To blink, or not to blink

[BoltBandit]

Gotta question for the hide, especially the high level PRS guys, though this may apply to multiple other disciplines.

Something I’ve been working on is calling my shots, and in that journey of research (including a new build I’m doing), it’s easy to play blame on the relatively (emphasis on relative here guys) heavier recoil of the 6.5CM, and began researching lighter recoiling rounds such as the 6 Dasher/GT, or maybe even the 25x47 Lapua.

I spent about 5 hours at the range yesterday, with a heavy focus on calling my shots. What I realized is that I blink. I blink every damn time.

For context, I see the reticle right before the report, or trigger pull. I’m not anticipating the shot. I even had a buddy through in a dummy round to confirm.

I’ve tried doubling up on ear pro to no avail. I even struggle with this on the spotting scope. Blinking is helped my running suppressed, but my fundamentals aren’t on point enough to control the recoil enough to spot my misses. The only thing I haven’t tried is wrap around glasses to see if air turbulence from the muzzle break is causing me to blink.

So question 1: Does it even matter if I blink upon hearing the rifle report?

Question 2: If it does, how do I fix it?

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Some call blinking flinching, and reacting to the shot is not ideal.

You get used to it through repetition and having someone watch you helping you work on technique.

Have someone load your rifle for you so you don't know if it is a live round or dry fire. It may not be a reaction to the noise, but knowing the trigger broke and anticipation of the shot.

 

[Ronin22]

To keep myself from doing this, I burn that center dot/crosshair in my focus and follow through to see the hit on target. I blink just after the shot. Not before or during. You might have to go with the surprise method of breaking the trigger.

 

[GeoDude]

What do your groups look like and are you hitting the target? Do you blink with double ear pro and suppressor?

 

[Snuby642]

If it's actually the recoil that triggers you to blink (using good glasses double ear pro etc.)

I just shot my 6mm arc for the first time and thought, what the hell was there powder in the round?

Shure enough a hole in the target.
The recoil impulse was long and slow, strait back. Since I had only an old school birdcage on it as thread protection, no concusive blast.

This was on my standard precision lower so no changes there.

I had been shooting a 20 inch 223 with an aggressive brake that has a lot of blast even though it is not directed back by design.

I will be testing this more.

Anyway the concusive blast could well be a problem, or the actual recoil. I'm old and avoid long range sessions with some calibers.

When I started shooting 38 special defense rounds in an air weight snubnose 1 7/8 barrel all other pistols seemed whimpy all of a sudden.

Go borrow a 50 cal or 7mm mag for a week and get back to us .

 

[Sheldon N]

Some very good shooters still blink, so it's not absolutely necessary to get rid of the blink.

However, the very best shooters tend not to blink and are completely non-reactive to the rifle and recoil. Obviously, not blinking helps you to see downrange sooner and more clearly. Even if you don't blink, I think there's a nuance of how quickly you can refocus your vision after concussion/recoil.

To evaluate yourself use your phone in slow-mo mode, filming a close up of your hand/trigger finger/face and watch to see how you're responding to the shot.

As far as how to fix it, try shooting a series of shots where the goal is simply to not blink... like mentally pinning your eyes wide open with 100% effort. Get comfortable doing that, then slowly work towards doing it in a relaxed state. I find that when I'm shooting my best in competition my mental energy and focus is so intently downrange that I don't really perceive the recoil or blast.

 

[Snuby642]

^^^^^^^^^^ What @Sheldon N
said.

As far as how to fix it, try shooting a series of shots where the goal is simply to not blink... like mentally pinning your eyes wide open with 100% effort. Get comfortable doing that, then slowly work towards doing it in a relaxed state. I find that when I'm shooting my best in competition my mental energy and focus is so intently downrange that I don't really perceive the recoil or blast.

When my state of mind condenses down to trigger and sight picture only, then I'm on my game.

Doesn't matter the discipline, firearm type or conditions.

