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Times are Changing...

M

Mattrmvpd

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 30, 2004
1,334
434
South Georgia
#1
Its tough to sit by and see the world changing the way it is... Turning on the news today is almost too sad to bear....

I this weekend have spent my time arranging a NEW carrier that holds my Level 2 armor and my NEW ceramic plates. I have my accessories inbound... for mags...holster...hydration..radio..medkit...etc..

The really sad part is this..... I work for a University Police Department where this is becoming the norm for duty use..

Mine is simply for a SHTF scenario but I wanted something STRONGER than my level 2 armor that also held all of my essentials so that I was not having to use a drop leg holster... I needed everything chest accessable...

I pray everday that man will eventually see the error in our ways and hopefully work through our problems as oppossed to killing each other to try and solve them.

I know thats a long shot... so it forces us in LEO to be prepared everday and our service men and women to do the same abroad.

God bless us all and keep us all safe in the defending of our countries and lives.

I will get pics up later once the accessories arrive this week.

Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.)
 
#6
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it would be much simpler if punishments were stiff enough to make them either think twice or make it impossible to be repeat offender. </div></div>

This is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO true. Too bad our judicial system isn't changing with the times. You think we would learn from that.

I remember YEARS ago when a kid in Malaysia (I think) vandalized a few cars and got hit with a cane as part of his punishment.
I'll be willing to bet my left nut that that kid will never vandalize another piece of property for the rest of his days.

We need to adopt that mindset with people over here.

R.
 
#7
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it would be much simpler if punishments were stiff enough to make them either think twice or make it impossible to be repeat offender. </div></div>

Stupid people can't think in the 1st place...
mad.gif
 
#8
Re: Times are Changing...

I vote for dismemberment stations for those that take life. The public can reclaim usable organs. Train future Doctors and Nurses on the finer points of organ recovery for transplanting in the folks who were dealt a bad hand.
 
#9
Re: Times are Changing...

Public punishment for some crimes, i agree that kid that got the cane whipping in public was a changed person after that. But as long as those ACLU jelly dicks are around we will never see it in this lifetime.
 
#10
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember YEARS ago when a kid in Malaysia (I think) vandalized a few cars and got hit with a cane as part of his punishment.
I'll be willing to bet my left nut that that kid will never vandalize another piece of property for the rest of his days.</div></div>

Michael P. Fay

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In 1996, he was cited in Florida for a number of violations, including careless driving, reckless driving, not reporting a crash and having an open bottle of alcohol in a car. Later, in 1998, still in Florida, Fay was arrested for possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia, charges to which he confessed but was not found guilty because of technical errors in his arrest.</div></div>

Didn't seem to improve him too quickly. Still, I think it's the way to go as well. People need to know the penalty will SUCK if they do things they should not.
 
#11
Re: Times are Changing...

It has been proven that MOST of the murderers who have started the killing sprees have had a well documented mental illness. The guy who shot Regan, Virginia Tech, Columbine.

I would say that a law should get passed to do something about it, but it ends up coming back to that story about that poor vet who had his 2nd Amendment rights taken away because someone felt he was a risk.

But we are all at risk...
 
#12
Re: Times are Changing...

Have times rally changed all that much or is that Cops see all the cool shit soldiers have been playing with the last ten years and want to get their hands on some of it. I see it more as the R&D of combat gear bleeding over into the LE world. It's a market with money and I would guess they want a piece of it.

94 Cops died by rifle since 2000. That is a pretty low number when we start trying to justify the cost to outfit all beat cops with rifle protection. Not to mention that I don't think most would want to wear it. For now, it's a personal purchase made on the officer's part to have it or not have it unless their job description deems it necessary. Most departments don't like the military look it brings to the public so it's a hard sell. Plates are heavy, fragile and cost a shit load to purchase. Until they come down in weight and price, I don't see this catching on anytime soon. That is unless we start seeing many more cops die by high caliber.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_27.html

P.S. I have an active shooter setup that I purchased because I could (many LEO around the country don't have $1500 to spend on this stuff) and because I have been seeing all the cool shit our soldiers have been playing with. I am on the same page as you but I am really trying to believe that it's not much worse out there today than yesterday. At least not yet. Doesn't hurt to be ready.

Stay safe.
 
