Good evening, I'd like some advice from people on my situation. The extent of my fitness regimine is a mix of cardio and running, weights on and off, and body weight excercises. I try to eat three squares a day such as Breakfast: oatmeal, apple with peanut butter, lunch: salad or turkey sandwhich with no sauces, dinner: some kind of meat (lean preferrably), green beans, and mashed potatoes. Pretty typical. 4 days a week I run 2.5 miles at a 7-8 min pace immediately followed by 3 sets of 12 pull ups, 3 sets of pushups to failure, 30 tire flips (tractor tire), three sets of 10 chin ups, and ab planks. On off days I do an hour of combatives or trail/obstacle course run. A month and a half ago I weighed 209 (5ft 11in) my bench was up to 225 (three sets of 12) and I was really into lifting. Great for combatives, aweful for my run. Now i turned a corner and am going for leanness and speed. I leave for flight school in the AF in August. I have dropped to about 193 now. I can run farther faster now and my sprints have come back but I still want to maintain my strength if I can. Problem is this, I feel like the harder I run or cardio, I feel my strength and size vanish. Is the cardio forcing my body to eat my muscle when I train above my target heart rate? It's like I can get my upper body big, or I can shrink my waist. But not both together. Any advice on diet or workouts to help me achieve this? Thanks much.
- Thread starter AU27
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Re: Trading off muscle?
From what you have posted I don't think you eating enough. If you don't have some fat stores to burn and run like you do where is the fuel comming from?If you don't eat how are you going to perform? First what is your BMI measured %?Balance diet has about 25-30% fat(mostly unsaturated) same in protein and working out hard you can bump that and the rest is carbs(fresh veggies,complex stuff).Stay away from processed crap and sweets. That is probably not a problem for you. What you have posted doesn't look like that.Do you have access to a professional trainer?Good luck in school
From what you have posted I don't think you eating enough. If you don't have some fat stores to burn and run like you do where is the fuel comming from?If you don't eat how are you going to perform? First what is your BMI measured %?Balance diet has about 25-30% fat(mostly unsaturated) same in protein and working out hard you can bump that and the rest is carbs(fresh veggies,complex stuff).Stay away from processed crap and sweets. That is probably not a problem for you. What you have posted doesn't look like that.Do you have access to a professional trainer?Good luck in school
Re: Trading off muscle?
Eat much more chow!!!
Eat much more chow!!!
Re: Trading off muscle?
My p trainer wife says the cardio will make you leaner and appear smaller. You probably could use more lean protein in between meals. And good fat is a must. But when you reach your goal weight you can always back off the cardio and concentrate on weights harder again. Sounds like you are young so it should be easy to build back lean muscle with not too much effort.
My p trainer wife says the cardio will make you leaner and appear smaller. You probably could use more lean protein in between meals. And good fat is a must. But when you reach your goal weight you can always back off the cardio and concentrate on weights harder again. Sounds like you are young so it should be easy to build back lean muscle with not too much effort.
Re: Trading off muscle?
try eating more as per above and Tabata Protocol intervals instead of running for such long periods.
I've flown a lot of high G stuff and I needed strength more than I needed endurance. Being able to clamp down your neck, back, and stomach to keep awake got easier with added strength for me.
try eating more as per above and Tabata Protocol intervals instead of running for such long periods.
I've flown a lot of high G stuff and I needed strength more than I needed endurance. Being able to clamp down your neck, back, and stomach to keep awake got easier with added strength for me.
Re: Trading off muscle?
The run is depleting your body of glycogen , also your "weight" training is not geared toward strength gain.
1) decrease your reps during weights , focus on explosive positive movements and controlled negative , use a weight you can only get 4-5 reps and add two sets , do your reps to failure
2) do your running and cardio AFTER your strength training , with will both aid in getting stronger due to not pre depleting the body and aid in fat loss as the body is depleted of glycogen needed for the run so it will look to other sources for energy , fat and protein (muscle) so make sure that your getting enough protein in so that the body won't scavenge the muscle for needed energy.