Shotgun, pistol, rifle , hunting or targets doesn't matter. Muscle memory takes care of the rest.

I tell my family and friends that I go to range for peace and quiet, some folks get that and some don't.

I shoot some at an indoor rifle range for initial lader tests.
No environmental effects or excuses.

At times the place shakes from concussion of multiple rifles, hot brass flying in your face and down your neck.

You don't feel recoil or any of it after a while. You just have to forget the concussion and see the shot home.

 

[BoltBandit]

Some call blinking flinching, and reacting to the shot is not ideal.

You get used to it through repetition and having someone watch you helping you work on technique.

Have someone load your rifle for you so you don't know if it is a live round or dry fire. It may not be a reaction to the noise, but knowing the trigger broke and anticipation of the shot.

Definitely not flinching. I did the random dummy round trick to make that determination, and practice dry firing to consciously keep my eyes open through the shot. Short of duck taping my eyes open, I've been largely unsuccessful, lol

What do your groups look like and are you hitting the target? Do you blink with double ear pro and suppressor?

If I'm benched, 1/2" to 3/4" all day.
.

 

[BoltBandit]

If it's actually the recoil that triggers you to blink (using good glasses double ear pro etc.)

I just shot my 6mm arc for the first time and thought, what the hell was there powder in the round?

Shure enough a hole in the target.
The recoil impulse was long and slow, strait back. Since I had only an old school birdcage on it as thread protection, no concusive blast.

This was on my standard precision lower so no changes there.

I had been shooting a 20 inch 223 with an aggressive brake that has a lot of blast even though it is not directed back by design.

I will be testing this more.

Anyway the concusive blast could well be a problem, or the actual recoil. I'm old and avoid long range sessions with some calibers.

When I started shooting 38 special defense rounds in an air weight snubnose 1 7/8 barrel all other pistols seemed whimpy all of a sudden.

Go borrow a 50 cal or 7mm mag for a week and get back to us .

That's kind of what I'm thinking.... maybe i'm just jumpy, lol. I might need to bring out the 7mm Mag to see if I can dead'n my reaction a bit. Not a bad idea. I good buddy of mine suggested more time on my 22. Master that and then work my way up. Both worth giving a shot.

 

[BoltBandit]

If it's actually the recoil that triggers you to blink (using good glasses double ear pro etc.)

I just shot my 6mm arc for the first time and thought, what the hell was there powder in the round?

Shure enough a hole in the target.
The recoil impulse was long and slow, strait back. Since I had only an old school birdcage on it as thread protection, no concusive blast.

This was on my standard precision lower so no changes there.

I had been shooting a 20 inch 223 with an aggressive brake that has a lot of blast even though it is not directed back by design.

I will be testing this more.

Anyway the concusive blast could well be a problem, or the actual recoil. I'm old and avoid long range sessions with some calibers.

When I started shooting 38 special defense rounds in an air weight snubnose 1 7/8 barrel all other pistols seemed whimpy all of a sudden.

Go borrow a 50 cal or 7mm mag for a week and get back to us .

That's kind of what I'm thinking.... maybe i'm just jumpy, lol. I might need to bring out the 7mm Mag to see if I can dead'n my reaction a bit. Not a bad idea. I good buddy of mine suggested more time on my 22. Master that and then work my way up. Both worth giving a shot.

Some very good shooters still blink, so it's not absolutely necessary to get rid of the blink.

However, the very best shooters tend not to blink and are completely non-reactive to the rifle and recoil. Obviously, not blinking helps you to see downrange sooner and more clearly. Even if you don't blink, I think there's a nuance of how quickly you can refocus your vision after concussion/recoil.

To evaluate yourself use your phone in slow-mo mode, filming a close up of your hand/trigger finger/face and watch to see how you're responding to the shot.

