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Vindman

For some reason, you can't understand that an illegal investigation, based on falsified documents with no other purpose than to remove the President is a coup.
Not all coups are military/violent takeover's.
I'm guessing you never served in the military. Not that there is an issue with that specifically, but without a frame of reference, and your willing blindness to the facts, then you'll never understand.

I served for 24 years. I served with some incredible folks. I also served with pieces of shit. Wearing a uniform does not mean that you aren't a piece of shit.

Heard it said, "Scratch the paint on a hero and you'll often find a shitbitd underneath."
 
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Never served, and I totally get that good and bad folks alike wear the same uniform. I do really respect the act of putting yourself at hazard for the US in a way most Americans never do, even if plenty of shitheads hold that card. But calling a pretty legitimate impeachment inquiry and trial in the Senate a “coup” raises the BS flag to me, and reading the testimony given during those hearings and the transcript of that call is not willing blindness to facts as much as ignoring them is IMO. Agree to disagree I guess.
Yes we disagree (that's okay)
But, to call it a legitimate impeachment shows that you are either naive, or part of the problem.
President Trump has the distinction of being the first president impeached for a crime that does not exist.

I'd be willing to bet that if local law enforcement arrested you on some made up offense, (let's say that offense is disagreeing with me), then they convicted you, you'd likely have a different opinion.

We can also disagree with the phone call, but I will admit, that it was poorly done. When the Ukrainian President himself says, he felt no obligation, then there is nothing there.
 
My hearing is pretty shitty, however I thought I heard he was retiring because Trump was being mean to him.
He should have met my drill sergeant- Sgt Gray. I met him in January of 69, will never forget him!
 
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Never served, and I totally get that good and bad folks alike wear the same uniform. I do really respect the act of putting yourself at hazard for the US in a way most Americans never do, even if plenty of shitheads hold that card. But calling a pretty legitimate impeachment inquiry and trial in the Senate a “coup” raises the BS flag to me, and reading the testimony given during those hearings and the transcript of that call is not willing blindness to facts as much as ignoring them is IMO. Agree to disagree I guess.
I stopped reading after "never served"!
 
Two of my high school classmates got service academy appointments. There were almost four of us. I served under no less than 5 ring knockers in the Army. Not one was stupid. Only one was really GTG. Two came along after they understood the premise of stepping back and watching the NCOs lead. I told one "you can have the credit sir. My job is to successfully field your order and make sure we don't use the body bags." He sat on his stool and said he thought we were trying to make him look bad. The chip on his shoulder was massive, worse since we were about the same age. The other two were honorable, smart, clueless...But Vindman - whether you understand the premise or not, committed treason. And no, I DON'T use that word lightly. Sorry to sound preachy, but his job was to follow policy as given by the "ELECTED OFFICIALS" we serve under. You really have no idea how many veterans have gritted their teeth to follow orders that were stupid as shit, but legal. Vindman took that to another level and did NOT deserve retirement and it's benefits...my .02
 
Some of you people have a really distorted idea of what going to a service academy is like. Usually, it's the people who never did make it in.........

Nobody hands you shit. Not your admission, not your commission, not your class ring, and certainly not your diploma. And once out in the fleet, no one who was sitting in any of the many professional training and qualification boards (where failure meant "not promotable") I had to sweat through gave a fuck where I got my commission from either.

Easily 3/4 of the guys in my USNA company were from working class backgrounds or from white collar families who came up from the bottom.

I can take some ring knocker ribbing (even though I never wear mine). But I'll be damned if I'll let anyone diminish or disrespect the amount of work, sweat, and will that it takes to make it through a group of schools that most couldn't enter even if they tried.
Real officers start as enlisted
 
You really have no idea how many veterans have gritted their teeth to follow orders that were stupid as shit, but legal. Vindman took that to another level and did NOT deserve retirement and it's benefits...my .02

I served under Carter and Clinton but retired before Obama. Many of my older friends have some unique terms of endearment for Johnson and McNamara.

When I was under the aforementioned buffoons, I felt that the only difference between the military and elementary school was that the latter had adult supervision.
 
I know a lot of officers who did West Point and Annapolis. And the louder they knocked their rings, the bigger shitbags they were. I've met several officers who you have to pull teeth to get them to admit they went to an academy because they do not want to be associated with the ring knockers. And I see why.
 
As an absolute statement, it's complete hogshit. And you know it. Too many instances of evidence to the contrary.
Yup, I tend to absolutely stay away from absolutes..
that being said though I met some officers that I liked that didn’t enlist first.
I have more respect for those that did and those that lead from the front or won’t send you to do anything they haven’t done.
I was trying to get a laugh and appear to have struck a nerve. My apologies ?Sir?.
 
Heard it said, "Scratch the paint on a hero and you'll often find a shitbitd underneath."

Most of the real heroes I've met (including a couple of MoH recipients) more fit a statement that should read "Scratch the paint on a hero and you will find someone who was scared sh*tless out of their mind but had buddies or victims to protect and just did whatever it took to get the job done without thinking at the moment."

Those are the real heroes. Cops who pulled people out of burning cars. Firemen who went into collapsing buildings. Soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who went into places they should never have survived. And saved others.

If you scratch the paint on a hero and find a shitbird... then you really are just scratching the paint on a shirtbird. Pretending to be a hero.

Hero is an over-used term these days anyway. Sorry, but Bruce Jenner isn't a hero.

While SSG David Bellavia won't ever admit he is.

The difference is pretty apparent.

Sirhr
 
Most of the real heroes I've met (including a couple of MoH recipients) more fit a statement that should read "Scratch the paint on a hero and you will find someone who was scared sh*tless out of their mind but had buddies or victims to protect and just did whatever it took to get the job done without thinking at the moment."

Those are the real heroes. Cops who pulled people out of burning cars. Firemen who went into collapsing buildings. Soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who went into places they should never have survived. And saved others.

If you scratch the paint on a hero and find a shitbird... then you really are just scratching the paint on a shirtbird. Pretending to be a hero.

Hero is an over-used term these days anyway. Sorry, but Bruce Jenner isn't a hero.

While SSG David Bellavia won't ever admit he is.

The difference is pretty apparent.

Sirhr


I've spent enough time with three MOH recipients to get a decent feel. Two were honorable and humble men. The third was a complete ass. Attempted to use his "fame" to run roughshod over those he disagreed with. Sad thing is he earned the dec.

You're on target about the overuse of hero. One take away I got from my time with these guys was I definitely was not just because I served.
 
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Yup, I tend to absolutely stay away from absolutes..
that being said though I met some officers that I liked that didn’t enlist first.
I have more respect for those that did and those that lead from the front or won’t send you to do anything they haven’t done.
I was trying to get a laugh and appear to have struck a nerve. My apologies ?Sir?.
No apology necessary. Humor is hard to convey on this.
 
I have more respect for those that did and those that lead from the front or won’t send you to do anything they haven’t done.

Guys like him?

At the end of the day you have to accept the fact that you cannot have all officers come from the ranks. There just would not be enough. And because of that, you have to accept that you may be ordered to do something they've never done or have only done in training. It doesn't just work that way in our armed forces. It works that way in just about every country with a professional military.
 
Guys like him?

At the end of the day you have to accept the fact that you cannot have all officers come from the ranks. There just would not be enough. And because of that, you have to accept that you may be ordered to do something they've never done or have only done in training. It doesn't just work that way in our armed forces. It works that way in just about every country with a professional military.


...and someone has to get things done. :LOL: