Vietnam era M 14 sniper/spotter

[Random Guy]

Resurrecting this old thread with a project update. First, here's the initial inspiration, as seen in Peter Senich's book, The Long-Range War (1994):

...and here's my retro project. I got the figured E2 NOS stock this month, and the repo buttpad this week from a local buddy, and while I still need to fit a full-length faux connector rod, and do some other minor tweaks, like hunting down the correct swivel buttpad hardware, it's pretty close to complete. I hope to try it at the range soon, but in the meantime, thought I'd post a few pics of my latest project, an "M14A1 Improvised Sniper rifle" as used in Vietnam circa 1970-71.

Scope mount is an old Army Weapons Command or 'AWC' unit that was first used in Vietnam in 1967. A few dozen of these mounts w/ M84 scopes found their way onto US Army Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) M14A1 rifles w/ E2 stocks, per an American Rifleman article published in January 1968.

The M14A1 muzzle stabilizer is a reproduction part that I think was made up in Michigan in the 1980s, but its nice, appears to be forged. No range report yet, but hope to try it out later this month, schedule permitting. Just some random pics for this older thread re Vietnam era M14 sniper rifles.

 

[RTH1800]

I’m amazed at what folks on this site do. Thanks for posting!

 

[FatBoy]

Resurrecting this old thread with a project update. First, here's the initial inspiration, as seen in Peter Senich's book, The Long-Range War (1994):
View attachment 7683521
...and here's my retro project. I got the figured E2 NOS stock this month, and the repo buttpad this week from a local buddy, and while I still need to fit a full-length faux connector rod, and do some other minor tweaks, like hunting down the correct swivel buttpad hardware, it's pretty close to complete. I hope to try it at the range soon, but in the meantime, thought I'd post a few pics of my latest project, an "M14A1 Improvised Sniper rifle" as used in Vietnam circa 1970-71.
View attachment 7683522
Scope mount is an old Army Weapons Command or 'AWC' unit that was first used in Vietnam in 1967. A few dozen of these mounts w/ M84 scopes found their way onto US Army Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) M14A1 rifles w/ E2 stocks, per an American Rifleman article published in January 1968.
View attachment 7683526
The M14A1 muzzle stabilizer is a reproduction part that I think was made up in Michigan in the 1980s, but its nice, appears to be forged. No range report yet, but hope to try it out later this month, schedule permitting. Just some random pics for this older thread re Vietnam era M14 sniper rifles.
View attachment 7683528

No shit man, they should have hired you to find Hillary’s emails. You’ve don’t some amazing stuff but pulling this one together is on another level….

 

[Random Guy]

Thanks, these old school builds keep me busy, but it does hurt the wallet from time-to-time. This humble collection took almost a decade: Examples circa 1938 to 1988 of walnut-stocked M1s, beginning with a gas trap repo/restoration, and ending with an M21 replica. Representative examples of US military service rifles: 4 standard infantry rifles from WWII to Vietnam, and 4 old school sniper rifles from 1950s to late 1980s...a tribute to John C. Garand's genus.
I guess I like the vintage/retro stuff.

 

[Random Guy]

Random update to this project for anyone interested in my early Vietnam era 'M14A1 improvised sniper'. Around Christmas an old M14 gunsmith sold me a vintage Springfield Armory 'E2' stock that was lacking a buttpad and front swivel metal, but it had lots of neat patina. So I spent months hunting down E2 stock metal, and mocked it up. This walnut E2 stock has tons of character from its prior service life in the 1960s.

The original wood forend grip had presumably cracked the bottom of the forend, and a large wood spice was used as a repair by the front swivel. I used the 1965 era reinforcement kit that improved the strength of the front sling swivel installation, which the original stocks from 1964 lacked. Moreover, it has 7(!) brass pins reinforcing the side of the stock at the selector lock and side wall areas - although there are no cracks, so it presumably was done as a preventative/strengthening measure.

It has a DAS stamp on the stock and was likely one of the 8,350 M14A1 rifles that SA delivered to the US Army in late 1964. They were primarily intended as Squad Automatic rifles, but a few dozen of these M14A1 rifles were actually used a 'improvised M14A1' sniper rifles circa 1967, when the Army Weapon Command (or AWC) scope mount and the little 2.2x M84 scopes were sent to Vietnam beginning in March 1967. Per the 1968 article pasted blow, they were reportedly used w/ both M118 match ammo & M198 Duplex ammo in these rifles.

The inspiration of this M14A1 sniper rifle was an excerpt from an old article: “Snipers in Vietnam Also Need Firepower,” by Louis A. Garavaglia, American Rifleman, January 1968, pages 18-19:

“During my Vietnam tour of duty as a first lieutenant with the Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol Company of the 4th Division, U.S. Army, a sniper detachment was made an organic part of our unit. All who volunteered for this had firearms knowledge and experience before entering the Army.

The detachment was divided into 3-man teams which usually operated at considerable distances from conventional troop units. If spotted and attacked while moving to or from an objective, the team was on its own. Its survival dependent on being able to deliver ample firepower.