As far as how to fix it, try shooting a series of shots where the goal is simply to not blink... like mentally pinning your eyes wide open with 100% effort. Get comfortable doing that, then slowly work towards doing it in a relaxed state. I find that when I'm shooting my best in competition my mental energy and focus is so intently downrange that I don't really perceive the recoil or blast.

I'll give that a go as well, holding my eyes wide open. Maybe do that while doubling up on ear pro, plus glasses. I'll do a slow-mo shot as well the next time I'm at the range, get an absolutely clear picture of what's going on. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Snuby642]

You were not using double ear pro?

I use hi quality custom "poured" internal for a single shot hunting or with a shotgun hunting and light loads. Everything else that's not suppressed subs gets the internal and electronic muffs turned up to hear range commands etc.

I thought that was a well recognized standard these days.

I warn anyone not doubling up that tinnitus is relentless, 24 / 7 / 365 deffining day and night. A quick way to scare new shooters is not double bagging.

I have had hearing loss since the 1970's, military aircraft / shooting.
The little foamies were substandard.

It wears on you all your life.

 

[Dot3]

When your mental energy is dedicated to watching the impact, as opposed to being focused on “not blinking,” you’ll probably notice improvement. For instance, when I’m on glass at a match, the first few rounds down range I have a little flinch when the shooting starts. But I pretty quickly get desensitized to it and am focusing on seeing trace the whole way and I no longer flinch or blink. I can’t really say whether I blink when I’m actually shooting other than I very rarely miss seeing the results downrange. My point was where you aim your focus and becoming desensitized to the blast.

 

[Ronws]

I always wear double protection. Foamies plus cans.

I have also been working on not blinking. This has been, and I might be doing it wrong, part and parcel of my working on keeping both eyes open. Primarily, to relax. Constantly holding one eye closed can also produce tension.

I is a work in progress.

 

[BoltBandit]

You were not using double ear pro?

I use hi quality custom "poured" internal for a single shot hunting or with a shotgun hunting and light loads. Everything else that's not suppressed subs gets the internal and electronic muffs turned up to hear range commands etc.

I thought that was a well recognized standard these days.

I warn anyone not doubling up that tinnitus is relentless, 24 / 7 / 365 deffining day and night. A quick way to scare new shooters is not double bagging.

I have had hearing loss since the 1970's, military aircraft / shooting.
The little foamies were substandard.

It wears on you all your life.

No, but started to, to mitigate blinking. Right now using decibalz, not sure how they compare to poured in place. I always ran a super high cheek riser for my cheek weld, and it pushed cans off my ears. I’m using less pressure now and more of a chin weld, so I can actually wear muffs now.

I have mild tinnitus….. wanting to be a rockstar plus shooting. Def way more proactive now.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[BoltBandit]

When your mental energy is dedicated to watching the impact, as opposed to being focused on “not blinking,” you’ll probably notice improvement. For instance, when I’m on glass at a match, the first few rounds down range I have a little flinch when the shooting starts. But I pretty quickly get desensitized to it and am focusing on seeing trace the whole way and I no longer flinch or blink. I can’t really say whether I blink when I’m actually shooting other than I very rarely miss seeing the results downrange. My point was where you aim your focus and becoming desensitized to the blast.

Tried that as well. I was just in Kansas for 5 days of prairie dog hunting, and still flinched a bit on a spotting scope when someone was using a brake. I didn’t double up out there. But damn, I never did get numb to it.

I’m gonna have to try a couple recommendations in here. Practicing with a 22. Practice with a 7mag. Trying forcing my eyes open and just shoot in a berm to name a few

 

[Snuby642]

At least toss some clays in the berm. Lol

 

[Dot3]

Tried that as well. I was just in Kansas for 5 days of prairie dog hunting, and still flinched a bit on a spotting scope when someone was using a brake. I didn’t double up out there. But damn, I never did get numb to it.

