OK guys I have done a lot of research on the web about this subject. I go to the range about 2 times a week. I shoot my Springfield XD9, Walther P22, Ruger 1022, Benelli Nova 12ga (skeet), and the Remington 700 SPS Tactical. Typically I will put about 25 rounds through the 9, 25-50 through the P22, 100 through the Ruger, 50-100 through the 12ga, and 50-75 through the 700. I don't always shoot the hand guns but always shoot the 1022 and 700. All of these guns are within a couple months of being new. The other night I did a complete cleaning on all the guns. I use the Otis system with Shooters Choice. I also have bore snakes for all the guns. My question is how often do these guns, especially the rifle barrels, need to be cleaned? I have heard everything from every 5 rounds to every 250 rounds. I have heard the heavier cleaners like Sweets and Shooters Choice shouldn't be used that often. Does anyone have a tried and true method that works? I typically use Hoppes 9 everytime I shoot and the Shooters Choice every 200 rounds or so. I always oil the barrels pretty thick after using the Shooters Choice and clean it out at the range before shooting. Opinions please....
Gunsmithing To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
for the 10/22 some break free sprayed into the action to rinse out the crud, and the barrel every couple hundred rounds or so is what i do. the same for the shotgun, but i rarely clean my shotgun barrel, might just run a oily patch in it every now and then. the 700 others will chime in as i am still new in the LR game. i dont like xd's but i only clean my glocks every 500 rounds or so and even then its only because a dirty gun bugs me. but i always will wipe down the outside of all my guns with some sort of rust preventor regardless of the type of finish.
for the 10/22 some break free sprayed into the action to rinse out the crud, and the barrel every couple hundred rounds or so is what i do. the same for the shotgun, but i rarely clean my shotgun barrel, might just run a oily patch in it every now and then. the 700 others will chime in as i am still new in the LR game. i dont like xd's but i only clean my glocks every 500 rounds or so and even then its only because a dirty gun bugs me. but i always will wipe down the outside of all my guns with some sort of rust preventor regardless of the type of finish.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
i dont thoughroly clean all the time, but i do run CLP through the barrel and a brush then patches after every range session. due to the fact that i dont go out too often anymore. but after every 200-300 rounds i do a complete dissasemble and clean. same products plus a few others. i dont clean the outsides because all but one of my rifles is krylon camoed. dont want to be removing a 20 dollar paint job on a 2000 dollar rifle, now do i? but for my Marlin 336C i do wipe down the outside with a cloth to get the dust off.
i dont thoughroly clean all the time, but i do run CLP through the barrel and a brush then patches after every range session. due to the fact that i dont go out too often anymore. but after every 200-300 rounds i do a complete dissasemble and clean. same products plus a few others. i dont clean the outsides because all but one of my rifles is krylon camoed. dont want to be removing a 20 dollar paint job on a 2000 dollar rifle, now do i? but for my Marlin 336C i do wipe down the outside with a cloth to get the dust off.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
TC, you don't need to clean your 10/22, or any .22 rifle for that matter, beyond keeping the boltface clean and the muzzle, and the action clean if it's a semi-auto. Leave the barrel alone. More damage is done cleaning a .22 rimfire than shooting it. Eley, the Olympic caliber ammunition maker, cleans their test rifles -- which they use to gauge the quality of their ammo -- about every HUNDRED THOUSAND rounds. There's a lesson there.
Clean your pistols enough to ensure proper function. It's not about hair-splitting accuracy with them.
Clean the bore on your centerfire to remove powder and copper fouling. I abhor the boresnake and similar tools unless nothing else is handy. I much prefer a good bore guide and a coated rod with proper jag and patches. When to clean the SPS Tactical you mention? Put a Q-Tip swab in the muzzle end (of the UNLOADED rifle). Peek at the bore with the Q-Tip tilted around, and you'll see if you have copper fouling or not. If so, clean it when you can.
Shotgun cleaning is fine to ensure proper function. I clean my Rem 870 about every five years!
Back to the Rem 700 SPS. Keep the boltface clean, use a bit of grease behind the two lugs, and a bit near the bolt handle where it rides during cocking against the action. Unless you're storing the rifle for an extended period, do NOT put oil in the bore. It makes your first shot a real mystery.
TC, you don't need to clean your 10/22, or any .22 rifle for that matter, beyond keeping the boltface clean and the muzzle, and the action clean if it's a semi-auto. Leave the barrel alone. More damage is done cleaning a .22 rimfire than shooting it. Eley, the Olympic caliber ammunition maker, cleans their test rifles -- which they use to gauge the quality of their ammo -- about every HUNDRED THOUSAND rounds. There's a lesson there.
Clean your pistols enough to ensure proper function. It's not about hair-splitting accuracy with them.
Clean the bore on your centerfire to remove powder and copper fouling. I abhor the boresnake and similar tools unless nothing else is handy. I much prefer a good bore guide and a coated rod with proper jag and patches. When to clean the SPS Tactical you mention? Put a Q-Tip swab in the muzzle end (of the UNLOADED rifle). Peek at the bore with the Q-Tip tilted around, and you'll see if you have copper fouling or not. If so, clean it when you can.
Shotgun cleaning is fine to ensure proper function. I clean my Rem 870 about every five years!
Back to the Rem 700 SPS. Keep the boltface clean, use a bit of grease behind the two lugs, and a bit near the bolt handle where it rides during cocking against the action. Unless you're storing the rifle for an extended period, do NOT put oil in the bore. It makes your first shot a real mystery.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
what Nate said
what Nate said
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
Thanks for the info so far. So the 10/22 don't ever touch the barrel? Is this never ever? That barrel gets pretty nasty inside....I think I am on the right track with my pistols and shotgun. The 700 is my biggest concern. For example, I shot it 35 times yesterday and plan on shooting tomorrow. Should I clean it tonight? Is the Shooters Choice hard on the barrel? I would just like a general number of rounds that I should do my cleaning routine on the 700. Sorry if this is a stupid question but how will putting a q-tip in the end of my barrel tell me if I need to clean it? How am I supposed to see down the barrel?
