This is how you do it, home invaders

#10
I think he did ok. Handguns aren't that effective at killing once you get behind 15-20 yards. Shot placement on movers under stress. Shit, I bet he did better than most sworn officers would have.

This is assuming the homeowner used a handgun. If they had a shotgun or semi-auto, I'd still give them a B- to maybe a B+, as I don't know the details. Layout, etc.

Dudes picked the wrong house or he knew they were coming...
 
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#17
Usually stories lacking detail like this... involve parties that are known to each other. I'm inclined to believe this was not a random home invasion. Also... lots of casings OUTSIDE the home. Hmmmm..... There's more to this story.

I'd LIKE it to be a true case of self-defense against an unknown criminal party. But, I have doubts.
 
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#21
Racer88 said:
Usually stories lacking detail like this... involve parties that are known to each other. I'm inclined to believe this was not a random home invasion. Also... lots of casings OUTSIDE the home. Hmmmm..... There's more to this story.

I'd LIKE it to be a true case of self-defense against an unknown criminal party. But, I have doubts.
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I feel that same speculation towards this article, seems coincidentally scant of any real details.

Honestly, I know it's not noble or anything, but I'd shoot someone dead right in the back from my porch for even trying to run away. As long as they were still on my property for the initial or sustained intention of harming or robbing me, that is. You don't get to pull a string and decide you want to get off that bus, sorry. When someone runs up in your home, you can't afford to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're here to fix the cable at 2:30AM. You bite off as much as you can and chew like all hell, when it comes to my home I have one level of violence and a thousand levels of hospitality. I won't be reaching for the hospitality in the slightest.

That said, the story seems like there is a lot more to it than what's on the page. Five burglars is uncommon as well, usually it's three maximum. Maybe it's hard to find pieces of shit that can clump together tightly enough to cooperate at all, a fortunate side effect of the common criminal— but at any rate, it's unusual.
 
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#22
Racer88 said:
Usually stories lacking detail like this... involve parties that are known to each other. I'm inclined to believe this was not a random home invasion. Also... lots of casings OUTSIDE the home. Hmmmm..... There's more to this story.

I'd LIKE it to be a true case of self-defense against an unknown criminal party. But, I have doubts.
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Don't look a gift horse in the mouth .
 
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#23
Alphatreedog said:
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth .
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Yup. Even if the homeowner is a shitbag, he just removed four more shitbags so the rest of us won't have to deal with them.

THAT should be "new math".

(Edit: on an unrelated topic, it took 17 years but this post just put me over 1000 :) )
 
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#26
If you are in a commie state you would feel that way, you need extenuating reasons ti defend yourself, in most of free America you simply need to feel in fear of your life or threatened like this family seems to have been. Cursory question by cops, nothing suspicious , call the meat wagon , nominate citizen for the standard neighborhood watch gold star and hose down the drive for the homeowner, meet the boys back Shipleys for a dozen.

They all could have been criminals just sitting there and got into an argument when someone pulls out gun, then bang bang bang bang bang, Homeowner wins, no matter if criminal or not, criminals have rights too.

Racer88 said:
Usually stories lacking detail like this... involve parties that are known to each other. I'm inclined to believe this was not a random home invasion. Also... lots of casings OUTSIDE the home. Hmmmm..... There's more to this story.

I'd LIKE it to be a true case of self-defense against an unknown criminal party. But, I have doubts.
Click to expand...
 
#29
ArmyJerry said:
If you are in a commie state you would feel that way, you need extenuating reasons ti defend yourself, in most of free America you simply need to feel in fear of your life or threatened like this family seems to have been. Cursory question by cops, nothing suspicious , call the meat wagon , nominate citizen for the standard neighborhood watch gold star and hose down the drive for the homeowner, meet teh boys back Shipleys for a dozen.
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Ha! Yeah... I live in one of the most gun-rights-friendly states in the country. So, no.... I don't "feel that way" because of where I live. I get the feeling this was a gang rivalry or drug deal "gone bad" situation, based on many many years of studying these cases. I am very well-versed on the laws of self-defense.

Lots of shell casings OUTSIDE the house. It was a "shoot-out." FIVE guys "invaded" an occupied house? And, the shooting continued outside the home, on the street?

There's more to the story, I suspect.

Yes... it's POSSIBLE that this is a true random home invasion with an innocent victim. It's possible. But, I wouldn't put money on it. I'm going to try to follow this case to see if more details emerge that will distinguish it as a true self-defense scenario. I HOPE that's the case. But, I've got a nagging feeling the "invaders" were KNOWN to the victim. They knew each other.... but, they weren't "friends," eh?
 
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#31
could be, bottom line 4 out of 5 bad guys dead, one homeowner not dead. those are the facts and in Texas thats a good day for the community.