#14
Re: Times are Changing...

LEO. I work for a very traditional dept. Our uniform has not changed for over 50 years and I know we are not alone. Some of the guys want to "update" they way they wear their gear but going to a full load out vest/carrier is a drastic change.
 
#15
Re: Times are Changing...

My towns local PD is very tradition as well. Some of the guys started wearing the tactical outer carriers and the BDU style pants. One of the supervisors had an issue with the look. Stupid really, considering how it allowed the guys to carry what they needed more efficiently. I doubt many officers would wear level IV armor on a daily basis due to the weight and stiffness. That type of armor would have saved a life in 1989 when ECSO Deputies Carlson and Dillemuth were shot with a rifle while approaching a house to serve a warrant. Carlson survived his wound, Dillemuth did not.
 
#17
Re: Times are Changing...

Come on guys... all criminals can be rehabilitated. Some may just need a longer sentence than others... others need to be rehabilitated a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc... before they finally understand what it takes to be privileged to live amongst society.... least this is the thought of our failed judicial system

Our system NEEDS to change in order to keep us all safe. The sad thing is.. our society becomes sympathetic to these criminals until they themselves are victim.. others have family that are criminals that they seem to think they should side with and protect because hey, that's what family is for right??? (Sarcasm)

Our department recently got rid of our tac teams uniform... no longer will they wear tac vest and BDUs.. instead they will back to wearing normal uniform with our uncomfortable duty belts.. according to the citizens of our town.. the tac uniforms were too intimidating.. our tac teams primarily do parole/probation searches, gang sweeps, warrants, and assist our away team.. these aren't the people who come to your house when you have a spat with your neighbor or when your home is burglarized

I'm scared to think how things will be in 20-30 years from now

I apologize in advance if non of this makes sense or grammar errors... typing this all from my Droid...
grin.gif
 
#18
Re: Times are Changing...

I agree that most dont want to wear it every day all day..

I am there as well. Its NOT my normal vest setup. Its only in the event that an issue occurrs within our jurisdiction or a mutual aid call comes out that may require it.

True the cost does keep most from affording it but in some cases its NOT a bad idea to have a savings for toys and gear. I know that in my past 9 years of service that I would have loved to have had a higher rated vest riding in my passenger seat on certain calls.

In South GA and the surrounding areas it VERY normal for everyone to have a rifle in their vehicle ALL the time. It is even ALLOWED that students on campus CAN have rifles in their vehicles at all times.

To me.... its just an added piece of security. If I NEVER need it then great... but if i do JUST ONCE then it has paid for itself TEN times over.

Gear accessories should be in this week so I will get some pics up.

JUST SO SOME KNOW.. this is NOT my first time wearing these molle level 4 vest.... I have used others in the past.. but the were all issued/hand me downs... I wanted one that I could set up FOR ME... and to leave it that way.

Matt. (LEO SOUTH GA.)
 
#19
Re: Times are Changing...

I know a quite a few LEO's and I've trained with a buttload of great ones too. Except for the few that do train and take their professional responsibility to the next level as they should do for a person carrying a weapon and possibly using it in public places, the general mindset with them is, if it's not provided by the department, they will not buy it.
I can only imagine the whining these guys would do too, if they had to wear Level 3 or 4 plates all day.

I don't get that mindset. This gear can save your life, why would you NOT wear it.(if authorized of course).
I bought all my own gear before going to Iraq as a security contractor, and while it sucked wearing it sometimes, it's the job. You don't have to like it you just have to do it. Big boy rules apply with this stuff.

These are the same guys that won't train either unless the department pays for it. Meanwhile their gun handling skills are atrocious.

Sometimes it's the politics that will not allow these guys to be protected as they should be, even as these times change.

Take a department with a uniform that has ties. That's probably one of the worst things an officer can wear in his uniform. That's a great tool for chocking and controlling the guy in a fight. If you have to wear one, make it a clip on. I know its a bit tacky but at least it can't be used against them in a fight.
Clippons are an old trick in the corporate protection world. Police departments need to put tradition in the back seat to the safety of their officers.

Put as usual, blood needs to be spilled before changes happen.

R.
 
#20
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't get that mindset. This gear can save your life, why would you NOT wear it.(if authorized of course).

