Whats are the specs. for one of these. Cal.? What type ie., bullgun, standard sporter or target? Are they pre or post 64? What scopes, mounts etc? This regards the early Vietnam era rifles. Thanks in advance.
- Thread starter Quarter Horse
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Re: USMC Mod 70
I do like the above site and Mike is a great guy. I would also add that the rifles are in the 41,000-<50,000 range. Barrels were often originaly standard weight but most will have a 24" target barrel. Some marked WIN etc and many not marked at all. Checkered sporter stock. Not Van Orden type. Scope is USMC marked Unertl 8X. This scope is like no other Unertl by length and is clearly marked USMC-Sniper. Beware, there are many fakes out there, but none I have seen are the correct or have the correct mounts. Price is high for the correct one, but for a shooter, you could substitute any Lyman or Unertl etc. Good luck with your search.
I do like the above site and Mike is a great guy. I would also add that the rifles are in the 41,000-<50,000 range. Barrels were often originaly standard weight but most will have a 24" target barrel. Some marked WIN etc and many not marked at all. Checkered sporter stock. Not Van Orden type. Scope is USMC marked Unertl 8X. This scope is like no other Unertl by length and is clearly marked USMC-Sniper. Beware, there are many fakes out there, but none I have seen are the correct or have the correct mounts. Price is high for the correct one, but for a shooter, you could substitute any Lyman or Unertl etc. Good luck with your search.
Re: USMC Mod 70
Wickepedia indates that there were also 10X Unertls in use. Can any of you guys verify this?
Wickepedia indates that there were also 10X Unertls in use. Can any of you guys verify this?
Re: USMC Mod 70
I am sure many types of scopes were used. I have a 10X Unertl with USMC mounts, but it is not the same size or marked USMC. No history on it but the mounts are identical to the USMC 8X's I have. Scope is a few inches longer. I have heard rumors of a 10X USMC marked scope, but cannot varify, and with all the fakes out there, I would be very suspicious. If the numbers were in the same range I would think it might be possiable. No one has put one in a book or list one on the "official" list. Not that proves anything.
Buyer beware
I am sure many types of scopes were used. I have a 10X Unertl with USMC mounts, but it is not the same size or marked USMC. No history on it but the mounts are identical to the USMC 8X's I have. Scope is a few inches longer. I have heard rumors of a 10X USMC marked scope, but cannot varify, and with all the fakes out there, I would be very suspicious. If the numbers were in the same range I would think it might be possiable. No one has put one in a book or list one on the "official" list. Not that proves anything.
Buyer beware
Re: USMC Mod 70
Rth, where on the scope are the markings? On Mike's site he specifys 1 1/4". Is this the measurement of the ocular bell, the objective or what? I also noted that only one of the rifles pictured has the spring behind the front mount but several have the collar which would secure the spring. I am assuming that is the pupose of the collar. What is the proper length for the correct 8Xs?
Rth, where on the scope are the markings? On Mike's site he specifys 1 1/4". Is this the measurement of the ocular bell, the objective or what? I also noted that only one of the rifles pictured has the spring behind the front mount but several have the collar which would secure the spring. I am assuming that is the pupose of the collar. What is the proper length for the correct 8Xs?
Re: USMC Mod 70
If you really want to get down in the weeds as far as a "USMC .30 Government 06" Winchester rifle get Peter Senich's book U.S. Marine Corps Scout - Sniper from Paladin Press. It answers all of your questions and more and includes info on the rifles, serial numbers, optics, variations etc. FWIW the Unertl Combination Target Scope was available in 8, 10, 12, and 14 power and was the same dimensions as the USMC contract scope.
Oh the scope was 24" long
Cheers,
Doc
If you really want to get down in the weeds as far as a "USMC .30 Government 06" Winchester rifle get Peter Senich's book U.S. Marine Corps Scout - Sniper from Paladin Press. It answers all of your questions and more and includes info on the rifles, serial numbers, optics, variations etc. FWIW the Unertl Combination Target Scope was available in 8, 10, 12, and 14 power and was the same dimensions as the USMC contract scope.