3) eat more !!! Your not getting nearly enough cals for your body not to get catabolic , add some protein to EVERY meal and maybe a small shake between meals.
The run is depleting your body of glycogen , also your "weight" training is not geared toward strength gain.
1) decrease your reps during weights , focus on explosive positive movements and controlled negative , use a weight you can only get 4-5 reps and add two sets , do your reps to failure
2) do your running and cardio AFTER your strength training , with will both aid in getting stronger due to not pre depleting the body and aid in fat loss as the body is depleted of glycogen needed for the run so it will look to other sources for energy , fat and protein (muscle) so make sure that your getting enough protein in so that the body won't scavenge the muscle for needed energy.
3) eat more !!! Your not getting nearly enough cals for your body not to get catabolic , add some protein to EVERY meal and maybe a small shake between meals.
Re: Trading off muscle?
Thanks a ton for the nutrition advice. I've never had a whole lot of expereince outside of being raised to "eat right." As for the weight training, from last november till this past april is when I was living in the weightroom. Since graduation, I haven't been back. Only doing body weight excercises at this point. The lightening myself up when all the weightroom muscle came off really helped improve my runs. I'd really like to get into crossfit style workouts or P90x but live in an apartment with zero extra space, a paper thin floor under my feet(noise complaints), and minimal funds to play around with till I leave on orders. I'd like to maximize upper body strength, keep my waist small, and not lose my running ability. The diet tips hopefully will help alot. Now just need to figure out my workouts better. They work ok so far, but its something I just put together, nothing professional haha.
Thanks a ton for the nutrition advice. I've never had a whole lot of expereince outside of being raised to "eat right." As for the weight training, from last november till this past april is when I was living in the weightroom. Since graduation, I haven't been back. Only doing body weight excercises at this point. The lightening myself up when all the weightroom muscle came off really helped improve my runs. I'd really like to get into crossfit style workouts or P90x but live in an apartment with zero extra space, a paper thin floor under my feet(noise complaints), and minimal funds to play around with till I leave on orders. I'd like to maximize upper body strength, keep my waist small, and not lose my running ability. The diet tips hopefully will help alot. Now just need to figure out my workouts better. They work ok so far, but its something I just put together, nothing professional haha.
Re: Trading off muscle?
What you are trying to do is very difficult to achieve. Only a few gifted with good genetics can build muscle and loose fat at the same time. The other way is to do hormone treatment or hgh.
I found it best to concentrate on building muscle or loosing fat. The reason is that cardio trainning is counter productive to building muscle. It will kill your muscles.
I recommend weight trainning first while eatting 3-4k calories a day.
When your happy with the amount of muscles you have, then do cardio exercises with high intensity weight trainning. You must keep a strict clean diet of around 1,500-2,000 calories a day to achieve your goal.
What you are trying to do is very difficult to achieve. Only a few gifted with good genetics can build muscle and loose fat at the same time. The other way is to do hormone treatment or hgh.
I found it best to concentrate on building muscle or loosing fat. The reason is that cardio trainning is counter productive to building muscle. It will kill your muscles.
I recommend weight trainning first while eatting 3-4k calories a day.
When your happy with the amount of muscles you have, then do cardio exercises with high intensity weight trainning. You must keep a strict clean diet of around 1,500-2,000 calories a day to achieve your goal.
Re: Trading off muscle?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pistolpete75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you are trying to do is very difficult to achieve. Only a few gifted with good genetics can build muscle and loose fat at the same time. The other way is to do hormone treatment or hgh.
I found it best to concentrate on building muscle or loosing fat. The reason is that cardio trainning is counter productive to building muscle. It will kill your muscles.
I recommend weight trainning first while eatting 3-4k calories a day.
When your happy with the amount of muscles you have, then do cardio exercises with high intensity weight trainning. You must keep a strict clean diet of around 1,500-2,000 calories a day to achieve your goal.