I’m gonna have to try a couple recommendations in here. Practicing with a 22. Practice with a 7mag. Trying forcing my eyes open and just shoot in a berm to name a few

Think of a jack-in-the-box. It’s designed to startle based on anticipation and the randomness of it popping off. You sit there with the crank thinking “any second now” and then you flinch when it goes. But if you’re just standing in a room doing something else, and a kid pops the jack in the box in the background, you don’t flinch. Because it’s not your focus.

Obviously more concussion causes a bigger reaction but I’ve shot and spotted from inside of a conex with braked rifles and flinching is no more of an issue there than out in the open.

One thing about a match setting specifically, the gunfire is no longer as random so to speak. It’s like horns and sirens in the city. Versus at my home range when it’s just a couple guys dinking around going slow, I still have that anticipation when on glass and my flinch reflex is worse. It’s something about being inundated with gunfire that causes it to become background noise instead of that jarring blast that causes the flinch.

 

[CK1.0]

There are things you can do to make things easier on one’s self… and also some things that can make it harder when it comes to controlling blinking/flinching or otherwise reacting to the report/recoil.

For me, crazy brakes that tame lots of recoil (but add tons of blast as the price) are off the menu for me… I found having a a less efficient brake that maybe doesn’t knock off as much recoil but is a happier place behind the gun is better for me.

 

[Snuby642]

Obviously more concussion causes a bigger reaction but I’ve shot and spotted from inside of a conex with braked rifles and flinching is no more of an issue there than out in the open.

That's got to suck, like shooting from inside a vehicle or worse.

 

[Dot3]

That's got to suck, like shooting from inside a vehicle or worse.

Yeah it sucks! It makes you almost dread those stages but I’m no less able to see downrange.

 

[BoltBandit]

That's got to suck, like shooting from inside a vehicle or worse.

Been there done that as well! Lol. So damn loud!

 

[BoltBandit]

There are things you can do to make things easier on one’s self… and also some things that can make it harder when it comes to controlling blinking/flinching or otherwise reacting to the report/recoil.

For me, crazy brakes that tame lots of recoil (but add tons of blast as the price) are off the menu for me… I found having a a less efficient brake that maybe doesn’t knock off as much recoil but is a happier place behind the gun is better for me.

Yeah, I’m looking into maybe Orgains brake, less reduction but less percussion as well. If I can find enough spare change in the couch, maybe even a thunderbeast rr hybrid brake/suppressor may be the right way to go for me

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I know some people say blinking can be fine, and many shoot good groups and blink. Many are also shooting heavy precision rigs with no recoil to speak of that minimize shooter mistakes on the target. I can get a first time shooter under MOA with rigs like that in one hour.

I may be wrong, but I can't give blinking a pass. It shows that you are changing what you have been doing at the moment of firing. If you blink with no recoil, what happens with magnum hunting weight rifles?

 

[BoltBandit]

I know some people say blinking can be fine, and many shoot good groups and blink. Many are also shooting heavy precision rigs with no recoil to speak of that minimize shooter mistakes on the target. I can get a first time shooter under MOA with rigs like that.

I may be wrong,, but I can't give blinking a pass. It shows that you are changing what you have been doing at the moment of firing. If you blink with no recoil, what happens with magnum hunting weight rifles?

It’s a good point. I think it matters though if you’re blinking in anticipation of recoil, or in reaction to recoil, all things else being equal. With a magnum round, if you’re blinking in response to recoil, and your ONLY response is blinking, I think you’d be ok. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

It’s a good point. I think it matters though if you’re blinking in anticipation of recoil, or in reaction to recoil, all things else being equal. With a magnum round, if you’re blinking in response to recoil, and your ONLY response is blinking, I think you’d be ok. Just my 2 cents.

If you are reacting to recoil, the bullet is still in the barrel. I see it as the same.

