i want to get this but want to know if it will light strike primers frequently, does anyone have one for a winchester?
Tubb's Speedlock for Winchester 70 Long Action
- Thread starter FrankieJames7
- Start date
I don't have one for a Winchester but I will ask why you want this? I have one in a custom rifle. I have lived with it for about 9 years. I hate it. Craters everything, but they do go bang. As soon as I can get this thing to GreTan to have Greg set a regular pin up I'm going to. Only reason I haven't yet is the only one of these bolts in existence. It gets jacked up the action gets scrapped.
That's good information to know. I've got one in a Mauser, that I felt made no difference. Locking up on the rifle with a good position is going to do a lot more for marksmanship than the difference in fractions of a second for the firing pin to hit when the trigger is pulled.
well i just thought that mr Tubb invented his own gun and won a lot of rifle shooting matches he might make good parts. i can see the market for it but if it makes it unreliable then for me it is not worth it. i will buy a timney trigger instead
How?
My point: A primer requires a certain amount of kinetic energy to be delivered to it if it is to perform predictably. You make the pin lighter you might very well improve lock-time however at what expense? There is no free lunch.
You can make a pin from AL or from TI or whatever. Now you have to increase the spring to generate the same impact force. Now the spring gets heavier because it requires larger wire or more coils per inch. You robbed Pete and gave it to Paul. What isn't considered though is the follow through. (inertia) A jab from Mike Tyson hurts like hell. A left hook knocks your ass out. The same idea holds true with a fire control. Believe it or not, the shitty ol M700 and M70 gets this right straight from the factory. The math doesn't lie.
Where the ball gets dropped is the excessive clearance between striker and hole in the bolt face.
I once watched a shooter go from 1/3 X ring elevation at 1000 yards to barely being able to hold 8 ring all because someone "gunsmithed" her action and put a lighter spring in it. She went back to the OEM piece and she was right back to hammering 43+ point scores and 65-70% X ring percentages on the Palma course.
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i actually have the write up from Tubb about this. of course i looked at it as marketing information but it said that tubbs pin and spring generate the right energy but not for as long as time as a heavy pin, in other words less momentum
If you feel you have a lock time problem, buy a new spring from Brownells. What you'll probably find is the old spring wiggled down the pin and drags on the inside of the bolt body. A new spring will get your weight back (if it's low) and they are tight to the pin. I change mine every few years. $25 and 5 minutes (that includes pouring and drinking 3 fingers of Woodford) and all is well in the world.
I'll not go so far as to say it's a piece of shit, but it certainly has caused cratering in my Millsaps~FatBoy action. My numbers and groups are still good so I've just dealt wit it. It's not the pin I spec'd and I don't know why he installed it as I bought a GreTan pin. I figure Greg's pin was bigger than the pin hole and he just chucked the Tubb unit in becuase he didn't have a flat grinder, or Greg send a small pin and the hole was drilled
I'll not go so far as to say it's a piece of shit, but it certainly has caused cratering in my Millsaps~FatBoy action. My numbers and groups are still good so I've just dealt wit it. It's not the pin I spec'd and I don't know why he installed it as I bought a GreTan pin. I figure Greg's pin was bigger than the pin hole and he just chucked the Tubb unit in becuase he didn't have a flat grinder, or Greg send a small pin and the hole was drilled
is cratering when the firing pin punctures the primer? if that is the only problem i think a file and sand paper would fix it
No, cratering is when a ridge is raised around the firing pin indentation. The firing pin itself isn't usually the cause. Headspace and load pressure are usually the culprits.
FWIW, my lock-time kit has a longer, lighter firing pin, and a stronger spring. Which led to harder trigger pull. So, the sear/firing pin mating faces had to be polished better and remain lubricated...or it's a tough pull. It retains the same kinetic energy. As longrifles said, there is no free lunch. This is true....just something else on the menu.
A speed lock is a good concept with a very limited purpose. For unsupported shooting, where muzzle wobble/swing is involved while making the shot, decreasing the lock time has merit. The alternative requires serious disciple concerning maintaining a stable shooting position, is tiring, and is not always successful. A speed lock can definitely help with this, but is not a universal solution.
Outside that realm, that merit becomes less necessary. If negatives (like firing pin/pin hole diameter mismatches, and/or light primer strikes) accompany all of this, then the overall value can shift to become a detriment. For supported shooting (bipods, rests, barriers, etc.) minimal need for a speed lock exists. Positional shooters, like Mr. Tubb, can benefit from speed locks because their shooting discipline does not permit supported shooting.
Recognize that primer cratering is not a hanging offense. Unless the primer vents, this is just a cosmetic effect. The primer is a single use object.
Cratering due to pin/hole diameter mismatch can produce a 'false crater' that is only partially related to pressure variations. This can be annoying if it lends confusion to the process of reading pressures signs based on comparing the appearances between primer indentation on differing handloads.
Greg
Outside that realm, that merit becomes less necessary. If negatives (like firing pin/pin hole diameter mismatches, and/or light primer strikes) accompany all of this, then the overall value can shift to become a detriment. For supported shooting (bipods, rests, barriers, etc.) minimal need for a speed lock exists. Positional shooters, like Mr. Tubb, can benefit from speed locks because their shooting discipline does not permit supported shooting.
Recognize that primer cratering is not a hanging offense. Unless the primer vents, this is just a cosmetic effect. The primer is a single use object.
Cratering due to pin/hole diameter mismatch can produce a 'false crater' that is only partially related to pressure variations. This can be annoying if it lends confusion to the process of reading pressures signs based on comparing the appearances between primer indentation on differing handloads.
Greg
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i see i see. my gun usually craters when shooting hot ammo like some 250 grain, i even got one neck to split on factory ammo. i am thinking my gun has a tad extra headspace.
i first got got the idea of light firing pins after i read rifle accuracy facts by harold vaughn, my thinking is lighter firing pins introduce less harmonics into the over all weapon, a better lock time is just a side effect. is it worth 120 bucks? i'm not sure, i am not sure if it even helps at all. but like chad said, if you are racing the extra 15 hp your engine has compared to your opponents might make the difference, it just depends on how many bucks you want to spend and how many rocks you want to leave unturned
i first got got the idea of light firing pins after i read rifle accuracy facts by harold vaughn, my thinking is lighter firing pins introduce less harmonics into the over all weapon, a better lock time is just a side effect. is it worth 120 bucks? i'm not sure, i am not sure if it even helps at all. but like chad said, if you are racing the extra 15 hp your engine has compared to your opponents might make the difference, it just depends on how many bucks you want to spend and how many rocks you want to leave unturned
LongRifles:
I've shot thousands of rounds with M98 matchrifles in Scandinavia. Field target, moving target, etc. No support, slings or bipods allowed. The difference with speedlock in M98 come down like this. Pull the trigger at exactly the the same moment in two identical M98s but one with SL and one without. The bullet has exited the barrel in the SL rifle before the fireing pin has hit the primer in the non SL rifle. Of course this is important in off hand shooting.
I've shot thousands of rounds with M98 matchrifles in Scandinavia. Field target, moving target, etc. No support, slings or bipods allowed. The difference with speedlock in M98 come down like this. Pull the trigger at exactly the the same moment in two identical M98s but one with SL and one without. The bullet has exited the barrel in the SL rifle before the fireing pin has hit the primer in the non SL rifle. Of course this is important in off hand shooting.
