Rifle Scopes Trust the level or the eye?

[psinclair]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hidesertcowboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hidesertcowboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am surprised how many guys are saying cant does not matter and you don't need a level, the guys saying this haven't done much long range shooting in the field.

if you run turrets on your scope, you BETTER make sure you are using a level and the reticle is level. if you even have 1 degree of cant its going to make a difference it will also cause the gun to shoot low and to one direction. I use a pop up level on my long range gun and it is surprising how much off level the crosshairs are before I deploy the level. terrain is very deceiving. trying to eyeball the level of the gun in the field even on a coyote at 500 yards normally means I miss, if I deploy the level by flipping it up and leveling the gun before shooting, it means I make the shot. its really that big of a deal.

at 100 yards its not going to be, but then again if you are only shooting 100 yards do you really need that nightforce and GAP rifle?? </div></div>

Please spare us... not much shooting in the field... ya we never do that.

1 degree wow you are good to resolve that and see it down range in the field. The fact you can tell that with your low budget level, not to mention that many will "try" and eye ball the level then before the shot they subconsciously move the rifle any ways is feat in itself.

$6 dollar levels must be more amazing than I thought, especially spanning that 1" of space.

Genius. </div></div>

how do you know I am using a $6 level?? my level is such that I can see it when I am getting ready to shoot, and I can tell you almost everytime without fail when I lay down to make a shot I have to make a substantial correction to what I think looked level.

rob, in the field conditions I shoot in, ummmm like hills and terrain, laying out a shooting blanket is not an option nor is shooting on level ground, try hitting a coyote at 800 yards while set up on the side of a hill, then tell me you don't need a level you dumbass.

heck you can't even carry that heavy gun to the hill, without alerting the entire county you are coming and sounding like a heard of wounded water buffalos walking in.

a level is not needed if you don't use your gun in the field and shoot in the sanitary conditions of a range or flat ground. here is an article on scope set up

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/reticle-perpendicularity.php

some of the attitudes around here astound me with their arm chair expertise, tell everyone they don't need a level on their scope when they shoot, because low light and rob, are sure its not needed, and think we are all dipshits. </div></div>

I've killed a shitload of coyotes at 800+ meters and never used a level one time...there's enough data to process when shooting coyotes at that distance as it is...one less thing to prick around with is a good thing. Like these guys said, practice trumps all the cure-all shooting aids.

 

[sinister]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

Kentactic, do you wear glasses or contact lenses? Do you have any astigmatism / astigmatic error (the difference in having an oval or spoon-shaped eyeball lens vice perfectly spherical, and the lens correction to bring the image your eyeball sees as correct)?

This could be adding minor angular error if indeed your vertical hairline is truly perpendicular to horizontal level.

If your reticle itself is not installed and tracking true to the scope's erector travel your vertical error may show as left-right errors in box or vertical line proofing.

 

[Guest]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

Bitch,....? You can't do better than that???


What the Fuck is it with all these FNG's that know it all?

How about all you Fucking experts show the fuck up at a known shoot, that has a thread here.
That way, we can have known's, eyeball "Your" ability's and while we are at it, we'll have your bone-a-fide's, ran as well.

The music is playing and "You" ask for the dance, all you have to do now is show up,...

 

[blklabs]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There once was a shooter named Doe
who insisted that everyone know.

When shooting in a field of hay
your level must be used all day.

For not the weapon be level
you no strike the coyote in the bellow.

A degree of cant any day
allows the coyote to get away.

I submit, spin drift is more problematic than cant.

</div></div>

That is awesome!

 

[Graham]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hidesertcowboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok guys everyone that shoots with a level on their gun is an idiot is that what I am hearing????</div></div>Nope.

It's both simpler and more complex than that.

What I am hearing is the assessment of a non-participant, which means very little.

 

[Chanonry]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I submit, spin drift is more problematic than cant.

</div></div>

some more eminent shooters than I would say that if you are not managing cant and are compensating for spin drift then you are "deluding" yourself

it isn't the way this argument is going, but there again this isn't the only source of reliable information

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

Hey cowboy,
you have no clue who you are arguing with. I would suggest you take gf14e2's challenge now and show up at an actual field comp to show your mad skills.

Swing by New Mexico next month, I want to see some 'net knowledge put Rob01 in his place

(actually my money's thinking "his place" will be a top 5 finish, as usual.)

