Advanced Marksmanship Those unexplained flyers ???

[cornhusker]

What causes it to happen ? Today I was going for a 10 shot string at 250 yards..Very light
wind..I had 9 right in there and then it happened.The 10th went wild to the right,about 1 1/2
inch out..I was taking my time and trying to maintain the same hold..Why,why did it happen ?
I am sure i'm not the only one it happens to..WHY ? LOL

 

[BLDTYLRY]

What ammo were you using? Off-the-shelf or Handloads?

 

[cornhusker]

What ammo were you using? Off-the-shelf or Handloads?

handloads of course..

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Well, did you call the shot at 3, or right-in-there? Assuming the rifle is not broken and ammunition is not defective, if you called it at 3 it means you moved the rifle. A shot called right-in-there suggests sight adjustment was not set properly for wind and weather conditions. It really does not matter what shot was the so called flyer, just accept the fact that the bullet will always go in the direction the barrel is pointed and focus on what you need to do to achieve the desired result, like consistent sight alignment and smooth trigger control supported by a solid position. BTW, a 3 to 5 mph wind change could easily move your bullet as you described it.

 

[hooyah]

I hate it when this happens too , I also hate the fact that it is my fault ... like previously stated the bullet goes where the rifle is pointed.

JW

 

[cornhusker]

all replies are appreciated..it gives something to think about..and consider what did happen....I think I need
more trigger time as well...

 

[2ndPanzer]

Where did the rifle recoil to? If everything else looked right felt right, that's a teller... When you break a shot you relax into your NPA subconsciously, the recoil break will tell if you were muscling it over to keep it lined up. Your NPA degrades every shot just a little... Eventually it adds up enough to really matter, but your pushing the rifle back to center away from your shifted NPA, and then the fliers happen.

 

[cornhusker]

Well, did you call the shot at 3, or right-in-there? Assuming the rifle is not broken and ammunition is not defective, if you called it at 3 it means you moved the rifle. A shot called right-in-there suggests sight adjustment was not set properly for wind and weather conditions. It really does not matter what shot was the so called flyer, just accept the fact that the bullet will always go in the direction the barrel is pointed and focus on what you need to do to achieve the desired result, like consistent sight alignment and smooth trigger control supported by a solid position. BTW, a 3 to 5 mph wind change could easily move your bullet as you described it.

I called that shot to be dead center with the other 9 shots.....As they say-maybe the bullet witch had something to do with it...

 

[40xs]

It's a phenomenon that occurs to shooters that have completed a perfect string up to the last shot and they want it so bad that they experience a feeling of anticipation and hope for the last perfect shot that their brain freezes and prevents them from doing the necessary steps of marksmanship. I have to fight against this myself. For lack of a better term lets call it "choking"! It takes practice and conditioning.

 

[Rattler56]

It's a phenomenon that occurs to shooters that have completed a perfect string up to the last shot and they want it so bad that they experience a feeling of anticipation and hope for the last perfect shot that their brain freezes and prevents them from doing the necessary steps of marksmanship. I have to fight against this myself. For lack of a better term lets call it "choking"! It takes practice and conditioning.

Agree fully with 40sx, choking just happens.and its a motivator for me not to.

 

[cornhusker]

choking ? Sounds more like operator head space to me.lol I need more trigger time...No doubt...

 

[todd]

...just accept the fact that the bullet will always go in the direction the barrel is pointed...

Dang those pesky facts! I really dislike it when the truth of the matter is that I wasn't doing my job and pointing the barrel at where I thought the cross hairs were, when the projectile exited beyond my control on it's merry way!

;-)

Way to break it down to the fundamental painful truth, Sterling. LOL

 

[Sniper Uncle]

While the aforementioned reasons are the cause of most of my "flyers," I would ask a question.

Another member here from Scotland told me of his journey to end flyers, and one thing he found helped a lot was the purchase of a Hornady Concentricity Gauge. This tool allows the user to correct run-out, and he says that using it to correct anything more than .002" run-out, he saw the really "un-explainable" flyers fade into extinction.

I would think that since the OP admits the need for more trigger time, the above responses probably identify the main reason for his issue, as I am sure it identifies the source of most of my flyers. But, it may not hurt to also check and correct the run-out too....

 

[Sterling Shooter]

While the aforementioned reasons are the cause of most of my "flyers," I would ask a question.

