Tripod Shooting: Groups or just Hits?

[ross2068]

One issue is that there is one point of contact and your rifle is doing a "balancing act" on your saddle. How stable is your tripod? A cheap tripod is going to have more wobble, every adjustment point on a ball head induces more wobble. High winds will definitely add wobble. Proper fundamentals and tweaks of your great can help. A tripod can be stable and sometimes conditions dictate a tripod shot is made. I don't take shots on an animal unless I'm confident I can put it down ethically. Arabs... I allow an extra .1mil of wobble for them. An inexpensive monopod is invaluable for rough terrain tripod shooting. You can set that thing up directly under your comb and that gun will stay put. I saw a picture of a marine sitting shooting off a tripod with a bunch of triangles drawn on him... that all and well but that position is NOT stable. Trying to train from a position with all of that muscular tension is going to translate into more wobble on glass. If you can keep your wobble around .1 mil I would be happy with that. May sound stupid but a pack worn on your front will eliminate a lot of dead space resulting in more points of contact from a seated position. I digress

 

[Dthomas3523]

Agreed. An rrs locked in and taking your time, sub moa - .5 moa is pretty easy generally speaking.

I wouldn’t expect that out of a 0311 pig or something similar.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I would upload a video clip, but it’s from the paid online program.

So I’ll just leave this pic here. It’s from Vibbert explaining how he sometimes uses a single rear leg to assist with recoil management.

But hey, you can’t stay are target according to ole boy above.

 

[MCHOG]

I would upload a video clip, but it’s from the paid online program.

So I’ll just leave this pic here. It’s from Vibbert explaining how he sometimes uses a single rear leg to assist with recoil management.

But hey, you can’t stay are target according to ole boy above.

View attachment 7347165

True story. I just watched the videos again (he has 3 on tripod shooting) and he did demonstrate and talk about having the a single leg rearward several times. I watched these a while back and had somehow forgotten that. Can't argue with Jake.

 

[Dthomas3523]

True story. I just watched the videos again (he has 3 on tripod shooting) and he did demonstrate and talk about having the a single leg rearward several times. I watched these a while back and had somehow forgotten that. Can't argue with Jake.

It’s just another tool in the tool box. It has its strengths and weaknesses. But the ill informed or non experienced will always cling to a single way and be left behind those that adapt.

 

[Diver160651]

I really don't like the Hog Saddle Mod8 much but when I do use it, as mentioned above, a sling is useful to stabilize. I find it important to use a QD mount at 6 o'clock position to prevent the tension effort from displacing the muzzle to the right / left. I use a large carabiner attached to center which acts like a smooth pulley for the sling passing to the shooter, which is attached with a carabiner to a riggers belt. Then, as mentioned, very little rearward hip tension will steady up the sight picture pretty well. Sometimes when gathering DOPE there is so much gear it looks like a weather station.

Triangles are incorporated into structural engineering, e.g. bridge trusses, as they are very strong and cannot collapse like regular polygon structures might. When setting up your shooting posture behind the tripod try to imagine and impart as many support triangles to increase stability. The sling is an added triangle.

View attachment 7345381View attachment 7345386

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View attachment 7345409

While correct in your angle comments, the old images shown however, are part of the issue with people moving forward.

First is to use a stable platform NOT old 055 as shown in the images. The goal is to take the shooter's shake out of the system and still self-spot.

Ok I will refrase that. I don't dought it I completely disagree with it. It may work for a 22. Using a centre fire it just bounces on 1 leg and you have to adjust your point of aim for every shot. Wasting time

If your gun is bouncing left or right, you're on the gun wrong, even if you have a rear facing leg.

Here is a Tripod Tips post in a thread we did for our UKD Team Field Match - Tips and Tricks post. All are more than welcome to drop in and make comments or questions on why this stuff works or does not.

Tips: Tripod use in a field match or hunting.
Maybe you'll find something to make deployment faster and possibly reduce the wobble with just a few tweaks.

