The phrase "To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid" comes to mind when reading this thread... 
- Thread starter 2ndamendfan
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It is going to happen all your life Avicuckold. I just signed up for Civil Air Patrol. It doesn't mean jack shit to them that I worked forward air control and earned jump wings at Ft Benning in the USAF when I was your age. They are more interested in my twenty years experience as a gov't revenuer. And I have to start at the beginning never mind it is not a leap from FAC to SAR. The squadron needs an administrator and mission staff. If I'm lucky in six months I might make grade. But I'm not stupid enough to go over there and tell them how we used to do it or how it should be done. I am an entry level FNG with no shortcuts and the training is every bit as demanding as when I was active duty.
Maybe in a year I'll make part time aircrew. But they don't need me in the plane and that is a fact. I don't know shit and they know it. I'm just happy to be there. So, "why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change" or just shut the fuck up because chances are you don't know shit.
Maybe in a year I'll make part time aircrew. But they don't need me in the plane and that is a fact. I don't know shit and they know it. I'm just happy to be there. So, "why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change" or just shut the fuck up because chances are you don't know shit.
No, you're worse.
A know-nothing who thinks he's a know-it-all. You sound like a
For a second there I was thinking you were going to talk about the donors to the Clinton Foundation that completely dried up... but being the partisan that you are.......
You have no idea what some gov civilians do for you. I worked with a guy that had been captured in a coup and had horrible things done to him, he would go to SERE classes and teach us how to return with Honor. This was in the past 20 years. I dont know of ONE cop that can say that and thats one example, i have a list of more.
But as your other point.... first off it's not the gov jobs that are lucrative but let me give you an example. Lets say I can manage to get 100% disablity, I served less than 1 year and my gender precluded any combat, because i got "hurt" in basic training. I am now able to apply and get a gove job. I then take my gs5/6 pay and am making 100k because im making 60-65k off 100% disability (3200 tax free a month) and my 30-40k as a GS.
There are a lot of people that the gov is ensuring stay in the middle class. The CAC example is one of many. The funny thing is when the last admin got mad he would cut funding... .guess what suffered, operations which is where we( the US Gov) go out and win wars before they start. Guess who didnt have to worry..... all the admin busy work making leeches that homestead in a job because they know they cant work on the outside.
IMHO, you should consider this. If you are working for the gov because of a reason other than; Service to country, its a job you can only do in the gov, or allows you to invent or design things that are only Gov, that you should look somewhere else. I ran into so many people that were trying to live their parents lives who got them a job in the gov, and I mean they wanted the 35 years of service salary and respect, to say the State Dept living in #$@# holes, yet they had done nothing to earn any of that. Sorry you arent making 90-100k when you start.... nope you are making 40K ok 45k with the DC COLA, and you grind till you work your way up.
Maybe the thriving economy will force private companies to change to a more family friendly atomsphere.
I think this is the best point of the whole thread. These homesteaders that barely get by never get fired and always have that steping stone job that the good guy/gal needs to get into a place they can make the place hum.
For what they do a lot are overpaid.
Then again there are a lot that are underpaid, like the State dept girl that was blown up with an IED in Afghanistan, she was probably a GS7/9, and barely had a dollar left for coffee with the DC cost of living. https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/03/state-department-honors-fallen-foreign-service-officer/
But there is a much larger amoun that is overpaid sitting in a job they probably wouldnt qualify for if they had to reapply for it.
I seriously doubt that, but either way, it is a non factor in my mind. The job pays for the skills and conditions of the work. Less family time, more pay. More family pay, less pay. Benefits and pay usually match the work, save for the most menial jobs. Those are either well paid, or crap pay, with very little middle ground.
At the upper levels or the lower levels where the employees like Anne are going out and dying? First part, I agree, latter disagree.
Disagree if you like, I don't care. State Department, like the Justice Department, is rotten to the core and needs to be cut down to size.
