<news caster> This is the rifle...</news caster>
Yes that's the important part of the story, they got the real dangerous criminal off the streets.
Yes that's the important part of the story, they got the real dangerous criminal off the streets.
***UPDATE: CAPTURED*** Escaped killer Danelo Cavalcante has active murder warrant in Brazil as well. Armed and EXTREMELY dangerous.
- Thread starter Blue Sky Country
- Start date
I'm an asshole too.
I didn't say I didn't have cajones, I do.
My experience with folks shooting shotguns in home defense, goes to the years I ran two gun matches.
ON AVERAGE the scores with light dove loads were abysmal. Not my scores, but those who "know how to shoot a shotgun, its easy".
Now when you extrapolate that to include the person who does not train with a shotgun, nor shoot matches, those people will be severely handicapped with a shotgun.
I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking your "skillset" with a combat shotgun.
I'm sure your balls are enormous.
This is the face of someone who loves his job 
. K9 Yoda with BP that brought it to an end.
. K9 Yoda with BP that brought it to an end. Now, get the other 40M+ and see how well he likes it.This is the face of someone who loves his job
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It was a joke. I am sorry that you missed it. I used to roast with professional shit-talkers. I should apologize to you.
And I agree on your points with a shottie.
I also realize there are a number of levels of training. Not everyone is going to be a professional competitor. But if at least they can stop a bad guy, that is also good.
George Peppard was an arrogant smart ass offscreen. He called a short musician a midget on The Tonight Show and the musician threatened to kick his ass. Peppard STFU after that.
My sarcasm meter is busted. I banged it on a couple political Covid posts and it aint worked right since.
This is the face of someone who loves his job
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If you look at the Instagram wide angle pic where the whole group of BP agents were shown posing with the cuffed Cavalcante, you can see that Yoda was straining at his leash literally trying to take a few more chunks out of that POS. Yoda definitely WAS NOT finished with this business yet.
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If there was a bet on what gun over the years outside of military conflict has killed more men, my money would go on the double barrel shotgun.
There's no telling if 10 or 12 was the gauge or if buckshot or birdshot was the predominant load but I'd say birdshot, as the shotgun doubled as the hunting, bird, rabbit gun, chicken protecter well as home protection and dispute settler.
I would not feel undergunned in my home or property with a Savage 311 12 gauge shortened to 18" with a stock mounted side saddle and light taped to it, loaded with single 0 Buck.
There's no telling if 10 or 12 was the gauge or if buckshot or birdshot was the predominant load but I'd say birdshot, as the shotgun doubled as the hunting, bird, rabbit gun, chicken protecter well as home protection and dispute settler.
I would not feel undergunned in my home or property with a Savage 311 12 gauge shortened to 18" with a stock mounted side saddle and light taped to it, loaded with single 0 Buck.
Got ye an ol fowling piece my mate?
Pistol account for the majority in recent years by far in recent years, with suicide being the leading cause. According to a CDC study.
What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the CDC.
www.pewresearch.org ShotGuns are used in 1% of recent Murders(2020).
So while I get the over the years statement and none of this data goes back in time. How many "gunslingers" carried 6 shooter?
Save your shot gun for the birds.
"Recent" murders.Pistol account for the majority in recent years by far in recent years, with suicide being the leading cause. According to a CDC study.
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What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the CDC.
ShotGuns are used in 1% of recent Murders(2020).
So while I get the over the years statement and none of this data goes back in time. How many "gunslingers" carried 6 shooter?
Save your shot gun for the birds.
The handgun is used because of it's portability and concealabilty but to dominate an armed encounter, the shotgun is still the most devastating.
So I'll save my shotgun for birds, coyotes and badguys.
Can't argue that, 1oz slug or some Buck shot will ruin your week.
Especially a mag full of them in a Saiga.
Shotguns are EXTREMELY effective for premises defenses. But like all weapons, if you are going to choose a shotgun, make sure you are proficient at using it. Practice weapon retention and target acquisition while maintaining a frame of mind that geared towards effective defense and keeping track of everything else that is going on around you.
Fighting with a shotgun is a bit similar to fighting with a spear. Retention and manuevering with the weapon, and acquiring the target for a decisive impact. As a matter of fact, the earliest and most crudest of all firearms are shotguns. Some were strapped underneath a spear that discharged a blast of iron and rock pellets at the enemy. 'Thunderlances'. Tianleipao. And modern technology means that thunderlances now can deliver multiple devastating blasts. And they can be equipped with high visibility red dots and other sights that make target acquisition easier.
TRAIN and PRACTICE with whatever weapon you choose. The capability of ANY weapon in existence is useless without the skill and mindset needed to wield it properly.
I had Win. '97. You could hold the trigger and jack that thing off.
With dry fire practice, I got to where I could shoot my 870 Mag. Express almost as fast, enough to shoot three times at a single high flying dove and cause people listening from a distance to think I was shooting a semi auto.
I also took a tactical shotgun class from Louise Awerbuck on a range I shot on when he came through in the late 80's.
With dry fire practice, I got to where I could shoot my 870 Mag. Express almost as fast, enough to shoot three times at a single high flying dove and cause people listening from a distance to think I was shooting a semi auto.
I also took a tactical shotgun class from Louise Awerbuck on a range I shot on when he came through in the late 80's.