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

looking forward to the tripod class also, you are putting out so much info, i really appreciate the time your putting into this.

www.snipershide.com

Here is a link to the index for the UKD Team Field Match - Tips and Tricks

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

See the 2021 match schedule here: https://www.avenaltactical.com/ including the next UKD Team Match, 2 PRS Pro Bolt series, PRS SW Regional Qualifier, and monthly Hunter and PRS regional series, matches. Because our match was sold out 10 months in advance, we feel we should offer a spin up...

www.snipershide.com

 

[st1650]

I’m gonna agree with @Dthomas3523
Tried the two legs in the front and loading the tripod initially, i couldn’t keep a sight picture on recoil to save my life. Went to the single leg in the front loading the tripod and putting weight on one leg for stability, my sight picture doesn’t move much. I also put my sights under the target, lock down my ballhead and load it up into the target.

That’s exactly how I do it as well.

 

[MCHOG]

While correct in your angle comments, the old images shown however, are part of the issue with people moving forward.

First is to use a stable platform NOT old 055 as shown in the images. The goal is to take the shooter's shake out of the system and still self-spot.



If your gun is bouncing left or right, you're on the gun wrong, even if you have a rear facing leg.

Here is a Tripod Tips post in a thread we did for our UKD Team Field Match - Tips and Tricks post. All are more than welcome to drop in and make comments or questions on why this stuff works or does not.

Tips: Tripod use in a field match or hunting.
Maybe you'll find something to make deployment faster and possibly reduce the wobble with just a few tweaks.

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

looking forward to the tripod class also, you are putting out so much info, i really appreciate the time your putting into this.

www.snipershide.com

Here is a link to the index for the UKD Team Field Match - Tips and Tricks

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

See the 2021 match schedule here: https://www.avenaltactical.com/ including the next UKD Team Match, 2 PRS Pro Bolt series, PRS SW Regional Qualifier, and monthly Hunter and PRS regional series, matches. Because our match was sold out 10 months in advance, we feel we should offer a spin up...

www.snipershide.com

Great Videos and tips. Thanks for sharing!

 

[seansmd]

While correct in your angle comments, the old images shown however, are part of the issue with people moving forward.

First is to use a stable platform NOT old 055 as shown in the images. The goal is to take the shooter's shake out of the system and still self-spot.



If your gun is bouncing left or right, you're on the gun wrong, even if you have a rear facing leg.

Here is a Tripod Tips post in a thread we did for our UKD Team Field Match - Tips and Tricks post. All are more than welcome to drop in and make comments or questions on why this stuff works or does not.

Tips: Tripod use in a field match or hunting.
Maybe you'll find something to make deployment faster and possibly reduce the wobble with just a few tweaks.

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

looking forward to the tripod class also, you are putting out so much info, i really appreciate the time your putting into this.

www.snipershide.com

Here is a link to the index for the UKD Team Field Match - Tips and Tricks

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

See the 2021 match schedule here: https://www.avenaltactical.com/ including the next UKD Team Match, 2 PRS Pro Bolt series, PRS SW Regional Qualifier, and monthly Hunter and PRS regional series, matches. Because our match was sold out 10 months in advance, we feel we should offer a spin up...

www.snipershide.com

What @Diver160651 shows in these tips with one leg shorter is actually using the tripod, the rifle, and geometry to load the proper leg and reduce recoil. Removing this force from there shooter needing to load. @Dthomas3523 mentioned this above as well, same can be said for single leg behind, leg height can be adjusted to load or unload a leg as situations dictate.

 

[strikeeagle1]

While correct in your angle comments, the old images shown however, are part of the issue with people moving forward.

First is to use a stable platform NOT old 055 as shown in the images. The goal is to take the shooter's shake out of the system and still self-spot.