Thanks for the info so far. So the 10/22 don't ever touch the barrel? Is this never ever? That barrel gets pretty nasty inside....I think I am on the right track with my pistols and shotgun. The 700 is my biggest concern. For example, I shot it 35 times yesterday and plan on shooting tomorrow. Should I clean it tonight? Is the Shooters Choice hard on the barrel? I would just like a general number of rounds that I should do my cleaning routine on the 700. Sorry if this is a stupid question but how will putting a q-tip in the end of my barrel tell me if I need to clean it? How am I supposed to see down the barrel?
G
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Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It makes your first shot a real mystery. </div></div>
Well said.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It makes your first shot a real mystery. </div></div>
Well said.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I clean my Rem 870 about every five years! </div></div>
I guess I need to be more diligent, it's been at least eight on mine....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I clean my Rem 870 about every five years!
I guess I need to be more diligent, it's been at least eight on mine....
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 700 is my biggest concern. For example, I shot it 35 times yesterday and plan on shooting tomorrow. Should I clean it tonight?</div></div>
I wipe off the bolt and wipe out the receiver every time I shoot. I only clean the bore about every 200 rounds. On my factory Remington barrel once I clean it is seems to take 20 rounds of so before it's groups tighten back up.
If you shoot often your rifle is not going to turn into a rustball overnight. Definitely give it a thorough cleaning if it's going to sit for a couple months.
I clean my 870 after each firing, but that is because it's a duty gun and it won't hurt it's accuracy any.
My M4 gets cleaned after every use, but it also has a chrome lined bore and chamber and I shoot it suppressed often.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 700 is my biggest concern. For example, I shot it 35 times yesterday and plan on shooting tomorrow. Should I clean it tonight?</div></div>
I wipe off the bolt and wipe out the receiver every time I shoot. I only clean the bore about every 200 rounds. On my factory Remington barrel once I clean it is seems to take 20 rounds of so before it's groups tighten back up.
If you shoot often your rifle is not going to turn into a rustball overnight. Definitely give it a thorough cleaning if it's going to sit for a couple months.
I clean my 870 after each firing, but that is because it's a duty gun and it won't hurt it's accuracy any.
My M4 gets cleaned after every use, but it also has a chrome lined bore and chamber and I shoot it suppressed often.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I fully clean all 5 of mine (P22, 1911, AR, M1A, 700P) after every outing. Probably not necessary, but do you think this could actually impinge on performance?
I fully clean all 5 of mine (P22, 1911, AR, M1A, 700P) after every outing. Probably not necessary, but do you think this could actually impinge on performance?
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I clean about every 100 rounds with my .243, and it shoots very well(3/4 MOA) from round 1-100.
I think it totally depends on your barrel and what makes your brain happy.
I clean about every 100 rounds with my .243, and it shoots very well(3/4 MOA) from round 1-100.
I think it totally depends on your barrel and what makes your brain happy.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think it totally depends on your barrel and what makes your brain happy. </div></div>
Lol
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think it totally depends on your barrel and what makes your brain happy. </div></div>
Lol
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I've never cleaned any of my rifles and "amazingly", the acuracy keeps gettng better. If they'r gonna sit for a while I might but some rust inhibitor in them but other than that I clean the action and crown and go about my shooting.
I've never cleaned any of my rifles and "amazingly", the acuracy keeps gettng better. If they'r gonna sit for a while I might but some rust inhibitor in them but other than that I clean the action and crown and go about my shooting.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I tend to be a neat freak and will clean after every outing.
The only exception is the .22 rimfire like mentioned above already. The little .22 needs the "garbage" that's left in the bore for lube. I learned this the hard way years ago with my Anschutz shooting Eley Black Box. After a patch / clean out I would spend another 20-50 rounds getting it to settle back down (waste of money).
My AR15 and SR15 get a complete cleaning. I know, some folks will say it's a waste of time on an AR but they're my rifles, my money and my time.
My bolt guns get a good cleaning. I don't use anything stronger than Shooters Choice though. When done I will run a wet oil patch down the bore then a dry patch. It leaves just a little in there as there are times like now where I won't get a chance to shoot for several months at a time. If I do leave a good coat of oil in the bore, before heading to the range I'll just punch a couple dry patches down the tube to clean it up.
just my way of doing things and .02¢
I tend to be a neat freak and will clean after every outing.
The only exception is the .22 rimfire like mentioned above already. The little .22 needs the "garbage" that's left in the bore for lube. I learned this the hard way years ago with my Anschutz shooting Eley Black Box. After a patch / clean out I would spend another 20-50 rounds getting it to settle back down (waste of money).
My AR15 and SR15 get a complete cleaning. I know, some folks will say it's a waste of time on an AR but they're my rifles, my money and my time.
My bolt guns get a good cleaning. I don't use anything stronger than Shooters Choice though. When done I will run a wet oil patch down the bore then a dry patch. It leaves just a little in there as there are times like now where I won't get a chance to shoot for several months at a time. If I do leave a good coat of oil in the bore, before heading to the range I'll just punch a couple dry patches down the tube to clean it up.
just my way of doing things and .02¢
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
Nate: Please expand on the Q-tip? What are you looking for/ how does it indicate copper fouling?
