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Tubb Ogive Groove tool

Crews

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Minuteman
  • May 11, 2017
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    I am interested in the tool that cuts grooves in the bullet ogive after hearing some off the cuff podcast commentary on the terminal performance.

    specifically, wondering if it can be used to turn cheap ammo into “rapidly expanding”. I hunt hogs at night with thermal, and it’s not uncommon to run through several mags a night with my SBR.

    for instance, 6.5 Grendel steel case Wolf ammo is super cheap, but the bullets just don’t work very well for hogs. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?
     
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    Crews

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    Minuteman
  • May 11, 2017
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    Thanks for the sanity check. I cannot for the life of me decipher his website. Will have to call on Monday and ask in person.
     

    Crews

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  • May 11, 2017
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    I'm also kinda curious about what type of bullet.... this is going to be nothing short of magical if it makes a FMJ bullet expand rapidly in hog meat. Will call Tubb tomorrow and see what's up.
     

    Crews

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  • May 11, 2017
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    Talked to someone at Tubb. Conceptually speaking they confirmed that this works, they’ve tested it and it’ll turn a FMJ into something that expands. However, the nose ring tool is not commercially available and there is no official ETA. They weren’t even bold enough to venture a guess. I guess I’ll stay tuned, but not going to hold my breath based on this feedback.
     
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    BLKWLFK9

    Just F'n Send It..
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    Minuteman
  • Feb 13, 2017
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    U can call and get on the waiting list. By that, I mean if you're on the list, you'll be among the 1st people to get notified that they actually produced them and are for sale. I'm really excited about this. I want it simply to run on 168g SMK. I've shot and killed quite a few critters with them and would be thrilled to get them to so even more terminal damage.
     
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    kthomas

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    Jun 17, 2009
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    U can call and get on the waiting list. By that, I mean if you're on the list, you'll be among the 1st people to get notified that they actually produced them and are for sale. I'm really excited about this. I want it simply to run on 168g SMK. I've shot and killed quite a few critters with them and would be thrilled to get them to so even more terminal damage.

    I'm really interested in this Tubb tool, for similar application.
     
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    Crews

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    Minuteman
  • May 11, 2017
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    The way Tubb sounded on the podcast, it was tried and true and available on the site. ????
    I didn't talk to Tubb himself, but the guy I spoke to said Tubb hadn't quite worked out all the details he needed to before he could pull the trigger and make it commercially available. I can only take them for their word.
     
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    BLKWLFK9

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    The nose ring tool that they themselves made, worked. The issue was with the prototype made by the potential manufacturer being up to David's standards. They weren't happy with what they saw.
     
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    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
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    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
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    hoplitearms.com
    Hi,

    The concept of "grooving" a monolithic is nothing really new.

    This tool is going to make it a LOT easier and more practical for the everyday user though!!!

    The concept of using a "groove" per say to help expand monolithics can be done from the monolithic manufacturer themselves too.
    Here is an EXTREME version of such practice:
    1582218664946.png


    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    Greg Langelius *

    Resident Elder Fart
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 10, 2001
    8,895
    4,950
    AZ
    I am interested in the tool that cuts grooves in the bullet ogive after hearing some off the cuff podcast commentary on the terminal performance.

    specifically, wondering if it can be used to turn cheap ammo into “rapidly expanding”. I hunt hogs at night with thermal, and it’s not uncommon to run through several mags a night with my SBR.

    for instance, 6.5 Grendel steel case Wolf ammo is super cheap, but the bullets just don’t work very well for hogs. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

    I think you are. At this point, the tool is simply vaporware, I.e., it's talked about, but not in hand.

    I did some experimenting with the Wolf, mainly by substituting HDY 95gr v-Max for the Wolf 10gr FMJ. Not much improvement; the charges weren't all that consistent to begin with.

    The Wolf is not adequately consistent. I shot 100rd onto a single target in the 24" barrel. The spread was about 8" at 50yd, with the center 3" missing.

    I am trying two boxes (40rd total) the first available 6.5G Frontier 123FMJ loads, with some pulled and replaced by Speer 120gr Gold Dot bullets, which have a good reputation for both accuracy and excellent terminal performance on deer-size game. The Frontier powder charges are pretty consistent for military grade ammo. They will be tested against handloads using Starline Brass, WSR, the 120 SGD (Speer Gold Dot) bullets, and W-748 at charges from 30.0gr on up to ?. OAL is arbitrarily set at nominal magazine length, 2.260".

    There are minimal pressure signs (minor primer edge rounding, no primer cratering, no ejector swipes, and significant sooting at the neck and shoulder) at 30.0gr of W748. My personal interpretation is that there's room for some more powder, as long as the pressure signs are reviewed religiously. The sooting is possibly a sign that case pressure is insufficient to seal the case neck. I'm not giving my seal of approval to this experimentation; but I am proceeding.

