Rifle Scopes USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

[BasraBoy]

Looking for a new scope for a .223 AR.

Narrowed the choice down to:

Nightforce 2.5-10x24 Compact with NP-R2 reticle / .25 MOA clicks

or

USO SN3-S with Std MOA or JNG MOA reticle / .25 MOA clicks

Rifle is strictly for paper punching out to 600yds.

MOA reticle to keep the maths simple!

Would be interested to hear your experiences with either...fors?...againsts?

 

[pc3]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

I use a 2.5-10x24 compact with NPR-2 on my AIA M10 B1 .308 ( have shot a few pigs and other vermin with it now along with a little ringing steel at 500 odd yards and it works well) and it is really a sweet scope. I imagine the US Optics to be more of a good thing but the NXS will not let you down and will be cheaper I think.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks pc3.

The size and weight on the Nightforce are definitely in it's favour - the USO is a couple of inches longer and just under 1/2lb heavier

How do you find your Nightforce for clarity?

 

[Ratbert]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Biggest reason I'd suggest the USO is if you want parallax adjustment. If you're not going to pay for the upgrade then the NSX is a better deal, IMHO.

If you're just punching paper on a square range then issues regarding the math really isn't going to enter into it very much.

Make sure you pay for the Zero-stop version on the NSX. Worth every penny.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Also, keep in mind that the USO will typically use Inch-per-hundred-yards (shooter's MOA) and the NSX (IIRC) uses true MOA. So the 'math' will be different depending on which you choose. Confusion about which scope's turrets and reticle are which kind of 'MOA' are one of the reasons I decided to get everything Mil/Mil. Every Mil/Mil scope I have is the same.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks rathbert...good point.

That'd suit me better as I tend to use shooters MOA too - was never that hot on my 1.0471976 times table!

 

[macman2564]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

USO but not in an MOA config. I'd definitely run it mil/mil to avoid confusion.

 

[steve123]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

I chose the NF for the low weight,low profile knobs,compact design,illumination.

Steve

 

[Falar]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

With the USO you get FFP and a larger objective and also parallax adjustment if you want to pay for the upgrade. These come with additional weight, so if that is more of a factor to you then you may want to go with the NXS.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

The length and weight of the NXS make it closer to the overall idea behind this rifle - 18" barrel, folding stock - light and handy.

Are NXS reticles SFP?

That would be a bummer - I'm used to FFP on my variable scopes.

I can't see any info on their website on this.

 

[Graham]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

The NXS is SFP. USO will have the edge on glass quality. But if you are going to be cranking hard on the knobs the NF has the edge on durability. USO has excellent customer service, but it might be a pain for you to get the benefit of that service from the UK. Consider which one you think will be easier for you to re-sell if you don't like it and/or change your mind after you get it.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Yes, they're SFP (except the F1 models).

However on a 2.5-10 that really doesn't matter much, anything far enough away that you're going to be trying to range it or do hold overs is probably going to be viewed @ 10x anyway.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Yes they are SFP but from your use listed the FFP wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. Actually I just ordered a 1-4x for my 18" AR.

Also if you wanted a larger objective then NF now offer a 2.5-10x32.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO will have the edge on glass quality.</div></div>

Graham, I haven't found that in the larger scopes I have owned from both companies.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks graham - yep, Nightforce are easier to get in the UK - plenty of dealers (can't think I've ever seen a USO dealer here?).

I've got an old Zeiss Zielvier I bought refurbished from a company in the US...had to send it back for some work...was gone over a year! OK, it was a 70 year old scope so was a bit unusual but wouldn't want to run the risk of ITAR or Customs issues if I needed to use a warranty.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Rob01 - sure, most of the time I'd be at max mag so FFP wouldn't be a deal breaker other than all my other variable scopes are SFP so it's what I'm used to.

I did think about fixed mag (SN4 and ST6) but really want 1/4 MOA clicks and the SN3 seemed to be the only choice that offered this. Then, when I took into account the SN3 mag (to x10), up popped the Nightforce.

 

[steve123]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Are NXS reticles SFP?

That would be a bummer - I'm used to FFP on my variable scopes.

Rob01 - sure, most of the time I'd be at max mag so FFP wouldn't be a deal breaker other than all my other variable scopes are SFP so it's what I'm used to.

Well which is it? SFP pr FFP that you are used to.

Steve

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

NXS's are SFP. FFP are something that i would never buy...

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Well spotted Steve....FFP.

The perils of typing and talking on the phone at the same time!

Thanks for picking up on that typo!

 

[Graham]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham, I haven't found that in the larger scopes I have owned from both companies.</div></div>Interesting that you say that, 'cause I have never owned a x56 NF but have had most of the others. My old USO, head and shoulders better than my new one, was clearly superior to all of them (pun intended). My new USO, 3.2-17x44, is still better than my NF 3.5-15x50 or 5.5-22x50, although that's not a deal-breaker because I use the elevation knob.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

I've never had an SFP variable scope so my choice would be based on familiarity and wishing to standardise one way or the other across my scopes.

