Tuner advocates have suggested far more inane explanations than external mass magically affecting burn rate... But yes, I was reading your statement as a continuous phrase, not two distinct thoughts.
- Thread starter badassgunworks
- Start date
Some talk of ar's not showing results as well as a rifle.
For a reference point.
I am running what I consider a tier two system and not at the top of that. It's a tier two budget.
The barrel, receivers, scope, stock, trigger bcg, every piece .
I assembled them myself.
I'm also what I consider a tier two shooter since I don't own any tier one gear at all.
I got to a plateau of about 7/8 at best groups and could not get past it. I installed an EC Tuner Brake .
I have two loads 52g, and 55g that have shot 3/8 now and working on my system and follow through.
I am on my third powder for my 69g load the first two would not break 3/4 even with tuning.
Maybe one day I will build a good bolt gun, or build an ar 10 but either will definitely get another tuner.
For a reference point.
I am running what I consider a tier two system and not at the top of that. It's a tier two budget.
The barrel, receivers, scope, stock, trigger bcg, every piece .
I assembled them myself.
I'm also what I consider a tier two shooter since I don't own any tier one gear at all.
I got to a plateau of about 7/8 at best groups and could not get past it. I installed an EC Tuner Brake .
I have two loads 52g, and 55g that have shot 3/8 now and working on my system and follow through.
I am on my third powder for my 69g load the first two would not break 3/4 even with tuning.
Maybe one day I will build a good bolt gun, or build an ar 10 but either will definitely get another tuner.
Have you done any real exhaustive testing of tuner settings? Or did the AR-15 just start to group better with the added mass at the end of the muzzle, negating the need to move that tuner around thousandths of an inch to find that optimal precision?
I just thought of something.
The two powders I used I belive were too fast.
I think I may do a test with the same powder and start with the tuner ran most of the way out for initial development.
I normally start down low to allow for vert hot conditions.
The two powders I used I belive were too fast.
I think I may do a test with the same powder and start with the tuner ran most of the way out for initial development.
I normally start down low to allow for vert hot conditions.
had to remove the tuner to install an adjustable gas block which by the way a pain in the arss ,gas tube did not want to come out of the block. got it , in hindsight would of been easier to just also get a new tube.
then came the task of getting the tuner settings back to the tinny groups I had been getting. no biggie, it worked. my bad was not noting the setting before I took it all apart.
then came the task of getting the tuner settings back to the tinny groups I had been getting. no biggie, it worked. my bad was not noting the setting before I took it all apart.
Did you actually read the article?
I did. I'm curious which parts of it you take issue with, and why.
Gotta love some hack writer jumping on the fucked-up meme du jour bandwagon. Remember boys, diversity is our strength, take the jab or else you are killin grandma, and nodes don’t exist ? What else will you sucker for ?
I paid the extra for a mid tier barrel.
It came standard with a node.
It came standard with a node.
It depends on the thread pitch of the tuner. If its 20 TPI, then one revolution equals a movement in the mass of .050"...
I do understand that.
How did a tuner company decide how to create their tuner intervals? Why is that setting interval significant? Or is it completely arbitrary?
the adaptive tuning system tuner has 24 marks
Ah tuners.
Reminds me of a story. Years ago, one of the FBI's former HRT guys, then serving as a firearms instructor, boondoggled his way to Midsouth as an instructor. He ended up putting together a whole shooting curriculum that was swallowed up organization wide. One of his "epiphanies" was a device, basically this rubber grip sleeve, that added a pronounced rib on the inside of the pistol (Warren Tactical Grip Sleeve). Within the space of a few years, EVERYONE was using it. I tried it a few times. It makes the gun slide around a little, adds girth, and makes shooting weak handed way harder. Now, my background was in competitive shooting. So for me it was pretty straight forward. Put it on, shoot some strings, look for improvement. Well, bottom line, there wasn't any improvement, at least for me. And there were some pretty big negatives - the rubber made the grip less consistent, the giant ridge prevented proper high hand placement, and it made it very challenging to shoot a pistol weak handed since you now had this giant bulge in your palm.
But again, in the space of a year or two, just about everyone on the SWAT teams was running this thing. And when you asked people why, they would say "it makes me faster" or "everyone else is running one". But there was never any data to back that up. It was a gimick, and yet no one wanted to miss out.
Ah tuners.
Reminds me of a story. Years ago, one of the FBI's former HRT guys, then serving as a firearms instructor, boondoggled his way to Midsouth as an instructor. He ended up putting together a whole shooting curriculum that was swallowed up organization wide. One of his "epiphanies" was a device, basically this rubber grip sleeve, that added a pronounced rib on the inside of the pistol (Warren Tactical Grip Sleeve). Within the space of a few years, EVERYONE was using it. I tried it a few times. It makes the gun slide around a little, adds girth, and makes shooting weak handed way harder. Now, my background was in competitive shooting. So for me it was pretty straight forward. Put it on, shoot some strings, look for improvement. Well, bottom line, there wasn't any improvement, at least for me. And there were some pretty big negatives - the rubber made the grip less consistent, the giant ridge prevented proper high hand placement, and it made it very challenging to shoot a pistol weak handed since you now had this giant bulge in your palm.
