Tight bore vs. regular bore

flyboy

Gunny Sergeant
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Jul 31, 2008
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I have a very vaige understanding of how this works each way, but with the prospect of rebarreling the 308 in the future, and wanting to keep it as short as possible, what are the advantages of each.

Also anyone with numbers outta tight bore 308's 20" or less, that would be appriciated.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can also look to 3 groove barrels for the benefits of a tightbore, but without the negatives. </div></div>

My 24" Krieger barrel chambered in 260 Remington runs slower than my 22" Lilja 3-groove.

I infer the Lilja 3-groove is a tighter bore == more pressure.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

Do you know this, or are you speculating?

What are the bore spec's on your lilja?

My lawton 3 groove is faster than all my other 308's with similar barrel length... but unfortunately I do not recall the exact bore on it... but I know its not a "tight bore." ... and also unfortunately I don't have a "tight bore" 308 to compare it to.

Later has an identical barrel from lawton, so maybe he knows what the bore is. You can read Later's results in the link below.
http://longrangeresearchcenter.com/gpage13.html
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you know this, or are you speculating? </div></div>

Absolutely all just speculation.

The 24" Krieger is a 1:9" twist -vs- 1:8" twist on the 22" Lilja 3-groove.

Each was also chambered with two completely different reamers.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

Well the idea behind the 3 groove tubes was that you didnt need a tight bore because you were reducing the bearing surface, thereby reducing drag. Less bearing surface also would create less heat.

You wouldn't need to go for a tighter bore at that point. Now I would imagine you could combine the 3 groove with tight bore... but I don't know why you'd want to.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I can chime in here.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

Guys, There are a lot of variables and just taking what you see form one or two or even three barrels is not conclusive data.

From what I see.

There is no real difference in barrel life between a tight bore or standard bore.

You should see a little more velocity with a tighter bore than a standard bore with the same load. But this is not a guarantee because of other variables.

What chamber reamer was used with what dimensions.

Talking about bore size is vague. When talking bore size you are really talking about 3 different areas. The bore itself (tops of the lands), groove size and groove width.

Also number of grooves has no real bearing on barrel life or velocity etc....I just haven't seen it. I've shot 2 groove, 3, 4, 5, 5R and 6 groove in calibers ranging up to .338.

A chamber with different throat dimensions etc....can make a difference also.

You could buy at one time 20 barrels from one barrel maker and out of those 20 two or three of them could run a little faster or slower than the rest and they could've been made as identical as possible from one to the next. A difference of even a 100fps I say is just the individuality of the barrel.

To get good data you would have to take say 10 barrels of a nearly identical bore sizes and the same number of grooves ( and the same groove width) and take another 10 barrels with the same number of grooves and groove width and make those 10 with a looser or tighter bore dimensions and run a test in controlled conditions and take the average of each 10 to see what the difference is. Now take 10 more with a different groove size etc....

The last two barrels I compared one was a 4 groove and one was a 5R. Both in 6mm Rem. chamber (with a slightly shorter throat than standard but the case dimensions where standard). Bore sizes where both tight at .236 and the groove size was .243. One barrel on average was 30fps slower than the other one. Again that small of a difference is not really conducive to say anything.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

I have an 18.5" .299 bore Bartlein 5R in .308. It shoots Lapua HPS factory at 2630fps at 65 degrees, 168 Remington SMK Factory at 2541fps in any weather, and my 155 Scenar load at 2775fps at 75 degrees (45.9 RE15/Lapua brass). I am not getting a noticeable increase in velocitites or pressures over standard bore size, but the tight bore does shoot the Scenars well.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

I am running a tight bore 3 grove Kreiger that spits Con-Bon 155s at 2850 fps. This is at 50 degrees ambient temp.

I am pretty happy with that from a 20" barrel.

I really want someone to start producing a tight bore 3 grove 6.5 blank. I am interested to see if I can get the same gains in the 6.5 calibers. If anyone wants to make one, I will take two...right now.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

I have 5 260s that I had built. One of these is a Broughton barrel tight bore. It does shoot slower than the others by 100 fps. The loads will show signs of pressure faster than a standard bore. At least this has been my experience for these 5 260s.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

Back when we where at Krieger Tracy made two tight bore 3 groove palma barrels in .308 (.298x.3065 bore and groove) for one of the top palma shooters in the country. The data I got back was accuracy was excellent but they we're a flat 100-150fps. slower than the 4 groove barrels he normally used. Why? Wider lands? Not really sure.

Again looking at sample here or there of one or two pieces isn't really conclusive.

Last year we made some 3 groove 6mm barrels for one of the top short range bench shooter (6PPC) here. Accuracy was great and he saw no velocity difference faster or slower than the 4 groove barrels we've made him.

I've got a conventional 5 groove barrel on my bench gun and am getting basically the same velocities as other bench shooters with 4 groove barrels.

I go back to what I said earlier. A difference of say 100fps is the individuality of the barrel.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If thinks like these are the reality, Whats the actual purpose for the tight bore or what was it intentioned for? </div></div>

It originally came about back I believe during the 70's. I cannot remember the barrels makers name (no longer living) made a tight bore .30cal. barrel either on his own or at the request of a palma shooter not really sure. Anyways it seems like they came about because if you made the U.S. Palma team and went to represent the U.S. if the host country lets say it's South Africa they (SA) supplied the ammo. Some or most countries did not allow you to bring your own ammo. They where still supplying 7.62Nato ball ammo for the .308 palma guns. Some of this ammo the bullets where running as small as .3065 in diameter.

That is the best I can tell you.

I do know that even in bench shooting if you make the U.S. world team and go to represent the U.S. like happened a year ago. The host country/organizers supplied the powder etc....the U.S. team could not bring all of they're own supplies. So with the powder etc...being different then they normally use back home here they have to figure out during the practice days what load etc...works in they're guns and hope all goes well.

Later, Frank
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

It is funny you ask this question as I read an article about it yesterday. FWIW, it was in German Salazar's blog. The very same question was posed to him and he gave some history behind the tight bore for Palma matches. Seemed to have a lot to do with the ammo used in Palma matches in years gone by. It also seems the British were at fault again
grin.gif
. Damn Redcoats!

In short, it is no longer really necessary with the bullets used now. These were his views, not mine. Hell I have no knowledge of the subject, just curiousity.

Anyway, I'll look for the blog address when I am at my other computer and post it. A good read it was.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

I just re barreled my rifle from a factory pipe to a 25” Mike Rock 5R. I went with a Palma chamber as I wanted a tight chamber myself. The length from the base of the cartridge to the lands is 2.188” in my new chamber, Black Hills ammo measured 2.210 to ogive and Core Bond at 2.220 to ogive, I am not shooting any factory ammo. I just started load development and was testing 178 A-max seated at 2.186 to ogive with good results. Worked up to my original old powder charge and MV went from 2650 to 2725 fps.
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

I have a GAP build with a 20" Bartlein tight bore in .308. Accuracy is great, I put 3 into .1xx" sighting it in and it will do 1/2" 5 shot all day long. I also can't get it to copper foul.

Speed isn't any better than my factory Remington 20" LTR. I haven't chronoed it, but using JBM and 2600 fps it is on out to 700 yards. This is using Hornady Police TAP 168 AMAX.

-dan
 
Re: Tight bore vs. regular bore

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a very vaige understanding of how this works each way, but with the prospect of rebarreling the 308 in the future, and wanting to keep it as short as possible, what are the advantages of each.

Also anyone with numbers outta tight bore 308's 20" or less, that would be appriciated. </div></div>

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/01/equipment-palma-bullets-and-barrels.html

Found it.