Oh the scope was 24" long
Cheers,
Doc
Re: USMC Mod 70
As usual, this site is "the bomb". Thanks for the info guys and I will look into finding the book.
As usual, this site is "the bomb". Thanks for the info guys and I will look into finding the book.
Re: USMC Mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quarter Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rth, where on the scope are the markings? On Mike's site he specifys 1 1/4". Is this the measurement of the ocular bell, the objective or what? I also noted that only one of the rifles pictured has the spring behind the front mount but several have the collar which would secure the spring. I am assuming that is the pupose of the collar. What is the proper length for the correct 8Xs? </div></div>
The 1 1/4" is the diameter of the objective lens, the O.D. at the end of the sunshade is about 1.5". Here is a photo of my rifle with a 1 1/4" Combination Target Varmint 8x scope with blackened mounts.
The OAL of the scope is about 24" to 25" depending on where the parallax is set at the objective bell. The collar you see is actually the ring clamp used to set eye relief with these. If the recoil spring is not present it becomes necessary to manually pull the scope back into position after each shot due to the recoil, the scope will slide forward in the mounts. The ring clamp provides a stop for the rearward travel of the scope tube in the mounts.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quarter Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rth, where on the scope are the markings? On Mike's site he specifys 1 1/4". Is this the measurement of the ocular bell, the objective or what? I also noted that only one of the rifles pictured has the spring behind the front mount but several have the collar which would secure the spring. I am assuming that is the pupose of the collar. What is the proper length for the correct 8Xs? </div></div>
The 1 1/4" is the diameter of the objective lens, the O.D. at the end of the sunshade is about 1.5". Here is a photo of my rifle with a 1 1/4" Combination Target Varmint 8x scope with blackened mounts.
The OAL of the scope is about 24" to 25" depending on where the parallax is set at the objective bell. The collar you see is actually the ring clamp used to set eye relief with these. If the recoil spring is not present it becomes necessary to manually pull the scope back into position after each shot due to the recoil, the scope will slide forward in the mounts. The ring clamp provides a stop for the rearward travel of the scope tube in the mounts.
Re: USMC Mod 70
Most of the Model 70s use in Vietnam were the 1000 yard match guns from the respective services rifle teams.
Peter R. Senich's "Limited War Sniping" has a fairly good discription of them and their use.
The one we had was a Medium Weight Barreled with a 3X9 Redfield on it, in '06. It worked and held up quite well. It didn't have the blocks for iron sights like most of the target rifles did, something I would change if it was mine.
I built a M-70 Vietnam Era Clone with the Med Heavy weight military barrel I got from someone on the Hide (forgot who). Sucker is a shooter and it turned out to be my go-to 1000 yard gun. Seems to shoot the Military 174s as well as it does the 175 SMKs.
Most of the Model 70s use in Vietnam were the 1000 yard match guns from the respective services rifle teams.
Peter R. Senich's "Limited War Sniping" has a fairly good discription of them and their use.
The one we had was a Medium Weight Barreled with a 3X9 Redfield on it, in '06. It worked and held up quite well. It didn't have the blocks for iron sights like most of the target rifles did, something I would change if it was mine.
I built a M-70 Vietnam Era Clone with the Med Heavy weight military barrel I got from someone on the Hide (forgot who). Sucker is a shooter and it turned out to be my go-to 1000 yard gun. Seems to shoot the Military 174s as well as it does the 175 SMKs.
Re: USMC Mod 70
USMC marks are on the left side of the scope about 6" from the ocular lens cover. The other previous posters are correct about the 1 1/4 objective. I will check on the lenght. I have many Unertls and I think the USMC marked ones are a bit different.
USMC marks are on the left side of the scope about 6" from the ocular lens cover. The other previous posters are correct about the 1 1/4 objective. I will check on the lenght. I have many Unertls and I think the USMC marked ones are a bit different.
