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Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

This one is a riot! And fits the thread nicely. I don't completely agree with this video, but it is funny.

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Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

all i did was post a comment trying to point out that there is a disconnect between citizens and the law. I point no fingers. But some LE guys on here instantly get defensive and some citizens instantly start attacking the LE guys again. See what i mean about the disconnect? I take no sides, just the stance that there is a feeling of isolation for most citizens. I cannot speak of the feelings of the LE community, but i imagine the feeling of isolation and vulnerability is there as well. Both are not good. That is all i am saying.
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I was agreeing with you, and I as well have no good solution. I'd say just talk to cops like they are normal people, but how many normal people just walk up and start talking to you? People get nervous when strangers walk up to them.
Oh well, maybe someone smarter than I can suggest something.
Patrick
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gjantzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all i did was post a comment trying to point out that there is a disconnect between citizens and the law. I point no fingers. But some LE guys on here instantly get defensive and some citizens instantly start attacking the LE guys again. See what i mean about the disconnect? I take no sides, just the stance that there is a feeling of isolation for most citizens. I cannot speak of the feelings of the LE community, but i imagine the feeling of isolation and vulnerability is there as well. Both are not good. That is all i am saying. </div></div>

OK, let's be real here. Your "taking no sides" original post was heavy with the age old "Cops aren't held to the same standard", "Cops don't have to follow the same laws" go- to. Stevie Wonder can see that you are a bit on the "not gonna come out and say I dislike cops- but you get my drift" side. If your intent was to seem non- biased, it didn't read that way (or it could just be me).

You point out the reasons why LE is the cause of the disconnect, but no reasons on the citizen side. How about the parents that tell their kids "If you don't stop acting up, that cop is gonna lock you up"? Well, those kids grow up with a natural distrust of LE. Does this help with connecting? What about the folks that have no idea of the law, but insist on telling us what laws we can enforce? (My personal favorite: Go violate someone's Civil/ Constitutional Rights because a citizen THINKS that a "suspicious" person is breaking a law somewhere sometime).....What about folks who only like selective enforcement? You know, enforce the laws that don't affect me....How about the folks who ARE pulled over, and insist on being rude or belligerent? Even though they were breaking the law.......

I have no illusions that LE is perfect. I KNOW that there are bad cops. Same as there are bad people in every profession. It would be a safe guess that every day across the country, there are at a minimum of 1,000 contacts with LE. Not every one of those are bad. Hell, we very rarely hear of a positive contact. Why? People don't want to hear of the cop that helped an old lady chage her tire, or help get a lost family back on track to their vacation, or returned a runaway back to their family. Not news worthy. Same as you never hear of someone being treated rudely by a carpenter or mechanic.

As to Cops not being held to the same standard......I know of abslutely 0 carpenters, mechanics, or plumbers that lose their jobs for a Domestic Assault or DUI. I know of 2 cops that lost their jobs (fired) for Domestics, and 1 for a DUI. That's just my county alone. We're held to a different standard? You betcha!

 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

i did say that LE are held to a different standard.....but I was intending it to explain how citizens feel, whether that feeling is right or wrong. I don't want to walk up to a car in the middle of the night on a freeway so I appreciate you doing it for us.

But again, I intend all of my comments only to try and indicate a very general, overarching albeit somewhat shallow feeling that citizens have towards the law in general......which includes politicians, judges, lawyers and police. As a citizen i take some of the blame for the disconnect that i feel with my government. I am so frustrated with politicians i want the whole system to change.

If we walk away from this thread with more frustration and anger we are perpetuating the problem. My feeling is that it is wrong for any LE individuals to be upset with the guy in the video AND it is wrong for citizens to be upset with the cop. The driver in the video is guilty only of wasting a little of the cops time but did educate many people about the law. The cop really did not do anything wrong (unless the bit about the sign being down was actually illegal and was intentionally placed on the ground by the cops). That cop is on edge for sure. Working a late night shift, on a busy roadway, with impatient drivers and never knowing when some idiot might pull a gun......the adrenaline might put me to sleep in just a couple of hours. It can be a taxing job and i have compassion for what you go through. Thank you to all LE personel!
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He was within his rights. The cops were not (RYFC- Read Your _____ Constitution)

No cop worth the copper in his badge would man one of those police state checkpoints.

Fortunately, my department agrees.</div></div>

So, following lawful orders to participate in activity allowed by law is somehow not okay?
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone that I know that has done a ride along has had a different outlook on the way work and how we are treated, especially with the cameras in the cars. The first thing the ride alongs tell me is that they can't believe the way people talk to us. </div></div>

HAHAHAHAHAHA! NO.

I really wish I could elaborate. Every cop I know, both family and friends in multiple states/cities, will openly tell you they have a pud job and pretty much do as they please. Not one has ever said anything, let alone complained, about how hard their job is or the amount of scrutiny they are under. </div></div>



You have zero idea what the fuck you are talking about.
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Patrick, I am not lumping you in with anyone, nor am I implying that most cops are bad. I do not believe that most cops are bad. If you look at my posts again, you will see that I said that I think that <span style="font-weight: bold">most cops are our friends</span>, but that there are <span style="font-weight: bold">some</span> bad ones. I did not say that you were one of them. I do not know you, so how could I say that? I have also said that I am mostly pro-LE.

As far as having a specific problem, the problem my friend had, which I mentioned, was more than big enough for all of us to sit up and take notice. It was not a problem with one cop, but a problem with several, all of whom acted illegally. I don't think that too many people have over $10,000.00 sitting around to give to an attorney to handle something that a few cops made up.

