Used or build it?

Build or Buy?

  • Build

    Votes: 23 52.3%
  • Buy Used

    Votes: 23 52.3%

  • Total voters
    44

ajv35XX

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  • Dec 9, 2013
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    Issue: I don’t have a LR rifle in the stable currently, and I’ve been saving some coin for one. I am either gonna build a rig with an Origin, or, the wild card is, I have a line on a used custom 700 that checks almost all the boxes, except it’s a 700...

    What does everyone say? I know it’s the Indian not the Arrow, so does the action choice really matter that much? Would grabbing the already built 700 be a better choice then having to wait on a build? (Last I checked Origins are 6-10 weeks out, then having the smith throw it together).
     

    Krob95

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    Issue: I don’t have a LR rifle in the stable currently, and I’ve been saving some coin for one. I am either gonna build a rig with an Origin, or, the wild card is, I have a line on a used custom 700 that checks almost all the boxes, except it’s a 700...

    What does everyone say? I know it’s the Indian not the Arrow, so does the action choice really matter that much? Would grabbing the already built 700 be a better choice then having to wait on a build? (Last I checked Origins are 6-10 weeks out, then having the smith throw it together).
    Build unless you can find a Used built custom ready to go. Maybe call MHSA and see what they have and how soon they can have you squared away.
     
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    b6graham

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    Probably not very hard to find an origin in stock somewhere. Could get a whole rifle put together from Altus or Mile High in a few days I assume
     
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    reubenski

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    Origin for sure. No question. Adaptable bolt faces, prefit compatible, slick coating. Like b6graham said, you could order the parts and assemble it yourself easier than an AR15.
     
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    ajv35XX

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    So far staying with the build plan is the winner. Thanks so far everyone.
     

    Maxduty

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    Surprised the German hasn't popped in here. Stop being a poor. Buy the 700 to shoot now, order the custom, sell the 700 when the custom comes in.
     
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    b6graham

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    Surprised the German hasn't popped in here. Stop being a poor. Buy the 700 to shoot now, order the custom, sell the 700 when the custom comes in.
    buy a rifle for the 5 day wait for everything to arrive? makes sense.
     
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    deersniper

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    Post a WTB in the for sale section. Might be surprised what you can find cheap or reasonably priced
     

    gearguywb

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    Ii need to do some research on the pre-fit barrels. Sounds interesting
     

    ajv35XX

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    Surprised the German hasn't popped in here. Stop being a poor. Buy the 700 to shoot now, order the custom, sell the 700 when the custom comes in.
    He would probably say to get a MRAD, and if I could is spring for one of those or an AI
     
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    ajv35XX

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    probably safe to assume the $2-3000 mark
    Definitely trying to stay under $2K; I’ve been pricing it out and if I snag a barrel from John at Keystone for the Origin I should be pretty G2G.
     

    b6graham

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    Definitely trying to stay under $2K; I’ve been pricing it out and if I snag a barrel from John at Keystone for the Origin I should be pretty G2G.
    PVA and proof will hit that budget too

    remember you can use TL3 barrels with a HLR lug. sometimes can find some in the PX or in stock
     

    ajv35XX

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    PVA and proof will hit that budget too

    remember you can use TL3 barrels with a HLR lug. sometimes can find some in the PX or in stock
    I’ve looked at the HLR lug on Ryan’s website and sent him a message. Definitely something in considering with Josh’s barrels, and the Proofs with ExpertVoice.
     

    fdkay

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    Definitely trying to stay under $2K; I’ve been pricing it out and if I snag a barrel from John at Keystone for the Origin I should be pretty G2G.
    GAP has just announced a "production" class PRS rifle, that will get you in a custom with limited options.
    There are others like the badrock available as well.
    They are designed to fall into the 2000 dollar range.
     

    ajv35XX

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    GAP has just announced a "production" class PRS rifle, that will get you in a custom with limited options.
    There are others like the badrock available as well.
    They are designed to fall into the 2000 dollar range.
    I’ve looked at both the GAP and Badrock; I like the GAP but the caliber choice is what throws me off (I’m pretty set on a this being a 308 ).

    Right now I’m highly leaning towards the Origin, possibly with the HLR lug. With barrel, TT primary, and KRG Bravo I’m under budget so far.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    Issue: I don’t have a LR rifle in the stable currently, and I’ve been saving some coin for one. I am either gonna build a rig with an Origin, or, the wild card is, I have a line on a used custom 700 that checks almost all the boxes, except it’s a 700...