 

[CK1.0]

Yeah, I’m looking into maybe Orgains brake, less reduction but less percussion as well. If I can find enough spare change in the couch, maybe even a thunderbeast rr hybrid brake/suppressor may be the right way to go for me

I run the ACE brake w/ their cone of shame… does enough and it’s a pussycat, I’m also in the process of looking at the newer can/brake combos too.

A buddy I shoot with a bunch runs the TBAC and I’ve tried it, and TBH it’s not a whole hell of a lot quieter and there isn’t that much less blast/concussion behind the gun than my ACE setup... (YMMV)

 

[Snuby642]

My sample size with brakes is limited.
Can an overly aggressive brake (for caliber) cause torque and jump?

 

[CK1.0]

My sample size with brakes is limited.
Can an overly aggressive brake (for caliber) cause torque and jump?

IDK about torque and jump, but the aggressive ones these days move some air. So I’d be careful about clocking it unless that’s your intention (some brakes have small holes on the top to act like compensators for tuning one’s recoil/reticle movement, so having those larger blast ports level, unless you want a specific cant, is probably something to consider or look out for if you’re experiencing wonky reticle movement under recoil).

 

[LR1845]

@BoltBandit Do you blink when you dry fire? I stopped using muzzle brakes a long time ago as they were what caused my blink/flinch in the first place and at one point got bad enough that I went from placing pretty high at most matches to placing bottom middle. I would rather shoot with no muzzle device and take the recoil or shoot with a can...I shoot 6BRA and 6GT so recoil in minimal anyway.

If you are dead set on running a brake take @CK1.0 advise and get a brake that blows out the sides as apposed to back at you...the JP tank brake is retarded loud and ppl next to you will hate you but it is very effective.

 

[Snuby642]

There is also for your consideration and EC Tuner Brake.

One version I shoot has a design that mitigates blowback to the shooter but is loud as hell. It is an aggressive brake and cuts recoil well . You don't get the concussion in your face

The other version has strait to the side vents so it is acceptable for bench test competition I believe. So I suppose little to no concussion? Have not bought one yet .

The tuner works exactly as advertised. So if you end up using factory ammo it helps that and when you reload your own I normally get away without seating depth tests on most ammo and just tune in the best powder charge.

Quick easy and if temperature or altitude effects your load you can dial it in in with minimal effort.

He also sells a smaller ar version cheaper that I figure is less aggressive that I might get for my 223 (DMR) range gun.

This 6mm arc is so easy on the recoil, I may just try using a can instead.

24 inch barrel and 8 inch can, I may need a gun bearer to carry it for me.

Ultimately a can is the most pleasant to shoot for all involved.

 

[BoltBandit]

If you are reacting to recoil, the bullet is still in the barrel. I see it as the same.

I hear yah, I'm trying to differentiate between physically reacting and shifting POI versus simply blinking, and not keeping your eyes open through recoil. I understand your point though.

 

[BoltBandit]

@BoltBandit Do you blink when you dry fire? I stopped using muzzle brakes a long time ago as they were what caused my blink/flinch in the first place and at one point got bad enough that I went from placing pretty high at most matches to placing bottom middle. I would rather shoot with no muzzle device and take the recoil or shoot with a can...I shoot 6BRA and 6GT so recoil in minimal anyway.

If you are dead set on running a brake take @CK1.0 advise and get a brake that blows out the sides as apposed to back at you...the JP tank brake is retarded loud and ppl next to you will hate you but it is very effective.

Nope, eyes wide open. I went down in my basement after I posted just to confirm this for certain as I had thought of that too. If I blink during dry fire, then I'm really reenforcing that bad habit on the range. Unfortunately that's not the case. Unfortunately bc it could have been an easy fix, lol.

Right now I'm shooting a 6.5CM and recently purchased a Dn5 from MPA, which is JP loud. The thing eats up recoil but at a cost of a really loud percussion. So in solving one problem, I may have created another. I may try and put my original brake on (MPA prior to the Dn3. I also have a KGM R6.5 suppressor. It has 8-12 tiny holes around the end that I can remove a tiny allen screw to port some air. Not sure how affective either will be, but it's worth a try. I'm definitely going to look at a milder brake if these don't help. I am currenty building a 6x47 Lapua, so I'm curious how that will be with a suppressor or milder brake.