</div></div>
That is not totaly true , while good genes and or aditional hormones do help it boils down to proper nutrition.
If your taking in more calories (via improper macro balance) a day than you expend (surplus) then you will gain "weight" this will be a combo of both muscle and fat because the body will store whats not being used and the muscles dont store much so then fat cells are used
If you take in less calories via (improper macro balance)than you expend (defecet)you will lose "weight" this weoight loss will be both fat and muscle if the macro nutrients are not properly selected.
It is perfectly possible for ANYBODY to build lean mass and reduce bodyfat NATURALY if the right foods and training are used.
you do not have to be a calorie surplus to build muscle only a nutrient surplus
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pistolpete75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you are trying to do is very difficult to achieve. Only a few gifted with good genetics can build muscle and loose fat at the same time. The other way is to do hormone treatment or hgh.
I found it best to concentrate on building muscle or loosing fat. The reason is that cardio trainning is counter productive to building muscle. It will kill your muscles.
I recommend weight trainning first while eatting 3-4k calories a day.
When your happy with the amount of muscles you have, then do cardio exercises with high intensity weight trainning. You must keep a strict clean diet of around 1,500-2,000 calories a day to achieve your goal.
</div></div>
That is not totaly true , while good genes and or aditional hormones do help it boils down to proper nutrition.
If your taking in more calories (via improper macro balance) a day than you expend (surplus) then you will gain "weight" this will be a combo of both muscle and fat because the body will store whats not being used and the muscles dont store much so then fat cells are used
If you take in less calories via (improper macro balance)than you expend (defecet)you will lose "weight" this weoight loss will be both fat and muscle if the macro nutrients are not properly selected.
It is perfectly possible for ANYBODY to build lean mass and reduce bodyfat NATURALY if the right foods and training are used.
you do not have to be a calorie surplus to build muscle only a nutrient surplus
Re: Trading off muscle?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pistolpete75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you are trying to do is very difficult to achieve. Only a few gifted with good genetics can build muscle and loose fat at the same time. The other way is to do hormone treatment or hgh.
I found it best to concentrate on building muscle or loosing fat. The reason is that cardio trainning is counter productive to building muscle. It will kill your muscles.
I recommend weight trainning first while eatting 3-4k calories a day.
When your happy with the amount of muscles you have, then do cardio exercises with high intensity weight trainning. You must keep a strict clean diet of around 1,500-2,000 calories a day to achieve your goal.
</div></div>
That is not totaly true , while good genes and or aditional hormones do help it boils down to proper nutrition.
If your taking in more calories (via improper macro balance) a day than you expend (surplus) then you will gain "weight" this will be a combo of both muscle and fat because the body will store whats not being used and the muscles dont store much so then fat cells are used
If you take in less calories via (improper macro balance)than you expend (defecet)you will lose "weight" this weoight loss will be both fat and muscle if the macro nutrients are not properly selected.
It is perfectly possible for ANYBODY to build lean mass and reduce bodyfat NATURALY if the right foods and training are used.
you do not have to be a calorie surplus to build muscle only a nutrient surplus </div></div>
I'm talking about gainning significant muscle mass like a bodybuilder, not simply gainning lean muscle mass like a crossfit guy. I rather be pretty big with a 10% bodyfat, then just be cut up.
Intense cardio will kill muscle with or without the proper nutrition. It causes the body to go into a catabolic state. If your not doing any cardio or very little cardio (medium intensity, mayby one day a week, with a super clean 2k calorie diet, and heavy weight lifting), I can possibly see one staying lean and gainning a little muscle. I can do this, but it's quite hard to gain alot of muscle when doing this.
It's much more productive to do a gainning phase and a cutting phase, rather then try to have your cake and eat it too. Hard work, consistency, and a clean diet all come into play.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pistolpete75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you are trying to do is very difficult to achieve. Only a few gifted with good genetics can build muscle and loose fat at the same time. The other way is to do hormone treatment or hgh.