I understand the goals.
I have an RRS system, however I was just trying to provide a relevant photo for the OP informing us he was using a rudimentary saddle setup as well as include
a sling that might be useful, as mentioned early on. Please offer photo of your relevant saddle setup for the OP.

It seems to me that if someone trains / practices and can make the shot at hand, whether one tripod leg forward or one leg rearward, all this micro-bickering is ridiculous.

 

[McMillan]

@McMillan, @Dthomas3523

im shit off a tripod because i dont shoot it that often

ive seen groups from DT with a pretty thorough explanation

id love to see mclillan pics with the same, maybe even a video

i might learn something and retain it for more than 5 min lol

saying around here "if there arent pics it didnt happen"

I'll get some for you next weekend. I haven't actually shot it on paper as I have been focusing on other things but I had zero issues hitting my 3 inch plate at 330 yards with a 308 allowing about 4 seconds per shot. I did have issues keeping any sort of speed with 1 leg rear. I'd happily use 1 leg rear in certain terrain at matches but not on a flat range. I could lower the 2 front legs more than the rear which would negate it jumping on 1 but that takes longer than just dropping them all to the same hight and simply putting 2 at the back

 

[Diver160651]

I'll get some for you next weekend. I haven't actually shot it on paper as I have been focusing on other things but I had zero issues hitting my 3 inch plate at 330 yards with a 308 allowing about 4 seconds per shot. I did have issues keeping any sort of speed with 1 leg rear. I'd happily use 1 leg rear in certain terrain at matches but not on a flat range. I could lower the 2 front legs more than the rear which would negate it jumping on 1 but that takes longer than just dropping them all to the same hight and simply putting 2 at the back

why not try the lowered single front, if you’re dead set against a rear leg. When you lower the front leg, it lets the two back legs have a similar angle to the rear facing leg.

look at the link I posted - it has the actual increase on a scale and illustrate the angles

 

[Dthomas3523]

why not try the single front, if you’re dead set against a rear leg.

look at the link I posted - it has the actual increase on a scale and illustrate the angles

He prefers single up front. He assumed because he hasn’t developed the technique for using the single in rear that it can’t be done properly.

 

[McMillan]

why not try the lowered single front, if you’re dead set against a rear leg.

look at the link I posted - it has the actual increase on a scale and illustrate the angles

I do use a lowered single front if there is time. and there are lots of ways that work with more time. Unfortunately in my neck of the woods par times are usually very low. A common stage here is 90 seconds 4 targets 4 positions. Each to be engaged with 2 shots. 2 shots standing 2 shots kneeling 2 shots sitting and 2 shots prone. Gear 1 tripod. No bags. No bipods.
Even deploying legs to different heights is burning time you could be using on releasing good shots.
If your shooting a field match and 3 minute par times you can spend a lot more time on set up before making shots

 

[McMillan]

He prefers single up front. He assumed because he hasn’t developed the technique for using the single in rear that it can’t be done properly.

However. I don't think anyone is gaining anything from this disagreement so I will agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

[Diver160651]

I do use a lowered single front if there is time. and there are lots of ways that work with more time. Unfortunately in my neck of the woods par times are usually very low. A common stage here is 90 seconds 4 targets 4 positions. Each to be engaged with 2 shots. 2 shots standing 2 shots kneeling 2 shots sitting and 2 shots prone. Gear 1 tripod. No bags. No bipods.
Even deploying legs to different heights is burning time you could be using on releasing good shots.
If your shooting a field match and 3 minute par times you can spend a lot more time on set up before making shots

Your not making any sense.

obviously, you do not have enough time on the gun to realize what your saying~

Oh and I’ve shot more 90 second stages than I’ll ever be able to count.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm sure some people can do it properly. Whether they can do it in a fast manner I am unsure. But when I couldn't do it properly and shot a group size of 1.2moa I sure wouldn't be telling people it's better

Keep spouting off bad info regardless of how many times you’re shown it’s wrong......you won’t be here much longer. FYI, no one said either way is better. You’ve been slowly rewording your incorrect info/assumptions as you’re being shown what you don’t know.