I recently saw a video from Jerry Miculek where he helped a guy with a flinch. He went to the side and had him shoot into a berm with his eyes closed of all things. Guess it helped to reset the brain? Dunno, but thought it was interesting.

 

[BoltBandit]

I run the ACE brake w/ their cone of shame… does enough and it’s a pussycat, I’m also in the process of looking at the newer can/brake combos too.

A buddy I shoot with a bunch runs the TBAC and I’ve tried it, and TBH it’s not a whole hell of a lot quieter and there isn’t that much less blast/concussion behind the gun than my ACE setup... (YMMV)

Dude, you can't be metal \m/ and run the cone of shame!!! Kidding.... That thing always seemed counter-intuitive to me. You're blasting back, but then slapping the cone with air to push the gun back into you. So it works pretty well?

 

[BoltBandit]

There is also for your consideration and EC Tuner Brake.

One version I shoot has a design that mitigates blowback to the shooter but is loud as hell. It is an aggressive brake and cuts recoil well . You don't get the concussion in your face

The other version has strait to the side vents so it is acceptable for bench test competition I believe. So I suppose little to no concussion? Have not bought one yet .

The tuner works exactly as advertised. So if you end up using factory ammo it helps that and when you reload your own I normally get away without seating depth tests on most ammo and just tune in the best powder charge.

Quick easy and if temperature or altitude effects your load you can dial it in in with minimal effort.

He also sells a smaller ar version cheaper that I figure is less aggressive that I might get for my 223 (DMR) range gun.

This 6mm arc is so easy on the recoil, I may just try using a can instead.

24 inch barrel and 8 inch can, I may need a gun bearer to carry it for me.

Ultimately a can is the most pleasant to shoot for all involved.

You've officially made it in life if you have a gun bearer!!! I'll check those out. I hear a lot of mixed feedback on Cortina's stuff. Hater's gonna hate I guess, lol.

 

[Snuby642]

Yes Eric Cortina
Has about an equal following on both sides.

His video's and tuner brake have helped me shoot better and it let me identify problems that I could then improve on. Possibly to the point of removing the brake and going bare or with can.

Problem remaining is rework on loads and seating length will have to be redone and for 223 where I shoot a lot of different bullets that is a huge pain, way easier to tune them in.

The blast from his brakes doesn't come backwards but they do blast plenty.

See if you can borrow a suppressed gun for some shots, you may like them better.

I actually like shooting suppressed better in mild calibers but don't like reloading for them with multiple bullets.

 

[CK1.0]

Dude, you can't be metal \m/ and run the cone of shame!!! Kidding.... That thing always seemed counter-intuitive to me. You're blasting back, but then slapping the cone with air to push the gun back into you. So it works pretty well?

I know what you mean, the cone/shield does seem counterintuitive with some brakes… but the ACE has straight ports that blow sideways (not back at ya) and they already start out as one of the most comfortable and least concussive (for the shooter) brakes out there. The ACE doesn’t claim to be the best at recoil-reduction, and it isn’t, it’s maybe ~80% as good as the best ones at that, and IMHO that’s pretty good since it has less than half of the concussion/blast back at the shooter as most of the others. It definitely works as an effective brake, just doesn’t hurt so much to shoot all-day.

When adding the shield/cone, the already docile ACE becomes a total pussycat. For me, the cone/shield almost makes it seem like the brake works even better, and while that probably isn’t true, it sure feels that way, since being behind the gun becomes a slightly nicer place to be.

YMMV or course, but for me with a ~23lb 6mm, less blast is more valuable and probably helps me shoot better than slightly more recoil-reduction would.