I found it best to concentrate on building muscle or loosing fat. The reason is that cardio trainning is counter productive to building muscle. It will kill your muscles.
I recommend weight trainning first while eatting 3-4k calories a day.
When your happy with the amount of muscles you have, then do cardio exercises with high intensity weight trainning. You must keep a strict clean diet of around 1,500-2,000 calories a day to achieve your goal.
</div></div>
That is not totaly true , while good genes and or aditional hormones do help it boils down to proper nutrition.
If your taking in more calories (via improper macro balance) a day than you expend (surplus) then you will gain "weight" this will be a combo of both muscle and fat because the body will store whats not being used and the muscles dont store much so then fat cells are used
If you take in less calories via (improper macro balance)than you expend (defecet)you will lose "weight" this weoight loss will be both fat and muscle if the macro nutrients are not properly selected.
It is perfectly possible for ANYBODY to build lean mass and reduce bodyfat NATURALY if the right foods and training are used.
you do not have to be a calorie surplus to build muscle only a nutrient surplus </div></div>
I'm talking about gainning significant muscle mass like a bodybuilder, not simply gainning lean muscle mass like a crossfit guy. I rather be pretty big with a 10% bodyfat, then just be cut up.
Intense cardio will kill muscle with or without the proper nutrition. It causes the body to go into a catabolic state. If your not doing any cardio or very little cardio (medium intensity, mayby one day a week, with a super clean 2k calorie diet, and heavy weight lifting), I can possibly see one staying lean and gainning a little muscle. I can do this, but it's quite hard to gain alot of muscle when doing this.
It's much more productive to do a gainning phase and a cutting phase, rather then try to have your cake and eat it too. Hard work, consistency, and a clean diet all come into play.
Re: Trading off muscle?
This is me at the end of my bulking phase from a few weeks ago. I'm was at 16% bodyfat there. I'm now at 14% bodyfat, and I'm looking to loose 8 more pounds to get to 200 lbs at 10%.
I'm not the biggest or strongest, but I'm proud of how far I came. I'm a hard gainner, so I'm proud from where I came from. I used to be 60 pounds less before I started weight trainning. I worked out 10 of the past 15 years as a hobby.
This is me at the end of my bulking phase from a few weeks ago. I'm was at 16% bodyfat there. I'm now at 14% bodyfat, and I'm looking to loose 8 more pounds to get to 200 lbs at 10%.
I'm not the biggest or strongest, but I'm proud of how far I came. I'm a hard gainner, so I'm proud from where I came from. I used to be 60 pounds less before I started weight trainning. I worked out 10 of the past 15 years as a hobby.
Re: Trading off muscle?
[/quote]
Problem is this, I feel like the harder I run or cardio, I feel my strength and size vanish. [/quote]
Catabolic state, and loss of muscle.
[/quote]
Problem is this, I feel like the harder I run or cardio, I feel my strength and size vanish. [/quote]
Catabolic state, and loss of muscle.
Re: Trading off muscle?
Running four times a week may be a bit excessive for your purpose. The AF pt test is 1.5 miles so running 2 is good, just pick up the pace a little. Try weighted lounges, great workout for strength, plus gets your heartrate up in a hurry. I feel like ive done sprints after each set. Im a natural runner so I dont focus on cardio, but strength and just by doing those leg workouts my 1.5 mile time has dropped. I do 3 sets of 30 reps with at least 110 lbs followed by two or more sets of squats ALL the way down and then calves. Also inclined pushups are good too. Whats your 1.5 mile run time? By the way congrats on the flight school, Ive been in for 5 years now, but different career field.