Nate: Please expand on the Q-tip? What are you looking for/ how does it indicate copper fouling?
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
My take on the q-tip is this. If you dip the q-tip in a copper cutting solvent, swipe down inside the muzzle and it turns green then it's indicating copper.
My take on the q-tip is this. If you dip the q-tip in a copper cutting solvent, swipe down inside the muzzle and it turns green then it's indicating copper.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
beyond rust preventative, I hardly ever clean my .308. All the big to-do about barrel break in appeals to my inner perfectionist, but in all <span style="font-style: italic">practicality</span> it makes just as much sense to (In a factory barrel) clean for powder every so often if I take a notion and just keep the rust at bay. My rifle shoots just fine.
From my very limited experience, I draw the conclusion that MOST Adrian Monk-esque cleaning practices are just left over from the corrosive ammo days.
beyond rust preventative, I hardly ever clean my .308. All the big to-do about barrel break in appeals to my inner perfectionist, but in all <span style="font-style: italic">practicality</span> it makes just as much sense to (In a factory barrel) clean for powder every so often if I take a notion and just keep the rust at bay. My rifle shoots just fine.
From my very limited experience, I draw the conclusion that MOST Adrian Monk-esque cleaning practices are just left over from the corrosive ammo days.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
I clean all my centerfire rifles after each range session. I oil the barrels, then I put them away.
I have done this ever since I was 8 and I got my first rifle and shotgun. I am 62 now. I have never had a problem associated with cleaning my firearms, and what has always worked for me still works.
There is no magic relationship between accuracy and cleaning. Let 'em go long enough, and you'll need to clean anyway. I just choose to do it more often, not because of accuracy, but because of the potential for bore deterioration associated with corrosion.
Shoot a frontstuffer or use some corrosive primers, then sit on the rifle for a week, and the bore is trash.
Do the same with a modern centerfire, put it away uncleaned for a couple of weeks, and I'd rather not answer your ad when you find out what happens.
If somebody complained on here about bore pitting, I'd likely know what caused it, and that would be one of the rare occasions when I would simply stay out fo the discussion.
I would no more suggest that cleaning is optional than I would advise a newbie to go ahead, exceed those max published loads.
Do what you think makes sense, but if some of our folks decide to take chances with cleaning/not cleaning, and they end up with pitted bores, I'm not going to be able to do much to help anyone after that fact.
Greg
I clean all my centerfire rifles after each range session. I oil the barrels, then I put them away.
I have done this ever since I was 8 and I got my first rifle and shotgun. I am 62 now. I have never had a problem associated with cleaning my firearms, and what has always worked for me still works.
There is no magic relationship between accuracy and cleaning. Let 'em go long enough, and you'll need to clean anyway. I just choose to do it more often, not because of accuracy, but because of the potential for bore deterioration associated with corrosion.
Shoot a frontstuffer or use some corrosive primers, then sit on the rifle for a week, and the bore is trash.
Do the same with a modern centerfire, put it away uncleaned for a couple of weeks, and I'd rather not answer your ad when you find out what happens.
If somebody complained on here about bore pitting, I'd likely know what caused it, and that would be one of the rare occasions when I would simply stay out fo the discussion.
I would no more suggest that cleaning is optional than I would advise a newbie to go ahead, exceed those max published loads.
Do what you think makes sense, but if some of our folks decide to take chances with cleaning/not cleaning, and they end up with pitted bores, I'm not going to be able to do much to help anyone after that fact.
Greg
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nate: Please expand on the Q-tip? What are you looking for/ how does it indicate copper fouling? </div></div>
The white cotton on the end of the q-tip reflects light onto the bore surface of the barrel, and allows you to see a lot more than just looking into it. Try it, you'll immediately see why it's suggested.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nate: Please expand on the Q-tip? What are you looking for/ how does it indicate copper fouling? </div></div>
The white cotton on the end of the q-tip reflects light onto the bore surface of the barrel, and allows you to see a lot more than just looking into it. Try it, you'll immediately see why it's suggested.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would just like a general number of rounds that I should do my cleaning routine on the 700. Sorry if this is a stupid question but how will putting a q-tip in the end of my barrel tell me if I need to clean it? How am I supposed to see down the barrel? </div></div>
One of the best long range shooters in the world, Jerry Tierney, cleans every couple of hundred rounds.
As to seeing down the barrel, dude, take a breath!
If you see copper fouling in the bore near the muzzle, then you have copper fouling in the rest of the barrel too. The Q-Tip works great to help you examine the bore near the muzzle. Like a 1/2". It's all you need to know.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would just like a general number of rounds that I should do my cleaning routine on the 700. Sorry if this is a stupid question but how will putting a q-tip in the end of my barrel tell me if I need to clean it? How am I supposed to see down the barrel? </div></div>
One of the best long range shooters in the world, Jerry Tierney, cleans every couple of hundred rounds.
As to seeing down the barrel, dude, take a breath!
If you see copper fouling in the bore near the muzzle, then you have copper fouling in the rest of the barrel too. The Q-Tip works great to help you examine the bore near the muzzle. Like a 1/2". It's all you need to know.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
I agree totally with Greg Langalious (sorry for mispell). The carbon left from gun paowder acts as a moisture magnet. I have several hunting rifles all purchased used (great deals). The story was the same every time gun on outside looked mint but the owner saqid would not shoot past 15 rds. I buy usaully at a song and just clean and clean and clean. Copper and crud is coming out for days. Usually have to use JB paste. Eventually gun is clean and shoots real nice. Bed/flaot and trigger job and wow none of my rem 700 uncluding the used ones that did not shoot now shoot more than .5 to .75. Remember these are hunting guns not precision match. Point being is Greg is spot on, you must get the powdery grud out. If not i wil be happy to pay $150 to $200 for that 700 that no longer shoots.