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hidesertcowboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">low light, reading a few of your past posts you really are the resident board know it all</div></div>

He's also the site owner and a former Marine Corps sniper.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hidesertcowboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">check mate bitch.</div></div>

What is a "check mate bitch"? I have never heard of such a thing. If you meant to infer that you somehow outwitted him, and tacked the "bitch" to direct the "check mate" at Frank, you failed. It would be, "check mate, bitch."

Josh

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

This place is getting weird.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

OP....As far as I can read Ken, you are levelling your reticle to a rail on the top of your receiver.

(Apologies if I missed something but I didn't read all the posts once the pissing contest started)

Is the rail an integral part of the receiver or is it screwed to it?

Is that guaranteed 100% level and centred to the bore?

I always believed that the scope should be aligned to the bore, not the nearest "flat" surface"?

I'm just thinking that if you level to the rail and that rail itself is not correctly centred and level to the bore then you're going to have a hell of a time getting it sorted.

Here's a visual indication of what I mean:

Draw a perfectly straight line with a circle below it to represent the top of the receiver and the bore on a piece of paper like this:
_
o

Then alongside draw it again but with the top line angled one way or the other. Like this (exaggerated view

):

\
o

Then pin the paper to a card through a fixed point in the centre of the top angled line and move the paper so that the angled line becomes level - see what happens to the O?

As the top line becomes level, the "o" representing the bore has shifted left or right (depending on the orientation of the angled line you drew).

I'm wondering if this is what is happening on your rifle?

Just a thought.

(Maybe my post is redundant as the thread has gone beyond dealing with the original question

)

 

[Guest]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chanonry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I submit, spin drift is more problematic than cant.

</div></div>

some more eminent shooters than I would say that if you are not managing cant and are compensating for spin drift then you are "deluding" yourself

it isn't the way this argument is going, but there again this isn't the only source of reliable information </div></div>

That may be true, but while your pumping numbers into a PDA, or wiz-wheel to make that bragging shot, the fog may allow a guy with better than average skills to have already closed within 600-800yds. That L/R bragging shot has always got the glory and always will, but in the end it's gray matter and sweat, that controls the ability to not leak.

Given the choice between being the best LR shooter on this rock or a Hump'in Chump with a radio, I'll take a PRC-6 and the right freq to,...

"What Have You Got?
OK, I want it at X/X, and lay it from X to X.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How about all you Fucking experts show the fuck up at a known shoot, that has a thread here.
That way, we can have known's, eyeball "Your" ability's and while we are at it, we'll have your bone-a-fide's, ran as well.</div></div>

Neva' Gunna Happen.

It's too easy to talk smack on the internet. Much harder to perform on demand.

 

[njlohmann]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hidesertcowboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
there you go, proven wrong with your own test, check mate bitch. go relearn half the stuff you thought you knew, </div></div>

Oh snap! you have been check mated Lowlight. Quickly! respond with a double dog check mate!

 

[RobG]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

Interesting topic and replies in this thread. I will throw this "wrench" in to the works. I shot without a level for a while but for some reason I never found the crosshairs to be level at the same time the rifle appearred level. Thats to say, when they crosshairs looked level to my eye, the rifle had slight cant. I used a plumb line and that Midway bubble level scope deal to level the gun and scope. So I broke down and bought a Vortex level. Installed it, plumb lined it up, and voila all is level. Or so I thought. When I set the gun all up via bubble level, it appears that the crosshairs are slightly canted. BUT, and here is the weird part, ONLY in my right eye. When I use my left (weakside) all is lined up and level. I played with it for a long time to make sure everything is level to no avail. I even spoke to my optomologist about it and he was similarly perplexed and had never heard of that complaint before. So now I use the level as much as allowable; some matches are fast paced so I set it up initially then memorize the crosshairs in relation to the target so I dont have to keep looking at the bubble. And I can see a noticeable difference in my on target accuracy especially from beyond 600 yds. So I have learned to trust the level and not my eye.

How about that for some added weirdness to the conversation?

 

[Guest]

Re: Trust the level or the eye?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.How about that for some added weirdness to the conversation? </div></div>
Not weird at all, many folks tend to mount weapons from the weak side differently. I canted a M14 so bad from my weak side when new, the traveling band wanted to know if I had a shoulder injury.