I am not saying that only some laws should be enforced. I am saying that, if a driver is acting like he or she may be intoxicated, by all means pull them over. But, I am saying that sobriety checkpoints are BS, because they involve stopping cars whose drivers are showing no signs of intoxication.

I think very highly of the job that most cops do. Frankly, I think most of them are underpaid for what they have to deal with. The problem is that, when a cop alters evidence, that cop does not have to personally pay an attorney. The "suspect" does. The cop's actions are defended by a department which has a lot more money than most individuals. Even when the "suspect" is exonerated, it will have cost them significant money which they would not have had to spend, if the cops in question had acted legally.

You stated that you train to be nice to everyone and have a plan to kill them. I am sure, therefore, that you will understand that I now prepare to be nice to everyone I meet, including all police officers, but have a plan to legally slam any police officer who acts illegally in dealing with me. I am certain that you will not disagree that we need to get the small proportion of bad cops off of the streets.
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Tigerhawk, I have zero problem with anything you stated. I have zero tolerance for bad/dirty cops. They make all cops look bad. Have a plan to deal with a bad cop, but don't assume he's a bad cop going in. You generally get what you give.
Patrick
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Am I the only one that wants to go on a ride along? Or believes that cops have way to much red tape to swim through?
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: topgun99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a cop too and while I understand how both sides feel that guy was a jackass looking for a fight. We do these all the time and have been thanked over and over by the local residents for being there, they want us there. These "checkpoints" are not just for DUI but for narcotics trafficing and burglars. We use them in areas hit by thieves to try and catch them coming or going and it works. It takes one minute to show your license and insurance and if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. </div></div>

Pre crime should stay in bad Hollywood movies. Freedom, regardless of how many sheep thank you is something very frail as our countries current state shows.
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

The only thing that I would have done differently than the man in that video is that I would have gladly shown the officer my ID, and my registration and insurance card, if he had wanted those as well. If he wanted anything else, he had better be able to articulate, specifically, why he thinks he has probable cause. I always have my attorney on speakerphone when I am pulled over, or going through a checkpoint, so that he can hear the entire interaction. If the police want to overstep the bounds of their authority, their department can deal with him, which they will probably not enjoy. I am generally pro-LE, but some police officers appear to think that non-police citizens work for them, and have to do everything they say, right or wrong. I am not recommending physical confrontation with a police officer, but I do suggest that people might want to educate themselves on what their rights actually are, in detail.

If we do not exercise our rights, we will lose them.
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always have my attorney on speakerphone when I am pulled over, or going through a checkpoint, so that he can hear the entire interaction.</div></div>

Where's the :rolls eyes: smiley when you need it? I DO hope he charges you every time you do that...
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I have done it twice, and both times, it helped. I have no issue showing them my ID, etc., but it does seem to keep the fishing-type questions from even being asked. Also, since I do not drink, I never appear inebriated anyway.

Also, since most police officers seem to think that if someone is doing nothing wrong, they should have nothing to fear, precisely what issue do you, as a police officer, have with my having my attorney present (by speakerphone) during questioning? If a police officer is doing nothing wrong, they should have no reason to mind if my attorney hears what they say, should they?
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have done it twice, and both times, it helped. I have no issue showing them my ID, etc., but it does seem to keep the fishing-type questions from even being asked. Also, since I do not drink, I never appear inebriated anyway. </div></div>

If you don't drink, then what is your point of not co-operating? You just like to be a hard ass? Did you ever consider that the reason the cops are asking you the questions is to get you to talk to see if there is odor coming out of your breath?
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I have a friend who is a criminal defense attorney in Houston, he passes out his business card and says that if you are ever pulled over just hand it to the officer. I don't drink so it is not an issue but I always wondered what would happen if I handed it to a police officer.

"I understand that I do not have to answer any questions or volunteer any information. Therefore, I choose not to make any statements or answer any questions. Furthermore, I choose not to take any voluntary roadside field sobriety evaluations (ABC's, touch nose, balancing tests, eye tests, etc.) or any handheld ALCOSENSOR® breath tests.I invoke my RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT including my right not to take any of the aforementioned roadside field sobriety evaluations.
I DO NOT CONSENT TO A SEARCH of my person, my vehicle, or any of my property. I INVOKE MY RIGHT TO A LAWYER and request that I be allowed to call attorney."
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Texagator, my attorney would happily identify himself, or speak to the officer, and his name is very well known. I am not looking for a confrontation. I am simply making sure that my rights are not violated. I do not need any mercy, since I am not asking for the officer not to write whatever ticket he pulled me over to write.

As far as you taking the cell phone out of my hand, wouldn't you have to be arresting me for something before you could legally do that? If I am cooperating with you, and have done nothing beyond a simple traffic infraction, what would you be arresting me for, and precisely what problem do you have with my attorney hearing our conversation?
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Thank you, ut775ln. That seems to be an even better idea than what I have been doing, and, from now on, I will do that instead,
 
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

paulosantos, I am not trying to be a hard ass. I am simply trying to make sure my rights are respected. I don't know what experiences you have had, but one of my friends had his civil rights severely violated after being pulled over for a simple traffic stop, and the violation of his rights was a result of a question the officers asked him that they had no right to ask. My friend was doing nothing wrong beyond the infraction they stopped him for. Some (not anywhere near a majority of) officers care less about truth and justice than they care about racking up points. Ever since that event, we are all a little more careful about making sure our rights are protected.

To answer your question, if the officer can see if there is odor coming out of my breath by having me talk, then why is it that they have not already made that determination from my saying, "Good afternoon, officer. May I ask why you pulled me over?" which I say before they ask me anything?
 
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