I agree totally with Greg Langalious (sorry for mispell). The carbon left from gun paowder acts as a moisture magnet. I have several hunting rifles all purchased used (great deals). The story was the same every time gun on outside looked mint but the owner saqid would not shoot past 15 rds. I buy usaully at a song and just clean and clean and clean. Copper and crud is coming out for days. Usually have to use JB paste. Eventually gun is clean and shoots real nice. Bed/flaot and trigger job and wow none of my rem 700 uncluding the used ones that did not shoot now shoot more than .5 to .75. Remember these are hunting guns not precision match. Point being is Greg is spot on, you must get the powdery grud out. If not i wil be happy to pay $150 to $200 for that 700 that no longer shoots.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
well I am not a scientist and did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night but I am about 8 months into a rather interesting test of my own. My shooting partner and I each had identical rifles built last year. What started as a joke has now turned funny. He cleans his rifle after every use and I never clean mine except to wipe the exterior and clean the bolt face. We have fired about 700 rounds each and so far the only thing we notice is him yelling at me while I make fun of him cleaning his rifle I plan on cleaning it as soon as there is a noticable loss in accuracy....we will see
well I am not a scientist and did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
hi chaps
i hope i can give a small amount of adive when it come to the topic of clean or not to clean.
each round that is fired leaves a layer of copper followed by a layer of carbon & powder residue,every round fired repeats this process.
the carbon & copper layers are deposited over the whole length of the barrel but mostly just infront of the throat.
if this build up is left unchecked by regular cleaning after each shooting session the bore diameter reduces & over time will lead to hard extractions,burst & leaking primers, even case head separation.
if your barrel is left until accuracy drops off it is to late to save your barrel, as the carbon & copper layers have been compressed & polished into the barrel surface.
hi chaps
i hope i can give a small amount of adive when it come to the topic of clean or not to clean.
each round that is fired leaves a layer of copper followed by a layer of carbon & powder residue,every round fired repeats this process.
the carbon & copper layers are deposited over the whole length of the barrel but mostly just infront of the throat.
if this build up is left unchecked by regular cleaning after each shooting session the bore diameter reduces & over time will lead to hard extractions,burst & leaking primers, even case head separation.
if your barrel is left until accuracy drops off it is to late to save your barrel, as the carbon & copper layers have been compressed & polished into the barrel surface.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
Hard to argue with reality. Many many folks here leave their bore "dirty" and only clean when accuracy drops off. Seems to work for us. The proof is on the target.
Hard to argue with reality. Many many folks here leave their bore "dirty" and only clean when accuracy drops off. Seems to work for us. The proof is on the target.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
On the rimfire note I've always heard that with 22 mag/17's that you should follow typical centerfire cleaning as the bullets are truly a copper jacket not just a copper "wash" as opposed to the no cleaning needed really for the 22LR. On 22LR many top gun makers suggest almost zero cleaning I wanted to say that anschutz was like every 5000/10000 rounds. Volquartsen recommends nothing but a patch and some powder solvent once and awhile, no brush, no copper solvent.
I do have a question though, copper fowling is pretty easy to see/address with the old Qtip method. What about throat carbon buildup fowling that I've read about? How do you address this type of buildup and often and the method to do this type of cleaning.
Shotguns I've seen the whole range, I know guys shooting at a national level that never clean their barrels all year, over probably 50,000 rounds or more a year, just spray out the action/trigger assembly and call it good. The only downside I can see is that much like powder fowling, the plastic wad fowling can trap moisture between it and the barrel and I've seen some very expensive trap guns with destroyed barrels because they were not cleaned. On my guns I usually shoot some cleaning spray in there brush it a bit and call it good, enough to get out the wad fowling. If you try to get out every bit of lead fowling esp. at the choke/forcing cones you will probably wear the barrel out cleaning it.
There is also the difference in use. A benchrest rifle shooter may not be too worried about minor rust buildup in a barrel because that barrel is disposable in their eyes. I don't know how often they change barrels but I'd be willing to bet at least once a year. So someone concerned with keeping their hunting rifle barrel in good condition that they want to last a few decades or more might require different tactics.
On the rimfire note I've always heard that with 22 mag/17's that you should follow typical centerfire cleaning as the bullets are truly a copper jacket not just a copper "wash" as opposed to the no cleaning needed really for the 22LR. On 22LR many top gun makers suggest almost zero cleaning I wanted to say that anschutz was like every 5000/10000 rounds. Volquartsen recommends nothing but a patch and some powder solvent once and awhile, no brush, no copper solvent.
I do have a question though, copper fowling is pretty easy to see/address with the old Qtip method. What about throat carbon buildup fowling that I've read about? How do you address this type of buildup and often and the method to do this type of cleaning.
Shotguns I've seen the whole range, I know guys shooting at a national level that never clean their barrels all year, over probably 50,000 rounds or more a year, just spray out the action/trigger assembly and call it good. The only downside I can see is that much like powder fowling, the plastic wad fowling can trap moisture between it and the barrel and I've seen some very expensive trap guns with destroyed barrels because they were not cleaned. On my guns I usually shoot some cleaning spray in there brush it a bit and call it good, enough to get out the wad fowling. If you try to get out every bit of lead fowling esp. at the choke/forcing cones you will probably wear the barrel out cleaning it.