But again, in the space of a year or two, just about everyone on the SWAT teams was running this thing. And when you asked people why, they would say "it makes me faster" or "everyone else is running one". But there was never any data to back that up. It was a gimick, and yet no one wanted to miss out.
Ah tuners.
Tuners certainly work, but there are nuances.
I simply used a balancer that can be moved along the barrel and fixed in the right place.
I will say that the external temperature reduces the accuracy of fire and you need to know where the balancer will improve the accuracy of fire.
But don’t forget about the thermal dependence of your charge
External temp reduces your accuracy? Wtf?
lol.
That’s right, the vibration of the barrel when firing in cold weather will be different than in warm weather.
Metal has different ductility at different temperatures.
In stainless steel barrels, these factors manifest themselves differently than in carbon barrels.
This effect manifests itself very well on light carbon barrels
I suppose you can prove this?
Along with also having any proof what so ever tuners actually work.
Find an ordinary doctor's endoscope, apply it to a metal rod and tap it with equal force in the cold and in the heat and hear for yourself the difference in the sound produced.
Regarding tuners, they work 100%, but there is a dependence on the mass of the tuner and the profile of the barrel
Endoscope?
Sorry Stethoscope
Yes temperature will affect the resonance of metal. Again there is no indication this has any effect on precision.
can you prove tuners work?
Every tuner advocate “Tuners work…trust me….Erik Cortina… Fuck you, you’re dumb”
I do not endorse Eric Cortina's products.
I used a metal tubular clamp weighing 200 grams, which I moved along the barrel to obtain minimal dispersion of bullets on paper. Naturally, this clamp was firmly fixed on the barrel and did not move from rifle shots.
It's pretty clear Eric Cortina has shot his way to the top of the pile.
He has used and designed tuners that work.
And along the way appears to have chapped some ass.
I need to see if he will rebrand and endorse a product for the tuner denyers.
He has used and designed tuners that work.
And along the way appears to have chapped some ass.
I need to see if he will rebrand and endorse a product for the tuner denyers.
Yes, tuners improve the accuracy of the rifle at close shooting distances.
But if your bullet speeds are very different it doesn't make sense
Well I read all eleven pages and after no conclusive evidence, I guess I'll have to draw my own conclusions. 
So, have you tried this product in action?
I shot it a little yesterday. Had some less than stellar ammo to burn in a 300winmag. Didn't really have enough to draw any conclusions.
I'm getting ready to work up another load in that rifle with a 208gr eldm. I'll see how it does then.
What is the barrel contour of your rifle, and what is the barrel material?
Heavy Palma. Stainless.
If you have big problems with your ammo speed, nothing you do to the gun that I know of will fix that.
I only have the ability to measure to the tenth of a grain and that is enough to see results.
In your case, a tuner of such weight will not help.
To change the vibration of a heavy barrel, more weight is needed.
The barrel of your rifle requires a tuner weight of about 300 grams
On what basis?
Do you have any evidence to support this?
If we are gonna use F-class shooters as a metric better tell all those guy's shooting straight 1.250" that their tuners aren't doing anything.
Are you sure about that?In my experience, any extra weight on the barrel or anything that touches it changes harmonics. We shall see.
My first ar10 style rifle was a sig 716 patrol. 16" piston 308. I put a rather large five port brake on it. Looked like it belonged on artillery. Recoil was all but gone and it went from a decent shooting gun to a phenomenal shooting. I'll get flamed for this but I'll say it was a legit half moa gun.
I got to thinking one day that it would look better if the back of the brake was contoured to the barrel. Totally ruined the accuracy. Now we're in 1½ moa territory.
I called the guy I got the brake from and had him cut me another one identical to the first. No joy. Still didn't shoot like the original.
I took a set of pin guages and checked the bore and it was slightly larger than the original by a couple thousandths. I was so pissed off about it I sold the rifle lol.
I've seen changes in groups just changing the end cap on my suppressor. Or running an rsr mount vs direct thread. That should only be a few grams difference right ?
Then there's that rubber donut that limbsaver used to make. I never had one but I saw one in action at my gun club once. It didn't turn the host into a match rifle but groups did change.
It's almost like witchcraft if you ask me. There are so many variables I don't think you could test for all of them.
Do you have a double blind test ? Wheres your data. Prove it.
Haha.. sorry, couldnt resist.