    What does everyone say? I know it’s the Indian not the Arrow, so does the action choice really matter that much? Would grabbing the already built 700 be a better choice then having to wait on a build? (Last I checked Origins are 6-10 weeks out, then having the smith throw it together).

    I'm opinionated and jaded. Filter accordingly.

    I've built enough rifles on M700's to feel comfortable stating that they are more than capable as a foundation for an accurate rifle. Just as accurate as any whiz-bang aftermarket receiver is. A very large portion of the aftermarket receiver game is an M700 in a nicer suit of clothes. If the design was really "that flawed" it would stand to reason that folks would not clone them in the numbers they do. With over 5 million of them in circulation, it speaks volumes to the design.

    Last, there is a whole lot more to building a rifle than just producing groups that make your buddies envious. To truly move the soul a rifle should have details paid attention to. Experience and assets are what deliver this when gunmaking.

    Do as you wish with this information, but if anyone is telling you that your choice is flawed because it doesn't have a flashy name on the side of the action, that would be an interesting discussion.

    C.
     
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    ajv35XX

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    I'm opinionated and jaded. Filter accordingly.

    I've built enough rifles on M700's to feel comfortable stating that they are more than capable as a foundation for an accurate rifle. Just as accurate as any whiz-bang aftermarket receiver is. A very large portion of the aftermarket receiver game is an M700 in a nicer suit of clothes. If the design was really "that flawed" it would stand to reason that folks would not clone them in the numbers they do. With over 5 million of them in circulation, it speaks volumes to the design.

    Last, there is a whole lot more to building a rifle than just producing groups that make your buddies envious. To truly move the soul a rifle should have details paid attention to. Experience and assets are what deliver this when gunmaking.

    Do as you wish with this information, but if anyone is telling you that your choice is flawed because it doesn't have a flashy name on the side of the action, I welcome that debate.

    C.
    Sir,

    Thats why in my post I made the comment about knowing it’s the Indian, not the arrow. I’m curious to hear more about what you think a trued up 700 holds to something like the Origin action?
     

    loveha

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    Sir,

    Thats why in my post I made the comment about knowing it’s the Indian, not the arrow. I’m curious to hear more about what you think a trued up 700 holds to something like the Origin action?
    I was going to mention getting the 700 trued and DLC during the winter of you don't shoot a lot then. It's still just a 700 and you have to ask your self, will I be happy. At the end of the day, an action is just a transfer box that moves rounds from one location to the next. How satisfied you are with how it accomplishes this task is up to you. That is why I said if you can try it out.

    Once a barrel is spun up at the smith with receiver in hand the dimensions should be on file with that smith. Then it's just a phone call when you need a new barrel if you are comfortable doing the work your self and if the smith will ship out barrels that aren't "prefits".
     
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    ajv35XX

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    I was going to mention getting the 700 trued and DLC during the winter of you don't shoot a lot then. It's still just a 700 and you have to ask your self, will I be happy. At the end of the day, an action is just a transfer box that moves rounds from one location to the next. How satisfied you are with how it accomplishes this task is up to you. That is why I said if you can try it out.

    Once a barrel is spun up at the smith with receiver in hand the dimensions should be on file with that smith. Then it's just a phone call when you need a new barrel if you are comfortable doing the work your self and if the smith will ship out barrels that aren't "prefits".
    The one I did find has already been fully worked over by APA and has a Manners stock and a few other features, but you hit the nail on the head with will I be happy with a 700 or the Origin, which I have wanted for a bit now. The rifles not able to be looked at in person btw.

    Ive been watching videos on how to swap barrels at home, and I already plan on snagging a Viper barrel vise and the action wrench to make life easier.
     

    Lesch

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    I have noticed that many post custom rifles with custom actions for sale. Most start like " over$5000 invested. Looking to get $3200" and usually settle for less. Not always but it has happened. So if I am losing $1800 or more, how does that make a better choice than a 700? I will spend the extra on my next build just to have one. I never plan on selling it so resale value is no concern. But what do I know .....
     

    spife7980

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    I have noticed that many post custom rifles with custom actions for sale. Most start like " over$5000 invested. Looking to get $3200" and usually settle for less. Not always but it has happened. So if I am losing $1800 or more, how does that make a better choice than a 700? I will spend the extra on my next build just to have one. I never plan on selling it so resale value is no concern. But what do I know .....
    That’s because they paid smithing fees usually. Assemble it yourself and you can save the expense.
     

    reubenski

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    I'm opinionated and jaded. Filter accordingly.

