Anybody know the components/specs of the new Marine Corps .300 WinMag? I read it's going to have a Mk 13 mod 7 chassis but that's about it.
Stiller still has the contract for the Mk13 Mod 7 actions correct?I read Remington Long Action .300WM, Lilja barrel, on a Accuracy International chassis with Nightforce ATACR (zoom range wasn't specified).
Why are they so hell bent on a .30 cal?
US Military can not unfuck themselves when considering shit like this.
Why do Americans have such hard-ons for cartridges with a completely useless belt that does nothing but interfere with proper feeding and headspacing?
Why are they so hell bent on a .30 cal?
At least they went with Stiller, but they insist on the damn remington footprint and 90 degree bolt throw.
There's nothing wrong with a Remington footprint or a 90 degree action. It's been working great for over a century.
FIFY.
I meant have a century. 700's came about in the 60's.
So what happens when you burn out a barrel? Is it deadlined back to PWS or to Crane?
No modern issue precision rifle should require rebarreling above the user level.
personally, I think they should just go back to the 700/300. Better cheek weld, no fucking doo-dads to fall off and get lost. A little lighter and IMO easier to carry. I guess they like the DBM, so this is the next best thing if you don't want to just use an M5 LA floorplate.
They've gotta be able to run clip on NV's so by the time you embed a EFR in the chassis (which I'll never trust to be as aligned as a machined rail) and get the proper ring height for the day optic to line up right then you're at the same result. Nothing with a clip on is going to have an ultra tight cheek weld without the use of a adjustable cheek riser outside of an AR platform.
The McCann rail was the initial answer, but I agree with what yours saying. As I have both, I have a clear favorite BUT I don't run a clip on.
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The round should be a 300NM with a 215 Berger anyway.
I know what you meant, but 90-degree bolt throw bolt actions are a helluva sight older than the Remington. Remington did almost nothing to innovate the bolt action except make it easily and quickly produced, and cheaply, and they happened to be in the right place at the right time when Winchester--and the rest of the economy--went to shit.
Short of that event, we could all still be using CRF M70 actions. That wouldn't be all bad, either.
Amen to that, from what I understand the military in Vietnam thought their pre-war M70 to be better than the 700 however it was no longer being produced and the 700 was better than the post-64 M70.
I sometimes wonder how much different the shooting market would look if Winchester simply never changed the M70 and the military adopted it as the standard over the 700.
Several of the manufacturers you listed already load for that caliber. And USMC already uses significant quantities of specialty ammunition from manufacturers in NATO nations.
Also, mags for 700 pattern guns are crap.
Amen to that, from what I understand the military in Vietnam thought their pre-war M70 to be better than the 700 however it was no longer being produced and the 700 was better than the post-64 M70.
I sometimes wonder how much different the shooting market would look if Winchester simply never changed the M70 and the military adopted it as the standard over the 700.
Well remember they aren’t just getting guns they are also probably ordering extra parts per in order to service them. Also government procurement contracts always cost more because of how laws are written and rules etc etc etc. someone here who has been in that position before can explain better but it’s not that they are being ripped off it’s just that there is a lot of compliance bullshit that goes with it as well. Why do you think manufacturers of anything love govt contracts. They are very lucrative.I just read that the USMC was getting 346 of these bad boys at a cost of 4.3 million dollars. That works out to a smidge over 12k per. What in the name of all that's good could cause it to cost so much? I must be missing something in my math somewhere, but it surely escapes me right now.... Someone educate me, please. Honestly curious to know.
Not a single manufacturer that I mentioned lists any 300 Norma ammo.
Mags for 700 pattern guns are crap huh? Army, Navy, USMC, and SOCOM have been using AICS pattern mags for years in 700's with no issue. The long action mags which the MK13 Mod 7 uses are derived from the AWM and AWSM sniper rifles which have been in military service for over 20 years.
The commercial market is now standardizing on these magazines.... Yep, they're crap.
Are you trolling or are you really this misinformed?
The US Military does not own a stockpile of match bullets. (with the exception of the shooting teams that handload).You need some history books.
The US Military--'unfucked' or not--is under a fair amount of pressure from a lot of angles when they make decisions like these, and when they make a decision as much a watershed as this one, they have to be ready to stand by it. Budget being one of these considerations, in that the Marine Corps probably already owns millions and millions of .30 caliber match-grade projectiles of almost any variety you can buy (and some you can't), .30 caliber makes more sense in reality than it does on a forum with so many internet gurus like this one.
Paired that with so much development of .300 Mag loads and rifles by the Navy--under whose umbrella the Corps operates--and you can see where maybe .300 is a lot easier plug-and-play solution than something else.
The other side of the coin is horsepower. They are looking for a round that will go further, flatter, and faster BUT still deliver more pounds of energy on target than the .308 rifles they already have.
I know, I know, rhetorically, the 6.5mm and 6mm rounds are SOOPER cool, and SOOPER flat, and SOOPER long range, but if you compare energy on target--which is what can make all the difference when what you're shooting at can shoot back--the heavy .30s win big time.
