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Used vehicle prices

Car prices do not really seem to be coming down much. I see availability is up, every dealer new or used seems to actually have cars now, but prices are still crazy. I also notice the new cars a couple dealers have are the ones with the most possible accessories and upgrades on them (read: the most expensive for the model) and that is some bullshit.

Places like carmax (cock sucker central) want more money for a used car than a dealer wants for a new one.

I could use another car (won't get rid of any, just add to the fleet) but I don't need another car. I will wait.

I keep hearing the real crash won't be until next year now (2024) I can wait. Even if the trick is to find a depressed area and travel to buy a car.

After my buying experience in 2021 and dealers being bigger cocks than I have seen before, I really despise them even more now. Dealers can all choke on 10 bags of the biggest dicks in history.
 
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I will continue to wait for more reasonable prices, whatever the hell that is. Until then I'll put a little money into the current fleet.
Low mileage used vehicles around here are ridiculously priced, some more than they cost new a few years ago. Dealers/car salesemen can sukitt!
 
Interest rates will cause vehicle prices to fall back to at least normal with no add on bs
That won't happen. Wages re going up to simply off set inflation... Prices will never return to pr-pandemic levels.
Biden is giving government worker's a raise. That is 15% of the population right there.
Government is giving out free money to help those that can't manage their money.
 
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Car prices do not really seem to be coming down much. I see availability is up, every dealer new or used seems to actually have cars now, but prices are still crazy. I also notice the new cars a couple dealers have are the ones with the most possible accessories and upgrades on them (read: the most expensive for the model) and that is some bullshit.

Places like carmax (cock sucker central) want more money for a used car than a dealer wants for a new one.

I could use another car (won't get rid of any, just add to the fleet) but I don't need another car. I will wait.

I keep hearing the real crash won't be until next year now (2024) I can wait. Even if the trick is to find a depressed area and travel to buy a car.

After my buying experience in 2021 and dealers being bigger cocks than I have seen before, I really despise them even more now. Dealers can all choke on 10 bags of the biggest dicks in history.
The big manufacturer's are "adapting" for a 2024 recession.... Less inventory, inflation factored in, smaller work force, more defective imports from China, American's dumber by the day, lots of streaming entertainment and free food hand outs.
The theme for 2024 = Pay more and get less.
 
That won't happen. Wages re going up to simply off set inflation... Prices will never return to pr-pandemic levels.
Biden is giving government worker's a raise. That is 15% of the population right there.
Government is giving out free money to help those that can't manage their money.
I still think there will be less 60 and 72 month loans to the irresponsible turds
 
Used cars are not always a deal. You have to look at each individual case, simply stating 'buy used its better' is completely dated and out of touch with reality.

I have purchased both new and used

I purchased a car new in 2005, I am still driving it today and it is in amazing shape (inside and out)
In 2005 I paid about the same for the new car as a similar used one with 15,000 miles on it would have cost me

Lets just give the used car a fake advantage, let's say I could have gotten the used car $2000 less at purchase time
over 18 years that is about $112 per year I would have saved.
I have made no unexpected repairs on my 2005 car, only maintenance, and I have record of every oil change and every maintenance cycle done correctly and done with Toyota parts only (or synthetic oil).

Warranties have a cash value, that has to also be added (new or used)

Totally not worth saving the $2k or $112 per year to me. but that is made up savings, reality was there was no savings. In 2005 I bought the car 20% below MSRP posted on the sticker (yes that was totally possible in 2005)

The federal government will let you expense 65.5 cents per mile from your taxes if you travel in a personal vehicle that qualifies for a deduction (not worried about the taxes part of this, but value of 65 cents per mile is key)

I know that 65 cents per mile includes gas and insurance, etc, etc so not all of the govt per mile cost goes to depreciation and maintenance costs

I promise you this, that used vehicle you are buying is NOT properly adjusted for mileage

If the govt rate doesn't make it clear, look at edmunds total cost of ownership
5 years, 15,000 miles per year, here is what it costs the average person
2021 camry used as example

$22,865 is your out of pocket expense for 5 years 15,000 miles per year according to edmunds (not including fuel or insurance etc that are not per mile costs)
that breaks down to about 30 cents per mile, lets go even cheaper, lets knock that down to 20 cents per mile and say we do our own maintenance and saved some money

Now go find that used car you think is a deal. It has 30,000 miles on it, I might add the best smoothest quietest most trouble free miles, the 'premium miles' but I will not add a premium value even though to be fair I should.

