why does it seem they are so quickly replaced. what makes them suck stock, and Y does such a simple grouping of parts vary so much from stock to aftermarket?
Gunsmithing triggers and trigger jobs?
- Thread starter jason_mazzy
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IsleofGough
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Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
You should explain what stock trigger you are referring to and what you desire. (broken vs wanting adjustment for pull; one stage vs two stage; AI, M40, TRG, Sako, etc.)
You should explain what stock trigger you are referring to and what you desire. (broken vs wanting adjustment for pull; one stage vs two stage; AI, M40, TRG, Sako, etc.)
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
to tell u the truth I don't know. I have stock triggers on all my weapons. but it seems i hear alot about replacing those for better accuracy. I understand lightening triiger pull, but am curious why stock triggers seem to have to be replaced to improve accuracy. Y wouldn't a big company just put a better trigger on it from the start?
to tell u the truth I don't know. I have stock triggers on all my weapons. but it seems i hear alot about replacing those for better accuracy. I understand lightening triiger pull, but am curious why stock triggers seem to have to be replaced to improve accuracy. Y wouldn't a big company just put a better trigger on it from the start?
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
Coming from the factory most firearms have what are referred to as "lawyer friendly" triggers. In an attempt to protect weapons manufacturers from stupid lawsuits by people who shoot themselves or someone/something "accidentally" because the trigger was too light, triggers usually come from the factory with a rather heavy trigger that requires often 8 lbs or so of pressure to fire the weapon.
Meanwhile, precision shooters often tend to like triggers with less than half that tension. Some guys measure trigger pull in ounces instead of pounds.
Some factory triggers can be adjusted by a competent person to be quite acceptable. Some can't and are better off replaced by a high quality aftermarket trigger that is meticulously designed rather than just something that will work that the factory designed. As always, cost is a factor at the factory and they try to put out acceptable weapons for a good price suited to the majority of the people that will buy them. If you want better, you get to pay more (as is the case with many things).
Coming from the factory most firearms have what are referred to as "lawyer friendly" triggers. In an attempt to protect weapons manufacturers from stupid lawsuits by people who shoot themselves or someone/something "accidentally" because the trigger was too light, triggers usually come from the factory with a rather heavy trigger that requires often 8 lbs or so of pressure to fire the weapon.
Meanwhile, precision shooters often tend to like triggers with less than half that tension. Some guys measure trigger pull in ounces instead of pounds.
Some factory triggers can be adjusted by a competent person to be quite acceptable. Some can't and are better off replaced by a high quality aftermarket trigger that is meticulously designed rather than just something that will work that the factory designed. As always, cost is a factor at the factory and they try to put out acceptable weapons for a good price suited to the majority of the people that will buy them. If you want better, you get to pay more (as is the case with many things).
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
how much do you think accuracy is improved by just changing to a lighter trigger? I found I always like to have enough length that I feel a pull and a tension point. if I exert any more pressure at the tension point I fire. I have shot friends weapons which didnt seem to have any pull it was just fire or don't fire, that doesn't allow me to set my aim and picture at the perfect breathing spot.
how much do you think accuracy is improved by just changing to a lighter trigger? I found I always like to have enough length that I feel a pull and a tension point. if I exert any more pressure at the tension point I fire. I have shot friends weapons which didnt seem to have any pull it was just fire or don't fire, that doesn't allow me to set my aim and picture at the perfect breathing spot.
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JasonM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much do you think accuracy is improved by just changing to a lighter trigger? </div></div>
It isn't so much the accuracy of the rifle as it is NOT disturbing the aiming while discharging the round. If you have to exert 8 or 9 pounds on a rough trigger surface, (it feels like pulling a cinder block across railroad ties) you can't control the release when you want it.
However, I would rather have a trigger that breaks at 4 pounds but is smooth with no aftertravel, than a 3 pound that is gritty, creepy and crawly and has after travel.