There is also the difference in use. A benchrest rifle shooter may not be too worried about minor rust buildup in a barrel because that barrel is disposable in their eyes. I don't know how often they change barrels but I'd be willing to bet at least once a year. So someone concerned with keeping their hunting rifle barrel in good condition that they want to last a few decades or more might require different tactics.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
hi
i have had the oppertunity to measure many barrels in the resent past from various forces & the results have been quit shocking.
using simple run gauges it is possible to monitor the ammount of carbon & copper build up.
the results from this have shown that in this case 7.62 barrels have closed up in opperation by more than 0.015mm at the throat but remain near original size at the muzzle.
hi
i have had the oppertunity to measure many barrels in the resent past from various forces & the results have been quit shocking.
using simple run gauges it is possible to monitor the ammount of carbon & copper build up.
the results from this have shown that in this case 7.62 barrels have closed up in opperation by more than 0.015mm at the throat but remain near original size at the muzzle.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
Everyone has their own opinion. I encourage you to read and look around more. Some benchrest shooters pretty much scrub their barrels after only a few rounds while some tactical shooters wait hundreds. It really also depends how much accuracy you want or need.
One thing remains true: Almost all wear on barrels comes from improper cleaning. Even with proper bore guides ect. bench resters wear out barrels very quickly.
My personal Method (for the 700): I clean after almost every range outing. However, I will just use a wet patch (usually with Hoppes) let it soak for about an hour. Then I will run wet patch dry patch until it comes out mostly clean. I will leave oil in the bore if it is going to sit there a while. Then at the range whether oil or not I will run a dry patch throug the bore. Changing temperatures can cause wet to condense in the barrel so roding it on the range is a good thing. Wet or oil can cause hydrostatic pitting if left in when shooting. I stay away from brushes myself and use a nylon ones if I have to.
Everyone has their own opinion. I encourage you to read and look around more. Some benchrest shooters pretty much scrub their barrels after only a few rounds while some tactical shooters wait hundreds. It really also depends how much accuracy you want or need.
One thing remains true: Almost all wear on barrels comes from improper cleaning. Even with proper bore guides ect. bench resters wear out barrels very quickly.
My personal Method (for the 700): I clean after almost every range outing. However, I will just use a wet patch (usually with Hoppes) let it soak for about an hour. Then I will run wet patch dry patch until it comes out mostly clean. I will leave oil in the bore if it is going to sit there a while. Then at the range whether oil or not I will run a dry patch throug the bore. Changing temperatures can cause wet to condense in the barrel so roding it on the range is a good thing. Wet or oil can cause hydrostatic pitting if left in when shooting. I stay away from brushes myself and use a nylon ones if I have to.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
A squirt or two of wipeout,let sit 20-30 minutes, three patches on a non embedding rod with a bore guide, good to go. Fire a fouler before hunting or target shooting.
Cleaning wrecks more guns than shooting.......
A squirt or two of wipeout,let sit 20-30 minutes, three patches on a non embedding rod with a bore guide, good to go. Fire a fouler before hunting or target shooting.
Cleaning wrecks more guns than shooting.......
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
IMHO not cleaning wrecks more barrels than shooting. But not in the way most would assume I mean this. Those dirty barrels shoved in a closet for 5 or 10 years are sometimes toast. Clean any barrel that is going to be sitting for a long period of time, other than that do what suits ya.
IMHO not cleaning wrecks more barrels than shooting. But not in the way most would assume I mean this. Those dirty barrels shoved in a closet for 5 or 10 years are sometimes toast. Clean any barrel that is going to be sitting for a long period of time, other than that do what suits ya.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true answer
I clean once every 6 months or so. I think all the barrel "break-in" cleaning routines and excessive scrubbing harm barrels more than shooting ever will. Unless you're shooting some nasty milsurp or other dirty rounds I wouldn't worry about it too much. Once your accuracy starts falling off from a dirty barrel, get out the cleaning supplies. Make sure to fire a fouling shot afterwards.
Other than that, eddybo nailed it in that you should always properly clean a barrel that's going to be sitting around.
-matt
I clean once every 6 months or so. I think all the barrel "break-in" cleaning routines and excessive scrubbing harm barrels more than shooting ever will. Unless you're shooting some nasty milsurp or other dirty rounds I wouldn't worry about it too much. Once your accuracy starts falling off from a dirty barrel, get out the cleaning supplies. Make sure to fire a fouling shot afterwards.
Other than that, eddybo nailed it in that you should always properly clean a barrel that's going to be sitting around.
-matt
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bonneville</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hi
i have had the oppertunity to measure many barrels in the resent past from various forces & the results have been quit shocking.
using simple run gauges it is possible to monitor the ammount of carbon & copper build up.
the results from this have shown that in this case 7.62 barrels have closed up in opperation by more than 0.015mm at the throat but remain near original size at the muzzle.
</div></div>
Fill out your profile and tell us a little more about yourself.
Who, When, Why, Where and How you developed this info would help us in determining your credibility.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bonneville</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hi
i have had the oppertunity to measure many barrels in the resent past from various forces & the results have been quit shocking.
using simple run gauges it is possible to monitor the ammount of carbon & copper build up.
the results from this have shown that in this case 7.62 barrels have closed up in opperation by more than 0.015mm at the throat but remain near original size at the muzzle.
</div></div>
Fill out your profile and tell us a little more about yourself.
Who, When, Why, Where and How you developed this info would help us in determining your credibility.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
profile updated.
not too much info but location may help.
profile updated.
not too much info but location may help.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I clean all my centerfire rifles after each range session. I oil the barrels, then I put them away......I just choose to do it more often, not because of accuracy, but because of the potential for bore deterioration associated with corrosion......Do the same with a modern centerfire, put it away uncleaned for a couple of weeks, and I'd rather not answer your ad when you find out what happens.
Do what you think makes sense, but if some of our folks decide to take chances with cleaning/not cleaning, and they end up with pitted bores, I'm not going to be able to do much to help anyone after that fact.