Another member here from Scotland told me of his journey to end flyers, and one thing he found helped a lot was the purchase of a Hornady Concentricity Gauge. This tool allows the user to correct run-out, and he says that using it to correct anything more than .002" run-out, he saw the really "un-explainable" flyers fade into extinction.

I would think that since the OP admits the need for more trigger time, the above responses probably identify the main reason for his issue, as I am sure it identifies the source of most of my flyers. But, it may not hurt to also check and correct the run-out too....

You're right, defective ammunition will easily produce an unexpected result. I've had bullets that never made it to the target, coming apart somewhere at mid range. Imagine shooting in an LR competition and loosing 10 points due to a bullet failure, effectively thwarting a win. It happens; but, today, it is rare, since I now inspect my hand loads more closely. At any rate, I earlier stated that the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed because unless the ammunition is indeed defective or the rifle is broken it is the only thing we know for sure; and, although we may know nothing more, we can achieve the result desired by simply focusing on the fundamentals.

 

[p_pops]

So, here's a slightly related question....

How likely are flyers with factory ammo? Short of match grade were I'd expect it to not occur at all ever. Are there significant differences between brands or calibers?

While I nearly always attribute the flyers I get to poor marksmanship on my part I've noticed I've only had them with cheap or foreign made .22LR and .223 ammo.

 

[Pinecone]

From the shooter side, what were you thinking when you fired the last shot?

Were you thinking, don't screw this up? Or were you thinking, this will be perfect like the 9 before it?

There are a number of books on the mental side of sports. Some are on shooting, but they all work on the choking factor.

 

[Bill Larson]

the nut behind the bolt

 

[Greg Langelius *]

OK, I know you, John, and I realize you take these matters seriously, and have access to good advice at the club.

First and more likely, parallax. If the parallax isn't eliminated before the string, any unconscious shifts of the cheek weld will cause dispersion, usually without any 'real' reason for it.

Next, also likely, nine rounds into the string, that chamber has had a significant temperature increase. After 9 great shots, there is usually a tendency to hunker down and make that last shot perfect. This takes additional time, and combined with the chamber heating, turns the energy potential of that last load into something a bit more peppy than the previous 9.

Greg

 

[40xs]

Exactly! 30 seconds in a hot chamber can raise your impact at 1000yds. about an moa.

 

[Xshot]

OK, I know you, John, and I realize you take these matters seriously, and have access to good advice at the club.

First and more likely, parallax. If the parallax isn't eliminated before the string, any unconscious shifts of the cheek weld will cause dispersion, usually without any 'real' reason for it.

Next, also likely, nine rounds into the string, that chamber has had a significant temperature increase. After 9 great shots, there is usually a tendency to hunker down and make that last shot perfect. This takes additional time, and combined with the chamber heating, turns the energy potential of that last load into something a bit more peppy than the previous 9.

Greg

Greg has hit on a topic, cause, that makes complete sense. I've been testing/using CFE-223 in a new build (7mm-08 AI) for about 4 months. One thing I noticed with CFE-223 is that my velocities began to significantly increase after 4/5 shots - less than 90 seconds between shots. The increase would ramp up just slightly after the 3rd shot, but up to 20 FPS after the 4/5th shot. If I allow the barrel to cool, it's not nearly as apparent. I normally shoot Varget and never really experienced such an extreme spread in velocities, but CFE-223 woke me up to the role a hot chamber plays into precise accuracy.

FWIW - I really like CFE-223 because it delivers great accuracy, superior velocities and meters fantastically. But I can see where blaster's could find this powder hard to handle.

 

[cornhusker]

It all boils down to my cheek pressure...I finally realized this after going back to the range and doing some
more of the method of which I have been holding the rifle..So after feeling like I have the problem solved
I returned once again..This time my goal was to fire 20 rounds from the 6BR at the same bullseye and distance..

Having 3 other shooters there,I ask if I could fire all 20 without having to stop for them to go check their
targets..They were kind enought to let me do this...I talked myself through all 20 shots and had 19 in the bullseye..
My 5th shot was out a tad to the left,which I know the wind witch grabbed....So I think I have found the
cause of my flyers...Abit of a warm up and I will test this once again...

I appreciate all your replies and suggestions.....Be safe and aim small...John