Depending on what kind of rifle you have, some are adjustable. A couple of my Rem 700 triggers have been adjusted to a nice 2 pounds. I don't want to CARRY anything less. But shooting benchrest is a different animal. My benchrest rifles have all had custom triggers set to just a few ounces.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JasonM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much do you think accuracy is improved by just changing to a lighter trigger? </div></div>
It isn't so much the accuracy of the rifle as it is NOT disturbing the aiming while discharging the round. If you have to exert 8 or 9 pounds on a rough trigger surface, (it feels like pulling a cinder block across railroad ties) you can't control the release when you want it.
However, I would rather have a trigger that breaks at 4 pounds but is smooth with no aftertravel, than a 3 pound that is gritty, creepy and crawly and has after travel.
Depending on what kind of rifle you have, some are adjustable. A couple of my Rem 700 triggers have been adjusted to a nice 2 pounds. I don't want to CARRY anything less. But shooting benchrest is a different animal. My benchrest rifles have all had custom triggers set to just a few ounces.
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JasonM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much do you think accuracy is improved by just changing to a lighter trigger? I found I always like to have enough length that I feel a pull and a tension point. if I exert any more pressure at the tension point I fire. I have shot friends weapons which didnt seem to have any pull it was just fire or don't fire, that doesn't allow me to set my aim and picture at the perfect breathing spot. </div></div>
What your refering to here (I think) is "single" and "two stage" triggers. Two stage triggers have a "slack" that has to be taken up before the second stage which takes just a lttle more pressure to break the trigger. Both stages can be adjusted on many aftermarket triggers. Your friends have a single stage which has no take up but breaks at first movement. Sounds like your a fan of the two stage so be sure you specify that if you go aftermarket.
okie
okie
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JasonM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much do you think accuracy is improved by just changing to a lighter trigger? I found I always like to have enough length that I feel a pull and a tension point. if I exert any more pressure at the tension point I fire. I have shot friends weapons which didnt seem to have any pull it was just fire or don't fire, that doesn't allow me to set my aim and picture at the perfect breathing spot. </div></div>
What your refering to here (I think) is "single" and "two stage" triggers. Two stage triggers have a "slack" that has to be taken up before the second stage which takes just a lttle more pressure to break the trigger. Both stages can be adjusted on many aftermarket triggers. Your friends have a single stage which has no take up but breaks at first movement. Sounds like your a fan of the two stage so be sure you specify that if you go aftermarket.
okie
okie
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
A Trigger shooting paper makes quite abit of difference. When I bought my Rem 700 Varmint rifle it had one of those triggers at about 8 pounds, when I started sighting in, I started squeezing the Trigger and by the time it fired I was tinking I needed a Hammer to get it to go off. A Heavy Trigger messes with your mind because as you start putting pressure on it you start thinking how much more before it breaks, which starts breaking your concentration on the Target.
In a Hunting situation a heavy Trigger is not noticed so much. One tends to be excited in the moment and points and Bang. All of their concentration is on doing what is necessary to make the Kill.
A Trigger shooting paper makes quite abit of difference. When I bought my Rem 700 Varmint rifle it had one of those triggers at about 8 pounds, when I started sighting in, I started squeezing the Trigger and by the time it fired I was tinking I needed a Hammer to get it to go off. A Heavy Trigger messes with your mind because as you start putting pressure on it you start thinking how much more before it breaks, which starts breaking your concentration on the Target.
In a Hunting situation a heavy Trigger is not noticed so much. One tends to be excited in the moment and points and Bang. All of their concentration is on doing what is necessary to make the Kill.
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
+1 to what Victor said about the main goal being able to pull the trigger without disturbing the lay of the rifle.
Another important aspect of the trigger though is that it is the shooters main interface with the weapon. It can be quite distracting to shoot a weapon with a bad trigger pull, especially after getting used to rifles with good triggers on them (as I found out last weekend shooting my AR-10 after one of my bolt guns). I was spending about 60% of my concentration on the trigger trying to work through the creep, travel, and grit while keeping the sights on target rather than just being able to casually apply some pressure and concentrate on the rest of the process.
On the other side of the spectrum is having really light triggers like you mentioned Jason. I find it distracting when the trigger is too light as I like to get a feel for the trigger before it breaks as I apply tension. If I just barely put my finger on it and it goes off then I find myself spending too much brain power trying to go easy on the trigger to get it to release when I want and not before.
+1 to what Victor said about the main goal being able to pull the trigger without disturbing the lay of the rifle.
