Ok I am starting to get a bit more serious about my long range work and have been drawn towards two rifles. The Howa Axiom and the FN PBR. I have read allot of good things about both. I have also read a ton of good things on the 700 series of course. I have a savage .243 atm and I like it but want to step into the .308 game. Am I being stupid and should I just stick with something like the XCR or will these other two rifles be a decent entry level rig that I can get some distance and consistency with. I have told myself if I can achieve some decent 1000m accuracy and have fun some doing it I will upgrade to a more serious rig when my wallet and skills will allow. Suggestions are much apprecieated thanks!
Torn between 2 guns
- Thread starter Blazed30
- Start date
Re: Torn between 2 guns
I would recommend a 700 SPS Tactical or varmint. Cheap entry and plenty off aftermarket gear to upgrade with.
I would recommend a 700 SPS Tactical or varmint. Cheap entry and plenty off aftermarket gear to upgrade with.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage.
why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broylz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage. </div></div>
I figured after the cost of the rebarrel and the bolt I would be into it almost to have just bought a new rifle of course without the glass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broylz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage. </div></div>
I figured after the cost of the rebarrel and the bolt I would be into it almost to have just bought a new rifle of course without the glass.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
I've never shot an FN, but I did buy my wife a sporter barrel Howa and I really like it. Out of the box it was a 1 MOA gun until I put a bipod on the Hogue stock which opened it up a bit. Most of my experience has been with M700 actions or clones but I will be buying more Howas in the future.
Steve
I've never shot an FN, but I did buy my wife a sporter barrel Howa and I really like it. Out of the box it was a 1 MOA gun until I put a bipod on the Hogue stock which opened it up a bit. Most of my experience has been with M700 actions or clones but I will be buying more Howas in the future.
Steve
Re: Torn between 2 guns
Thats good to hear there is a local deal available for a 1500 new in the box for 500 I came across. My orignal thoughts were to buy it shoot it and pick up and replace the laminate stock at a later date. If I was going to go that route.
Thats good to hear there is a local deal available for a 1500 new in the box for 500 I came across. My orignal thoughts were to buy it shoot it and pick up and replace the laminate stock at a later date. If I was going to go that route.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joker31</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broylz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage. </div></div>
I figured after the cost of the rebarrel and the bolt I would be into it almost to have just bought a new rifle of course without the glass. </div></div>
Is it some special case on your 243? 308 and 243 are the same case.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joker31</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broylz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage. </div></div>
I figured after the cost of the rebarrel and the bolt I would be into it almost to have just bought a new rifle of course without the glass. </div></div>
Is it some special case on your 243? 308 and 243 are the same case.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
atm? (at the moment?)
.243, .308. 7-08, <span style="font-style: italic">and .260</span> all use the .308 parent case. No bolt head replacement needed. Here are some barrel choices, ready to mount, and prices. Note, these are BR grade premium barrels. I have a pair of the 28" .260 Rem and <span style="font-style: italic">absolutely</span> recommend them.
Greg
atm? (at the moment?)
.243, .308. 7-08, <span style="font-style: italic">and .260</span> all use the .308 parent case. No bolt head replacement needed. Here are some barrel choices, ready to mount, and prices. Note, these are BR grade premium barrels. I have a pair of the 28" .260 Rem and <span style="font-style: italic">absolutely</span> recommend them.
Greg
Re: Torn between 2 guns
i didnt realise the 243 was 308 based. a simple barrel swap would be half the cost or less of a new rifle and you would get a much better barrel. i was looking at the lothar walther barrels linked above when i was planning a savage build.
i didnt realise the 243 was 308 based. a simple barrel swap would be half the cost or less of a new rifle and you would get a much better barrel. i was looking at the lothar walther barrels linked above when i was planning a savage build.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
Why do you want to go from 243 to 308? If you reload, 243 will serve you better out to 1K than 308.
Why do you want to go from 243 to 308? If you reload, 243 will serve you better out to 1K than 308.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
I have to agree with USMCJ on this one.
I used to run a .243 before I went 6.5 the 243 is awesome compared to a .308.
You should get a faster twist and shoot the 115 DTAC. Or you might be able to shoot the 105 Amax in your factory barrel.