    The test rifles are AR stoner Uppers, both factory and home built using AR Stoner Barrels and other components. Barrel lengths are 20" and 24", with rifle length gas systems.

    So far, progressing from 29.1gr to 30.0gr, accuracy has improved with each .3gr Charge weight increment, with the 30.0gr charge doing just about 1" at 100yd.

    That's all for now, winds are iffy down here on the border this time of year, so outings are getting fewer and further in between.

    It will happen...

    Greg
     

    NICETRY

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    Apr 14, 2013
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    Oklahoma
    The tool is not vaporware. There is about a dozen out there as of now. Problem is getting the manufacturer of the part to get the cutter head runout to an acceptable range. Right now more than half of them sent to Tubb for testing are not up to spec and right now just trying to get these to a point where they can be mass produced within tolerances.
     

    Wabtklr

    Send It
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    Mar 17, 2018
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    New Mexico
    I talked to someone at Tubb at the begining of this year and he said that they were waiting on Lawyers and the US Military, not sure when they will be available, probably 2021.
     

    Greg Langelius *

    Resident Elder Fart
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    Minuteman
    Aug 10, 2001
    8,895
    4,950
    AZ
    I hope it works out. I've always respected G. David Tubb, and have come to expect that when he comments on something, he's right on the money.

    My guess is that he never talks about something that he's not already proven three ways to Sunday, a trait I could use a bit of myself. It appears that the 'vaporware' comment is mistaken, but when one depends on independent contractors to deliver, sometimes they don't, and let's not get started on government contracting.

    These particular days, I put all the comments and complaints aside. The market is so sideways, nothing can be counted on. You have to treat the 'good' days like "Bad Years Eve". No matter what we see through the windshield, a complete breakdown can be lurking somewhere within the next mile.

    Sorta reminds me of the old Monty Python skits about the Spanish Inquisition, "Nobody expect the Spanish Inquisition!".

    Better, reliable expansion is the primary reason why I am impressed with the Speer Gold Dot rifle bullets. It's just another (very) different approach to the same issue.

    But these days, everything, even the Speer stuff, is vaporware. It's there surrounded by glowing praise in the magazine ads, but find some on the shelves, or marked "In Stock"?

    If you can find it, it' because it's junk and nobody wants it at any price.

    I've seen the video by the Federal-CCI-Speer-Remington CEO about the shortages, and I believe every word he says. But even that news is still gloom and doom.

    I found an Big 50 ammo can full of rimfire ammo out in my shop. I bought some nice steel 22LR target. The rest of my shooting world is on hold, IMHO.

    And then there's that dementia ridden jerk who wants to step into the White House and make all our lives better and brighter..., and he's the 'good one'.

    Greg

    PS, quoting myself from above:

    I am trying two boxes (40rd total) the first available 6.5G Frontier 123FMJ loads, with some pulled and replaced by Speer 120gr Gold Dot bullets, which have a good reputation for both accuracy and excellent terminal performance on deer-size game. The Frontier powder charges are pretty consistent for military grade ammo. They will be tested against handloads using Starline Brass, WSR, the 120 SGD (Speer Gold Dot) bullets, and W-748 at charges from 30.0gr on up to ? OAL is arbitrarily set at nominal magazine length, 2.260".

    There are minimal pressure signs (minor primer edge rounding, no primer cratering, no ejector swipes, and significant sooting at the neck and shoulder) at 30.0gr of W748. My personal interpretation is that there's room for some more powder, as long as the pressure signs are reviewed religiously. The sooting is possibly a sign that case pressure is insufficient to seal the case neck. I'm not giving my seal of approval to this experimentation; but I am proceeding.

    This stuff turned out to be nearly all wrong.

    Lack of pressure signs in the 6.5 Grendel turned out to be the Devil's Speech, egging me on toward disaster. Going above what was posted above achieved only one thing, a broken extractor. The soot was actually just evidence that the case was being yanked o/o the chamber while it was still under pressure, putting way excessive strain on the extractor. Adding even just a smidge of powder beyond the 30.0gr mentioned just pushed it all past the point of failure.

    IMHO, it's important to treat the 6.5 Grendel, with its wider diameter bolt face cutout, as a special case. The extractor needs to be modified, and it's weaker, IMHO. Pressure signs are not a reliable indicator of safe loads for that round. My rifle has been fixed with a JP Improved Grendel Extractor. Those folks got the message right. Loads will now remain within published limits, and the barrel will be reserved for loads with lighter bullet weights, mainly as a varmint barrel.

    The Frontier 6.5 Grendel 123gr loads proved to be a big 'Meh' as far as accuracy went, and perhaps a bit hot. YMMV.

    These days, my liking for W-748 has been replaced with IMR-8208XBR and TAC.
     
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