Greg</div></div>
+100
I think I read somewhere once that the USMC snipers are taught to clean their bores after every shoot on three consecutive days?
I'm not convinced by the argument that over-cleaning harms the barrel...unless maybe the cleaning is done incorrectly (wrong tools, mixing solvents, not drying or oiling etc.)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I clean all my centerfire rifles after each range session. I oil the barrels, then I put them away......I just choose to do it more often, not because of accuracy, but because of the potential for bore deterioration associated with corrosion......Do the same with a modern centerfire, put it away uncleaned for a couple of weeks, and I'd rather not answer your ad when you find out what happens.
Do what you think makes sense, but if some of our folks decide to take chances with cleaning/not cleaning, and they end up with pitted bores, I'm not going to be able to do much to help anyone after that fact.
Greg</div></div>
+100
I think I read somewhere once that the USMC snipers are taught to clean their bores after every shoot on three consecutive days?
I'm not convinced by the argument that over-cleaning harms the barrel...unless maybe the cleaning is done incorrectly (wrong tools, mixing solvents, not drying or oiling etc.)
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bonneville</div><div class="ubbcode-body">profile updated.
not too much info but location may help.
</div></div>
Hello Bonneville. I get the implication of the location. Confirmation that your profession and the location are linked to a well known UK manufacturer could help convince the sceptics here.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bonneville</div><div class="ubbcode-body">profile updated.
not too much info but location may help.
</div></div>
Hello Bonneville. I get the implication of the location. Confirmation that your profession and the location are linked to a well known UK manufacturer could help convince the sceptics here.....
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
YOU NEVER HKOW WHO YOUR STANDING NEXT TO AT THE BAR
YOU NEVER HKOW WHO YOUR STANDING NEXT TO AT THE BAR
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think I read somewhere once that the USMC snipers are taught to clean their bores after every shoot on three consecutive days?
I'm not convinced by the argument that over-cleaning harms the barrel...unless maybe the cleaning is done incorrectly (wrong tools, mixing solvents, not drying or oiling etc.)
</div></div>
That was pretty much a standard Marine Corps procedure on personal weapons. M16's were scrubbed until there was no parkerizing on the barrels and the crowns were gouged with steel cleaning rods until they shined brightly.
The M40A1'a WERE cleaned after every field op or shooting day. They were "cleaned" on three consecutive days this usually amounted to running a patch down the bore and talking shit for a couple hours.
This wasn't done because it was a good idea. It was done because the brass wanted it done and Marines follow orders.
We also didn't use Bore Guides and my M40A1 was issued with segmented brass rods.
Hopefully procedure has changed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think I read somewhere once that the USMC snipers are taught to clean their bores after every shoot on three consecutive days?
I'm not convinced by the argument that over-cleaning harms the barrel...unless maybe the cleaning is done incorrectly (wrong tools, mixing solvents, not drying or oiling etc.)
</div></div>
That was pretty much a standard Marine Corps procedure on personal weapons. M16's were scrubbed until there was no parkerizing on the barrels and the crowns were gouged with steel cleaning rods until they shined brightly.
The M40A1'a WERE cleaned after every field op or shooting day. They were "cleaned" on three consecutive days this usually amounted to running a patch down the bore and talking shit for a couple hours.
This wasn't done because it was a good idea. It was done because the brass wanted it done and Marines follow orders.
We also didn't use Bore Guides and my M40A1 was issued with segmented brass rods.
Hopefully procedure has changed.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
Springfield XD9, run it dirty, its combat plastic and will function clean or dirty. I went 1000s before cleaning my XDs
Ruger 10/22 I got mine in 66, its rusty, dinged, put some Breakfree in the action. Awhile back my boys were putting 10 bricks through it one week the action got real gritty but squirts of BF kept it running, it does FTF at times, its old and abused. I have no idea the last time I cleaned the bore.
Remington 700 SPS Tactical, I have the Vermit but I beleive the bore shoots best when dirty. It took about 300 rounds to smooth it out and for the next 200 rounds my best groups ever. I cleaned it thoroughly with Butches and 15 stokes with a nylon brush then patched it and have yet to put many rounds down range for lack of funds and ammo but the accuracy is not what it was. Now, all I will do is wipe it down, wipe the off bolt and dab some grease on the lugs and near the handle.
Springfield XD9, run it dirty, its combat plastic and will function clean or dirty. I went 1000s before cleaning my XDs
Ruger 10/22 I got mine in 66, its rusty, dinged, put some Breakfree in the action. Awhile back my boys were putting 10 bricks through it one week the action got real gritty but squirts of BF kept it running, it does FTF at times, its old and abused. I have no idea the last time I cleaned the bore.
Remington 700 SPS Tactical, I have the Vermit but I beleive the bore shoots best when dirty. It took about 300 rounds to smooth it out and for the next 200 rounds my best groups ever. I cleaned it thoroughly with Butches and 15 stokes with a nylon brush then patched it and have yet to put many rounds down range for lack of funds and ammo but the accuracy is not what it was. Now, all I will do is wipe it down, wipe the off bolt and dab some grease on the lugs and near the handle.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think I read somewhere once that the USMC snipers are taught to clean their bores after every shoot on three consecutive days?
I'm not convinced by the argument that over-cleaning harms the barrel...unless maybe the cleaning is done incorrectly (wrong tools, mixing solvents, not drying or oiling etc.)
</div></div>
That was pretty much a standard Marine Corps procedure on personal weapons. M16's were scrubbed until there was no parkerizing on the barrels and the crowns were gouged with steel cleaning rods until they shined brightly.