Re: USMC Mod 70
Pg 160 Complete Book of US SNiping indicates that the Unertl 10x was in fact used, IN KOREA.
to quote:
"As a result of 1000 yard shooting, during which sevral "Chi-Com" casualties were registered, the .30-06 Winchester Model 70 Bull Gun (28-inch barrel, .842-inch Diameter muzzle), mounting a Unertl 10 power, two-inch objective telescope, was considered nothing short of phenomenal.
So is it likely a few of these went to Vietnam? Possible.
Also noted that both the target stock and the standard hunting stock were used in Vietnam, one photo shows both in use at a range.
Interesting to note, pg 168 on "The complete book of US Sniping" there WERE in fact several 3x9 variable power "Marine Scopes" mfg'd in Japan used on the Model 70, and one photograph to verify.
Pg 160 Complete Book of US SNiping indicates that the Unertl 10x was in fact used, IN KOREA.
to quote:
"As a result of 1000 yard shooting, during which sevral "Chi-Com" casualties were registered, the .30-06 Winchester Model 70 Bull Gun (28-inch barrel, .842-inch Diameter muzzle), mounting a Unertl 10 power, two-inch objective telescope, was considered nothing short of phenomenal.
So is it likely a few of these went to Vietnam? Possible.
Also noted that both the target stock and the standard hunting stock were used in Vietnam, one photo shows both in use at a range.
Interesting to note, pg 168 on "The complete book of US Sniping" there WERE in fact several 3x9 variable power "Marine Scopes" mfg'd in Japan used on the Model 70, and one photograph to verify.
Re: USMC Mod 70
Arctic,
I remember this as well. Also many Lymans were used. I think the question is were there any USMC 10X Unertls that were marked as the 8X's were. I know a few who claim to have seen them, but no proof yet as far as I know.
I sure have not seen one. I have one that is identical, with USMC mounts but not #ed or marked by Unertl as the 8x's are.
I also have a Leupold that is FACTORY marked USMC it is a 10X AO. I understand that there were 50 of them made for the trials and they were later sent to RVN. This is the only one I have ever heard of surviving. It is on a US marked 40X repeater, .308 Win. Redfield mount. 1965 or'66 vintage. So anything can happen and much did.
Arctic,
I remember this as well. Also many Lymans were used. I think the question is were there any USMC 10X Unertls that were marked as the 8X's were. I know a few who claim to have seen them, but no proof yet as far as I know.
I sure have not seen one. I have one that is identical, with USMC mounts but not #ed or marked by Unertl as the 8x's are.
I also have a Leupold that is FACTORY marked USMC it is a 10X AO. I understand that there were 50 of them made for the trials and they were later sent to RVN. This is the only one I have ever heard of surviving. It is on a US marked 40X repeater, .308 Win. Redfield mount. 1965 or'66 vintage. So anything can happen and much did.
Re: USMC Mod 70
Most if not all were Pre 64 action and they had a 24 inch target barrel 1:10 twist. They used Unertl 8X and 10X scopes on them and they are 30-06 173grs bullets but you can't get the 173 but you can get the 175
Most if not all were Pre 64 action and they had a 24 inch target barrel 1:10 twist. They used Unertl 8X and 10X scopes on them and they are 30-06 173grs bullets but you can't get the 173 but you can get the 175
Re: USMC Mod 70
Here is my M70 Sniper it has a 24inch Douglas AirGauge Barrel 1:10 twist with a stright tapper .875 of an inch at the muzzle, 1953 M70 Action tune and stock is Orginal just opened up the barrel channel to take the Bull barrel glass beding was with Devon Con Steel Puddy and still has the steel butt plate. Trigger is factory just set at 3lbs. Scope is a 10X Unertl. My load is Sierra MatchKing 168grs, Lapua Brass, Norma MRP 55.4 grs. If Im shoting good that day it will put them in the same hole. It's heavey but nice it kick like a 223
Here is my M70 Sniper it has a 24inch Douglas AirGauge Barrel 1:10 twist with a stright tapper .875 of an inch at the muzzle, 1953 M70 Action tune and stock is Orginal just opened up the barrel channel to take the Bull barrel glass beding was with Devon Con Steel Puddy and still has the steel butt plate. Trigger is factory just set at 3lbs. Scope is a 10X Unertl. My load is Sierra MatchKing 168grs, Lapua Brass, Norma MRP 55.4 grs. If Im shoting good that day it will put them in the same hole. It's heavey but nice it kick like a 223
Re: USMC Mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hiddenBuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most if not all were Pre 64 action and they had a 24 inch target barrel 1:10 twist. They used Unertl 8X and 10X scopes on them and they are 30-06 173grs bullets but you can't get the 173 but you can get the 175 </div></div>
Yep - think I mentioned that - I've got the authoritative book on this rifle..