    I've built enough rifles on M700's to feel comfortable stating that they are more than capable as a foundation for an accurate rifle. Just as accurate as any whiz-bang aftermarket receiver is. A very large portion of the aftermarket receiver game is an M700 in a nicer suit of clothes. If the design was really "that flawed" it would stand to reason that folks would not clone them in the numbers they do. With over 5 million of them in circulation, it speaks volumes to the design.

    Last, there is a whole lot more to building a rifle than just producing groups that make your buddies envious. To truly move the soul a rifle should have details paid attention to. Experience and assets are what deliver this when gunmaking.

    Do as you wish with this information, but if anyone is telling you that your choice is flawed because it doesn't have a flashy name on the side of the action, that would be an interesting discussion.

    C.
    I had one of your barreled action group buys. I was not impressed. An $825 Origin is a much better deal than a $920 R700 that takes 3 months to make.
     

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    WillHugh

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    Start cruising the PX on here, you'll be surprised what you can find with a little patience. I snagged a full custom built Stiller 6.5 barreled action and a Manners T5a for a whopping combined $1,600. Only a few hundred rounds down the barrel, load development is done, and I'll have it together in less than a week. Plus I freed up some cash for two other members to build something new.

    - Will
     

    Lesch

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    That’s because they paid smithing fees usually. Assemble it yourself and you can save the expense.
    I agree with assemble it yourself. I was just making reference to people saying you won't get your money back because it's a 700 action. Seems like the custom actions don't hold their value either. Just my 2 cents....which isnt worth that....
     
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    10X Rifles

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    Listen to Chad at LRI. Even though he's a Uncle Sam's Misguided Child, Don't hold that against him. You want a
    Timex that will take a lickin and keep on ticking! He just did a M-16 extractor for me. Called me personally to tell me that they had put the dual extractor in accidently. Did not charge me for the extractor. Thank you Chad!
    A Rem 700 may not bring you extra money when you want to sell it. But it will keep working. Also it's the 350 Chevy of the gun world, Lots of extra parts!
    Retired USN shooting team member.
     

    impactaddict

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    @WillHugh is right... Used customs are where its at! Look around on the PX here or post a WTB ad with what you're looking for. I'd bet someone has something that will scratch that itch for you. Hell, you can even find a used AI for a reasonable price if you're patient!
     
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    rth1800

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    No rifle is going to sell today for cost to build. Not happening. For the dollar minded you could compute the average cost/sale price ratio for various action/builder options.

    If cost is slightly a concern buy used, get it next week.

    Not sure what is going on with LRI delivery time and coms but something has radically changed there in last 3 months. Like night and day.
     

    Mauser06

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    Like reubenski pointed out, most times by the time a m700 is squared up and additional features added, your at comparable prices to most custom actions which have the additional features and are built to better specs.

    I debated the same. I have a m700 that could be rebarreled. By the time I have it trued, firing pin bushed (it's huge and craters primers) a 20moa rail, pinned recoil lug, I can buy a custom that already has all those and more. Not to mention other features and such. I think I'm going with a Kelbly Atlas Tactical...it's already coated.. Kelblys isn't far and they can chamber barrels for me without having the action.


    Most stocks/chassis for many of the popular actions don't require much work. If you want to bed, it's not rocket science. No idea why guys wait months and months and pay for Smith fees aside from custom inletting and bedding or something. Chamber jobs are a few hundred bucks. I can't think of what else a smith is needed for unless your having the trigger and ignition timed or other custom work.



    That's where I'm at. Just hoping to find the stock I want in the PX and can't post there yet. Lol.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    Sir,

    Thats why in my post I made the comment about knowing it’s the Indian, not the arrow. I’m curious to hear more about what you think a trued up 700 holds to something like the Origin action?

    In 2003 I managed to bully, lie, cheat, and steal my way onto the US Palma Team as a "gun plumber". As expected, every marquee level product made for iron sight long-range shooting sat before my eyes. Then there's Norm...

