry up so it won't be wearing a sub par can for a while.
    Thanks to all who pushed me over the edge, I knew it's what I wanted but the finance side of me was saying well maybe this one (CZ) will work at 1/3 the money.
    Spartan67, I'm not claiming to be David Tubb, but I'd say I'm well past your average guy lobbing rounds down range. Besides, do you have to be Lewis Hamilton to appreciate the difference between a Chevrolet and a Mercedes? Now I'll just know it's my fault when all the holes don't touch.

    I'll be sure to post a pic when it comes in.
    Thanks guys!
    Make sure you start thinking about SK Standard Plus or Lapua Center-X. Don't try to run CCI SV in the rifle.
     
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    GordonsGarage

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    So far I've collected a box or two each of tenex, center x, midas+, sk long range, eley match, eley team, eley edge, eley club, and gold medal match.
    So many of the match type ammos are sold out right now like everything else, but I've got till christmas to get a good variety built up.
     

    littlepod

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    So far I've collected a box or two each of tenex, center x, midas+, sk long range, eley match, eley team, eley edge, eley club, and gold medal match.
    So many of the match type ammos are sold out right now like everything else, but I've got till christmas to get a good variety built up.
    The chamber was cut for SK/Lapua ammo, so it will feed and run so much better using that ammo brand.
     

    Dthomas3523

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    Unless you’re shooting BR or F class .22, just order a case of sk standard plus and be done.

    It will shoot well enough to win any prs style .22 match (as long as your MD runs appropriately sized targets for .22 . I’ve owned 5 vudoos and they have all shot it well enough that it’s not the ammo causing you to lose.
     

    rickdavis81

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    I was in the same boat. Ended up installing a Lilja barrel and krg bravo on my cz455. Shoots and feels awesome but still regret not buying a vudoo with an Mpa to match my Tikka ctr.
     
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    salks

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    If you live anywhere close to a lapua test center do it. I don't have one but someone was kind enough to let me shoot theirs. I was amazed awesome .22. I'm working on the funds now. The lot matched ammo from lapua is the real deal like running handloads in your .22.
     

    1813Benny

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    The answer is found as a key word in the OP's subject line...."settle". Life is short, get what you want and enjoy it to the fullest extent.
     
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    M145O

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    My Vudoo is on the way.... delivery tomorrow.... I have a custom CZ455 that shoots regular groups less than .20 5 shots at 50 yards (best .101).... but, have wanted a vudoo since they came out.... the wife said you only live once.... buy the rifle! And, she is right..... Although the CZ wouldn't be settling.... in your mind you've already decided..... buy the rifle!!!!
     

    Ba19500

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    My 452 American has been used for mostly extra long range shooting for quite a few years. It gets shot the most. For shooting steel it is fun. For live game, about 100 yards could be max. A high wind no.
    My cousin had his 455 varmint customized for a lot less than a vudoo and it should be competitive wi
     

    Muriner

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    I second that CZ won't be settling. Get both (this is what I will do once my bank account recovers from other recent purchases :). I see them as different rifles for different purposes. I really like the old world look of my 457 Lux (even that plastic mag doesn't bother me). Beautiful Turkish walnut, very light rifle with iron sights that handles well and I can take for a leisurely stroll in the woods. And the one I can use to introduce my children to firearms. Is it going to be accurate as the V-22? Of course not, but it's plenty accurate for a lot of folks and I view it as an excellent trainer rifle.
     

    Merlin O

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    I guess I am the odd man out here. I have driven cars that cost 350K and could drive a Mercedes but my Dodge is fine and is a great ride. If you need to have the kool kid toys to prove something spend all your money on them and be proud. Might consider a little reverse snobbery and whip some ass with skill and a decent gun. You can't buy competence in shooting. If you are a 1%er it will come onto play. A 5K gun will help your ego but your shooting will benefit more with a 1K gun and 4 thousand dollars of ammo downrange.
     

    rookie7

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    I guess I am the odd man out here. I have driven cars that cost 350K and could drive a Mercedes but my Dodge is fine and is a great ride. If you need to have the kool kid toys to prove something spend all your money on them and be proud. Might consider a little reverse snobbery and whip some ass with skill and a decent gun. You can't buy competence in shooting. If you are a 1%er it will come onto play. A 5K gun will help your ego but your shooting will benefit more with a 1K gun and 4 thousand dollars of ammo downrange.
    @Merlin O you're not wrong in your statement, but you're not right either. (your 3rd from last sentence is absolutely right)

    Just because a person wants and buys an expensive rifle like a Vudoo doesn't mean they have something to prove and is a snob trying to boost their ego.