30,000 * .20 = $6000

Are you really buying that used car for $6000 less than the new one?

30,000 * .30 = $9000

now you see what a bad deal a used car can be when adjusted for mileage?
Taking into account common numbers that the car industry or the federal govt agree is cost per mile (with some LOWERED estimation on my part)

If you think the math is flawed, then what does it cost to drive 1 mile?

Maintenance + repairs + taxes + fees + depreciation + financing as most people have to add it.

The reason used car prices are so high is people are fucking stupid.

Used cars are also harder to finance and usually have higher rates (yes I know many credit unions will do a good rate used, but my statement probably covers 80%)


Look at the specific deals you are able to find and crunch numbers, negotiate and don't be a bitch. I can't buy a reasonable used car cause too many dumb bitches are out there overpaying.
 
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I still think there will be less 60 and 72 month loans to the irresponsible turds
Best wake up....
Big names in Silicon Valley and the finance sector are calling publicly for the federal government to push another bank to assume Silicon Valley Bank's assets and obligations after the financial institution failed on Friday.
Those banks, again, are still too big to fali... Deja Vu.
This is just "History Repeating" except the articles are now talking in Billions and not Millions like the S&L Crash.
Head over to your local dealer and check on a 72 month loan on a $100k Ford pickup. Get back to us on what they say.
Check my math... That loan will be paid off in mid 2029.....
The crash will happen during 2024... Still leaves 5 more years on that loan.
No worries, the FED Reserve and the US Government will just print more money.
Going to take a wheel barrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread.
Bread 1.jpg
 
Best wake up....
Big names in Silicon Valley and the finance sector are calling publicly for the federal government to push another bank to assume Silicon Valley Bank's assets and obligations after the financial institution failed on Friday.
Those banks, again, are still too big to fali... Deja Vu.
This is just "History Repeating" except the articles are now talking in Billions and not Millions like the S&L Crash.
Head over to your local dealer and check on a 72 month loan on a $100k Ford pickup. Get back to us on what they say.
Check my math... That loan will be paid off in mid 2029.....
The crash will happen during 2024... Still leaves 5 more years on that loan.
No worries, the FED Reserve and the US Government will just print more money.
Going to take a wheel barrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread.
View attachment 8093995
Hey @Bender

Who’s to blame again?

Who’s stealing our money again ?
 
Used cars are not always a deal. You have to look at each individual case, simply stating 'buy used its better' is completely dated and out of touch with reality.

I have purchased both new and used

I purchased a car new in 2005, I am still driving it today and it is in amazing shape (inside and out)
In 2005 I paid about the same for the new car as a similar used one with 15,000 miles on it would have cost me

Lets just give the used car a fake advantage, let's say I could have gotten the used car $2000 less at purchase time
over 18 years that is about $112 per year I would have saved.
I have made no unexpected repairs on my 2005 car, only maintenance, and I have record of every oil change and every maintenance cycle done correctly and done with Toyota parts only (or synthetic oil).

Warranties have a cash value, that has to also be added (new or used)

Totally not worth saving the $2k or $112 per year to me. but that is made up savings, reality was there was no savings. In 2005 I bought the car 20% below MSRP posted on the sticker (yes that was totally possible in 2005)

The federal government will let you expense 65.5 cents per mile from your taxes if you travel in a personal vehicle that qualifies for a deduction (not worried about the taxes part of this, but value of 65 cents per mile is key)

I know that 65 cents per mile includes gas and insurance, etc, etc so not all of the govt per mile cost goes to depreciation and maintenance costs

I promise you this, that used vehicle you are buying is NOT properly adjusted for mileage

If the govt rate doesn't make it clear, look at edmunds total cost of ownership
5 years, 15,000 miles per year, here is what it costs the average person
2021 camry used as example

$22,865 is your out of pocket expense for 5 years 15,000 miles per year according to edmunds (not including fuel or insurance etc that are not per mile costs)
that breaks down to about 30 cents per mile, lets go even cheaper, lets knock that down to 20 cents per mile and say we do our own maintenance and saved some money

Now go find that used car you think is a deal. It has 30,000 miles on it, I might add the best smoothest quietest most trouble free miles, the 'premium miles' but I will not add a premium value even though to be fair I should.