I have about 10 boxes of 173 gr
I will sell if someone is interested.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hiddenBuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most if not all were Pre 64 action and they had a 24 inch target barrel 1:10 twist. They used Unertl 8X and 10X scopes on them and they are 30-06 173grs bullets but you can't get the 173 but you can get the 175 </div></div>
Yep - think I mentioned that - I've got the authoritative book on this rifle..
I have about 10 boxes of 173 gr
I will sell if someone is interested.
Re: USMC Mod 70
Also - Carlos Hathcock mentions having to reset the scope after every shot - is that this rifle? Does it have to be pushed back forward or something?
Also - Carlos Hathcock mentions having to reset the scope after every shot - is that this rifle? Does it have to be pushed back forward or something?
Re: USMC Mod 70
Look at Wilshire1412's explanation above (response with the pics of the beautiful rifle)
Look at Wilshire1412's explanation above (response with the pics of the beautiful rifle)
Re: USMC Mod 70
Carlos had to push the scope back because he took off the return spring. My Unertl on my M70 has the spring where my 1903 sniper does not and I have to put it back into place to shoot
Carlos had to push the scope back because he took off the return spring. My Unertl on my M70 has the spring where my 1903 sniper does not and I have to put it back into place to shoot
Re: USMC Mod 70
I have never seen a true USMC sniper scope that had the spring in place. All show evidence of the spring and have the recoil block, but none have the spring. I am guessing that they were removed prior to issue. If you see one with the spring, I would further guess that it was replaced.
JMO
RTH
I have never seen a true USMC sniper scope that had the spring in place. All show evidence of the spring and have the recoil block, but none have the spring. I am guessing that they were removed prior to issue. If you see one with the spring, I would further guess that it was replaced.
JMO
RTH
Re: USMC Mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never seen a true USMC sniper scope that had the spring in place. All show evidence of the spring and have the recoil block, but none have the spring. I am guessing that they were removed prior to issue. If you see one with the spring, I would further guess that it was replaced.
JMO
RTH </div></div>
During WWII the scope springs were spec'd out of USMC supply channels. It was thought that the corrosive environment of the Pacific would be too much for supply to keep up with demand. So, they were simply left out of the equation.
I remember reading about this decision many, many years ago and thought it was widely known.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never seen a true USMC sniper scope that had the spring in place. All show evidence of the spring and have the recoil block, but none have the spring. I am guessing that they were removed prior to issue. If you see one with the spring, I would further guess that it was replaced.
JMO
RTH </div></div>
During WWII the scope springs were spec'd out of USMC supply channels. It was thought that the corrosive environment of the Pacific would be too much for supply to keep up with demand. So, they were simply left out of the equation.
I remember reading about this decision many, many years ago and thought it was widely known.