These are the same guys that won't train either unless the department pays for it. Meanwhile their gun handling skills are atrocious.</div></div>

I believe this mentality is present in every department in the nation. Its amazing to see how many officers choose not to wear a vest. They complain that its too restricting or too hot. But as you said this piece of gear could possibly save their life. Our department issued ones may not stop AK rounds but I would hate to see someone die from a 9mm round to the chest simply cuz they don't like wearing it.

I spend alot of money on training ammunition for my department handgun. Many think im crazy for taking the time to train with my firearm.. but its nice to have confidence in my shooting. Especially if the officer next to me during a gun fight can't shoot worth a damn.

Looking forward to seeing this vest set up.. I may need to do the same someday.
 
#21
Re: Times are Changing...

Try being nicknamed.... or segregated due to them thinking your a "GUN NUT."

They dont understand why I do rifle training... and shotgun training with my own ammo and weapons...

Funny thing is there are a couple of us that have prior training from larger agencies... one is still a auxillary to the county SWAT team...

I figure that with my issued level 2 and throwing on another with plates will make me GOOD TO GO for when/if an event takes place.

My last vest was HEAVY with the plates and SUCKED to train in but I did it EVERYTIME and still do.... I want to know what the weights going to feel like and if I have everything positioned in the BEST possible location.

Funny thing is no matter where you stick the accessories... I find myself thinking that there could be a better spot...

Pics will be coming SOON.... the gear should be here by the end of the week hopefully.

Matt
 
#22
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koobs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't get that mindset. This gear can save your life, why would you NOT wear it.(if authorized of course).

These are the same guys that won't train either unless the department pays for it. Meanwhile their gun handling skills are atrocious.</div></div>

but its nice to have confidence in my shooting. Especially if the officer next to me during a gun fight can't shoot worth a damn.

</div></div>

You got the right mindset, but the problem with having a piece of shit partner that cant shoot and wont train on his own is that that might get you killed. You should be confident in his ability too, sometimes you NEED a solid guy next to you.

Let me ask you, can you guys ask to be paired up with specific people if you have a partner? Or do you guys ride solo?

In our PSD team's if guys didn't train or had the skill, they were ID immediately and were treated like rejects, and if we had the chance to dump them off the team we would. It was brutal, LOLOLOL!!!! But that's the military mentality. If you can't hold your own you're a piece of shit slacker and deserved NO respect. Again big boy rules apply. I love that saying because it's so true in that community.

R.
 
#23
Re: Times are Changing...

Rickp,

I wished... we ride solo... even at the City PD where I worked we rode solo... Most of us covered MULTIPLE beats/zones inside the city with super high call volumes... sometimes backup felt like it was NEVER going to get there.

Bad thing is with agencies around here... the officers that dont like to train and that are piss poor are retained due to it costing soo much money to retrain another and replace them...

As budget decline... it seem that city and governments cut back on someo of the most needed resources.. LEO/Firefighters in the local governments have been taking hits... as this year ends and the new one comes the story seems to be the same... These issue force agencies to keep those officers that really need to be elsewhere working.

Matt.
 
#24
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sdkidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember YEARS ago when a kid in Malaysia (I think) vandalized a few cars and got hit with a cane as part of his punishment.
I'll be willing to bet my left nut that that kid will never vandalize another piece of property for the rest of his days.</div></div>

Michael P. Fay

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In 1996, he was cited in Florida for a number of violations, including careless driving, reckless driving, not reporting a crash and having an open bottle of alcohol in a car. Later, in 1998, still in Florida, Fay was arrested for possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia, charges to which he confessed but was not found guilty because of technical errors in his arrest.</div></div>

Didn't seem to improve him too quickly. Still, I think it's the way to go as well. People need to know the penalty will SUCK if they do things they should not.</div></div>

FWIW, I read an interview with him not too long ago where he said he still has nightmares about the public lashing and wakes up in a cold sweat in complete fear. He might act like a douchebag but I'll bet he won't soon forget what happened that particular time. We just need to take a page out of their book and start hanging some manners on folks. Make damn sure that every crime has a corresponding consequence.
 
#25
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it would be much simpler if punishments were stiff enough to make them either think twice or make it impossible to be repeat offender. </div></div>

Doesn't make much sense for the murder suicide types. They are going to kill the innocent, then kill themselves. Not many preventive measures accept the armor. Problem is, most 'bad guys' know that LEO have firearms and can shoot back. Us civilians can't (on campus).