Recoil is a non-issue for their rifles because of 3 factors: 1) they are suppressed; (2) they are heavy as fuck; (3) these are goddamned US Marines. (Which, yes, is a legitimate factor in their mindset regarding pain and ability on rifles, both.)
Something I have wondered before is whether, if suppressor technology had been available, WWII era-and-forward snipers would have been using .300 H&H instead of the Springfield round. It would have been worth 200+ fps more speed than the -06 with the same bullet, (100 fps being the general litmus for something that starts to "matter" for decision making) and was actually less than 100 fps behind the .300 Win Mag, but predated the Winchester by almost 40 years.
I think, if given the choice, the Marines would have chosen the heavier cartridge, same as their grandchildren have done now.
-Nate
US Military can not unfuck themselves when considering shit like this.
Why do Americans have such hard-ons for cartridges with a completely useless belt that does nothing but interfere with proper feeding and headspacing?
Why are they so hell bent on a .30 cal?
At least they went with Stiller, but they insist on the damn remington footprint and 90 degree bolt throw.
So, do you not think the AI or TRG actions are superior? (serious question)I'll tell you. By 2006-2012 fiscal standards the 338 Lapua in theatre cost the US taxpayer roughly $25 for every round expended. The logistical challenges of Finland to Middle East were not cheap. It became apparent that its not self sustaining. It's not the easiest round to shoot sustained for prolong periods either.
So, an alternative was pursued. The MK248 Mod 1 was the answer. Nothing more than a 300 Winchester Magnum gassed up with a 220 grain Sierra and throttled at 2850 +/-50fps.
The advantages of this:
- 3.5 more rounds per pound loaded on a person when compared to the 338LM
- Readily available in the current US supply chain because of Lake City Arsenal, they've been making 300WM since before most of us were born
- Almost ballistically identical to the 338LM when its loaded with a 250G Scenar projectile
- Standard magnum length magazines
- Standard magnum length actions
- Reduction in recoil to shooter, means more effective use when deployed
- Reduction in costs
Challenges early on:
Guns built for Naval Special Warfare had chamber issues. They'd pressure up and bolt lift got real heavy/sticky. Secret squirrel guys didn't want to use them because of it. That problem has been solved. 90* turnbolt actions have been in circulation since before WWI. The fact that they are still here today is a testimony to the design's success. The wheel is round enough...
Middelton Tompkins, someone I have known since I was 20 years old and respect tremendously proved that the most accurate projectile for 300m 3 position international was a 168 grain Sierra MK in a 308Win. The 30 works and works extremely well. Its also well supported. The most efficient bullet in the world is not much use if you can't get them. . .
Things to consider for folks who might dabble with this cartridge. The MK248 Mod1 is the envelope of the 300WM. As you push anything towards the limit of capacity, service intervals increase and service life diminish. This is intended as a "fire and forget" cartridge so if your looking for 5-10 reloads from brass its going to be a challenge to get that far.
Setup properly it feeds great, chambers just fine, and shoots very, very well. Remember, Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbeldon Cup in 1966 with a 300WM.
Old, not flashy, not "operator", but the cartridge still gets it done.
A classic never dies...
C.
PS. I was involved with this heavily about 6 years ago.
Who makes that tan stock?The McCann rail was the initial answer, but I agree with what yours saying. As I have both, I have a clear favorite BUT I don't run a clip on.
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Looks like a mcmillan (EDIT) A4.Who makes that tan stock?
Who makes that tan stock?
A2 Probably a NSW turn-in BTDT versionLooks like a mcmillan (EDIT) A4.
A2 Probably a NSW turn-in BTDT version
Looks slick, love the color. Great looking rifle. Those classic stock styles just scream "theres a badass behind this thing", instead of the newer and more common, "theres a video game, computer nerd, internet ballistician, wirelessly controlling this expensive, ridiculous, ( albeit accurate), comic book rendition of a rifle" and before I forget to mention....nice rifle.That is a McMillan A2 Inlet for the mk13 L shaped recoil lug. I ordered it to be exactly like they provided Crane in the 90s. I guess the Anschutz rail was added at Crane.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/ne.../marine-snipers-are-getting-new-mk-13-rifles/Interesting thread. I had no idea the Corps was going to 300WM. Sounds good to me.
So I take it the M40A6/7 is dead then? What do they do with all of those short actions? Reservist?
One can only hope CMP gets some.Latest Leatherneck says they will stay in school house for training.
Perhaps CMP will get some.
One can only hope CMP gets some.
Savagesconsidering what the 10x Unertls went for, more mortals will not be able to own one if this does happen. I'm glad that there will be people out there that can add them to collections, but it's sad to me that a shooters tool ends up racked with a toe tag, only to be seen by a few and never shot again. Seems like a waste, but better than being de-milled and thrown out.
a buddy of mine got an original mk13 lug. Anchor stamp and serial number on it PLUS 1" of the barrel and 2" of the action. Fuckers cut it off on each end with a touch. Just sad...
US Military can not unfuck themselves when considering shit like this.
Why do Americans have such hard-ons for cartridges with a completely useless belt that does nothing but interfere with proper feeding and headspacing?
Why are they so hell bent on a .30 cal?
At least they went with Stiller, but they insist on the damn remington footprint and 90 degree bolt throw.