The M40A1'a WERE cleaned after every field op or shooting day. They were "cleaned" on three consecutive days this usually amounted to running a patch down the bore and talking shit for a couple hours.
This wasn't done because it was a good idea. It was done because the brass wanted it done and Marines follow orders.
We also didn't use Bore Guides and my M40A1 was issued with segmented brass rods.
Hopefully procedure has changed. </div></div>
LOL! That's exactly how I remember it. Brand new M4A1's and M249's scrubbed until they were silver....... then painted with black stove paint... What the Heck?!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think I read somewhere once that the USMC snipers are taught to clean their bores after every shoot on three consecutive days?
I'm not convinced by the argument that over-cleaning harms the barrel...unless maybe the cleaning is done incorrectly (wrong tools, mixing solvents, not drying or oiling etc.)
</div></div>
That was pretty much a standard Marine Corps procedure on personal weapons. M16's were scrubbed until there was no parkerizing on the barrels and the crowns were gouged with steel cleaning rods until they shined brightly.
The M40A1'a WERE cleaned after every field op or shooting day. They were "cleaned" on three consecutive days this usually amounted to running a patch down the bore and talking shit for a couple hours.
This wasn't done because it was a good idea. It was done because the brass wanted it done and Marines follow orders.
We also didn't use Bore Guides and my M40A1 was issued with segmented brass rods.
Hopefully procedure has changed. </div></div>
LOL! That's exactly how I remember it. Brand new M4A1's and M249's scrubbed until they were silver....... then painted with black stove paint... What the Heck?!
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
A lot of that three day tradition hearkens back to corrosive primers and their lingering effect on barrel steel. The potassium chlorate salts would leach out and pit the bore unless all cleaned out. Don't have that problem with most modern primers.
A lot of that three day tradition hearkens back to corrosive primers and their lingering effect on barrel steel. The potassium chlorate salts would leach out and pit the bore unless all cleaned out. Don't have that problem with most modern primers.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
Three days. Yep, M14/PI/training regimen. Segmented rods, no bore guides, and cleaning from the muzzle. Soon as we escaped the training loop, we learned about converting a fired 12Ga hull into an M14 Muzzle/Bore Guide.
Three days, more than just a wives' tale.
Firing drives crud and gas into the crystalline structure of the barrel steel. It slowly escapes over several days, something like tiny champagne corks popping. The net effect is sorta like Gremlins, the bore that was clean yesterday stains a patch today.
It can be fascinating, frustrating, and confusing. It has a logical basis. Whether one wishes to accommodate it is a personal choice, but I think it's not a terrible idea, assuming one is reasonable and relatively gentle in one's approch.
Greg
Three days. Yep, M14/PI/training regimen. Segmented rods, no bore guides, and cleaning from the muzzle. Soon as we escaped the training loop, we learned about converting a fired 12Ga hull into an M14 Muzzle/Bore Guide.
Three days, more than just a wives' tale.
Firing drives crud and gas into the crystalline structure of the barrel steel. It slowly escapes over several days, something like tiny champagne corks popping. The net effect is sorta like Gremlins, the bore that was clean yesterday stains a patch today.
It can be fascinating, frustrating, and confusing. It has a logical basis. Whether one wishes to accommodate it is a personal choice, but I think it's not a terrible idea, assuming one is reasonable and relatively gentle in one's approch.
Greg
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
What about brush use, which I haven't heard much of so far- I'm using an Otis kit which makes plenty of claims of non-harming components. Thoughts?
What about brush use, which I haven't heard much of so far- I'm using an Otis kit which makes plenty of claims of non-harming components. Thoughts?
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I happen to be one of those "clean after every use" kind of guys.
In addition to the above conversation, I like to leave my bore wet with Hoppes #9 and come back in a week (or so) with the barrel in a horizontal position (in a gun case) and push out the crud with a patch, if it comes out green, it gets wetted agian and I come back in another week, until it doesn't (or until it gets shot again).
If you foolow this regimin, or leave the bore oiled, then a cuple of dry patches before any shooting is advised.
I happen to be one of those "clean after every use" kind of guys.
In addition to the above conversation, I like to leave my bore wet with Hoppes #9 and come back in a week (or so) with the barrel in a horizontal position (in a gun case) and push out the crud with a patch, if it comes out green, it gets wetted agian and I come back in another week, until it doesn't (or until it gets shot again).
If you foolow this regimin, or leave the bore oiled, then a cuple of dry patches before any shooting is advised.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Firing drives crud and gas into the crystalline structure of the barrel steel. It slowly escapes over several days, something like tiny champagne corks popping. The net effect is sorta like Gremlins, the bore that was clean yesterday stains a patch today.
Greg</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I happen to be one of those "clean after every use" kind of guys.
</div></div>
+1000 on Greg and Mitch's comments.
I clean after every shoot, leave for a couple of days to a week, then clean again and oil and dry the bore with a patch just prior to shooting again.
Only thing I've changed in the last year is the move to Wipeout's Patch Out. I only get the brushes out after every three or four shoots and then nylon, not bronze.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Firing drives crud and gas into the crystalline structure of the barrel steel. It slowly escapes over several days, something like tiny champagne corks popping. The net effect is sorta like Gremlins, the bore that was clean yesterday stains a patch today.
Greg</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I happen to be one of those "clean after every use" kind of guys.
</div></div>
+1000 on Greg and Mitch's comments.
I clean after every shoot, leave for a couple of days to a week, then clean again and oil and dry the bore with a patch just prior to shooting again.