    Norm Crawford. A retired Sgt Major from the behind the fence. He was shooting an M700 that someone had tuned up for him. It was bedded in a McMillan prone stock. One of the old ones that resembled an Anschutz 54 Prone. So there he was, sprawled out on a beat-up old shooting mat and absolutely "Prison sexing" the X ring.

    If you erased the names and shuffled the plot sheets, you'd of never been able to tell his from anyone else. Now, at this level of the game were talking about the top 1% of long-distance iron sight position shooters on the planet. You compete against 52 different world countries at worlds. Having your equipment well set up to perform on command is a big deal.

    Yet there it was. A pawn shop grade Remington that ran right next to all the race cars of the time.

    Need more?

    Middelton Tompkins, Nancy Gallagher, Michelle, and Sheri are all friends of mine. I've known them since I was 19 years old shooting on the Camp Pendelton Rifle Team back in the early 90's. Mid has been shooting competitively since the 1960's. He'd been on FIFTY US Palma teams consecutively. (wow!)

    There was a time when he shot high-power match rifle and he swore by the Winchester Model 70 in the controlled round feed setup.

    My point here isn't to jade you with yet another action choice. It's merely to demonstrate that most any platform can be made to task. If we look at scores from 5, 10, 20, 30+ years ago to now, have they really gotten that much better? The X counts go up a little bit, but a clean is still a clean. I could shoot cleans with 60% X counts with an M14 back in the day. There was a time in my youth when I was chasing down the national high-power 200 rapid record pretty seriously. I was getting close to matching it. (200/17x)

    Is all this from an action or is it from a better bullet, powder, and someone's commitment to train in a profitable manner?

    You decide.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    I had one of your barreled action group buys. I was not impressed. An $825 Origin is a much better deal than a $920 R700 that takes 3 months to make.

    Well, sorry to hear that. My only comfort is you are the exception to the rule. Having literally done thousands of these for people, it would stand to reason I'd of been run off a long time ago if this was the norm.

    Had we known about this, something could have been done about it. It is interesting though that this the venue you chose to say something. -3 years later. I get marking out your name for privacy, but the invoice number?

    I guess everyone is entitled to read your rant, but I don't get the opportunity to try and do something about it?

    Noted...
     
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    LongRifles Inc.

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    No rifle is going to sell today for cost to build. Not happening. For the dollar minded you could compute the average cost/sale price ratio for various action/builder options.

    If cost is slightly a concern buy used, get it next week.

    Not sure what is going on with LRI delivery time and coms but something has radically changed there in last 3 months. Like night and day.

    It's just been that busy. I've been here 6.5 days a week for the last 8 weeks. If you saw the volume of inbound and outbound you would understand immediately.

    I have 4 phone lines coming into this place. It is not uncommon for all of them to be in use. At some point, I have to say enough is enough. We earn our living by doing physical work, not by talking on the phone. If you miss us, its because the lines are tied up. That balance is never easy and yet, our communication is still leaps and bounds ahead of our competitors.

    You are one complaint. I get hundreds of phone calls per month and people routinely thank us for how I run my business.

    Add to this that I put another machine on the floor in February. Were just now starting to get somewhere with it. Nothing is ever as fast or as painless as I'd like it to be.

    Keep in mind also that this "end of humanity bug" has impacted us just like it has everyone else.
     
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    reubenski

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    Well, sorry to hear that. My only comfort is you are the exception to the rule. Having literally done thousands of these for people, it would stand to reason I'd of been run off a long time ago if this was the norm.

    Had we known about this, something could have been done about it.
    I emailed you. No response. I've held my tongue for a while. Couple of years actually. But every time I see you weigh in on the whole R700 vs custom debate, this comes to mind. I respectfully disagree about the trued R700. I do think you all do many things well and your prices and lead times are great. But my experience with an assembly line heavily modified and trued 700 wasn't awesome. It wasn't nearly my first 700. But I realized the limitations after that purchase.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    I emailed you. No response. I've held my tongue for a while. Couple of years actually. But every time I see you weigh in on the whole R700 vs custom debate, this comes to mind. I respectfully disagree about the trued R700. I do think you all do many things well and your prices and lead times are great. But my experience with an assembly line heavily modified and trued 700 wasn't awesome. It wasn't nearly my first 700. But I realized the limitations after that purchase.