 

[Snuby642]

Does a 23 lb 6mm actually recoil at all ?

My 6mm arc is 11lb 12oz with a 30mm scope and no ammo.
It's 45 inches long at the moment with a vintage birdcage as a thread protector at the moment.
Carbine length buffer system.

The scope is small for the task but fine for load development / mid range.

Anyway it was so easy on the shoulder and no concussion I could just leave the birdcage on it.

I had envisioned needing a rifle length buffer assembly to mitigate recoil impulse, seems more of a luxury at the moment.

Not wanting to to sound like a smart ass but do you have a thread protector or birdcage to try?

The birdcage should keep downblast out of the dirt.

 

[taliv]

I’ll add a contrarian opinion here because I haven’t seen anyone address it. I think all the talk about breaks and noise etc and most of what people mean when they say recoil is missing the point.

The blink is caused by a rapid change in what you’re seeing. You’re staring through the scope looking hundreds of yards away. Suddenly the image shakes and appears to be a blur a few inches from your face. You blink because something looks like it’s right in front of your face.

It’s not the noise. It’s not the pain on your collar bone. Do you blink every time the rifles next to you go off? That never makes me blink.

I think you’ll find no matter how loud your rifle is, if you can keep the image steady, you’ll find it much easier to not blink.

YMMV

Dial your mag down all the way and see if it’s easier to stop blinking

 

[BoltBandit]

I’ll add a contrarian opinion here because I haven’t seen anyone address it. I think all the talk about breaks and noise etc and most of what people mean when they say recoil is missing the point.

The blink is caused by a rapid change in what you’re seeing. You’re staring through the scope looking hundreds of yards away. Suddenly the image shakes and appears to be a blur a few inches from your face. You blink because something looks like it’s right in front of your face.

It’s not the noise. It’s not the pain on your collar bone. Do you blink every time the rifles next to you go off? That never makes me blink.

I think you’ll find no matter how loud your rifle is, if you can keep the image steady, you’ll find it much easier to not blink.

YMMV

Dial your mag down all the way and see if it’s easier to stop blinking

I like that concept!

 

[flogxal]

I recently saw a video from Jerry Miculek where he helped a guy with a flinch. He went to the side and had him shoot into a berm with his eyes closed of all things. Guess it helped to reset the brain? Dunno, but thought it was interesting.

I think the brain reset comes in like this:

"That collection of recoil/jump, sound-blast, and startle/abruptness is all you have to manage, there is no need to close your eyes for this. And if you open them and keep them open, you can actually see what you are doing."

Something like that. It's an experiential lesson and a person may need to be talked through it.

I used similar methods teaching alpine skiing. To get people to focus on how things felt through their feet.

When I started shooting, I didn't have this "close your eyes!" impulse. But I can tell you that as a kid, I was deathly scared of diving head-first into the pool after learning swimming. Couldn't get me to do it. Some mental wall in my noggin had me stopped. Eventually a lifeguard at the pool had me do it in baby steps. I think the blink impulse in shooting is a lot like that mental wall I had.

 

[taliv]

After this thread I’ve been slo mo video of my eyes everyday as I shoot my cold bore experiment. Catching my trigger finger and both eyes in the frame.

Shooting 300nm axsr with mag dialed all the way up, I’ve discovered I have a bit of an odd habit. Maybe 25% of the time I can keep my scope eye from blinking though I will squint. But I shoot both eyes open and I always close my support eye. Not blink, just go from both eyes open to one eye open.

Weird.

 

[CK1.0]

For me, at first, when I started, I didn’t ever have flinch/blink issues… but I had a bout with it when I got/ran my first aggressive brakes (Fat Bastard, then Hellfire).

I started to develop an involuntary flinch/blink sometimes, and I think my shooting actually regressed for a while until I went to a straight-port, calmer brake (first the 5-port Insite Heathen for a few barrels, then ACE, now ACE/shield). In hindsight, I didn’t switch fast enough, because who wants to buy another $200-300+ muzzle device when you’ve already got a hot shit muzzle device?