Well what gets me is the 40 hour week. Imagine the tech we have now back when that was the grand idea. Point is we are more productive than ever and are not compensated for it.
Thats about as good as an idea that Rumsfeld had to fire the entire Iraqi army. I dont disagree on a lot but there are some... not a lot... some good people trying to do their job. Not trying to use their job to further their political/personal agenda. The fact those people are still employed is mindboggling.
Yep had a scientist friend of mine that left in frustration. Her comment "I could bust my ass all year long, and you know what? I get the same annual pay raise as that old fat fuck, that sits in the back of the office and sleeps at his desk. I couldn't take it, so I went over to the 'dark side' when I had the opportunity." The "dark side" is defense contracting for those that don't know.
The thing that gets me, is that everyone complains about how expensive defense contractors are and yet very few realize that we have to play government fuck fuck games to get things done, and that takes a lot of time and energy. Time=money. If people want defesne contractors to cost less, than they need to fix the government bureaucracy and the DFAR 5000 (which is woefully out of date and extremely costly due to legally required milestones that don't make sense in this day and age where tech is often sunset'ed in 18 months).
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Deleted member 10043
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Actual Vietnam POWs used to visit "*that part* of survival school. I guess they have CIA and civilian staff come and give the talk these days.
Or cut the contracting cost that some Canadian or brit company (BAE and CAE)charges to hire Americans while they sit at home and do nothing. I mean have you seen the buildings in Tysons corner? Short of being made of gold.....
But the reason for contracting is that the gov wants people they think they wont need in 5-10 years.... except they keep needing them. Its funny in a lot of cases if you replace govies with the contractors.....meaning you are now a govie, things would probably get better but that Fat F that you were speaking of could never allow it.
I dont think he was CIA at least that was never mentioned, honestly I was too in the moment to even ask LOL. I think he was just a DoD civilian. I do wish we had more of those people show up. I know ONE of the two Apache pilots teach as well. Everyone hates the other one. Which IMHO did better on the videos than the one that teaches but the RUMINT on him........ People forget the Civilian hostages in Iran too.
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I absolutely know what they do for me. 90% of them it's nothing, they do nothing for me. If they really wanted to do something for me they would quit.
He doesnt grasp this. He also doesnt grasp that most of us aren't talking about the ENTIRE gov when we say we want to eliminate things. I guess its the socialist mind that assumes people want to take everything just because they do.....
The thing I love to ask the socialist is who decides who gets what? who is the elite of their society and who are the rock breakers? And would they break rocks if society asked them too? They are right when they say true socialism hasnt been tried yet.... there is a reason though. Because human nature.... humans have a tendency to take when they can. So true socialism can never be achieved until you take away human wants, desires, and get them to accept needs only. Humans want to feel special so you need to weed that out too. Point is every time, socialism works for a bit then someone says I did more I deserve more and only a few can actaully do it so they do, and they are called Stalin, Chavez, etc
WRT to contracting costs by BAE, I can tell you, they hire from BAE Inc, which is completely based within the US, and for all extents and purposes, an American company (firewalled off from PLC). So the cost of hiring people is the same as any other US defense contractor, be it Lockheed (LM), Boeing or Northrup (NGC). And some of those buildings in Tyson's Corner were there long before it became so populated these days. I remember when there wasn't shit out that way except non-descript industrial looking buildings with a lot of cameras and armed security on site.
I would agree in a lot of cases but the libs are good at twisting facts. So you need to caveat everything so they grasp you dont hate all people. You know its the racist that hyper sensitive to race... same here Its the fact twister that loves to accuse others of twisting facts.
I would offer that shitting on the 90 you are also shitting on the 10
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Deleted member 10043
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The public sector union is in its death throes. Gov't employees don't take a government job because of AFSCME. They find out during the hiring process that they pay dues whether they elect to be a voting member or not. Those fair share dues went all the way to SCOTUS and the union had their ass handed to them. In the last twenty years I have yet to see an actual person from the union or an action by the union that benefited the employees. It is a political scam between politicians and the union. The employee was just a way for the union to take care of their own day-to-day operation costs. The day after SCOTUS everybody was informed fair share dues were cancelled. But there are scum in gov't that fell for the union selling them a bill of goods. They now have a huge target on their Communist backs.