Schmidt and Bender offers the following as an assessment of the pros/cons of both:

"We now offer two systems of reticle placement, each equally precise. The decision upon which system is "best" depends upon the scope and its intended application.

The two possible locations for placement of the reticle are within the objective image plane or the eyepiece image plane.

A typically European design positions the reticle at the first (objective) image plane. In this configuration, the reticle and the image of the target are enlarged or reduced simultaneously as the magnification is changed. The relationship between target and reticle remain unchanged, regardless of the chosen magnification. The advantage to this design is that point of impact will not change at different magnification levels, as can happen with a lower-quality scope.

Positioning the reticle in the second (eyepiece) image plane is referred to as the "American" design. The reticle is independent from the magnification system, which means as magnification of the target is enlarged or reduced, the apparent size of the reticle remains the same. To use this system in a riflescope while preventing any possible shift of point of impact is extremely demanding, requiring the utmost precision of mechanical components.

These two design principles offer different advantages to the hunter. The European design allows the reticle to be used for estimating distance, because it always covers the same proportion of the target, regardless of magnification. Consistent point of impact across the entire magnification range is virtually 100%.

The American design allows the hunter to shoot very well at small targets at long distances, because the reticle obscures only a tiny portion of the image at high magnifications. Riflescopes with low magnification, such as those used for rapid shooting at short ranges, are also well suited to this application. This is because the reticle retains the desired amount of coverage when the smallest magnification is selected, in order to obtain the largest possible field of view."

 

[Graham]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

SFP is perfect for range work, because when shooting paper at known distances you just dial everything.

You won't need FFP unless you are shooting a stage with multiple targets at multiple distances, using hold-overs and hold-unders, where you will also have to dial magnification as well.

SFP is even fine to 600 on multiple targets at different distances because the drop isn't so much that you would be dialing like a fiend.

Out to 600 I tend to stay at 10x and just use hold-overs at that power, even on the smaller movers.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Hear what you are saying Graham.This pretty much brings me back to asking if I need a variable mag on this rifle.

I got to the "short list" mentioned in the original post as I wanted something more than a x4 or x6 for longer distances and with easier to dial/zero turrets than the Triji x4 I've been using.

If I could find a compact (say less than 10" overall length) fixed x10 mag with 1/4" MOA adjustments it'd be a serious contender.

 

[Graham]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I could find a compact (say less than 10" overall length) fixed x10 mag with 1/4" MOA adjustments it'd be a serious contender.</div></div>10X SWFA Super Sniper, Mil Dot, MOA knobs, rear focus: $325 US. Best of both worlds on the range: Hold over in Mils that you know, dial in MOA like you want to.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks graham....I'll check them out

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Going from your original choices to that is quite a step down and not just in price. Also it's about 14" long.

 

[Graham]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Or, the SB PM II 30mm fixed 10x with P3 reticle and Mil Knobs is a very versitile scope, and about 13" long.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Graham, yes it is a step down and it is also pretty long.

I love S&B scopes and have one on my AW (3-12x50 PMII), I also had a fixed 6x42 on an old Mauser rifle I used to have. Great quality but the x10 scopes are pretty long (14"?) and heavy and that is moving away from my original idea on this rifle.

I guess I'm still with the original two short-listed - both have plus points.

The USO looks like a great scope and I really like the custom options (subjectively it would be my first choice) but, having slept on it, the sensible choice in the UK (just because of availability and after-sales) would be the Nightforce - probably with the Zero Stop.

 

[whin4]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

I have just had an export permit denied for almost the exact same USO model your looking at. So id say go with the NF.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Good choice Basra. You won't be disappointed in the NF.

 

[OFIS]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I could find a compact (say less than 10" overall length) fixed x10 mag with 1/4" MOA adjustments it'd be a serious contender. </div></div>

sounds like an MST100...

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks for the suggestion 051F but the MST100 is 12" long, weighs in at 2 1/4lb and has 0.5MOA clicks.

Also I believe the order book is closed out on these now?

I've got one coming on my new GAP but the lead time has been very long. George ordered the scope back in early April and it is still not delivered.

Also given whin4's experience and other comments here I'm still worried about my export permit being denied on the grounds of a Mildot reticle.

On this AR, I'll stick with the Nightforce.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whin4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have just had an export permit denied for almost the exact same USO model your looking at. So id say go with the NF.</div></div>

Really? Did they give a reason for it being denied?

I've got an application in on an MST100 at the moment.....

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks Rob01...as said...given my location and the idea for this rifle the Nightforce seems like the sensible choice.

But I'm sure the USO is a great scope too

 

[whin4]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

No, apparently they gave no reason. They also denied the permit for a standard model Leica CRF 1200 range finder

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks whin4.

PM inbound - hope it helps.

 

[DaddyPig]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Just to throw an alternative into the mix......considering you already know the quality of their scopes.....

S&B Shortdot.

Great scope, especially on the AR platform.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks DaddyPig - sure I considered the Short Dot.