Only thing I've changed in the last year is the move to Wipeout's Patch Out. I only get the brushes out after every three or four shoots and then nylon, not bronze.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I find that with Outer's Foaming Bore cleaner, I don't seem to need brushes to get clean patches. Two or three soaks git 'er done with my factory barrels, and my L-W stainless barrel is somewhere around (I'm guessing, but that's based on empty Sierra boxes) 800-1000rd, and has only seen the brush for one session, somewhere back around 500rd. My barrels sometimes get treated to borescoping, maybe a couple of times a year, and this indicates that bores are clean, and cleaning damage is not apparent.
Post cleaning applications of Hoppe's #9 powder solvent are also among my techniques for slow soaking any potential residual deposits. These applications follow instructions right on the bottle.
Greg
I find that with Outer's Foaming Bore cleaner, I don't seem to need brushes to get clean patches. Two or three soaks git 'er done with my factory barrels, and my L-W stainless barrel is somewhere around (I'm guessing, but that's based on empty Sierra boxes) 800-1000rd, and has only seen the brush for one session, somewhere back around 500rd. My barrels sometimes get treated to borescoping, maybe a couple of times a year, and this indicates that bores are clean, and cleaning damage is not apparent.
Post cleaning applications of Hoppe's #9 powder solvent are also among my techniques for slow soaking any potential residual deposits. These applications follow instructions right on the bottle.
Greg
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find that with Outer's Foaming Bore cleaner, I don't seem to need brushes to get clean patches.
Greg</div></div>
If the truth be told Greg, I probably don't need the brushes either but old habits die hard.....
Apart from the above, when I first got my KAR 98K the bore was black so I used a chamber plug and soaked the bore with Hoppes #9 Copper Solvent for 24 hours then gave it a good scrub out...it came back a treat after that! So I'd say I'm not entirley done with the brushes yet!
)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find that with Outer's Foaming Bore cleaner, I don't seem to need brushes to get clean patches.
Greg</div></div>
If the truth be told Greg, I probably don't need the brushes either but old habits die hard.....
Apart from the above, when I first got my KAR 98K the bore was black so I used a chamber plug and soaked the bore with Hoppes #9 Copper Solvent for 24 hours then gave it a good scrub out...it came back a treat after that! So I'd say I'm not entirley done with the brushes yet!
)Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I clean my rifles after each range trip, my question is always when is the barrel clean enough?? Lets say five patches gets 90%, the next 10 or 15 patchs gets 5% and it takes another 20 patches to get it spotless. Is it worth the last 20 Patches???
I struggle with this every time I clean.
I clean my rifles after each range trip, my question is always when is the barrel clean enough?? Lets say five patches gets 90%, the next 10 or 15 patchs gets 5% and it takes another 20 patches to get it spotless. Is it worth the last 20 Patches???
I struggle with this every time I clean.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
Soak more, patch less.
I usually soak twice, 3 patches each soak, then put 'er away for a day or three, and repeat the process.
Anything that's left after that coexists very nicely under a coat of oil.
I patch some of the oil out just before firing (I use a very lightly oiled patch for this), and don't really believe in cleaning to an infinitely immaculate state, or firing with an absolutely dry bore.
Never found a solvent/cleaner that left borescope-visible bore damage after overnight soaking, but to be safer, I try to confine such soaks to Hoppe's #9 powder solvent and/or the Outer's Foam.
Greg
Soak more, patch less.
I usually soak twice, 3 patches each soak, then put 'er away for a day or three, and repeat the process.
Anything that's left after that coexists very nicely under a coat of oil.
I patch some of the oil out just before firing (I use a very lightly oiled patch for this), and don't really believe in cleaning to an infinitely immaculate state, or firing with an absolutely dry bore.
Never found a solvent/cleaner that left borescope-visible bore damage after overnight soaking, but to be safer, I try to confine such soaks to Hoppe's #9 powder solvent and/or the Outer's Foam.
Greg
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
Greg Langelius, can you share how you make a field expediant M14/M1A bore guide out of a fired 12 Ga hull?
Thanks.
Greg Langelius, can you share how you make a field expediant M14/M1A bore guide out of a fired 12 Ga hull?
Thanks.
Re: To clean or not to clean.. Is there a true ans
I'm sold on the Foam cleaners. I have to admit I'm a recovering over cleaner, and it would frustrate me silly that I'd get done with a range day, come home, use something like hoppes or butch's for the powder with a few brass brush strokes. Then move on to a copper solvent like sweets, and just soak and patch. It would take forever to get the copper out.
So I tried the same procedure only after the powder cleaning I used knockout foam cleaner. Let it sit 30 minutes and copper was gone in one shot. Sold me on it. I was skeptical enough that I even went back to butches on a copper brush to see if somehow it had just discolored the copper in the barrel, but it was gone. I doubt it's any harder on the barrel than the harsh ammonia cleaners.
Once that's done I run a patch of rust prevent down the tube and then a dry patch.
Almost no smell, almost no fuss, less worries about what you get it on aside your barrel than the harsh ammonia stuff.
I'm sold on the Foam cleaners. I have to admit I'm a recovering over cleaner, and it would frustrate me silly that I'd get done with a range day, come home, use something like hoppes or butch's for the powder with a few brass brush strokes. Then move on to a copper solvent like sweets, and just soak and patch. It would take forever to get the copper out.
So I tried the same procedure only after the powder cleaning I used knockout foam cleaner. Let it sit 30 minutes and copper was gone in one shot. Sold me on it. I was skeptical enough that I even went back to butches on a copper brush to see if somehow it had just discolored the copper in the barrel, but it was gone. I doubt it's any harder on the barrel than the harsh ammonia cleaners.
Once that's done I run a patch of rust prevent down the tube and then a dry patch.
Almost no smell, almost no fuss, less worries about what you get it on aside your barrel than the harsh ammonia stuff.
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