Ain't that the truth. Nephew was looking for a Tacoma for his son. Called his used car guy he's bought 8-10 vehicles from. Guy says, "If you're set on a Taco, buy new. There's really no savings and you have three years of warranty."
 
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Ain't that the truth. Nephew was looking for a Tacoma for his son. Called his used car guy he's bought 8-10 vehicles from. Guy says, "If you're set on a Taco, buy new. There's really no savings and you have three years of warranty."
There you go... And one zap of static electricity through that PCM, ECM or TCM and you pay for the extended warranty to 100k - 200k miles.
There are reasons those Ford PSD's with 199k miles are stacking up on the used car lots.
 
Have 2 sisters still waiting on vehicles they ordered. I is waiting on a Ford transit 250 to replace her current transit 250 (nephew is a little person with a powered wheel chair). The other sister is waiting on a Toyota highlander i think. Possibly the hybrid. Don't remember how long they've been waiting though.

Sisters Toyota highlander finally came. 11 days short of a year. Other sister waiting on the transit will be at 16 months on the 17th.

Definite a hybrid. Those are the ones taking that long to take delivery of. Non hybrids can be had in ¼ to ½ the time. And frankly, IMO, hybrids are not worth the extra cost nor the wait. There's some caveats to that statement but once you calculate the extra cost vs. the gas savings, it's at best a wash. Resale, due to batteries, is lower vs. gas. And let's face it, they're not more environmentally friendly. I will admit there are some advantages to a hybrid over a gasser, like more power, less noise, and generally a better ride due to more weight. And I believe hybrids and full electrics will fall out of favor sooner than later due to lithium battery costs and shortages of lithium. Until we see a new/better battery tech, they're on their way out. JMO.
 
MSRP is the new "good deal". Manufacturers and dealers have realized an inventory shortage, real or manufactured, is both tolerated an more profitable.

Interest rates will have very little effect on car sales. It's just what it costs today. People still bought houses in the 80s paying 16% mortgage rates. It will change eventually, but not anytime soon. It's the new reality, just like 0% was back in the early 2000s. It's cyclical and will continue to cycle through time. If you're waiting, you're gonna wait a long time.
 
MSRP is the new "good deal". Manufacturers and dealers have realized an inventory shortage, real or manufactured, is both tolerated an more profitable.

Interest rates will have very little effect on car sales. It's just what it costs today. People still bought houses in the 80s paying 16% mortgage rates. It will change eventually, but not anytime soon. It's the new reality, just like 0% was back in the early 2000s. It's cyclical and will continue to cycle through time. If you're waiting, you're gonna wait a long time.

Dealers in my area are advertising, "No market value mark ups"...or something like that.
 
Used cars are not always a deal. You have to look at each individual case, simply stating 'buy used its better' is completely dated and out of touch with reality.

I have purchased both new and used

I purchased a car new in 2005, I am still driving it today and it is in amazing shape (inside and out)
In 2005 I paid about the same for the new car as a similar used one with 15,000 miles on it would have cost me

Lets just give the used car a fake advantage, let's say I could have gotten the used car $2000 less at purchase time
over 18 years that is about $112 per year I would have saved.
I have made no unexpected repairs on my 2005 car, only maintenance, and I have record of every oil change and every maintenance cycle done correctly and done with Toyota parts only (or synthetic oil).