I used to run the 105 Amax it was great. Killed lots of whitetails past 400yds with it last season and lots of steel to 1k.
IMHO you are going backwards moving to the .308 if you re load.
Good luck.
I have to agree with USMCJ on this one.
I used to run a .243 before I went 6.5 the 243 is awesome compared to a .308.
You should get a faster twist and shoot the 115 DTAC. Or you might be able to shoot the 105 Amax in your factory barrel.
I used to run the 105 Amax it was great. Killed lots of whitetails past 400yds with it last season and lots of steel to 1k.
IMHO you are going backwards moving to the .308 if you re load.
Good luck.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
I dont reload yet, also I wanted to step up to the .308 for the big game possibilities of it as well. At some point here in the near future I would like to go Elk hunting. Also isnt the .308 a bit easier on the barrel compared to the .243 i always read that barrel life on a .243 was around 2k?
I dont reload yet, also I wanted to step up to the .308 for the big game possibilities of it as well. At some point here in the near future I would like to go Elk hunting. Also isnt the .308 a bit easier on the barrel compared to the .243 i always read that barrel life on a .243 was around 2k?
Re: Torn between 2 guns
308 will last longer, but you already have the 243. Shot it out and then replace the barrel. If you want to shoot "big game" buy a pre-fit Savage barrel from Shilen or other barrel makers that offer them and just swap out the barrels as required. That is the very nice aspect of the Savage. Barrel changes are a piece of cake and the performance is fantastic. All you need is an action wrench/barrel vise and barrel nut wrench. Head spacing is easy enough to set. No brainer to me.
308 will last longer, but you already have the 243. Shot it out and then replace the barrel. If you want to shoot "big game" buy a pre-fit Savage barrel from Shilen or other barrel makers that offer them and just swap out the barrels as required. That is the very nice aspect of the Savage. Barrel changes are a piece of cake and the performance is fantastic. All you need is an action wrench/barrel vise and barrel nut wrench. Head spacing is easy enough to set. No brainer to me.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
If elk is in the cards I would choose 7-08 over a 308. .243 has killed a lot of elk but bullet placement is a little more critical than with a heavier bullet. The 7mm bullets offer some really fantastic BC's, and it still retains the same bolt head you are currently using.
If elk is in the cards I would choose 7-08 over a 308. .243 has killed a lot of elk but bullet placement is a little more critical than with a heavier bullet. The 7mm bullets offer some really fantastic BC's, and it still retains the same bolt head you are currently using.
Re: Torn between 2 guns
The basic Howa is a good platform, but that Axiom version is not. You would be better off with an aftermarket stock upgrade. The standard Hogue stock that they come with is usable. The PBR is also a good platform. It comes with a better Hogue stock than the Howa.
Your Savage has the potential for long range work if you plan to reload. If you are serious about getting into the sport, then reloading should be on your to-do list. If not, I agree that a 308 would be a better choice due to the availability of over the counter match ammo.
In that case, I would recommend starting with a Remington SPS Tactical or long barrel and replacing the stock, or better yet...find a 5R and you will be ready to shoot out of the box.
Any of these platforms will end up costing about the same, so you might as well go with the best option, and if you decide to sell it down the line, you will be closer to breaking even.
TC
The basic Howa is a good platform, but that Axiom version is not. You would be better off with an aftermarket stock upgrade. The standard Hogue stock that they come with is usable. The PBR is also a good platform. It comes with a better Hogue stock than the Howa.
Your Savage has the potential for long range work if you plan to reload. If you are serious about getting into the sport, then reloading should be on your to-do list. If not, I agree that a 308 would be a better choice due to the availability of over the counter match ammo.
In that case, I would recommend starting with a Remington SPS Tactical or long barrel and replacing the stock, or better yet...find a 5R and you will be ready to shoot out of the box.
Any of these platforms will end up costing about the same, so you might as well go with the best option, and if you decide to sell it down the line, you will be closer to breaking even.
TC
Re: Torn between 2 guns
Thanks for all the great advice and info guys I very much appreciate it. Oh and i dont know who found my pic from the 4th grade that was scary what a flashback. Again thanks I do plan on reloading and I now have allot to think about. Looks like my .243 will be the easiest way to go and can leave me money to start reloading I have been procrastinating about it forever.
