Debating if I want to or not.
Other than necessity for tight chambers, how many here are turning their necks?
Other than necessity for tight chambers, how many here are turning their necks?
Turning Necks---Who's Doing It? POLL
- Thread starter dariof
- Start date
If using a bushing die without expander ball it is almost required. I have had to turn nks on some brass that was fairly inconsistent thickness also. It was 243&260 lapua brass and nks varied from .0120-.0165 on the same case, my Winchester brass as a comparison was .0130-.0140. Checked multiple cases from both win bags and blue boxes.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
I turned necks on a couple of rifles brass, not because of tight neck chamber, it was an oversized chamber neck. In conjunction with a Redding bushing die, I got donuts from hell.
Unless needed, one must take his shooting way serious to want to turn necks, or point friggin bullets. I still have my stuff, but if I never turn another one, I'll die somewhat happy.
Unless needed, one must take his shooting way serious to want to turn necks, or point friggin bullets. I still have my stuff, but if I never turn another one, I'll die somewhat happy.
Neck turning sucks, but unfortunately it's necessary for maximum brass life (depends on a lot of variables) to get rid of doughnuts, and some due to necking up or down for wildcats and or, a solution to lack of a particular caliber's brass.
Turn necks for all brass used in my precision rifles. Use Type S dies without the expander and turned during initial case prep on new brass.
I tried neck turning a while back, it was a necessity for a couple "tight' necked" chambers on rifles I owned.
I won't go that route again, as other facets of my shooting need more work than having perfect case necks.
I won't go that route again, as other facets of my shooting need more work than having perfect case necks.
I'm using Redding Type S dies With the expander....will this still require neck turning? I am a bit confused about the use of the expander as it relates to neck turning.
I thought if decided to neck turn that I would just measure the diameter of the neck with a ball caliper and turn to uniformity.
If you're using the expander, it's not necessary (neck turning). By using the expander you're pushing any uniformity issue back to the outside of the neck. Without the expander, all the uniformity issues are pushed to the inside of the neck and stay there until you push your bullet in. A good part of the idea behind a bushing die is to use it without the expander and thus reducing the amount of work hardening of the brass by only sizing the neck down enough to get your desired neck tension (it also allows precise control on neck tension). Whereas a traditional die under-sizes it, then the expander will final size it back up to the desired amount.
By not using the expander you have better control over neck tension when using bushing dies as well as eliminating a potential source of runout and using an expander somewhat defeats the purpose. Turning necks to a consistent thickness will generally yield uniform neck tension assuming the hardness of the brass is consistent which is a whole other issue. To measure neck wall thickness you will need a tube micrometer.
It's really a matter of personal preference and what level of results you want to achieve. If you are shooting shorter distances probably not worth the effort. If you are shooting precision at longer distances it may be.
It's really a matter of personal preference and what level of results you want to achieve. If you are shooting shorter distances probably not worth the effort. If you are shooting precision at longer distances it may be.
I'd argue pointing bullets provides a much more tangible and useful benefit than turning necks, as well as being much faster to perform.
We all know a good rifle can easily shoot sub 1/2" groups with unturned ammo, so the increased accuracy of neck turning isn't a huge factor.
Meanwhile, many bullets will shoot .2 or .3 flatter @ 1000 yards, and .1 or .2 less drift from pointing. Once you step up from a 308 to a 6, 6.5 or 7mm cartridge, picking up .1 or .2 in the wind is a big deal!
I can easily point 100 bullets in less than 10 minutes.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
You actually make it sound like by pointing you can lax in your doping? .1 or .2 is miniscule at 1K in the grand scheme of things. You still need to make calculations.
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I started turning case necks back in the mid 1980s. I have 3 or 4 neck turners. Well, I own 4. One has been loaned for 2 years. But only 2 are used that much.
So the consensus is if you're running a bushing die (no expander ball), that neck turning is likely beneficial?
I was under the impression that neck turning was relatively irrelevant since the bushing is ensuring consistent neck tension, but it sounds like it's actually just "transferring" any inconsistencies (due to thickness variation) to the inner neck until the bullet is seated?
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I was under the impression that neck turning was relatively irrelevant since the bushing is ensuring consistent neck tension, but it sounds like it's actually just "transferring" any inconsistencies (due to thickness variation) to the inner neck until the bullet is seated?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Will you expound on this?
Does using the expander cause more runout (less concentricity)?
If I take the expander out (I have a floating carbide one in my Redding S die), would neck turning for concentricity be as likely needed?
If you measure new brass, you will find a few cases where the neck thickness varies quite a bit. That eccentricity of the inner diameter of the neck and the outer diameter of the neck is a source of runout no matter how you size. Eccentric brass encourages crooked seating. Crooked seating results in dispersion (you can test this - try it). It's not a huge effect when your'e talking about 1 MOA rifles. But if you're trying to get consistently under 1/2 MOA or better, it helps a little to eliminate those wild cases. You could just chuck the bad ones and probably do just as well as turning, but measuring them all takes longer than turning them, and turning will clean them all up. Throw in that you also get total control over neck clearance which is a big part of case life, and I think it's worth the time for rifles that I want to wring the most accuracy possible out of.
So, if I turn them, will my Redding S bushing FL die be fine, AND with or without the expander button.
If you turn, the neck thickness on a single case will vary by less than a couple ten thousandths. If you don't, it could be as much as a thou or more from one side of the case neck to the other. The expander or lack thereof doesn't change that. Eccentric is eccentric.
Keep in mind we're talking about very small numbers here. It's getting into benchrest territory.
Keep in mind we're talking about very small numbers here. It's getting into benchrest territory.
Probably not and would depend on what brand of brass you are using. Some makes of brass are fairly uniform and turning is probably not necessary. The most common causes of runout are variance in neck wall thickness within a given case and the expander being drawn through the neck during sizing especially when using standard dies. Neck wall thickness can be addressed to some point by turning but if the variation is greater than .001 that case will always be problematic.
FWIW, the dreaded "donut", I've never had a donut travel up the neck far enough to get to the bullet's bearing surface, so I don't worry about that.
A ball micrometer is what is used to measure neck wall thicknesses.
So, to validate your point, you choose to use 100 yards (I assume, since you mention 1/2" groups) as the basis to prove neck turning is unnecessary, but 1000 yards to prove pointing makes a difference? I wonder what those 1/2" groups at 100 yards would look like at 1000 yards with uneven necks, and the resultant inevitable uneven tension and likely sub-par concentricity?
A ball micrometer is what is used to measure neck wall thicknesses.
So, to validate your point, you choose to use 100 yards (I assume, since you mention 1/2" groups) as the basis to prove neck turning is unnecessary, but 1000 yards to prove pointing makes a difference? I wonder what those 1/2" groups at 100 yards would look like at 1000 yards with uneven necks, and the resultant inevitable uneven tension and likely sub-par concentricity?
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Yes and no.
Using the expander ball negates what the bushing did, the ball is a predetermined size for use in all dies of that CALIBER. So you're really not controlling your neck tension? Lose the silver ball and replace it with the black pin retainer. If your case mouths are dinged, you may have to put the ball on if you don't have an expander die.