I shoot both eyes open, but when I ran the more aggressive brakes with ports coming back at me with more blast, I caught myself blinking/flinching now and again, turning into a one eye closed guy when I didn’t mean to too much, having thought I had trained that out of me. I eventually figured out that recoil-reduction and concussion on the shooter were equally important to me, with me willing to give up sheer recoil-reduction performance for less blast/concussion and a nicer place to be while behind the gun.

To me, the concussion-wave/pressure-wave is the devil. Those waves do some no-BS physical damage, they can eventually make you deaf by shaking your skeleton and thus middle-ear to death, even when wearing the best double ear pro, you can’t hide from that shit. If the wave is strong enough, a blink will be involuntary and depending on the person, maybe not physically controllable.

It makes sense that some people might be more physically susceptible to concussion than others. Some guys can roll with the crazy blast, some like me, can’t, or just don’t want to.

An MPA DN5 is as aggressive as they come these days, works great for dissipating recoil, but mucho blast hombre, huge concussion-wave for you and any unlucky mammals nearby. Where with my ACE/shield, behind the gun is almost like having a beer on a beach under a palm tree comparatively lol (still an efficient brake, everyone to the sides still hates me).

I’d just see if you’re just like a lot of us who don’t do well with concussion, by trying a tamer brake or even bare muzzle (just to see), it’s pretty normal.

ETA: not to say everybody’s flinch/blink can be blamed on their muzzle device, it’s just something to consider… YMMV.

 

[BoltBandit]

For me, at first, when I started, I didn’t ever have flinch/blink issues… but I had a bout with it when I got/ran my first aggressive brakes (Fat Bastard, then Hellfire).

I started to develop an involuntary flinch/blink sometimes, and I think my shooting actually regressed for a while until I went to a straight-port, calmer brake (first the 5-port Insite Heathen for a few barrels, then ACE, now ACE/shield). In hindsight, I didn’t switch fast enough, because who wants to buy another $200-300+ muzzle device when you’ve already got a hot shit muzzle device?

I shoot both eyes open, but when I ran the more aggressive brakes with ports coming back at me with more blast, I caught myself blinking/flinching now and again, turning into a one eye closed guy when I didn’t mean to too much, having thought I had trained that out of me. I eventually figured out that recoil-reduction and concussion on the shooter were equally important to me, with me willing to give up sheer recoil-reduction performance for less blast/concussion and a nicer place to be while behind the gun.

To me, the concussion-wave/pressure-wave is the devil. Those waves do some no-BS physical damage, they can eventually make you deaf by shaking your skeleton and thus middle-ear to death, even when wearing the best double ear pro, you can’t hide from that shit. If the wave is strong enough, a blink will be involuntary and depending on the person, maybe not physically controllable.

It makes sense that some people might be more physically susceptible to concussion than others. Some guys can roll with the crazy blast, some like me, can’t, or just don’t want to.

An MPA DN5 is as aggressive as they come these days, works great for dissipating recoil, but mucho blast hombre, huge concussion-wave for you and any unlucky mammals nearby. Where with my ACE/shield, behind the gun is almost like having a beer on a beach under a palm tree comparatively lol (still an efficient brake, everyone to the sides still hates me).

I’d just see if you’re just like a lot of us who don’t do well with concussion, by trying a tamer brake or even bare muzzle (just to see), it’s pretty normal.

ETA: not to say everybody’s flinch/blink can be blamed on their muzzle device, it’s just something to consider… YMMV.

I definitely think there’s something to what you’re saying. The Dn5 is about as aggressive as they come. I’m going to revisit shooting with a can and bare muzzle. I think I’m just more sensitive to it than others for whatever reason, and like most of us with day jobs, can’t shoot frequently enough to really train it out of me. Thanks for the advice!