    Did you ever try to call us?
     

    rth1800

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    It's just been that busy. I've been here 6.5 days a week for the last 8 weeks. If you saw the volume of inbound and outbound you would understand immediately.

    I have 4 phone lines coming into this place. It is not uncommon for all of them to be in use. At some point, I have to say enough is enough. We earn our living by doing physical work, not by talking on the phone. If you miss us, its because the lines are tied up. That balance is never easy and yet, our communication is still leaps and bounds ahead of our competitors.

    You are one complaint. I get hundreds of phone calls per month and people routinely thank us for how I run my business.

    Add to this that I put another machine on the floor in February. Were just now starting to get somewhere with it. Nothing is ever as fast or as painless as I'd like it to be.

    Keep in mind also that this "end of humanity bug" has impacted us just like it has everyone else.
    Chad,

    I did not complain. Simply made a statement. Sorry you took it that way.
     

    ajv35XX

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    Appreciate everyone’s Knowledge and help with this one; I bit the billet and have an Origin BA on order in 308 from a Smith. Now I gotta go back to ramen and picking cans up on the side of the road to for a bit.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    I emailed you. No response. I've held my tongue for a while. Couple of years actually. But every time I see you weigh in on the whole R700 vs custom debate, this comes to mind. I respectfully disagree about the trued R700. I do think you all do many things well and your prices and lead times are great. But my experience with an assembly line heavily modified and trued 700 wasn't awesome. It wasn't nearly my first 700. But I realized the limitations after that purchase.



    First, I let stuff like this get to me probably more than it should. I do this because I feel like I need to if my business is to ever have any resemblance of success. 2nd, my wife is part bloodhound and when something smells wrong, she will stay up for days researching until the facts appear. The two of us make a pair in that regard. So, moving forward... I keep really good records and my wife makes sure they are excellent records. It took her less than 10 minutes to figure out exactly who you are, when your parts were here, every single email ever sent during the duration of their stay, and prior, along with the projected time that your stuff would be here.

    Facts:

    • Your serial number ended in 783G
    • You were logged into LRI's A/D books on 8.22.2016 by Kalli.
    • This action was purchased 3rd party and sent to us by them. You were required to submit a 4473 prior to taking possession.
    • 16 emails sent between your email (. . . staff@gmail.com) and my shops (contact@longriflesinc.com) addresses regarding details of this order begining on August 14, 2016 and ending on November 3rd, 2016.
    • With the exception of the email covering the formal quote we generated, all of those emails were all answered within 12-24 hours of being sent.
    • The email dated Monday, August 15th, 2016 states in its opening line that the LRI Group Buy Special has a 10-12 week rotation.
    • Your rifle was dispositioned on 11.15.16. 85 days to be exact which is exactly 12 weeks. The email dated 11.3.16 from you details how you struggled to locate a TB CBA muzzle break. If you recall, we were supposed to install it with no peel washers which is difficult to do when the part you are sourcing is not here. -This is where the bulk of the wait time originated from. Waiting on you to provide the part you said you were providing.
    There is a 17th email dated January 7th, 2017. Just like you said, there was no reply. It was found yesterday unopened. We never saw it. It describes the issues you were having:

    • It states how you took a top 10 slot in a local match
    • 130 grain Hybrids run sub half minute with .2" groups at around 50% of your strings
    • You had some light strikes. Inspection by a 3rd party smith found the following: A "short" striker spring and some Cerakote that was heavier than what he likes in your bolt shroud. (1)
    • A chassis that was reluctant to feed your AW magazines (2)
    • You struggled to match the headspace we have documented as setting the rifle to. (3)
    • You claim our barrel threads were "loose" and this was discovered/documented by a 3rd party shop/smith (4)
    • Your parting remarks detail that overall you enjoy the rifle and that I am not to take this as a "passive-aggressive complaint". (your words) (5)
    • Your final words: "I consider the BA you built for me a great buy." (6)

    Response to (1)
    LRI has had a standing policy regarding returns, rework, complaints, and anything else related to fixing a mistake: That policy is to let us know about the problem and to get it back to us. Document what you paid for the shipping and you will be reimbursed in either the form of a check or with store credit. That choice lies solely with the client to decide. This has been on the books from DAY ONE of me announcing to the world that I have a gun shop. Anyone on this site who has ever had a problem can validate that piece of information.