Running four times a week may be a bit excessive for your purpose. The AF pt test is 1.5 miles so running 2 is good, just pick up the pace a little. Try weighted lounges, great workout for strength, plus gets your heartrate up in a hurry. I feel like ive done sprints after each set. Im a natural runner so I dont focus on cardio, but strength and just by doing those leg workouts my 1.5 mile time has dropped. I do 3 sets of 30 reps with at least 110 lbs followed by two or more sets of squats ALL the way down and then calves. Also inclined pushups are good too. Whats your 1.5 mile run time? By the way congrats on the flight school, Ive been in for 5 years now, but different career field.
Re: Trading off muscle?
if all your training for is a mile and a half run then you cardio doesnt need to be super intense , i assume your just trying to get your time down??
hit your weight workout hard and intense , balls out for 30-40 min , then hop on the read mill and crank out your cardio. do a 15 min run as fast as you can keep it for 15 min and see how far that got you and adjust accordingly , each day try to beat that distance in the same time frame but don't go over 15 min , this short duration high intensity cardio will help to spare some muscle and will decrease your times without having to expend any more energy than needed.
Mix 20g BCAA's in a 20 oz G2 Gatorade and drink that during your weight training , the BCAA's will help keep you from getting catabolic during your workout and run , then drink a good shake post workout , 40-50g protein and 30-40g carbs.
The biggest thing to do and the hardest for most people is
<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">DO NOT OVERTRAIN</span></span>
only train every other day , or two on one off , if you don't give the body time to recover you can't effectivly make progeress
also make sure your getting plenty of protein , at least 1.5g per pound of body weight , if your only eating 3-4 meals a day have a small shake between them 20-30 gr protein , keep a positive nitrogen balance at all times this will kep the body anabolid at all times , worst case you end up wasting some protein and pissing it out , id rather do that than waiste muscle
if all your training for is a mile and a half run then you cardio doesnt need to be super intense , i assume your just trying to get your time down??
hit your weight workout hard and intense , balls out for 30-40 min , then hop on the read mill and crank out your cardio. do a 15 min run as fast as you can keep it for 15 min and see how far that got you and adjust accordingly , each day try to beat that distance in the same time frame but don't go over 15 min , this short duration high intensity cardio will help to spare some muscle and will decrease your times without having to expend any more energy than needed.
Mix 20g BCAA's in a 20 oz G2 Gatorade and drink that during your weight training , the BCAA's will help keep you from getting catabolic during your workout and run , then drink a good shake post workout , 40-50g protein and 30-40g carbs.
The biggest thing to do and the hardest for most people is
<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">DO NOT OVERTRAIN</span></span>
only train every other day , or two on one off , if you don't give the body time to recover you can't effectivly make progeress
also make sure your getting plenty of protein , at least 1.5g per pound of body weight , if your only eating 3-4 meals a day have a small shake between them 20-30 gr protein , keep a positive nitrogen balance at all times this will kep the body anabolid at all times , worst case you end up wasting some protein and pissing it out , id rather do that than waiste muscle
Re: Trading off muscle?
I do cardio mostly for its waist shrinking ability. I'm not really doing cardio for the goal of getting my time down. I already max it at the old standard of 9:30. (It's 9:14 now but the point penalty is negligable). I was going to try running sprint tabatas today AFTER my bar workout (pull ups over and underhand, dips, push ups, etc.) A) Im not allowed to weigh over 197 or I bust weight standard (not a big deal because they'll just take a BMI and as long as I'm under 25 Im good). B) for the ejection seat, the flight doc told me I needed to lose 15 lbs to be safer for my size? I called shenanigans thinking that 206 was ok for a very much athletic 22 yr old that is pretty much 6' tall. It's really hard to define what I want here becuase was I want might be in contrast with what I need for the job. Pilots are told to reel in their cardio to a minimum and strenth train, but are still expected to run a PFA well. Lower body strenth for G-LOC resistance, and upper body for being able to make control inputs at high levels of g. Plus cardio depletes your bodys g resistance and lowers my blood pressure/resting heart rate. However, my overall athleticism goes up in my ability to negotiate obstacles, and run further faster. I guess I should stick with what is necessary and not what I want. Ideal weight I've been told for my height was 185. How am i supposed to drop weight without cardio down to it when I put on muscle and its heavier? Does anyone else call shenanigans on a 6' LT pilot trainee HAVING to weight 185?
