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Sniper’s Hide Cup Training, Loading, Gearing up for SHC 2014

R

Rem700FTW

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 23, 2012
11
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40
Front Range, CO
Howdy folks,

Long time lurker, first time (hopeful) competitor here. This is the first year I feel like I'm close to ready, and the Cup is coming close to Denver!

I was hoping I could get some feedback on my gear, loads and training plan, and maybe start a thread for discussion with the other first-time shooters. I'm planning on putting up some links to the past event rules too to help the newbies like myself. I dug up the 2011 rules, so maybe I can find that again.

If anyone is in the Denver area, maybe we can organize a meet-up somewhere for a little training together, if people are interested.


Gear
Remington 700 5R .308 Win, AICS 1.5 stock, 2x 5 rnd, 2x 10 rnd mags

Leupold 6.5-25x40 LR w/ Duplex scope (planning on buying a NF NXS 5.5-20x50 w/ MOAR, high speed turrets and zero stop for about $1600, unless there's another suggestion out there). The Vortex look like they are about the same price as a full-price NF NXS, but that won't leave as much money for a new mount, reloading and other supplies.

Springfield XDM 5.25 .45 ACP w/ 4x13 rnd mags
- I don't have a holster yet, planning on making or buying a custom Kydex drop rig (dropped so I can wear a hip-belt over it for my pack)
Tab Gear sling
Zeiss LRF
Kestrel 2500

Edit: Need to get a log book with dope (including DA) and blanks for topo and/or visual range cards for each stage.

Carrying the gear: what do people think about using a Eberlestock pack with the scabbard? Does that make sense for this (are we walking/running far enough for that to matter?), or just slinging it over one shoulder going to work? Kifaru Gear makes an interesting widget that drops off your pack's hipbelt that accepts the butt and allows you to carry it sling muzzle-up under your arm. Any thoughts on that? I imagine the COF will be spread out over a couple miles and require water, ammo, rifle, pistol, tripod/bipod/etc.

Are tripods going to be worth the weight? Any suggestions on manufacturers? I'm also thinking of shooting off my pack instead of a tripod.

Handloads
I've been shooting 175 SMKs at about 2650 fps with 43.5 gr Varget (about 10 ft/s ES), but I'm running low on Varget, so I'm considering a new load. I'm thinking either 155 gr Lapua at 2800 with something like 8208 XBR (if I can find it) or 185 gr Berger VLDs with something like H4064 (although that will suck for load development in the winter) or Accurate 2495. I'm going for loads that'll help me buck the wind out to 1100 yards or so. Suggestions welcome! I'm going to be hitting up the loads section too, although I'm feeling pretty constrained by powder availability.

Edit: gunbot.net is my new home page!

Training
Looks like from the pictures of this year's site and the previous years that there will be a lot of unconventional shooting positions including off of barricades, and lots and lots of wind. I'm planning on doing a lot of dot drills switching "quickly" from 300 to 600 yards from both prone and kneeling/standing, and attending at least a day of the train-up ahead of the competition.

Thanks for any tips!

J (Rem700FTW)
 
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Tag. I'm hoping to compete this year too and it will be my first comp. At this point I don't know if I'll have time to load my own or just shoot factory ammo. I'm still not quite ready to begin reloading and never having done it, I don't know if I'd have the time and know-how to get a load ready over the winter....but maybe.

Anyway, I'd be interested in some practice if I/we could find a place to shoot from positions other than prone safely. The range out at Chaffee county has lots of steel out to 1k+ yards, but it's 140 miles from me. Most likely, due to money and time, I'll just be doing a lot of dry-fire practice with my IOTA that I just picked up. I am also planning on shooting the monthly match in Raton when it starts up again in Feb. The only other matches I've done are belly/prone mathes at CRC, and while valuable, are limited on positional shooting which I need more practice on with live ammo.

As for gear, I don't have a tripod or sticks nor an LRF that's worth a damn. I doubt I'll be able to pick one up before the comp either....oh, and I'm thinking I may need a Kestrel? As for everything else I'm set. I've got 3 mags, a sling, a rifle and a 9mm handgun. I'll start buying more ammo over the next few months and hopefully I'll be set for this.
 
I would stick with an ffp scope for tactical competitions, generally you are on the clock in a compromised position and not doing reticle math in your head on top of that is a nice thing.