Racer88 said:
Ha! Yeah... I live in one of the most gun-rights-friendly states in the country. So, no.... I don't "feel that way" because of where I live. I get the feeling this was a gang rivalry or drug deal "gone bad" situation, based on many many years of studying these cases. I am very well-versed on the laws of self-defense.

Lots of shell casings OUTSIDE the house. It was a "shoot-out." FIVE guys "invaded" an occupied house? And, the shooting continued outside the home, on the street?

There's more to the story, I suspect.

Yes... it's POSSIBLE that this is a true random home invasion with an innocent victim. It's possible. But, I wouldn't put money on it. I'm going to try to follow this case to see if more details emerge that will distinguish it as a true self-defense scenario. I HOPE that's the case. But, I've got a nagging feeling the "invaders" were KNOWN to the victim. They knew each other.... but, they weren't "friends," eh?
Click to expand...
 
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#34
ArmyJerry said:
They all could have been criminals just sitting there and got into an argument when someone pulls out gun, then bang bang bang bang bang, Homeowner wins, no matter if criminal or not, criminals have rights too.
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Actually... not true. In most states, if the "victim" claiming self-defense was engaged in an unlawful activity at the time of the use of lethal force... it doesn't fly.

The presumption of reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm does not apply if: (a) the person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in the home or vehicle, or (b) the person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used, or (c) the person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the home or vehicle to further an unlawful activity,
 
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#37
sitting in your house with other criminals is not unlawful.

QUOTE="Racer88, post: 7476462, member: 129421"]Actually... not true. In most states, if the "victim" claiming self-defense was engaged in an unlawful activity at the time of the use of lethal force... it doesn't fly.

The presumption of reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm does not apply if: (a) the person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in the home or vehicle, or (b) the person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used, or (c) the person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the home or vehicle to further an unlawful activity, [/QUOTE]
 
#39
From Texas law... just looked it up:

(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used
 
#41
ArmyJerry said:
they been updating every hour today on the radio here, no disclaimer by the news or the police like "still under investigation" or anything like that. I am inclined to think this is a good shoot under Texas law.
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I hope so. If it is.... a great example to support our cause (in many ways / on many levels).
 
#42
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#43
Too little info at this point to bother splitting dickhairs over the legal grooming standards I think. AJ has a good point that everyone is entitled to defend themselves given they believe they are in severe danger, but I don't think that removes them from scrutiny as to what the reality of the situation is. I don't think anyone genuinely thinks that death is a reasonable penalty for nonviolent and truly only self-destructive criminals like most dopers are, but we probably all agree that if you have five people you can't identify busting in your door you're going to kill them all and clear the rest of the house to make sure your family is safe regardless and should be justified within the law for doing so.

It all depends on the details, of which we have too few to really tell for sure.
 
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#45
I say if with a handgun and they were shooting back, 3/5 gets an A-. 4/5 is an A+.

I know a lot of guys here are darn good with a gun. I also know a lot of you have been shot at. Only a few where it was 1 vs 5.

Im calling BS @ArmyJerry. The number of guys on here who could have hit them all, with them moving, diving, running away from where ever the home owner was shooting from, is a pretty small number. close to zero........

Im not debating law or mourning some gang bangers dropping. At least they didn't hit any little kids or crap like that. Then I would be pissed.
 
#47
we dont give out blue ribbons in Texas (Only Austin and Dallas which are considered California nowadays) and we dont grade on a curve. He left a witness eh I mean he missed a badguy, we think, the guy could have crawled into a hole and is laying there dead..

powdahound76 said:
I say if with a handgun and they were shooting back, 3/5 gets an A-. 4/5 is an A+.

I know a lot of guys here are darn good with a gun. I also know a lot of you have been shot at. Only a few where it was 1 vs 5.

Im calling BS @ArmyJerry. The number of guys on here who could have hit them all, with them moving, diving, running away from where ever the home owner was shooting from, is a pretty small number. close to zero........

Im not debating law or mourning some gang bangers dropping. At least they didn't hit any little kids or crap like that. Then I would be pissed.
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#50
Naw. Born and bred Texans. We visit. They live in a nice area away from the nut jobs, dad was a small (not so small) business owner before selling and retiring. Her folks are quite pleased with my overly conservative redneck behind.

I live in Denver, am I a commie too? City council is pushing for "safe injection sites" for junkies........ Also called "cock blocking Darwin"

Not all who live behind enemy lines are sympathizers Jerry. Some of us are stuck for reasons (mine is shared custody, could never leave and live away from my baby, love her too much to take her from her mom). Momma is stuck here by the same. Otherwise we would leave. TX probably, maybe Amarillo or Lubbock.
 
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