I do cardio mostly for its waist shrinking ability. I'm not really doing cardio for the goal of getting my time down. I already max it at the old standard of 9:30. (It's 9:14 now but the point penalty is negligable). I was going to try running sprint tabatas today AFTER my bar workout (pull ups over and underhand, dips, push ups, etc.) A) Im not allowed to weigh over 197 or I bust weight standard (not a big deal because they'll just take a BMI and as long as I'm under 25 Im good). B) for the ejection seat, the flight doc told me I needed to lose 15 lbs to be safer for my size? I called shenanigans thinking that 206 was ok for a very much athletic 22 yr old that is pretty much 6' tall. It's really hard to define what I want here becuase was I want might be in contrast with what I need for the job. Pilots are told to reel in their cardio to a minimum and strenth train, but are still expected to run a PFA well. Lower body strenth for G-LOC resistance, and upper body for being able to make control inputs at high levels of g. Plus cardio depletes your bodys g resistance and lowers my blood pressure/resting heart rate. However, my overall athleticism goes up in my ability to negotiate obstacles, and run further faster. I guess I should stick with what is necessary and not what I want. Ideal weight I've been told for my height was 185. How am i supposed to drop weight without cardio down to it when I put on muscle and its heavier? Does anyone else call shenanigans on a 6' LT pilot trainee HAVING to weight 185?
Re: Trading off muscle?
in reference to getting stronger while losing weight...
if you are going for max effort heavy lifts, its very hard to go up in your numbers while losing weight dramatically. to get top strength, you need max calories.
its sort of a trade off. you dont see very many power lifters setting records that are in body building contest shape. and you dont see very many runners weighing 275....
in reference to getting stronger while losing weight...
if you are going for max effort heavy lifts, its very hard to go up in your numbers while losing weight dramatically. to get top strength, you need max calories.
its sort of a trade off. you dont see very many power lifters setting records that are in body building contest shape. and you dont see very many runners weighing 275....
Re: Trading off muscle?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brutus1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in reference to getting stronger while losing weight...
if you are going for max effort heavy lifts, its very hard to go up in your numbers while losing weight dramatically. to get top strength, you need max calories.
its sort of a trade off. you dont see very many power lifters setting records that are in body building contest shape. and you dont see very many runners weighing 275....
</div></div>
Very well said. However, a close friend of mine is 240lbs (benches over 300lbs), and he's one hell of a sprinter. It's a rare combo. Never juiced in his life, 100% natural. He used to be in 82nd airborne.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brutus1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in reference to getting stronger while losing weight...
if you are going for max effort heavy lifts, its very hard to go up in your numbers while losing weight dramatically. to get top strength, you need max calories.
its sort of a trade off. you dont see very many power lifters setting records that are in body building contest shape. and you dont see very many runners weighing 275....
</div></div>
Very well said. However, a close friend of mine is 240lbs (benches over 300lbs), and he's one hell of a sprinter. It's a rare combo. Never juiced in his life, 100% natural. He used to be in 82nd airborne.
Re: Trading off muscle?
^^^ yeah, it seems you can get some big guys that can really sprint. all you have to do is look at nfl players, but it is a rare combo for most.
^^^ yeah, it seems you can get some big guys that can really sprint. all you have to do is look at nfl players, but it is a rare combo for most.
Re: Trading off muscle?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brutus1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^ yeah, it seems you can get some big guys that can really sprint. all you have to do is look at nfl players, but it is a rare combo for most. </div></div>
It all depends on how they train
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brutus1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^ yeah, it seems you can get some big guys that can really sprint. all you have to do is look at nfl players, but it is a rare combo for most. </div></div>
It all depends on how they train