Another important aspect of the trigger though is that it is the shooters main interface with the weapon. It can be quite distracting to shoot a weapon with a bad trigger pull, especially after getting used to rifles with good triggers on them (as I found out last weekend shooting my AR-10 after one of my bolt guns). I was spending about 60% of my concentration on the trigger trying to work through the creep, travel, and grit while keeping the sights on target rather than just being able to casually apply some pressure and concentrate on the rest of the process.
On the other side of the spectrum is having really light triggers like you mentioned Jason. I find it distracting when the trigger is too light as I like to get a feel for the trigger before it breaks as I apply tension. If I just barely put my finger on it and it goes off then I find myself spending too much brain power trying to go easy on the trigger to get it to release when I want and not before.
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
Jason
In part, I think it boils down to a fire control that will adjust down to the lower limit some times required by shooters, or those who believe the lighter trigger pull is the end all be all of fine accuracy, and will do so while remaining safe and or reliable to prevent inadvertent discharge closing/opening the bolt, or jar off. It is important to understand that on some designs the same screw that adjusts trigger pull weight is the same adjustment screw that retracts the trigger to a safe, secure and reliable sear support condition to ensure the system is not susceptible to a host of malfunctions that would cause premature discharge without the arm handler intending the arm to do so.
Some aftermarket designs are better suited for lower trigger pull requirements than factory systems. There are many factors to consider in relationship to simply adjust, or replace a fire control to suit your given requirements, or applications given the operational environment the arm will be utilized during its employment for a given task.
Aug ><>
Jason
In part, I think it boils down to a fire control that will adjust down to the lower limit some times required by shooters, or those who believe the lighter trigger pull is the end all be all of fine accuracy, and will do so while remaining safe and or reliable to prevent inadvertent discharge closing/opening the bolt, or jar off. It is important to understand that on some designs the same screw that adjusts trigger pull weight is the same adjustment screw that retracts the trigger to a safe, secure and reliable sear support condition to ensure the system is not susceptible to a host of malfunctions that would cause premature discharge without the arm handler intending the arm to do so.
Some aftermarket designs are better suited for lower trigger pull requirements than factory systems. There are many factors to consider in relationship to simply adjust, or replace a fire control to suit your given requirements, or applications given the operational environment the arm will be utilized during its employment for a given task.
Aug ><>
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
My $.02 worth, I personally think having a good trigger job done on a rifle, especially a new one is some of the best $ that can be spent on a rifle. I've had one done on every rifle I own except a Kimber, and they come with it already done at the factory. Once you get used to it and squeeze the trigger job compared to the factory trigger you will see the difference is "miles apart ! I feel it is worth every penny
My $.02 worth, I personally think having a good trigger job done on a rifle, especially a new one is some of the best $ that can be spent on a rifle. I've had one done on every rifle I own except a Kimber, and they come with it already done at the factory. Once you get used to it and squeeze the trigger job compared to the factory trigger you will see the difference is "miles apart ! I feel it is worth every penny
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
If my rifle trigger is not adjustable, I can work on it and get a bolt action down to 2 pounds and a semi auto down to 4 pounds.
The after market triggers can safely get much lower than my home made trigger jobs.
If my rifle trigger is not adjustable, I can work on it and get a bolt action down to 2 pounds and a semi auto down to 4 pounds.
The after market triggers can safely get much lower than my home made trigger jobs.
Re: triggers and trigger jobs?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If my rifle trigger is not adjustable, I can work on it and get a bolt action down to 2 pounds and a semi auto down to 4 pounds.
The after market triggers can safely get much lower than my home made trigger jobs. </div></div>
Not true. BUT you MUST know what your doing. I can take a remy trigger replace 2 of the springs and it will feel like a brand new trigger. But im not sure if i want to explain how its done.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If my rifle trigger is not adjustable, I can work on it and get a bolt action down to 2 pounds and a semi auto down to 4 pounds.
The after market triggers can safely get much lower than my home made trigger jobs. </div></div>
Not true. BUT you MUST know what your doing. I can take a remy trigger replace 2 of the springs and it will feel like a brand new trigger. But im not sure if i want to explain how its done.....