You came in here and stepped on your dick several times.

Read more and post less.

 

[Vargmat]

I dabbled with a tripod and hog-saddle a few years back, it was not as easy as I thought it would be, but with practise I could shoot both for hits and for groups. I have used both my 6,5x47L and my .300 WM in the tripod with similar results.
I sold the setup last year as I dont really shoot that much PRS (VRS here) style matches, and I tried to use it at a hunt but its just too cumbersome.

 

[TheGerman]

I'm not a PRS weenie, so first round hits are the gold standard.

I've shot a lot off a tripod in broken terrain with random bush veg all over the place where unless you're up on something (which is a whole other problem/issue) prone shots are not going to happen and/or your field of view/field of fire is going to royally suck.

The biggest errors people using tripods make:

- They set the tripod too high/too low. Make marks with a sharpie on each leg using a number+letter system for your ideal completely standing/kneeling/sitting heights at baseline. When in the field, you will need to adjust a bit due to terrain and angle, but you'll be 90% of the way there in 20 seconds. This also ensures your tripod isn't totally uneven, unless it needs to be.

- Use your sling and the candy cane method or loop it around your weak side tripod leg once and hook it to your gunbelt to remove slack

- The two biggest bottlenecks on wobble/movement that make you chase your reticle around while aiming is the connection to the tripod head and rifle as well as the tripod legs themselves. This is mostly solved by being at the right height on the tripod/gun combo, buying a tripod with as little slack/tolerances as you can and hooking the gun to it via a direct lock system like the Anvil does.

- Don't use a head that doesn't allow side to side tilt. You will not be perfectly straight when shouldering the rifle, just like in the prone. Why have to fight the setup that wants to be perfectly straight?

- And my favorite; 2 legs in the rear, one leg pointing out directly in front. I've seen a ton of guys move on the gun and kick the tripod over because they had the one leg pointing straight back at them.

Nothing is more hilarious than a shooting bush.

 

[BigTex]

lol @ PRS weenie

 

[RTH1800]

I did not read all the post. I just scanned a few.
I will say that I never really got along well with the HOG saddle. It was OK, and I used it for years. Better than offhand for sure.

I took to the RRS/Anvil 30 set up instantly. I am not a group shooter beyond checking POI. That said, I often get 3 shot groups at 600 meters with my .223 AI under 3" when verifying POI.

 

[MCHOG]

I did not read all the post. I just scanned a few.
I will say that I never really got along well with the HOG saddle. It was OK, and I used it for years. Better than offhand for sure.

I took to the RRS/Anvil 30 set up instantly. I am not a group shooter beyond checking POI. That said, I often get 3 shot groups at 600 meters with my .223 AI under 3" when verifying POI.

Uh.... I don't want to derail the thread, but I want to hear more about that .223 AI. Really??

 

[RTH1800]

In the event that you are interested in the .223 AI I sent a PM.

Edit, .223 Ackley Improved. Not Accuracy International. Suspect that is what you are asking about.

 

[StrayDog]

OP: @50y, hits not groups, and try Dot Drills.
I just hang paper and sharpie on some circles when I don't have targets.

 

[sea2summit]

Looks like I’ve only got one picture of a group and it’s from when I started getting serious about training on the tripod three years ago...current groups are better usually right at an MOA. 100 meters standing.

Proof of better shooting, 310 meters seated.

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^^They never heard the shot! Nice.

 

[RC556]

Been debating getting a tripod strictly for hits on hogs, didn't know which route to go.

 

[RTH1800]

Been debating getting a tripod strictly for hits on hogs, didn't know which route to go.

When a friend told me about the RRS/anvil 30 set up I laughed. Only a fool would pay that much for a tripod.

