Rifle Scopes Viper PST vs Falcon glass quality

ReaperDriver

ReaperDriver

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    • Sep 5, 2009
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    Vegas Baby!
    #1
    Guys, now that the PST has been in folk's hands for a week or two.... all you guys with new PSTs, I'm interested in your opinion of how it compares to Falcon's glass. Is it twice as good, subtle differences, no real difference?

    I know its a subjective opinion, but I'm curious what your impression is for the owners who have both now.
     
    #3
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    Reaper,

    I'm not sure anyone received their 6-24 yet. Have you seen any reviews of them? My understanding was that only the 4-16's had shipped to date.

    As soon as I get mine, I'd be happy to compare it to my Falcon 4-14. But I'm not hearing anything that makes me believe it will be anytime soon.

    I've seen a few of your optics related posts lately, get a new stick? Or just got the "I gotta get a new scope" bug?
    grin.gif


    John
     
    #4
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reaper,

    I'm not sure anyone received their 6-24 yet. Have you seen any reviews of them? My understanding was that only the 4-16's had shipped to date.

    As soon as I get mine, I'd be happy to compare it to my Falcon 4-14. But I'm not hearing anything that makes me believe it will be anytime soon.

    I've seen a few of your optics related posts lately, get a new stick? Or just got the "I gotta get a new scope" bug?
    grin.gif


    John </div></div>

    A bit of the new scope bug. I sold my BDC Nikon from my SPR and wanted to move the Falcon over to the SPR and my bolt gun needs new glass. I'm also looking at getting a custom re-barrel next year, so I thought I'd go ahead and get the good glass for it now.

    But yeah, its mainly just a "gotta have it" bug. As much as I hate to admit, the Falcon 5.5-25x50 is working REALLY REALLY well on my .308. I just shot it at 1000 yds this week and it continues to amaze me. I have no issues with it at that range, and can easily see hits on a 10Wx17H" steel small man at 1K. I was also using the scope to spot for a friend who was shooting steel at 1500 yds and had no problems seeing the hits. The reticle has been spot on for repeatability and correct mil measurement. So I'm having a REALLY REALLY hard time justifying to myself to spend $2-3k on a NF, USO or S&B. My friend that I shot next to has a S&B that I looked through side by side and it was obviously way better in terms of clarity and color and resolution. But is it $2500 better? Given that my $475 scope worked just fine, I'm just not sure. I probably WILL spend the extra $$ in the end and get a high end scope - but I'll probably have some sleepless nights over it
    grin.gif
     
    #5
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    Yeah,

    I've been pretty happy with my 4-14. The eyebox gets a little fussy at 14x, I get a black donut. And the SF finally pooped the bed. RWS sent me a new one. I'm going out tomorrow to zero it and check a new LR load at 800 or 1000.

    I've been extremely impressed at how effective this scope has been for me, really at any price range, but amazing at $425.

    I hit steel at 1900 yds. with it 2 weeks ago (at 12x because the SF was screwed and I could only get a blur at 14x). Holdovers and wind holds were spot on.

    I can easily spot hits at 1500 yds on steel with it. I do feel that the 24x on top will give me a little better precision at long ranges.

    Good luck on your search. I'll post when mine comes in.

    John
     
    #6
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah,

    I've been pretty happy with my 4-14. The eyebox gets a little fussy at 14x, I get a black donut. And the SF finally pooped the bed. RWS sent me a new one. I'm going out tomorrow to zero it and check a new LR load at 800 or 1000.

    I've been extremely impressed at how effective this scope has been for me, really at any price range, but amazing at $425.

    I hit steel at 1900 yds. with it 2 weeks ago (at 12x because the SF was screwed and I could only get a blur at 14x). Holdovers and wind holds were spot on.

    I can easily spot hits at 1500 yds on steel with it. I do feel that the 24x on top will give me a little better precision at long ranges.

    Good luck on your search. I'll post when mine comes in.

    John </div></div>

    thanks John.
     
    #7
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    I edited the thread title. So any of you guys that got the PST 4-16x... How does it compare to either the Falcon 4-14 or 5-25x?

    Just wondering what the glass quality subjective opinons of the two are?
     
    #8
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    I picked up my NF 3.5x15 NIB off the for sale section for 1250$
    good deals come along to those who are patient.
     
    #9
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    Who sells Falcon? This thread has me curiouse because I just picked up a FN PBR XP .308 barreled action I'm going to do another custom build off of but once the rifle is up and running its going to be a bit before I can get another Nightforce.
     
    #10
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    I've been dealing with RWS Gunsmithing. He's a Hide member. Great guy. Great CS. I had trouble with the SF on mine 2 weeks ago at a shoot. Called him Tues. New one on it's way to me same day. What more can you ask?