I've carried two different size tripods in two SHCs and its a lot of extra weight for not a huge payoff. They are slow to set up and heavy. I've since bought a cheap set of telescoping sticks and put a prs cradle on top, much lighter and more compact.

Frank has been talking about props a lot so I think we are going to see some barricades and other stuff next year. I plan to work on my position shooting more before the cup arrives.

I'd recommend a Kestrel and some DA cards for your ammo for sure. Colorado can have some big swings in DA in transition months.

You guys are always welcome to come work on stuff at CRC with me sometime. They have new 3 gun berms at 100/200 yards that you can use for a variety of stuff in addition to the steel and hp ranges
 
Hey Lawn, thanks for the offer! I want to take you up on that in the next few months.

I was eyeing the Vortex Razor HD FFP scope, I'm a little hesitant to buy since they are supposed to be coming out with a gen 2 soon that looks like it should be awesome. I'm stuck between wanting a scope sooner for training and wanting to wait for the new and improved widget.

I think I'll skip the tripod then and plan on using pack and sling.

Hey COfox, I'll shoot you invites for my range days. I'm going to try to join BCGC up in Bailey as my regular range.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
I bought a Razor recently and have been nothing but impressed with it. Mile High is running a special where you can grab a Razor and Spuhr mount for 2000. Prices on the new ones are going to be 2200 and 2500 I believe and availability is an unknown. You can always sell it here if you want to trade up.
 
I too got in on Mile High's Razor deal and really like the scope, and that Spuhr mount is tits.

Thanks for the BCGC invite, i'd love to shoot there. I'm thinking i'm going to join CRC next month.

But las time i was there, some old timer gave me shit about setting steel on the 1,000 yard ranges berm...Lawn, did they change the rules, because i set it in the same spot u and i did the year before?
 
COfox said:
I too got in on Mile High's Razor deal and really like the scope, and that Spuhr mount is tits.

Thanks for the BCGC invite, i'd love to shoot there. I'm thinking i'm going to join CRC next month.

But las time i was there, some old timer gave me shit about setting steel on the 1,000 yard ranges berm...Lawn, did they change the rules, because i set it in the same spot u and i did the year before?
Click to expand...

I'm a member out there, but probably letting mine lapse. The 1000 yard range always has a FUD who doesn't want to follow the distance/day plan, setting steel out there at the berm, while 'approved' during orientation seems to cause a big ruckus.
 
COfox said:
I too got in on Mile High's Razor deal and really like the scope, and that Spuhr mount is tits.

Thanks for the BCGC invite, i'd love to shoot there. I'm thinking i'm going to join CRC next month.

But las time i was there, some old timer gave me shit about setting steel on the 1,000 yard ranges berm...Lawn, did they change the rules, because i set it in the same spot u and i did the year before?
Click to expand...

I got the okay on it straight from Dennis Reul that is the current president or whatever years ago, its okay. Tell the FUD to take it up with him.
 
COfox said:
I too got in on Mile High's Razor deal and really like the scope, and that Spuhr mount is tits.

Thanks for the BCGC invite, i'd love to shoot there. I'm thinking i'm going to join CRC next month.

But las time i was there, some old timer gave me shit about setting steel on the 1,000 yard ranges berm...Lawn, did they change the rules, because i set it in the same spot u and i did the year before?
Click to expand...

I'm picking up a Razor later this week from Mile High...too good of a deal to pass up. By the way, yes, you can set steel up there. I've been told by a couple of their board members it's fine.

If any of you guys ever want someone to shoot with out at CRC, send me a PM. I go out there 2-4x a month, usually early in the morning on Saturday or Sunday. Last weekend I had the Silhouette range all to myself the entire morning until I left at 11:00am :)
 
That's my problem, no weekends off except during my vacation. I'm off Tuesdays and Wednesdays and have no issues bringing a guest, especially if we're all boning up for the SHC. COfox can shoot so don't hesitate to go with him either. He was making repeated hits on a sub MOA target at over 1k in a 15mph wind last time I was out there with him!
 
LawnMM said:
I got the okay on it straight from Dennis Reul that is the current president or whatever years ago, its okay. Tell the FUD to take it up with him.
Click to expand...

+1 the rules are the rules at the CRC Hi Power Range, and they work. Just pay attention to the odd day(>600)/even day (<600) firing line rule, and if a member there pushes back, ask to see his badge, get his name, tell him you will report the incident to Dennis Ruel, the Club President - this should make the FUD (whatever that is) back down. Same with using steel, it just must be set up behind the pits, up the berm by the target numbers.
 