For those that didn't attempt suicide, I would have to completely agree with your statement.

For those whom are LEO, stay safe.

SS
 
#26
Re: Times are Changing...

SkyScrapin,

Very true..... There was or is a company out there that after the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings started marketing a armored back pack... I have seen them on the net before... I remember thinking wow..... thats overkill... but now the more I think of it... its NOT a bad idea.... especially for those on campuses.

Matt.
 
#28
Re: Times are Changing...

Reading some of the posts saddens me more. Why should the system handle the execution of a killer? In the olden days you shot my wife, I would meet you, and walk you to your maker with my peacemaker... I think we need to get back to that way of life. Society has no place in the actions taken against my family, and the actions I take to right it.

I feel 30 days after someone is killed the family that was wronged should have the right to either accept it and drive on, or take the actions to ensure that it doesnt happen to the rest of their family. Ownership of execution, no chamber, chair, or rope dealt by the government has the same wrath as my finger on my 45.

I actually think the death penalty in its current form is weak, as it should be the family wronged to choose, do I turn the other cheek, or do I defend my family from the cumholster that wronged us.
 
#29
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koobs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't get that mindset. This gear can save your life, why would you NOT wear it.(if authorized of course).

These are the same guys that won't train either unless the department pays for it. Meanwhile their gun handling skills are atrocious.</div></div>

but its nice to have confidence in my shooting. Especially if the officer next to me during a gun fight can't shoot worth a damn.

</div></div>

You got the right mindset, but the problem with having a piece of shit partner that cant shoot and wont train on his own is that that might get you killed. You should be confident in his ability too, sometimes you NEED a solid guy next to you.

Let me ask you, can you guys ask to be paired up with specific people if you have a partner? Or do you guys ride solo?

In our PSD team's if guys didn't train or had the skill, they were ID immediately and were treated like rejects, and if we had the chance to dump them off the team we would. It was brutal, LOLOLOL!!!! But that's the military mentality. If you can't hold your own you're a piece of shit slacker and deserved NO respect. Again big boy rules apply. I love that saying because it's so true in that community.

R. </div></div>

It depends... our city is divided into districts: Northwest, Northeast, Central, Southwest, Southeast. I work in Southeast.. Its one of the more gang populated areas. Our captain came from SWAT. He believes in being aggressive when handling criminals in our area in order to help prevent any further crimes, in our area. In order to be more aggressive, he believes in having all units double up.

Normally I ride with certain people who I work well with.. unfortunatly sometimes someone doesn't show up so I get put with someone who only cares about getting off work on time.. These are the same people that don't stay up to date with current crime trends or training. Our Sgts, LT, and Captain knows who are the 'warriors' (as they say) or who are the ones who should consider going somewhere else next year.

Our Captain has no problem telling you "I don't want you here next year so do not come back." Unfortunatly he can't force anyone so they continue to return.
 
#30
Re: Times are Changing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sdkidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Michael P. Fay

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In 1996, he was cited in Florida for a number of violations, including careless driving, reckless driving, not reporting a crash and having an open bottle of alcohol in a car. Later, in 1998, still in Florida, Fay was arrested for possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia, charges to which he confessed but was not found guilty because of technical errors in his arrest.</div></div>

Didn't seem to improve him too quickly. Still, I think it's the way to go as well. People need to know the penalty will SUCK if they do things they should not. </div></div>

Beg to differ - punishment isn't the same as 'rehabilitation'. Punishment is for the benefit of society. It would hard to argue that society did not benefit, HE LEFT and went back to the land of candy asses.


Good luck
 
#31
Re: Times are Changing...

I can tell you first hand that 'rehabilition' is a fucking joke. I asked a con one day going into the visit room what he learned from the sex offender program. His response was "apathy", as in he didn't give a shit what he did to his victim. His counselors would have prefered him to say empathy. This piece of shit was a middle aged W/M that looked like Dick Van Patten fron Eight is Enough. Like most con's he was just blowing smoke up the counselors ass's to get through the program and get his release date. Only way to 'rehabilitate' this shit is a one way trip to Hell.
 
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