    John
     
    #11
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I picked up my NF 3.5x15 NIB off the for sale section for 1250$
    good deals come along to those who are patient. </div></div>

    And this has *what* to do with a Falcon or a Viper PST?

    Serious question.

    Always curious about what draws these guys into a thread that have absolutely nothing useful to add.

    John
     
    #12
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I picked up my NF 3.5x15 NIB off the for sale section for 1250$
    good deals come along to those who are patient. </div></div>

    And this has *what* to do with a Falcon or a Viper PST?

    Serious question.

    Always curious about what draws these guys into a thread that have absolutely nothing useful to add.

    John </div></div>

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I'm having a REALLY REALLY hard time justifying to myself to spend $2-3k on a NF, USO or S&B.</div></div>

    if he would like a Nightforce but not for the store price, just letting him know that he could get one for a little more then a PST.
    Not tryng to be a dick here but your the only one who has shat on this thread so far.
     
    #13
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been dealing with RWS Gunsmithing. He's a Hide member. Great guy. Great CS. I had trouble with the SF on mine 2 weeks ago at a shoot. Called him Tues. New one on it's way to me same day. What more can you ask?

    John </div></div>

    Thanks for the heads up John!
     
    #14
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I picked up my NF 3.5x15 NIB off the for sale section for 1250$
    good deals come along to those who are patient. </div></div>

    And this has *what* to do with a Falcon or a Viper PST?

    Serious question.

    Always curious about what draws these guys into a thread that have absolutely nothing useful to add.

    John </div></div>

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I'm having a REALLY REALLY hard time justifying to myself to spend $2-3k on a NF, USO or S&B.</div></div>

    if he would like a Nightforce but not for the store price, just letting him know that he could get one for a little more then a PST.
    Not tryng to be a dick here but your the only one who has shat on this thread so far. </div></div>

    Sorry missed that.

    It didn't register as even remotely relevant to me, because I'm pretty sure Reaper is looking for an FFP.

    It may have looked like shat to you, but I grow weary of guys stumbling into threads and steering them off topic.

    I called you out. I was wrong.

    Moving on...

    John
     
    #17
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PST all the way.

    Mike @ CST </div></div>
    Mike, would like to know your opinion, is this over the NF or Falcon? (or both)
     
    #20
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    Probably off subject but

    Falcon vs. Barska? Really? Up front, I have never touched, seen, smelled, or had any contact at all with either one. Just going by what I have read but I would have thought these two were in separate classes by far. I have never heard anything remotely positive about Barska but mostly hear good things about Falcon. Although not the greatest, it seems that most people consider them a good buy.

    Again, I'm not knocking you or SWFA in general so don't take anything personal but can you explain why you would rate those two together?

    Mike
     
    #21
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not a fair comparison at all, Falcon vs. Barska Tactical would be more appropriate.

    http://swfa.com/Barska-Tactical-Rifle-Scopes-C30.aspx
    </div></div>

    OK, now that's just laughable.

    This is the sort of comment that will cause a dealer to lose credibility with me real quick. I haven't yet had the opportunity to look through a PST, but I *have* looked through just those Barska scopes in your post.

    You may not think highly of the Falcon Menace, you don't carry them that's clear. But you just came into a thread where two different owners posted very favorable results with them. Are you saying we don't know what were talking about?

    The Falcon has what I would call good glass. Not great. Lacks the *pop* that comes from really contrasty glass. Lowlight performance is off also. But I'd put it on par with the Nikon Monarch 5-20 I had. Most people think Nikon has pretty good glass.

    Comparing the Falcon to a Barska is apples and oranges. One has OK glass the other one doesn't operate correctly as an optic. The Barska I looked through could not resolve an adequate image on 16x. At all. Well... that's bad glass. On the order of NCStar, or BSA bad glass.

    Your comment would carry more weight with me if you carried both products.

    John
     
    #22
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    I know Barska takes a lot of heat and it is deserved in most cases. Barska has many levels of quality, the Tactical or SWAT lines are better than most of the other line. The Tactical line is FFP too.

    I am comaring the Falcon 5-25x50 FFP ($475.) to the Barska 6-20x50 FFP ($315.).

    We do not have a PST on hand currently but I can tell you that it is in another class than then Falcon....easily.
     
    #23
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    By the way we just picked up Falcon and they should be up on our site today or Monday.

    Anyone in the DFW area is welcome to stop by and do a side by side. Of course it won't say much about the durability of either.

    I was not so much putting down the Falcon as I was pointing out that it does not compare to the PST.

    I've seen a lot of bad posts about the Falcon like this thread,

    Official Falcon is CRAP thread.
    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1877594#Post1877594

    I know everyone has an opinion and some get their feelings hurt if you talk bad about something they own and it was not my intention.

    We are giving it a go with the Falcon line and if we get massive returns and complaints we will stop selling them as we did with ATN. I can tell you that the first one we have taken delivery of is not near PST quality and appears to be more in line with the Barska Tactical.
     