    Maybe they like it best and that's what they want - and can easily afford it.

    Or maybe they are the guy/gal that saves for months or years to be able to buy what they really want.

    I qualify as the last sentence guy. I would have to wait and save. I'm the Tikka, CZ, and soon to be Bergara guy.

    I can't afford a Mercedes, but even if I could I would still buy and drive a Toyota Tacoma like I already have.

    When I see folks with high end gear I don't automatically see ego and see "keeping up with the Jones'". I see nice gear.
     

    Aussiedan

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    Sep 17, 2020
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    I guess I am the odd man out here. I have driven cars that cost 350K and could drive a Mercedes but my Dodge is fine and is a great ride. If you need to have the kool kid toys to prove something spend all your money on them and be proud. Might consider a little reverse snobbery and whip some ass with skill and a decent gun. You can't buy competence in shooting. If you are a 1%er it will come onto play. A 5K gun will help your ego but your shooting will benefit more with a 1K gun and 4 thousand dollars of ammo downrange.

    Some people like certain things (often more expensive) simply because they appreciate the build quality or the craftsmanship that goes into its design and production.

    To instantly chalk it up to ego is absurd.

    Plus, who the hell wants to have exactly the same things as everyone else?
    Or wants to only have the option of something that will meet the bare minimum requirements for its purpose.

    Thats some communist type shit.

    Having said that, you are correct in saying that most shooters would benefit from a cheaper gun and a ton of ammo as compared to an expensive gun and stuff all experience
     

    Merlin O

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    Sep 2, 2006
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    Friendswood TX
    I submit that you know not what of you speak Aussieboy.... :) (y) For someone who lives in a antigun socialist county as you do to tell a Texan with 60 firearms how to choose a gun....? (Best Steve Martin Voice) I laugh at your opinion....
     

    littlepod

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  • Oct 16, 2012
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    I guess I am the odd man out here. I have driven cars that cost 350K and could drive a Mercedes but my Dodge is fine and is a great ride. If you need to have the kool kid toys to prove something spend all your money on them and be proud. Might consider a little reverse snobbery and whip some ass with skill and a decent gun. You can't buy competence in shooting. If you are a 1%er it will come onto play. A 5K gun will help your ego but your shooting will benefit more with a 1K gun and 4 thousand dollars of ammo downrange.
    I've been thinking about this post for a while and just generic thoughts about life... In terms of absolute dollars, people pay for their new car, car payments, mortgage payments, medical bills, multiple times over more expensive than some of the what we call premium dollar rifles. A full Vudoo setup would run about $3000. That's a lot when comparing to a $500 CZ, but in absolute dollars, it's only $3000. And people will tell me how expensive that is, then they went and added the Nav System option to their new car and that cost $3000 just for that Nav Package.

    But I guess it really comes down to what you value / gives you the most happiness. I started out with a 10/22, then a Tikka T1X, and then a Vudoo, and now I want another Vudoo. I love rimfire, I shoot it every week and do all the local comps. I get excitement out of it, and yeh it's expensive.

    Now at the same time I refuse to buy wine that costs more than $15 because I don't see the point...
    I refuse to eat at restaurants that cost more than $40 because I don't see the point...

    I know many people who spend 10x more than I do on wine and food and absolutely love it and find it worthwhile.

    So to each their own. Do what makes you happy.
     
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    Aussiedan

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    Sep 17, 2020
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    I submit that you know not what of you speak Aussieboy.... :) (y) For someone who lives in a antigun socialist county as you do to tell a Texan with 60 firearms how to choose a gun....? (Best Steve Martin Voice) I laugh at your opinion....
    Ah yes, the opinions of the few must clearly represent the opinions of the masses.......

    Your arrogance is astounding.

    As an aside, your opinions of my country have no relevance and add zero value to the conversation.

    Funnily enough, I actually agreed with the key component of your opinion, yet you choose to attempt a "personal" attack 🤣🤣
     
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