Then @wigwamits was kind enough to visit and share his expertise with me. Along with other cool toys he had a RRS set up.I was so impressed I ordered one the following Monday. Never looked back. I realize not everyone is going to drop that amount on a tripod but if it’s possible I suggest you try one if anyone near you has one you can use.

 

[Sasquatch-148]

For all you guys shooting off tripods, are you shooting for groups or just to get hits?

I took my Tikka T1X out today with my newly received PIG tripod with pig saddle on it. I first shot off bipod and bags on a table and kept the groups small (1MOA at 50 yards).

I then stood up and slipped the rifle in the pig saddle.. nothing else changed but I never felt like the gun was really stable, it still was rocking on one point and the groups doubled.

Am I being unrealistic with my expectations?

I bought my tripod just for hunting , squirrels and coyotes . I do practice at the range a couple times a year with it . Because it’s good to practice like you play . It’s not what I would call group friendly like a good rest or bags off a bench . It does allow me to head shoot squirrels out to 65 yards with my 10-22 and coyotes easily out to 125 with my 22 Hornet .
So I guess hits not groups

 

[RC556]

When a friend told me about the RRS/anvil 30 set up I laughed. Only a fool would pay that much for a tripod.

Then @wigwamits was kind enough to visit and share his expertise with me. Along with other cool toys he had a RRS set up.I was so impressed I ordered one the following Monday. Never looked back. I realize not everyone is going to drop that amount on a tripod but if it’s possible I suggest you try one if anyone near you has one you can use.

Oh I believe everyone on the RRS quality. I'm between doing it right once with the RRS or just getting a pig saddle setup and beating up without worrying.

 

[Diver160651]

When a friend told me about the RRS/anvil 30 set up I laughed. Only a fool would pay that much for a tripod.

Then @wigwamits was kind enough to visit and share his expertise with me. Along with other cool toys he had a RRS set up.I was so impressed I ordered one the following Monday. Never looked back. I realize not everyone is going to drop that amount on a tripod but if it’s possible I suggest you try one if anyone near you has one you can use.

^
LOL. I had almost the same experience but a bit in reverse.

Elk hunting last year, I joined up with some guys who have been having great success and know the BLM area like the back of their hands. Honestly these guys, knew their spot, so no disrespect to them at all. The first few nights were like 7° with snow on the ground.

Anyway, I showed up into the communal trailer with my RRS, mountaineering boots, and gators on the first night. The ribbing I took before the hunt, they even nicknamed me Jumanji. I got the "you're going to carry that thing?" or "do you really think you can set it up in time?" But the thing is, some of their sticks were very heavy and the cross canyon shots were expected to be in the 600+ range. I tried to explain the extra 1lbs was worth every once and that once practiced, setup is lightning fast. The more whiskey that flowed, the more everyone giggled when they called me Jumanji.

The first day of the hunt, tripod 1 shot/1 down, shooting sticks 1 complete miss. Following day Tripod 1 shot/1 down, shooting sticks 6 shots complete misses. Tags filled, my tripod and gun went to one of them.. Elk down and so on for a couple more days.

During the drive home, some of the guys already ordered their tripods!

Oh, did I mention I was the only one who had dry feet every day? Jumani my ass..

 

[338AILM]

For all you guys shooting off tripods, are you shooting for groups or just to get hits?

I took my Tikka T1X out today with my newly received PIG tripod with pig saddle on it. I first shot off bipod and bags on a table and kept the groups small (1MOA at 50 yards).

I then stood up and slipped the rifle in the pig saddle.. nothing else changed but I never felt like the gun was really stable, it still was rocking on one point and the groups doubled.

Am I being unrealistic with my expectations?

I shoot for groups with bipod

 

[RTH1800]

They rattle can up very nice as well.

This is my current set up I pack around for varmints and deer culling. Lone Peak Ti action in .223 AI. Proof CF barrel. AG composites stock. LRI fitted barrel. I really like it as currently set up.