Warranties have a cash value, that has to also be added (new or used)

Totally not worth saving the $2k or $112 per year to me. but that is made up savings, reality was there was no savings. In 2005 I bought the car 20% below MSRP posted on the sticker (yes that was totally possible in 2005)

The federal government will let you expense 65.5 cents per mile from your taxes if you travel in a personal vehicle that qualifies for a deduction (not worried about the taxes part of this, but value of 65 cents per mile is key)

I know that 65 cents per mile includes gas and insurance, etc, etc so not all of the govt per mile cost goes to depreciation and maintenance costs

I promise you this, that used vehicle you are buying is NOT properly adjusted for mileage

If the govt rate doesn't make it clear, look at edmunds total cost of ownership
5 years, 15,000 miles per year, here is what it costs the average person
2021 camry used as example

$22,865 is your out of pocket expense for 5 years 15,000 miles per year according to edmunds (not including fuel or insurance etc that are not per mile costs)
that breaks down to about 30 cents per mile, lets go even cheaper, lets knock that down to 20 cents per mile and say we do our own maintenance and saved some money

Now go find that used car you think is a deal. It has 30,000 miles on it, I might add the best smoothest quietest most trouble free miles, the 'premium miles' but I will not add a premium value even though to be fair I should.

30,000 * .20 = $6000

Are you really buying that used car for $6000 less than the new one?

30,000 * .30 = $9000

now you see what a bad deal a used car can be when adjusted for mileage?
Taking into account common numbers that the car industry or the federal govt agree is cost per mile (with some LOWERED estimation on my part)

If you think the math is flawed, then what does it cost to drive 1 mile?

Maintenance + repairs + taxes + fees + depreciation + financing as most people have to add it.

The reason used car prices are so high is people are fucking stupid.

Used cars are also harder to finance and usually have higher rates (yes I know many credit unions will do a good rate used, but my statement probably covers 80%)


Look at the specific deals you are able to find and crunch numbers, negotiate and don't be a bitch. I can't buy a reasonable used car cause too many dumb bitches are out there overpaying.
Great post. I will have to give this some thought
 
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All new vehicles become used cars and trucks once they’re sold.
It’s an obvious statement, but one that needs to be laid out to explain the root cause for ongoing inventory and pricing issues in the U.S. used vehicle market, which has been a barometer for the country’s inflation levels.
During the onset of the coronavirus pandemic in early 2020, automakers shuttered factories for weeks to stop the spread of Covid-19. It was an unprecedented action that eventually led to additional supply chain problems, such as an ongoing semiconductor chip shortage, causing factories to cease production again for weeks, if not months, at a time in recent years.

 
A word to the wise...
There is going to be a lot of water damaged vehicles showing up on the used car market.
They are coming from Florida as a result of the flooding.
Caveat emptor
 
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You’ve managed to buy the car, but can you afford to keep paying for it?
Along with soaring car prices, loan rates are the most expensive they’ve been in more than 15 years, with the average monthly payment on a new car at an all-time high, new data from auto website Edmunds shows.
The result of the one-two punch of higher prices and interest rates is that it’s taking Americans much longer to pay off their car loans — which include crossovers, SUVs and pickup trucks — and more buyers are being pushed out of the car market altogether.
“The reality is that you’re getting a narrower, narrower and narrower buying pool that actually can afford to buy new vehicles,” said Jonathan Smoke, the chief economist at Cox Automotive. The average annual percentage rate (APR) on financing a new car climbed from 4.5% in March 2022 to 7% a year later. Even after falling slightly from February, that’s the highest loan rate since 2008, according to Edmunds data

 
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The average age of a light-duty vehicle on U.S. roads rose by more than three months — the highest year-over-year increase since the Great Recession in 2008-2009 — to 12.5 years as of Jan. 1, according to a new report Monday from S&P Global Mobility. That includes a 3.8% increase for passenger cars to 13.6 years and a 1.7% uptick in trucks, SUVs and crossovers to 11.8 years.
 
Been holding off buying a new pickup truck since COVID. Happy with my 2015 Ram 1500 4x4 but mileage at 150000. New trend - Ram dealers have inventory and offering discounts below MSRP - like $5000 -$10000 below MSRP. Granted MSRP is $60 to $70000 but still this is a new trend. I suspect that they now have inventory building and higher car/truck loan rates make a fancy new truck into a mortgage payment!
 