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LawnMM said:
...COfox can shoot so don't hesitate to go with him either. He was making repeated hits on a sub MOA target at over 1k in a 15mph wind last time I was out there with him!
Click to expand...

Heh, thanks man! That was with my 20" Remington .308 too...I swear that gun was more accurate than my Defiance actioned 6.5CM...Dave Sullivan is a helluva gunsmith. I should have had him build my CM!
 
Just an FYI,

While Douglas has a ton of wind, the mountains tend to mix it up a bit, as well as block it. Here at the T3 ranch, the wind is a bit more free to flow. It channels the wind much more so increasing velocity and guiding it.

We noted on Saturday during the local practice match, the winds were being doped at 12 MPH coming from the North, and by 1PM changed to 8 MPH coming from West, which was then pushed as if coming from South. So you had the winds completely switch direction. By 4PM the wind was down to nothing. So there was no hold.

If you are working up loads for a 308, start with a 175, but if you can get a 185 to work, consider trying that, it may help with some of the conditions.

Definitely work some positions. The last two SHC were a lot of Prone, with 5 minute time limits, you'll see some of that, but it will be mixed up much more movement. (short but faster) So you might have stages with 2 minute or less time limits and some with 5 minute limits. So for the CO guys who are not used to it, like they are down South, going from Sitting, Kneeling to Standing, under time.
 
Lowlight said:
Just an FYI,

While Douglas has a ton of wind, the mountains tend to mix it up a bit, as well as block it. Here at the T3 ranch, the wind is a bit more free to flow. It channels the wind much more so increasing velocity and guiding it.

We noted on Saturday during the local practice match, the winds were being doped at 12 MPH coming from the North, and by 1PM changed to 8 MPH coming from West, which was then pushed as if coming from South. So you had the winds completely switch direction. By 4PM the wind was down to nothing. So there was no hold.

If you are working up loads for a 308, start with a 175, but if you can get a 185 to work, consider trying that, it may help with some of the conditions.

Definitely work some positions. The last two SHC were a lot of Prone, with 5 minute time limits, you'll see some of that, but it will be mixed up much more movement. (short but faster) So you might have stages with 2 minute or less time limits and some with 5 minute limits. So for the CO guys who are not used to it, like they are down South, going from Sitting, Kneeling to Standing, under time.
Click to expand...

Good advice. Working on positions outside of prone, especially transitioning between multiple positions under time, is something I need to practice much more.

If any of you guys are working on loads for the 308, especially with the heavies, check out Alliant PowerPro 2000MR powder. It's not very hard to find, and it will send the heavies down range with amazing velocity. I can send 175s at 2770fps without pressure signs, and it's every bit as accurate as IMR 4064 in my testing...I could push them much harder, but that's where I stopped. It's supposed to work even better with heavier bullets, although I haven't tested it myself. I read some guys were pushing the 185 OTM to 2820+fps which is crazy. If you can't find any, let me know, I've got a sealed 1lb can I'd be willing to give up to a local.
 
afate45 said:
Good advice. Working on positions outside of prone, especially transitioning between multiple positions under time, is something I need to practice much more.

If any of you guys are working on loads for the 308, especially with the heavies, check out Alliant PowerPro 2000MR powder. It's not very hard to find, and it will send the heavies down range with amazing velocity. I can send 175s at 2770fps without pressure signs, and it's every bit as accurate as IMR 4064 in my testing...I could push them much harder, but that's where I stopped. It's supposed to work even better with heavier bullets, although I haven't tested it myself. I read some guys were pushing the 185 OTM to 2820+fps which is crazy. If you can't find any, let me know, I've got a sealed 1lb can I'd be willing to give up to a local.
Click to expand...



I got a private thousand yard range in the Texas Hill country. If any members in this area are planning on going to the match this year please contact me via the hide and we'll practice.
 
Wind is like water it flows around objects and really messes with your down range trajectory. A high BC bullet works well but if it is a speed stage the heavy recoilers are sucking butter milk compared to the 6.5s. Decisions, decisions,,,lol
 
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COfox said:
Tag.
The only other matches I've done are belly/prone mathes at CRC, and while valuable, are limited on positional shooting which I need more practice on with live ammo.
Click to expand...