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RIght but you get what I am saying. The top of thise companies... get paid millions and have NO ability to do the jobs they hire people for. So a VP from a firm came to visit she makes 2.9 million has no gov experience, no clearance, can't speak "gov" and I cant get how she got the job,
My point is they have specialized people that support the company and get them the massive contracts yet they pay them crap. I wish the gov would have individual contracts instead of firms.
Cant happen fast enough. They fit every... and I mean EVERY stereotype... one can imagine when thinking of a union.
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Deleted member 10043
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He was a spook. Civilians are not trained in the company language of coming back with honor. They know how to evacuate and a couple of spooks stick around and hope for the best.
LOL! That is beginning to change. For awhile, the whole "we need more diversity" thing was running rampant (and thus, your comment on some people getting jobs that had no business getting). There's been a house cleaning (across the industry) lately, and things are improving once again. Problem was, we had too many liberal progressives running the companies. That (at least in my sector) has changed. A lot of executives have since left, and are seeking employment elsewhere. It's been interesting, watching from the ranks, and seeing the political, egocentric hacks getting the axe lately. A breath of fresh air so-to-speak...
Are there still some of those around? Yes. Always will be in any large defense company. But fortunately, they have been severely reduced lately.
So what? Sometimes jumping on a grenade seems like the right thing to do. Not for you but so others may live. If all the china in the shop is out of style and no one is buying. A bull inside the shop can be very effective way of forcing you to get the message, that it is time to change things. Even if the 10% of good stuff gets broken.
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Deleted member 10043
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Don't know if I disagree.... especially when I read that the latest "ISIS terrorist" the FBI caught was radicalized, recruited, and trained, by FBI informants and sources, then arrested by an agent with the " weapon
That case is an incredibly poor example.
First, that mission was a fiasco that was begging to be attacked. http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...ans-death-in-afghanistan-20140423-story.html# Having been to the Qalat PRT (heart of Taliban country) many times while I had men assigned to that base, taking an AMB there and walking around town without a full WPS security detail assigned to the mission was a grave error that cost the lives of five personnel including three soldiers. The deceased list was not just some cute American sweetheart on a noble mission at a book donation in southern Afghanistan. They were there for nothing more than a media mission attempting to get as much press attention as possible (her job was Public Diplomacy Officer), therefore feeding the untrustworthy Afghan officials entirely too much information about their schedule that day, topped off with walking around on foot outside the wire without even knowing where they were supposed to be. Overall, this was a classic case of "staties" thinking they were too good to do proper coordination with their security detail, too trusting of their Afghan counterparts and gave them way too many details about the mission, and put way too many lives at risk for the sake of a photo op that would have zero diplomatic benefit which is their mission in the first place.
Second, FSOs are compensated quite well and are not GS. Base FSO pay grade for a new hire with a 4-year degree is FP6 Step 5, this lady had a few years with DoS and was likely a couple-few grades and/or steps above that. Combined with all the Post-Diff/Hazard uplifts (which combine for a total of 70% salary increase for Afghanistan), she was well above six figure salary. https://pathtoforeignservice.com/foreign-service-officer-salary-a-comprehensive-guide/ Don't forget that housing, transportation and food is fully provided for while on foreign assignment such as AMEMB Kabul, so no rent or other expenses are involved. Even the coffee is free.
Meh, losing a bureaucrat, no tears shed, these are the same people that pioneered the Iran deal.
That’s bs. She had nothing to do with that
And do we need to get into a grade argument?? Gg vs GS vs faa it’s all the same.
The point is that you are ignoring is there are plenty of civilians are in hell holes doing work the the army and military can’t or won’t. I had a friend on the jawbreaker teams. To shit on the sacrifice of a guy that has given what he has is shameful.