Been holding off buying a new pickup truck since COVID. Happy with my 2015 Ram 1500 4x4 but mileage at 150000. New trend - Ram dealers have inventory and offering discounts below MSRP - like $5000 -$10000 below MSRP. Granted MSRP is $60 to $70000 but still this is a new trend. I suspect that they now have inventory building and higher car/truck loan rates make a fancy new truck into a mortgage payment!

Major lol at all those people with vehicle payments from $600-$1500 per month.
 
Not that great of a deal considering they just jacked the price of their F150s 6k across the board last month...
Every manufacturer has "jacked the price" in the last few months
Those who qualify for 0% are typically the ones smart enough to know if you have to take out a loan for a truck, you can’t afford it.
Correction 0% interest offer was for 36 months not 60.
The electrical contracting company across the street just picked up five brand new pick up trucks F-150s all.
new-2023-ford-f-150-xl-4x2-regular-cab-1ftmf1c50pkd85006

In Stock on The Lot SD pick-ups are selling for $5,000 to $6000 over MSRP and the dealers can't keep them on the lot.
 
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Those who qualify for 0% are typically the ones smart enough to know if you have to take out a loan for a truck, you can’t afford it.
Unfortunately for me I don't make the kind of money my credit suggest. I need to get two vehicles now, but I am holding off. Saving for the kids college and making auto payments isn't going to work for me right now. However, when the wife's car finally dies I will have to get a loan for a car. I'll probably goto my bank and try to get a personal loan with a lower interest rate.
 
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Unfortunately for me I don't make the kind of money my credit suggest. I need to get two vehicles now, but I am holding off. Saving for the kids college and making auto payments isn't going to work for me right now. However, when the wife's car finally dies I will have to get a loan for a car. I'll probably goto my bank and try to get a personal loan with a lower interest rate.
Ram dealerships (2 so far) offering $2000 rebate if you finance through dealership (and therefore through Ram-Chrysler whatever). Minimum is $7500 financed and must keep loan for 90 days to get the $2000 rebate. Can refi through your credit union or just pay off after 90 days to get the $2000 rebate.
 
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Ram dealerships (2 so far) offering $2000 rebate if you finance through dealership (and therefore through Ram-Chrysler whatever). Minimum is $7500 financed and must keep loan for 90 days to get the $2000 rebate. Can refi through your credit union or just pay off after 90 days to get the $2000 rebate.
Unfortunately, that doesn't really help me. Trucks are too large for my wife, who drives like shit and treats vehicles even worse, and for my daughter who will be learning to drive. They will be getting used vehicles when the prices come back down.
 
Have 2 sisters still waiting on vehicles they ordered. I is waiting on a Ford transit 250 to replace her current transit 250 (nephew is a little person with a powered wheel chair).....
Sister just got news of her transit vans build date and Vin number. Going into production week of 9/11. She ordered it November of 2021. They did upgrade her to the newer year model.
 
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The average consumer is not going to beat the used car sales people.
A person needing a used car is better off to buy one that is broke down, the owner has dumped a ton on money into it (new tires, new battery, new motor or new transmission, etc) and is just frustrated and is saying "Come and get it. It's blocking my driveway". Most of the time it is just something minor and he has thrown in the towel...

JMHO

 
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The average consumer is not going to beat the used car sales people.
A person needing a used car is better off to buy one that is broke down, the owner has dumped a ton on money into it (new tires, new battery, new motor or new transmission, etc) and is just frustrated and is saying "Come and get it. It's blocking my driveway". Most of the time it is just something minor and he has thrown in the towel...

JMHO
I've snagged a couple cheapos from the repo auction and done this as well. $900 for a common car with a common drivetrain, 2013 Dodge Journey needed a motor and front fascia/fenders/hood plus bits and pieces. Put in a motor myself in a day for ~$600 all in. Sent it to the local body shop and got the front end fixed for $3400. Drove it a couple months and sold for $9000.
 