Talked to RJ about shooting a string or berm at CRC kneeling, sitting, off of sticks......

When RJ first started the CRC match, we would have a side match shooting off of sticks, kneeling....maybe we can get him to start that again?
 
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KevinU said:
Talked to RJ about shooting a string or berm at CRC kneeling, sitting, off of sticks......

When RJ first started the CRC match, we would have a side match shooting off of sticks, kneeling....maybe we can get him to start that again?
Click to expand...

You should really talk to RJ about maybe running 30 yards uphill to a salt block and back, then shoot. For giggles if nothing else!
 
KevinU said:
Talked to RJ about shooting a string or berm at CRC kneeling, sitting, off of sticks......

When RJ first started the CRC match, we would have a side match shooting off of sticks, kneeling....maybe we can get him to start that again?
Click to expand...

That would make things interesting. Is there another CRC match next weekend? If so, you shooting it? I'll try and make it out, and bring you your glasses.
 
If there is a CRC match next weekend, I'm hoping to make it too. I took advantage of the MHSA Vortex deal as well. I'll have to make time to get zeroed with the new scope before then.

Gotta say I really wanted to buy at least half the stuff in the showroom at Mile High. I'll have to save my pennies for a JP one of these days.
 
Do they "squad" shooters for the Cup? If so, can you choose "squad-mates" and share gear, i.e. an LRF? There's no way I'll be able to buy a decent one before the Cup. I am just wondering so I can figure out how to prepare if I don't have one available. Thanks.
 
Yes there are groups that are divided up, and then you work in segments which have your stages for that block. This allows you to share your equipment.

The shooting is individual, but the staging areas are common with everyone given access to the same opportunities. It's here you can lean on the senior shooters for guidance
 
COfox said:
Do they "squad" shooters for the Cup? If so, can you choose "squad-mates" and share gear, i.e. an LRF? There's no way I'll be able to buy a decent one before the Cup. I am just wondering so I can figure out how to prepare if I don't have one available. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I can loan you something for the Cup.
 
LawnMM said:
I can loan you something for the Cup.
Click to expand...

Thanks man! We gotta get together sometime to shoot. I'm planning on shooting the Raton match in Feb for the first time. Have you ever shot that one?
 
LawnMM said:
That's my problem, no weekends off except during my vacation. I'm off Tuesdays and Wednesdays and have no issues bringing a guest, especially if we're all boning up for the SHC. COfox can shoot so don't hesitate to go with him either. He was making repeated hits on a sub MOA target at over 1k in a 15mph wind last time I was out there with him!
Click to expand...

I'm sitting on Sun-Tues days off at the moment, so perhaps I'll reach out to you and we can finally do some shooting together! I'm setting up a sweet new rifle at the moment, and I'm hoping it's good to go in the next couple of weeks (of course, finding some powder might be my hang-up at the moment).
 
In looking at photos from last years' Cup, it seems like competitors would/do carry a small pack, rifles slung and that knee and elbow pads are useful. Will have to pick up some elbow pads. Also shooting stix look prevalent. I still need to get stix, but I do have a tripod with Home Depot-made rest. Would anyone recommend using a tripod over simple sticks? I also have either a Eberlestock Lodrag Eberlestock X3 LoDrag or a 5.11 Rush Moab 6 Sling Pack - 5.11 Tactical Moab 6 that I could use.

It seems to me from the photos that gear is carried but not worn while shooting? Any advice/thoughts on which type pack to carry during the comp, either my large X3 or small Moab-6? Thanks.
 
COfox said:
In looking at photos from last years' Cup, it seems like competitors would/do carry a small pack, rifles slung and that knee and elbow pads are useful. Will have to pick up some elbow pads. Also shooting stix look prevalent. I still need to get stix, but I do have a tripod with Home Depot-made rest. Would anyone recommend using a tripod over simple sticks? I also have either a Eberlestock Lodrag Eberlestock X3 LoDrag or a 5.11 Rush Moab 6 Sling Pack - 5.11 Tactical Moab 6 that I could use.