At least I had a welcoming crowd when I came back. He had to wait in the rain for a taxi at Dulles.
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Also to say it was a bad example. By whose standards the Army???
Doesn’t change the fact she went and she left the wire which is more than most of the chatterboxes will do
And the being the lone American on chicken street is a blast
Doesn’t change the fact she went and she left the wire which is more than most of the chatterboxes will do
And the being the lone American on chicken street is a blast
Bad news for you, if the Mil cant or wont do these tasks something is wrong with my country being involved on those tasks in the first place. Using “contractors” to do this shit is wrong and should not be allowed,its a cowardlyway out for the politicians and generals. The use of contractors (mercenaries) is wrong on every level.
The mil didn’t after 9/11. They were scared there was no backup or QRF. The CIA went alone. Read “first in”. They accepted 40%+ Kia.
I agree on the contractors but the cowards can blame others right?!
Bullshit. The 82nd and the 101st could have been put anywhere on the face of the earth in 24 hours with all the support they would hav needed Shortly after. The whole SOF mystique is eating away at a lot of minds, they are using a jewelers hammer when a 15 pound sledge needs to be used, this political correct bullshit warfare has to stop, farming out our national interest to contractors is s recipe for disaster.
Killing as many as it takes to change their culture works and is the only thing that works. The fucking CIA is the organization mostly responsible for 911 happening so 100% KIA is acceptable in my book.
Cowards use their =s to do their dirty work. Period.
Killing as many as it takes to change their culture works and is the only thing that works. The fucking CIA is the organization mostly responsible for 911 happening so 100% KIA is acceptable in my book.
Cowards use their =s to do their dirty work. Period.
Sorry. The ODAs showed up in October the cia did in September first in 9/26. They didn’t show up because they didn’t have CSAR or QRF. That’s facts. And again I’m on the side of the military. I wish we were in first but a bunch of old civilians beat us there. The guys some in this forum shit on
https://www.amazon.com/First-Officers-Opened-Terror-Afghanistan-ebook/dp/B000FCK4UE
https://www.amazon.com/First-Officers-Opened-Terror-Afghanistan-ebook/dp/B000FCK4UE
Here you go dribbling again. Can you try that in English please. Actually have your mom get you a soda and bring it to the basement for you. ?????? never mind I’ll use the ignore the ignorant button.
Sweethart I don't give a shit what you do.
You don't impress with all your CAG/SOCOM/CIA hint-dropping bullshit.
It was a bad example of civilians working for peanuts in hazardous situations. Every FSO in Afghanistan makes six plus figures, many of which are north of $200k/yr, over half of which the bulk is untaxed foreign earned income. Same goes for DoD civilian direct hires and all the alphabet agency employees doing work in combat zones. Contractors are a bargain compared to .gov/mil pay and benefits, that's the whole reason contracts are awarded for that type of work since they can nix employees at will with nary a cry from the unions, to the cheers of unions in fact since they then begin to clamor for those jobs to be done by dues paying direct hires.
Bottom line on all this, bickering about who was first on the ground in Afghanistan aside (it was CIA), is the federal government and American taxpaying citizenry has been in the clutches of a gluttonous gaggle of federal employees who are not needed, are underperforming and over paid, and a broad axe needs to be taken to the OPM rolls of employees to right the listing ship of federal payroll and bureaucratic inefficiency.
No one said they work for nothing, but its not 200k. I just said there are civilians in harms Way. I’m sorry you think it’s a military only thing. I’m all for cutting federal dead wood. I’m also for cutting mil and fed family members from benefiting from their parents service.
There are a lot of people who should and would argue the same about a ton of military positions. So many useless folks in the Services. Hell guys can barely train but they can wash trucks in a desert that get driven from the MP to the wash rack
Just picking on one side is just plain dumb. 99% of the military is sitting home with more days off a year than any gov worker doing nothing except burning gas and and wasting water.