But I want something that has a higher mag than x4 (I've already got that with a ballistic reticle) on my Triji

 

[DaddyPig]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

This was the problem I had a while back....

I was going for a NF 2.5-10 with the FC2 reticle but got the "Oh there won't be any of those in stock, and we can't order you one as the importer's next order has gone in and that won't be delivered 'till next year so it could be a 12 month wait".........the big players in the U.K. gun trade are crap at customer service...

I ended up with an IOR 3-18 x 42. Lovely bit of glass, I would say easily 90% as good as the Schmidts I have. They do a nice little 2-12 x 32, only problem is it doesn't have target turrets.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

First scope I put on my existing Flat Top was the IOR 3 x25 (I bought it in the US)

I'd agree that the glass was good but it had a typical "vintage" Zeiss type arrangement for resetting the elevation ring once zeroed: two screws that had to be unscrewed to move the turret back to the zero mark.

Trouble was the difference between unscrewing far enough to "disconnect" from the reticle and unscrewing too far was minimal.

I managed to lose the threads on both and there was no way to get them to reseat.

I sent it back to the guy I'd bought it from in the US and, after six months of no luck with getting the IOR service guys to fix it, he gave me a refund and I bought the Triji.

If I run into the same problem that you have with our UK Distributor or dealers I'd be mighty tempted to buy the scope direct from the US provided there are no ITAR or Export restrictions.

 

[DaddyPig]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

The new IOR 'Tactical' knobs are a world apart from the old ones, good size & good solid clicks. Indeed the whole company, quality, customer service etc. seem to be a world away from what it used to be like.

As for getting the NF direct from the U.S. it is apparently a restricted item but......

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks mate - it's been four years since I last looked at IOR...I'm open to looking at them again.

Of course anything I do'll be above board...wouldn't want to break the rules and get thrown in the pokey!

 

[OFIS]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

yeah i wasnt saying the MST100 would be PERFECT, but seeing them in person i was amazed at how small they were. granted theyre steel and .5moa adjusted, but if i were to dream of one made in aluminum with mil adjustments... i would forsee the sales to be relative to that of hotcakes.

but i guess thats what the ST10 is for...

 

[RTH1800]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

OP,
I am sure these are both nice scopes. I have a great deal of expirence with the NF 2.5-10. I think they are great and that is what I would choose. I own 4 or 5 of them.
I do have one word of warning. The adjustments are very repeatable but the windage is more like .5 moa rather that .25. I have checked this on each of them out to 1000 yds and it is clear that they are not .25 MOA. Elevation is actually .25 moa. Not sure why. I find it works OK like this.
You are not supposed to leave the turrent caps off in the field, but I have with no problems. I like the low turrents, glass quality, compactness, and illumination set up. Nice scope. Some people doubt the proformance ability of a scope this small, but I have shot a few .25 moa groups to 1000 yd. (6.5x284) Good luck

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

051F - yep, the MST100 is a fine scope....chewing my hands off waiting to get mine!! It'll be a real nightmare if I get knocked back on the export permission!

th1800, thanks for the experience and input.

Are the clicks consistently out on the windage across the full travel left and right?

Was it always like this on your scope?

Did you check this with NF Service/CS?

 

[RTH1800]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

I have not checked them all the way out to the ends as I had no need to and would have been off the target. They are consistant in the area I have adjusted them. Also all of them are the same. When I really press the other guys I know who use NF about it, I finnaly get a " I just have not used mine that much", type response. I do think most people do not shoot LR all that much.
Always like this.
I did not have a problem with it so did not check.
Hope you get one of them and like it as much as I do.

 

[Falar]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">051F - yep, the MST100 is a fine scope....chewing my hands off waiting to get mine!! It'll be a real nightmare if I get knocked back on the export permission!

th1800, thanks for the experience and input.

Are the clicks consistently out on the windage across the full travel left and right?

Was it always like this on your scope?

Did you check this with NF Service/CS? </div></div>

I feel sorry for you guys living in NATO countries that still have a hard time getting optics imported. IMO shipping items like this to the UK, Australia, Germany, etc shouldn't be restricted.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Thanks rth1800

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

Falar - I know what you are saying.

I've had to go through end user statements etc. for rear and front flip-ups, handguards, etc.

None of these items are, in themselves, a major threat.

I'm not qualified to speak about other NATO countries but I can prove UK authority to buy (all UK Firearms Certificates are issued by local UK police forces after checks on the applicant (including propsed usage, membership of a Home Office approved shootong club, personal references and a Doctor's statement on medical history).

But I suppose these things can be faked and kit could end up in the wrong place with the wrong guys.

Although the paperwork is a little frustrating and delays the process, I guess it is understandable.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO SN3-S or Nightforce 2.5-10x24

rth1800, run a box test on the scope at 100 yards. Go 10 MOA in all directions and see if the windage is off that much. it would be easy to see. I say do it at 100 yards as any farther out and the environmentals will start to come into play and it will mess with the results.

If it is off that much then contact Nightforce and they will get it right for you.