It seems to me from the photos that gear is carried but not worn while shooting? Any advice/thoughts on which type pack to carry during the comp, either my large X3 or small Moab-6? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Done the tripod thing, honestly they are tough to set up quickly when on the clock, its more stable than sticks but typically the targets aren't way out there if its a compromised position to begin with. Its more about getting it done than being absolutely as stable as possible. I'd find some sticks you like, preferably with a chincy rest that's removable, then you can screw on a nice rest like the ones PRS produces. As for the pack vs wearing the gear thing, I've seen guys do it both ways. I've also seen guys bring so much crap in a giant pack they could have set up base camp at any of the stages. The nice thing about packing your gear is you can shed the pack at the stage and use it as a rest, or just set it on the ground and rest while you wait your turn. The down side is you are constantly taking it off and putting it back on. I've done pack, and I've done wear it, I think at the next comp I go to I'm going to try a hybrid approach and wear what I need to shoot and bring a small one strapper pack for extra shooting bags, sticks, water, etc. that I can shed quickly and still have mags, range finder, etc on my body.

End of the day its preference, my advice would be if you get a pack use a smaller one. It will force you to be more selective about gear. You don't need the kitchen sink. Water, maybe a snack, ammo, range finder, rifle and you are pretty set.
 
There are many of us who compete in these field style matches that use a tripod with great success. You just need to practice deploying it under time and getting into position. I left my Stoney Point sticks at home after my first Steel Safari and haven't looked back. I've been running a medium PRS tripod for a couple of years now.

In regards to training matches to get yourselves prepared for the Cup. For you local Colorado guys, NRA Sporting Rifle will be a good test to a field match and shooting under time. Trigger Time also is running a monthly match at the their facility out East - you would be very wise to go. Contact them for the details.
 
The very best training would be a training class that may have some small timed events/ competitions included or simply attending and competing in a smaller match. One competition and half of the things you thought you needed or didn't need will go out the window. Good luck.
 
See if you can get those 175' up to 2700 fps. I found that at distance, that seemed to be the spot where it would perform adequately. 44.5 gr of varget is my "standard" load. But I'm at sea level.
 
I'm hoping to be first timer too. If it happens near Denver, I'll be out of excuses. I'd love to get some practice time in so if something comes together let me know. I have a bunch of steel and I'm a crc member.
EB
 
afate45 said:
Good advice. Working on positions outside of prone, especially transitioning between multiple positions under time, is something I need to practice much more.

If any of you guys are working on loads for the 308, especially with the heavies, check out Alliant PowerPro 2000MR powder. It's not very hard to find, and it will send the heavies down range with amazing velocity. I can send 175s at 2770fps without pressure signs, and it's every bit as accurate as IMR 4064 in my testing...I could push them much harder, but that's where I stopped. It's supposed to work even better with heavier bullets, although I haven't tested it myself. I read some guys were pushing the 185 OTM to 2820+fps which is crazy. If you can't find any, let me know, I've got a sealed 1lb can I'd be willing to give up to a local.
Click to expand...

I agree with the 2000MR. I too am shooting a 308, pushing Berger 185 OTM at 2800fps out of a 24" barrel. I really like this powder.
 
I would go with a smaller pack. You'll need to carry enough ammo for 3 stages (60 rounds?) then you'll have time to get back to your vehical and replenish, Binoculars, LRF, small tool kit, shooting stix, pistol ammo when required for a stage, shooting bag.
If anyone can think of anything else please post.
I would go with a 9'-13" bipod or even a 13"+ bipod. I had a shorter one last year and wished for something taller. You can always use you backpack but its quicker if your already higher.
 
beretta989 said:
Signed up yesterday, any suggestions for holsters I have a TS Customs built 1911 and 10 8rd Wilson mags. Thanks.
Click to expand...

At least get some 10 rounders man. You can borrow mine, along with my dropped/offset Bladetech holster too if you need it. It's what I started shooting IPSC with and would work fine for the match.
 
Check out Long's Shadow Holsters made in Longmont,Colorado and sold at Trigger Time Gun Club in Longmont, LSH makes 1911 holsters, can be configured for OWB, IWB, MOLLE and are unbelievably strong and reliable.
 
What is the thinking on using a .260 Remington for this? I am leaning towards using that, but the other options are .300 Win Mag, .308 and .338.

I would be using Southwest ammo, so for the .260 it would be a 139 Scenar at 2770 fps, give or take.

I don't think there would be a big gain going to .300, .338 seems like overkill and .308 may not be enough for the longer stuff.

Any insight would be appreciated.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I'll be the new guy out there with a .260.
 
Gonna be a lot of new guys this year man. Not my first match but definitely my biggest, and will be first for most in my squad.
 
Never mind. Issues got sorted out.
 
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