But this is all a waste. Congress is passing a raise of 1.9%. I do think the raises should be tied to service rendered. I also don’t think the military should get a raise just because we wear a uniform. Hell Obama did it and no one cares
you are wrong on so many levels but I’ll just address your 9/11 comment
No it was the FBI. And the Clinton administration. FBI had multiple tips and field offices talking about the pilot training and didn’t act.
Bill was scared to pull the trigger on him for political optics. Please don’t tell me you believe the BS that we funded Osama.... he was a zero in khwost with a bs hospital and almost got killed by the Russians in his little caves . He was mad about the first gulf war. But it’s not the time for a history lesson.
Following my fourteen years active duty, I worked with DoS as a contractor for eight years in Afghanistan. I know well it's not just a military thing to be in harm's way. Your comment that she died and couldn't afford a cup of coffee on her piddly salary was what I was primarily speaking of, right along with it was her actions and agency that were directly culpable in her and four other's deaths. That attack was a classic example of the DoS prima donna mindset, one I dealt with for years over there having to keep them safe from themselves.
A lot of what we're talking about is the two of us arguing the same points. Read back on page one, I said I support a inflation based pay raise, I just also support getting rid of the deadwood via a hiring freeze for all agencies not national security/safety linked along with a thorough evaluation of exactly what services are being rendered by each employee.
I'm totally with you on cutting military pork benefits and family add-ons. I loved Gen Mundy's proposal back in the 90s that no first term enlisted should be married, too bad he got his pecker smacked for that one. Also with you about those in the mil who never do anything relating to destroying the enemy, but you're way over on your 99% are sitting at home as 15% or more are forward deployed at any given time.
I don't pick a side other than my perpetually being on the side of America, nor am I a tinfoil hat wearer with blinders on. I just want and expect fiscal responsibility out of Congress and the rest of .gov agencies.
Lol tracking I was heart in throat in 2012 when I heard the GRS guys got hit till I heard. My buddies were ok
I still don’t think a FSO is making 200k and when she is home she is making 70 in dc. I know this because I used to date a two tour PO. she didn’t make close to what you are saying. The old wood you want to chop off did and helped get good people in bad places
But to where? I’m not gonna name places in country but Qatar doesn’t count, so there goes most of your usaf deployed. Maybe 15% of the army but I don’t count routine stuff as “at war”. Last thing I read was 8800 in af and less than 1000 in OIR. Counting the SMU... well that’s a different animal
So no I don’t count dudes sitting on an island flying training stuff or floating on a boat.
My point is someone comes in here acting like the military is the end all when most of the mil is barely working 9-5 with Friday the base is a ghost town while there are civilians and contractors getting shit on. Then most of those mil are not in combat arms. Like 99% of the usaf minus flyers and sof and some sf(cops) Everyone thinks all civilians sit and collect a check and all mil are getting shelled every day. It’s not the case. In fact the biggest drains on our system are the peacetime vets.
I still don’t think a FSO is making 200k and when she is home she is making 70 in dc. I know this because I used to date a two tour PO. she didn’t make close to what you are saying. The old wood you want to chop off did and helped get good people in bad places
But to where? I’m not gonna name places in country but Qatar doesn’t count, so there goes most of your usaf deployed. Maybe 15% of the army but I don’t count routine stuff as “at war”. Last thing I read was 8800 in af and less than 1000 in OIR. Counting the SMU... well that’s a different animal
So no I don’t count dudes sitting on an island flying training stuff or floating on a boat.
My point is someone comes in here acting like the military is the end all when most of the mil is barely working 9-5 with Friday the base is a ghost town while there are civilians and contractors getting shit on. Then most of those mil are not in combat arms. Like 99% of the usaf minus flyers and sof and some sf(cops) Everyone thinks all civilians sit and collect a check and all mil are getting shelled every day. It’s not the case. In fact the biggest drains on our system are the peacetime vets.
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