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The average consumer is not going to beat the used car sales people.
A person needing a used car is better off to buy one that is broke down, the owner has dumped a ton on money into it (new tires, new battery, new motor or new transmission, etc) and is just frustrated and is saying "Come and get it. It's blocking my driveway". Most of the time it is just something minor and he has thrown in the towel...

JMHO

I know quite a few people lately opting for brand new engines in older trucks vs buying a new truck.

You can pretty much do a full restoration on a 2014 truck for about $30,000-$70,000 cheaper than buying a new truck.
 
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I know quite a few people lately opting for brand new engines in older trucks vs buying a new truck.

You can pretty much do a full restoration on a 2014 truck for about $30,000-$70,000 cheaper than buying a new truck.
During conversations like this I often think back to a quote from S3th
"People would rather open their wallet than their tool box".
There will come a time when an empty wallet will not get a person's car operating.
 
At this rate, I will never be able to own a new vehicle.
I intend to keep doing maintenance & repairs on my 2000 7.3 Powerstroke
until I can't turn a wrench any more, or the gummit bans it.
300k miles, simple as an anvil to work on.
Minimal emissions controls, no DEF, 6 sensors.
(Wife's Chevy Equinox Diesel recent DEF sensor replacement = $1k)
 
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At this rate, I will never be able to own a new vehicle.
I intend to keep doing maintenance & repairs on my 2000 7.3 Powerstroke
until I can't turn a wrench any more, or the gummit bans it.
300k miles, simple as an anvil to work on.
Minimal emissions controls, no DEF, 6 sensors.
(Wife's Chevy Equinox Diesel recent DEF sensor replacement = $1k)
You vill eat ze bugz!
 
At this rate, I will never be able to own a new vehicle.
I intend to keep doing maintenance & repairs on my 2000 7.3 Powerstroke
until I can't turn a wrench any more, or the gummit bans it.
300k miles, simple as an anvil to work on.
Minimal emissions controls, no DEF, 6 sensors.
(Wife's Chevy Equinox Diesel recent DEF sensor replacement = $1k)
The Government hates people like you (and me)....
Old truck, shop, tools, service manuals, mechanical aptitude.
LOL

.IMG_9181.JPG
 
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I know quite a few people lately opting for brand new engines in older trucks vs buying a new truck.

You can pretty much do a full restoration on a 2014 truck for about $30,000-$70,000 cheaper than buying a new truck.
I have heard from a few people how they drove the same 70 some chevy for years and years. Replaced body panels and repainted several times as well as several engines and transmissions. Makes me wonder if the cycle is about to repeat
 
MSRP is the new "good deal". Manufacturers and dealers have realized an inventory shortage, real or manufactured, is both tolerated an more profitable.

Interest rates will have very little effect on car sales. It's just what it costs today. People still bought houses in the 80s paying 16% mortgage rates. It will change eventually, but not anytime soon. It's the new reality, just like 0% was back in the early 2000s. It's cyclical and will continue to cycle through time. If you're waiting, you're gonna wait a long time.

When I went looking they offered a 6K over sticker package with the nitrogen tires etc. and still a 3-4 month wait.
 
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During conversations like this I often think back to a quote from S3th
"People would rather open their wallet than their tool box".
There will come a time when an empty wallet will not get a person's car operating.
"people" do know how to do any hands on skills anymore. They cannot change their own oil much less anything more complicated.
 
"people" do know how to do any hands on skills anymore. They cannot change their own oil much less anything more complicated.
My 15 year old son drug a 1984 Ford Ranger home with a blown head gasket the owner gave up on last spring. I Helped him order a gasket kit but told him he was on his own for the repair work. I’ve been turning wrenches all my life but last winter he helped me get a ‘69 Mustang Mach 1 project running which fueled this new project of his. In the end he did 95 percent of the work himself, used Google A LOT and learned a ton! Only thing I did was stab the distributor, set the timing and adjusted the carb. It ran great and he sold it a couple weeks later and made $1200
It took him awhile to complete the project, but I figured he made about $45 an hour.
Proud of him.