Re: USMC Mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USMC marks are on the left side of the scope about 6" from the ocular lens cover. The other previous posters are correct about the 1 1/4 objective. I will check on the lenght. I have many Unertls and I think the USMC marked ones are a bit different. </div></div>
On the left or underneath? I've not seen any pictures where they are visible.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USMC marks are on the left side of the scope about 6" from the ocular lens cover. The other previous posters are correct about the 1 1/4 objective. I will check on the lenght. I have many Unertls and I think the USMC marked ones are a bit different. </div></div>
On the left or underneath? I've not seen any pictures where they are visible.
Re: USMC Mod 70
Left center at 9:00
USMC-Sniper
Unertl
The scope also has a unique mount that is different shaped and anodized black.
You should consider a book called USMC Snipers in Viet Nam. Many photos of scopes an much info.
Left center at 9:00
USMC-Sniper
Unertl
The scope also has a unique mount that is different shaped and anodized black.
You should consider a book called USMC Snipers in Viet Nam. Many photos of scopes an much info.
Re: USMC Mod 70
rth1800 - thanks. Would really like to see pics of the 9 o clock markings.
The one I have starts at 12 (top and centre) with the J. Unertl engraving and then the USMC-Sniper and Serial number are at approx 11 and 10 o Clock respectively, pretty much as p130 in "One Round War".
Would hate to think I have a fake!
rth1800 - thanks. Would really like to see pics of the 9 o clock markings.
The one I have starts at 12 (top and centre) with the J. Unertl engraving and then the USMC-Sniper and Serial number are at approx 11 and 10 o Clock respectively, pretty much as p130 in "One Round War".
Would hate to think I have a fake!
Re: USMC Mod 70
Guys,
While we are on this subject, does anyone know who can repair these scopes? I have a Lyman target spot that the objective threads seemed to have locked up, not sure if they crossed or if there is something binding them up. I'd like to get this rifle back into service and obviously don't trust just any smith to do the work.....
Thanks
Chris
Guys,
While we are on this subject, does anyone know who can repair these scopes? I have a Lyman target spot that the objective threads seemed to have locked up, not sure if they crossed or if there is something binding them up. I'd like to get this rifle back into service and obviously don't trust just any smith to do the work.....
Thanks
Chris
Re: USMC Mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunman_7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,
While we are on this subject, does anyone know who can repair these scopes? I have a Lyman target spot that the objective threads seemed to have locked up, not sure if they crossed or if there is something binding them up. I'd like to get this rifle back into service and obviously don't trust just any smith to do the work.....
Thanks
Chris </div></div>
Parson`s
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunman_7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,
While we are on this subject, does anyone know who can repair these scopes? I have a Lyman target spot that the objective threads seemed to have locked up, not sure if they crossed or if there is something binding them up. I'd like to get this rifle back into service and obviously don't trust just any smith to do the work.....
Thanks
Chris </div></div>
Parson`s
Re: USMC Mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunman_7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,
While we are on this subject, does anyone know who can repair these scopes? I have a Lyman target spot that the objective threads seemed to have locked up, not sure if they crossed or if there is something binding them up. I'd like to get this rifle back into service and obviously don't trust just any smith to do the work.....
Thanks
Chris </div></div>
Parson`s </div></div>That's what I'm looking for, thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunman_7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,
While we are on this subject, does anyone know who can repair these scopes? I have a Lyman target spot that the objective threads seemed to have locked up, not sure if they crossed or if there is something binding them up. I'd like to get this rifle back into service and obviously don't trust just any smith to do the work.....
Thanks
Chris </div></div>
Parson`s </div></div>That's what I'm looking for, thanks!
Re: USMC Mod 70
Mr. Parsons died recently. I think his son is going to try to keep it going, but the deal has some issues as I understand it.
He had an assistant that is doing some work exclusively on Unertl's. Let me know if you need contact info as I will have it soon.
Mr. Parsons died recently. I think his son is going to try to keep it going, but the deal has some issues as I understand it.
He had an assistant that is doing some work exclusively on Unertl's. Let me know if you need contact info as I will have it soon.
Re: USMC Mod 70
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