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I had Win. '97. You could hold the trigger and jack that thing off.
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I snorted at that part.
97's are VERY stately looking and no-nonsense longarms.
I recommend people who primarily use shotguns to own a pair.
A pair of pumps or levers and bandoliers for each.
One for buck and one for slugs.
Red dot on the one that scatters,
Midrange optic on the one that shatters.
I would NOT feel underarmed at all with that kit.
Sher, on the other hand...
I used to compete in the shotgun sports and have hunted with them all my life so I know them very well. For home defense a standard high brass #4 in 20 gauge is ideal. The payload is 24 - .24 inch (think .243) pellets at 1250 - 1300 fps. Trust me, you don't need a magnum load. High brass will do just fine
#4 buck 20 gauge has been made of un-obtanium for quite a while, but #3 is readily available. Very slight difference - inconsequential. 1 pellet difference and .25 vs .24 diameter between the two loads
It's like more than twice as easy to shoot as a 12 gauge. The 12 gauge is kind of overkill for home defense and over penetrates - goes trough walls. It carries 9 pellets in .36 caliber in #00 buck which is not that many. It was really made to shoot deer.
What most people don't know is that all shotguns of all gauges have very similar velocities when comparing apples to apples low brass, high brass, etc. The difference is in the payload which is stated in ounces on the box. More payload more powder more recoil more dispersion. Simple physics. The smaller the gauge (the tube) the tighter the pattern.
A 20 gauge high brass #3 buck shell runs 1250~1300 FPS and way faster shooting than any machine gun. #3 buck is 23 - .25 caliber pellets with each pull of the trigger. It's hamburger helper devastating on thin skinned critters - humans included. It was never made for deer sized game like the #00 12 gauge.
I actually test patterned my 20 gauge on a full size silhouette with the #3 buck. With the modified choke all pellets went into a 6 inch pattern at 25 feet. The Improved cylinder pattern was ~9-inches.
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TLDR
So have I. I am 54. Ive run matches watching the average "buy a shotgun" people shoot them. Watch them fail miserably when a timer beeps.
Which is why I assert that a shotgun is a poor choice for a majority of people ESPECIALLY wimmerns.
Yes, a good 2-3/4 turkey load is plenty for inside the average home. If you live in a 6000ft² home, that idea changes.
If you live in a 6000ft² home, then your bodyguards and security staff can take care of it, and then the maids can clean up the mess.
I liked it when certain rednecks shot my 18" Savage 311 loaded with 00 from the hip at a target on the ground at 25-30 feet, thinking it would be a 'scattergun' like in Hollywood westerns and completely miss, plowing up a 1' wide hole in the dirt.
#3 or #4 would shred anything inside a home and would even do a number on a charging bear's head.
I have yet to see a woman that cannot handle a fitting 20 gauge. On the contrary.
Tell you a story. Back in the day - 40 years or so ago, the then head of the citrus grower association in FL would throw a Christmas party every year at their place. Huge property, surrounded by orange groves and a huge manicured house and surrounds within, plus it had a 5 hole par three course in the backyard and they would tell invitees to bring shotguns as well for a late afternoon before dinner shoot at clays and all the doves that flew in nightly.
I got invited to those parties - family thing. Lots of fun. Brought my 20 gauge over and under Browning Lighting superlight, and my golf clubs too
.I was good enough then that I was assigned to not let any clay or dove survive. Someone missed, I'd shoot.
All of the women, even new to shotguns, could handle a 20 gauge, some quite well. No issues at all.
Remember, all shotguns are point and shoot - instinct. While a #3 buck 20 gauge demands about a 6- 9 inch pattern accuracy at 25 feet. Most every woman I know can point a 26-inch barreled 20 gauge and do that. Maybe not the first time, but very quickly after that with some minor instructions.
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not saying SG is best HD weapon but i always felt that a 20g side by side mule ear is the best HD shogun. always loaded,never in battery,easy to cock in the dark. you have to make a deliberate move for it to be ready to fire. if you need more than that for an intruder,you might have insurmountable problems,needing AK/AR. auto loaders OK but always cocked and in battery. spring issues and saftey. pumps worst thing possible. i too have spent 1000s of 12g hunting and trap. 1st time i shot a pump at thrown clays after a 10yr layoff i would short stroke a bunch. an inexperienced shooter,scared shitless is gonna short stroke 2nd shot. combat pumps are meant to be used by experienced/trained infantry in close quarters,usually the point guy.
Me included. To this day I have a really hard time with pumps. Could never get used to them because I started with a semi autos and ever since 40 years past all my scatter guns have been over and under. They just point so sweet! No one I know uses a side by side competitively - all O/Us.
Of course a person that grew up shooting a pump would have no issues. Side by sides, almost as good as over and under, but no quite - they pull left and right.
All modern double barrel shot guns have excellent safeties - loaded is not an issue, and they only take a couple of seconds to load anyways if the shells are right there. Mine are not ever loaded. I have a handgun handy so I can get to my shotgun.
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agree ou much better for sport unless you grew up with s/s. my point was re mule eared s/s and saftey. hammers always at 1/2 cock,never in battery and easy to put that way. LOL if you can find a norinco or italian these days. ou just thumb saftey and always in battery. just my .02.