    #24
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got both. The PST is mo betta.
    </div></div>

    As long as I can make out my target, glass is good enough to me. Lowlight performance is one of the first places optics companies cut corners. But if you can't see it, you can't hit it. This is not the Falcon's strength. My Burris 4.5-14 FFII will kick its ass in lowlight.

    I don't need the highest quality glass in my riflescope, because I do 90% of my scouting with binos or a spotting scope.

    Having said all that...
    wink.gif
    how would you quantify "mo betta"?

    Thanks

    John
     
    #25
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By the way we just picked up Falcon and they should be up on our site today or Monday.</div></div>

    Some credibility restored. Thanks for stating that. It looked to me like you were putting down a product because you don't carry it. I hope the line works out well for you as I know a LOT of people that have been happily using them instead of shelling out hundreds (or thousands) more for these features.

    Look at the stats on this thread(ignore the conclusions which don't really seem to line up with the numbers):

    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1370890

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course it won't say much about the durability of either. I've seen a lot of bad posts about the Falcon </div></div>

    My take on this is similar to what happened with the PST's. Up front lots of glowing reports and expectations. A couple failures and the sky is falling. We don't necessarily hear from all the happy customers.

    In my case its not so much hurt feelings as the fact that I get tired of watching products get a bad rep where there is very little good data. Internet wildfires.

    My Falcon served me well and if I hadn't gotten another one under warranty I'd still consider it a great value for the feature set for around $400.


    John

    ETA: I jumped to conclusions TWICE now in this thread. A record I believe. Perhaps time to go back on my meds.
    wink.gif
     
    #26
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    I have both, and like them both. the only things I would complain about on the Falcon are the usual suspects(mushy clicks,touchy eye relief) but other than that, its a fine little scope for the money. I definately like the PST better though.
     
    #27
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PST all the way.

    Mike @ CST </div></div>
    Mike, would like to know your opinion, is this over the NF or Falcon? (or both) </div></div>

    The NF scope are one of the bast scopes on the market. They really will can take a beating and keep on going.

    The PST form what I have seen is much better the the Falcon. The NF is much better than the PST but you are not paying NF dollars for the PST.

    Mike @ CST
     
    #29
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuntinAZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You get what you pay for..... </div></div>

    That has become more than just a saying, and even more true when buying optics.
     
    #30
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got both. The PST is mo betta.
    </div></div>
    As long as I can make out my target, glass is good enough to me. Lowlight performance is one of the first places optics companies cut corners. But if you can't see it, you can't hit it. This is not the Falcon's strength. My Burris 4.5-14 FFII will kick its ass in lowlight.

    I don't need the highest quality glass in my riflescope, because I do 90% of my scouting with binos or a spotting scope.

    Having said all that...
    wink.gif
    how would you quantify "mo betta"?

    Thanks

    John </div></div>
    How would you like me to?
    Just reading through this thread it would be apparent to pretty much anyone that people's opinions of scopes and glass is almost completely subjective.
    I'm with you on your earlier post on the Falcon Menace.
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I've been extremely impressed at how effective this scope has been for me, really at any price range, but amazing at $425.
    </div></div>My Falcon Menace has performed well. The thread on the Falcon Menace is Crap is unfair in my opinion. The scope used as the scape goat is one that was on display long ago and needed to get fresh visibility for some reason. It screwed together. It was not a one piece tube like my Falcon. Whatever.
    So, when I say the PST is better keep in mind I have a positive opinion of the Falcon, if that helps.
    It is not twice as good IMO, just noticeably better.
     
    #31
    Re: Viper PST 6-24 vs Falcon 5-25 glass quality

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How would you like me to?
    Just reading through this thread it would be apparent to pretty much anyone that people's opinions of scopes and glass is almost completely subjective.
    I'm with you on your earlier post on the Falcon Menace.
    </div></div>

    Point well taken. I was just wondering if there was some aspect that really jumped out at you so far. Like, "the PST doesn't seem to vignette as much" or "I notice chromatic aberration in the Menace but not so much in the PST", or "the PST is crisp to the edge of field but the Falcon starts to drop off", "lowlight performance blows the Flacon away". These are the things I'd expect to see in higher quality optics.

    I worked for a medical ultrasound company for a few years back in the 90's and we found that a lot of our unresolved subjective complaints in the field could be resolved with some simple training about the differing aspects of image quality. Optics are like that too. Some people just "like what they see". Some people know what to look for and can put it in precise terms. Didn't mean to put you on the spot. Just curious how your brain processed all that information and popped out with "it's better!".

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, when I say the PST is better keep in mind I have a positive opinion of the Falcon, if that helps.
    It is not twice as good IMO, just noticeably better. </div></div>

    Thanks for your input.

    John
     
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