    Response to (2)
    We never had a chassis stock for this rifle sent to us by you. All we did was put a barreled action together. This can be verified by the invoice you posted detailing the work. No fitting of any kind mentioned or charged. If you think for a moment that guns don't occasionally require some kind of fitting work I'm here to tell you that is not the case. There are no prints for AIAW magazine cuts on a Remington M700. At best shops are attempting to clone/copy what any number of OEM's are doing. Now add a 3rd party to the mix. Another company completely on their own making the rifle stock. Does the installed height of the action exactly match other brands? I'm here to tell you they don't. Heights between receiver bore and magazine vary. Latch height on magazines vary. Magazines themselves live within a tolerance that is set by each and every individual magazine manufacturer. I have no crystal ball to know exactly how you are ultimately going to end up putting things together. Again, had a 5 minute phone call taken place, this would have been solved.

    Response to (3)
    Your rifle was chambered in 6.5x47 Lapua. I have the build sheet in front of me. It left our facility headspace at a value of "GO gauge + .001". I have no less than around 8 Pacific Tool and Gauge 308 Go Headspace gauges. I used to buy a gauge for every reamer I ever bought as a standard practice so that one tool&one gauge could live side by side in the tooling drawer. The idea was to keep continuity and make things move in the shop smoothly.

    I had an issue once where a Palma rifle I'd done was long on HS and the owner was struggling to get it sorted out. Further inspection revealed that these gauges were not consistent. Not by gauging standards. Not even close... It was yet another lesson as to why PTG is on my permanent ban list for future business. In the 5th paragraph of your January email, you plainly state that PTG also made the gauge you have. If I can have 8 different GO gauges of the same cartridge on my floor from one vendor and they vary, what are the odds that the gauge you and I have are identical? There are a few ways to validate that question. One is with no contact part inspection using an optical comparator. I have one of those. Does this other smith who told you it was out by .002? I would be curious to see where that rabbit hole lead to.

    Response to (4)
    Loose threads. Quite frankly, your "smith" does not know what he is talking about. CNC machines don't just suddenly decide to cut an internal thread big. It's actually the polar opposite. If a tool wears it's going to make the hole smaller, not bigger. The exact opposite is true with barrel threads. They will always cut larger on the pitch diameter with tool wear.

    This "thing" that exists in gunsmithing where a barrel is thought that it must fit a receiver like a thimble on a micrometer if it is to ever produce acceptable performance. It is perpetuated by people who fail to understand how threads even work. Under load, the flank of the thread pushes against the opposing flank. It has a self-centering tendency. A threaded joint is nothing more than a spring working in linear tension with a tiny amount of torsion thrown in as well.

    I use 1.085-16 as my standard thread pitch for M700 receiver blueprinting work. I have a single plug gauge made by West Port gauging. It is heat-treated, hard chromed, and ground. I paid almost $800.00 for that gauge because the threads are not a typical size. Every single action we do is qualified off that gauge. The opposing side (barrel) is fitted to a ring gauge made the same way. It's a pass or fail exercise. Have we had a mistake before? You bet we have and in every circumstance, I have either replaced or repaired that action AFTER calling and advising the customer about what happened. I have one cardinal rule about this: I never, never, ever call a client to advise them of a problem without first having worked out a solution. It's been that way for the 12 years I've been in business.

    Ask anyone.

    The threads on your parts were in tolerance.

    Response to (5) and (6)
    Your own hand in the email plainly states that you are happy with the gun. 16 out of 17 emails were answered within 12 to 24 hours. We finished the job in the timeframe quoted. A portion of that time exists because we were told to wait for a part you were supposed to supply. ONE email, sent almost 3 months later got overlooked. Our phone number is plainly listed on our website and in the signature block of every email that leaves this place.

    This was an easy, easy problem to solve. Why you chose to bite your tongue for 3 years is on you, sir. Not me. FWIW my wife takes a deep and very personal interest in making sure that people feel good about spending money in this place. She is the voice of this company and if you ask anyone they will very likely tell you that speaking with her is always a pleasure.

    It's my fault your last email was missed and I do apologize for that however there are some deep underlying inconsistencies here that facts fail to support.

    All the best,


    Chad
    LRI


    Facts. Without them, you have an opinion.
    -Paul Yost
     
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