 

[StrayDog]

^^^ what's that red wire at the base of your anvil?
Nice spot there

 

[seansmd]

^^^ what's that red wire at the base of your anvil?
Nice spot there

Looks like a cord sling?

 

[RTH1800]

It’s parachute cord sling. Darn handy and quiet.

 

[st1650]

They rattle can up very nice as well.

This is my current set up I pack around for varmints and deer culling. Lone Peak Ti action in .223 AI. Proof CF barrel. AG composites stock. LRI fitted barrel. I really like it as currently set up. View attachment 7348445

Beautiful light weight setup. How much does she weights without the can?

Is your NF the older 2.5-10x24 ?

 

[RTH1800]

Correct on scope. It weighs 7# 7 oz.

 

[16 Gauge]

Some great info here, thank you all.
Don't want to get off topic to much, but just briefly what would everybody recommend for a ball head?

 

[seansmd]

Gold standard.

Anvil-30 Shooting Ball Head

OverviewThe first of its kind Really Right Stuff SOAR Anvil-30 Ball head is purpose-built for heavy equipment support from the ground up. We added our patent-pending dual clamp system able to clamp both the RRS Dovetail standard and Picatinny rails in the same unit. We also removed extra...

soar.reallyrightstuff.com

 

[16 Gauge]

Gold standard.

Anvil-30 Shooting Ball Head

OverviewThe first of its kind Really Right Stuff SOAR Anvil-30 Ball head is purpose-built for heavy equipment support from the ground up. We added our patent-pending dual clamp system able to clamp both the RRS Dovetail standard and Picatinny rails in the same unit. We also removed extra...

soar.reallyrightstuff.com

Thanks
I want to buy once and cry once

 

[st1650]

I don’t think it’s worth to pay for the RRS legs but I absolutely think it’s 100% worth it to get the Anvil ball head.

 

[Maxduty]

One issue is that there is one point of contact and your rifle is doing a "balancing act" on your saddle. How stable is your tripod? A cheap tripod is going to have more wobble, every adjustment point on a ball head induces more wobble. High winds will definitely add wobble. Proper fundamentals and tweaks of your great can help. A tripod can be stable and sometimes conditions dictate a tripod shot is made. I don't take shots on an animal unless I'm confident I can put it down ethically. Arabs... I allow an extra .1mil of wobble for them. An inexpensive monopod is invaluable for rough terrain tripod shooting. You can set that thing up directly under your comb and that gun will stay put. I saw a picture of a marine sitting shooting off a tripod with a bunch of triangles drawn on him... that all and well but that position is NOT stable. Trying to train from a position with all of that muscular tension is going to translate into more wobble on glass. If you can keep your wobble around .1 mil I would be happy with that. May sound stupid but a pack worn on your front will eliminate a lot of dead space resulting in more points of contact from a seated position. I digress

I use a cheap aluminum tripod for hunting. I shoot from a sitting position, so that's how I practice. One leg back, 2 legs forward, sling wrapped in the legs. I agree that dead space needs to be taken up, so I use a pump pillow full of Holofill (super light) between my elbow and thigh. While I'm not shooting for groups, hitting steel at 900 consistently with a PA10 shows that it can be done. I do limit my hunting shots to 600 or less however and don't have to go looking for animals.

 

[delfuego]

1 in the front and 2 in the rear?
Seems like you guys stopped talking about shooting a while back.

 

[Krob95]

The single leg in the back will take some of the recoil and let you keep target in the FOV easier.

Two legs in the back will allow the recoil to come straight back better, but will also be harder to keep target in FOV.

Give and take. If you’re only getting one shot, no need for the single foot as it’s hit or miss and you want as perfect a shot as possible.

With tripods like RRS being so stable, I almost always load into the rifle, so I prefer the single leg up front. RRS is stable enough to hold .5moa this way.

This is valuable advice that I plan on using this coming week as I just got my first tripod (RRS 24L w/ anvil 30) and will be shooting my centerfire rifle at 400-1k yds.