At first the sniper detachment had no standardized Table of Organization and Equipment and so we had plenty of latitude in our choice of weapons. This let us intensively range test the Winchester 70 and Remington Model 700, the scoped bolt actions used by Marine snipers, and compare them with the M14, M16A1, and 3 versions of the Russian AK-47 Assault Rifle. (My note: The author is pictured with a captured Czech Model 58 Assault rifle, so I suspect that may have been one of the three variants tested).

Our area of operations, the Central Highlands, ran the gamut from very dense to very sparse vegetation. The bolt actions would have been ideal for the 800-to 1000-meter shots the later areas afforded, but they couldn’t deliver the volume punch the 3-man teams needed to fight their way out of jungle ambushes.

The M16A1 functioned well when kept cleaned and lubricated properly, and had the added advantage of light-weight ammunition; the AK-47s scored high in ruggedness and the capacity to function even with deteriorated ammunition. But we finally settled on a modified version of the M14.

The M14s, all made by Harrington & Richardson, were modified as follows:

• Selector switches were installed, to provide volume firepower capability.
• Straight-line stocks designed for the M14E2 were mounted. With no drop at the comb and an almost vertical pistol grip, these were more comfortable for use with a scope than the standard stock and gave better control of fully-automatic fire.
• M84 2.2X scopes were attached by a single, heavy coin-slotted screw which engages the hole in the left side of the M14 receiver. The scope has a sliding sunshade and detachable rubber eyepiece. Its reticle is a tapering vertical post with horizontal crosshair. The scope showed a tendency to slip out of zero when first used, but we solved the problem by removing all lubricant from the contact points. Rust was preferable to inaccuracy.
• Light clamp-on bipods designed for the M16A1 were substitutedfor the bipods originally made for the M14 because we felt the latter were unnecessarily heavy. The clamp-on bipod snaps neatly onto the M14 gas cylinder just in front of the spindle valve.

With M14s thus modified, seasoned marksmen, firing from the prone position at 700 meters, had no trouble hitting the Army “E” type silhouette targets, which correspond roughly to a man in kneeling position. And this range was far greater than most of those at which hits were later made.

On missions, M14-armed snipers carried nine 20-round magazines loaded 18 rounds to the magazine: 2 (mags) of the match-grade ammunition; the remaining 7 (mags) were loaded with the 7.62mm “duplex” round. In a fire fight, snipers would eject the match-grade, switch to “duplex” and flip the selector switch to full-automatic for volume fire.”
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(FWIW, the author of that 1968 article is still around, and I corresponded with him last year, so I'll going to send him some pics of this odd-ball replica project. He is seen the right side of the last picture, with the tiger stripe uniform. Just a random factoid).

 

[RTH1800]

You mention the Duplex ammo. Years ago a Vietnam vet told me he carried an M14 in 67/68. He told me in close cover he used duplex ammo. I knew he was correct as he was a gun guy and not inclined to actually say much at all about the war and no need to embellish. Other vets called BS. Then I found an article describing it in detail. It was a standard 7.62 round except it had two bullets one set over the other the outer bullet was very hollowed out for the tip of the inner bullet to fit into. Appeared to be about like a hollowed out 110 grain 30 cal. carbine bullet. . According to the article and my friend at 50M or less they would hit within 2-3 feet of each other. Not high BC of course due to light weight and conical nature of the bullets. Still it doubled your chance of a hit.

 

[Random Guy]

Here's the email I got back from the author of that 1968 article. I had asked him if he remembered whether or not they used the unique muzzle stabilizer sometimes seen on M14A1s when used in the Squad Automatic role (attached is a pic)

You've done a dandy job of re-creating the sniper rifles we used back in 1967---my compliments. Yours certainly LOOK like the ones we used. Never, though, did I ever see one of those muzzle stabilizers, and I believe I would have remembered such an item.

My only question would be about the front handgrip. I don't recall whether we left them on the rifles or removed them (or whether they were removed by some other authority). Unfortunately, I don't have any old pix that would address this question. Perhaps only continued research will tell the story.

He previously offered this little snippet of his service in Vietnam when I first contacted him:

I'll dig out the original full-length article and re-read it---maybe something else will come to mind. I do remember an incident in which one of my three-man teams had to shoot its way out of an engagement with a platoon-size North Vietnamese unit. I don't recall what weapons the team was using, but I'm copying one of them herewith, as he may recall the armament involved.

The question of weaponry at that time is a broad one---for example, at various times I carried an M3A1 grease gun, an AK-47, or an M1A1 Thompson.

....based on the article he wrote in early 1968, I suspect in that fight they were using an M14A1 and bunch of Duplex ammo... (I have only 5 rds of 1964 dated M198 Duplex ammo for display purposes, but hope to find a display box of D198 one day. There are actually two bullets in each case).
Here's an old article on Duplex ammo:

http://www.veritasresearchconsulting.com/M14_Manuals/M140664_red.pdf

 

[RTH1800]

I had a Devine M14 with the exact same stabilizer on it. Also had the vented hand guard.