Again thank you all!
Thanks for all the great advice and info guys I very much appreciate it. Oh and i dont know who found my pic from the 4th grade that was scary what a flashback. Again thanks I do plan on reloading and I now have allot to think about. Looks like my .243 will be the easiest way to go and can leave me money to start reloading I have been procrastinating about it forever.
Again thank you all!
Re: Torn between 2 guns
Yes, the .243 is better than the .308. Personally, I would put it toward the overbore end of the spectrum, with the .260 and 7-08 being closer to center. IMHO, the .260's trajectory improvement over the .308 is similar in a lot of ways to the improvement of the .30-'06 over the .308, without the additional energy and recoil being brought to the equation. While maybe not as much as the .30-'06, the .260 also delivers more energy at longer distances than the .308. Given my druthers, I'd choose the .260 over the 7-08, but the main reason is not performance, it's a more varied bullet selection.
BTW, a 7mm-<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">06</span></span> is a .280 Rem. I've been load testing one with 120gr 7mm Nosler Ballistic Tips in a factory stock Ruger 77 MKI V, and finding that the accuracy is surprising. Recoil is on a par with a .30-'06 shooting 150gr's, but these babies are getting up to around 3100-3200fps as opposed to regular .30-'06 velocities.
Talk about giving a 'Chuckie a colossally bad day way out there in the hinterlands...
While the .280 and 7mm chamberings are not on the L-W list of finished Savage barrels, the 7-08, and .280 Rem are on their reamer list and these chamberings all use the same .473" nominal bolt face diameter as the .308. I am virtually certain you could get a 28" finished Savage barrel in any of these chamberings from them, and prices should be roughly on a par.
One final note about 'long action chamberings' in a short action. While it's true they won't work in a magazine, they will still chamber fine as a manually single fed cartridge. They won't eject an unfired cartridge in their normal configuration, but in those rare instances where that would be needed, you just pop the bolt release, withdraw the bolt a tad further, and <span style="font-style: italic">Voila</span>, ejection is achieved. I find that fired '06 length case eject just fine from a short action.
But the real answer is to do your switch barrel build on a long action. Savage sells them separately.
Greg
Yes, the .243 is better than the .308. Personally, I would put it toward the overbore end of the spectrum, with the .260 and 7-08 being closer to center. IMHO, the .260's trajectory improvement over the .308 is similar in a lot of ways to the improvement of the .30-'06 over the .308, without the additional energy and recoil being brought to the equation. While maybe not as much as the .30-'06, the .260 also delivers more energy at longer distances than the .308. Given my druthers, I'd choose the .260 over the 7-08, but the main reason is not performance, it's a more varied bullet selection.
BTW, a 7mm-<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">06</span></span> is a .280 Rem. I've been load testing one with 120gr 7mm Nosler Ballistic Tips in a factory stock Ruger 77 MKI V, and finding that the accuracy is surprising. Recoil is on a par with a .30-'06 shooting 150gr's, but these babies are getting up to around 3100-3200fps as opposed to regular .30-'06 velocities.
Talk about giving a 'Chuckie a colossally bad day way out there in the hinterlands...
While the .280 and 7mm chamberings are not on the L-W list of finished Savage barrels, the 7-08, and .280 Rem are on their reamer list and these chamberings all use the same .473" nominal bolt face diameter as the .308. I am virtually certain you could get a 28" finished Savage barrel in any of these chamberings from them, and prices should be roughly on a par.
One final note about 'long action chamberings' in a short action. While it's true they won't work in a magazine, they will still chamber fine as a manually single fed cartridge. They won't eject an unfired cartridge in their normal configuration, but in those rare instances where that would be needed, you just pop the bolt release, withdraw the bolt a tad further, and <span style="font-style: italic">Voila</span>, ejection is achieved. I find that fired '06 length case eject just fine from a short action.
But the real answer is to do your switch barrel build on a long action. Savage sells them separately.
Greg
Re: Torn between 2 guns
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broylz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage. </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broylz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not just rebarrel the savage and get a new bolt head for it. should be able to swap it out at home in a few minutes with a barrel nut wrench. thats a good side to having a savage. </div></div>
+1
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