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Volume Gun Suggestions (RPR, CTR, ?)

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treillw

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Mar 3, 2017
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#1
I'm considering purchasing a volume gun to get more practice at shooting long range in the wind for hunting. I do not plan on doing any competitions, but I still want it to be a tack driver. It's nice to finally be looking for a rifle that I don't care how much it weighs. The two rifles I've considered thus far are the Tikka CTR and the Ruger Precision Rifle. From what I have read, both rifles are very accurate. I am kind of leaning towards the RPR, because I think I will want to make adjustments to the CTR stock and not be able to without purchasing an aftermarket chassis.

Which of these rifles would you go with, or do you have any other suggestions? I've also looked at the savage 10 BA Stealth, which I kinda like more than the RPR - the trigger on the one I handled was nicer and the stock and handguard setup on it is pretty nice. I haven't heard nearly as much buzz about this gun though as the others. I'm would bet that it shoots very good as well. The RPR probably has a lot more available aftermarket though.

I'm thinking about getting a new 6mm creedmoor for $720 and re-barreling it to 6.5 creedmoor with a top of the line barrel. That would make it roughly the same price as the new 6.5 creedmoors I see for sale, but likely shoot better from the higher quality barrel. Thoughts on this? Would a .223 be a better choice for a volume gun? I would like to stretch the distance out pretty far and think I'd have more fun with the 6.5 CM. How much could I sell the unfired factory 6 CM barrel for?

I've searched around and read through a bunch of threads on replacement RPR barrels. Is there a general consensus on who makes the best ones?

I saw that timney makes replacement triggers for the RPR. Will any remington style trigger fit on these? I have a bix n' andy trigger on my hunting rifle and would love to put the same trigger on the RPR.

What kind of scope would you top it with? Considering the SWFA fixed 10 power, Vortex Golden Eagle 5-60x52, and the Burris XTR II 8-40x50 after some minimal investigation. I guess I don't really need it to be the finest glass in the world since it's just a practice gun. If I can't see through the scope, I can shoot another day.

Lots of questions in there. Thanks for taking the time to help out with any of them!
 
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#3
I have a RPR that shoots very well with the factory barrel. Well enough that it is not the factor holding me back in prs style competitions. If I were to change it, I would go with LRI’s Bartlein barrel. You probably won’t be able to sell a factory take off barrel.

The factory trigger is ok, but the timney is WAY better. No, a Remington style trigger will not fit.

All the cool kids are switching to 6mm offerings. If you buy the 6mm creedmoor, shoot it and see how you like it. You could save yourself several hundred dollars.

I hate the butt stock. It is sharp on all the wrong places, and I replaced it with a magpul prs stock.

How far are you going to stretch the distance? 300, 600, 1200? 223 is more economical, but match your cartridge to your goals.

I have a vortex razor 5-20x50 on mine.

^^^This not the route I would go if I were wanting practice shooting for hunting. I’d just take out my hunting rifle. It’s what I’ll need to be practiced on when I take that shot.
 
#4
Yoteski said:
I think Frank lined up exactly what you need....

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...pers-hide-edition-rifle.6924480/#post-7497219
Click to expand...
That's double the price range that OP is looking at (CTR and RPR) and outclassed by offerings like the MPA BA PMR or the John Hancock Rifle in the same price range (significantly better actions).

In OP's price range I would recommend either the Ruger Precision Rifle or the Bergara B-14 HMR, depending on how much you care about chassis vs stock. Both will shoot tight groups and both will be a quality rifle.
 
#5
The 6mm RPR is by far the best deal going right now. Most of the factory RPR's are shooting pretty good. I certainly wouldn't just toss a barrel without even finding out how it shoots. 6mm is every bit as good if not better than the 6.5mm at long distance target shooting.

Please ignore the big magnification scopes for now. You don't need that much top end and the eye box tends to get very very tight. Something with a top end in the 20's will be much more forgiving to get behind and is still plenty for anything out to a mile. For the price I like the Burris XTR II 4-20/5-25 on the lower end of the price spectrum. However, if you can swing the funds for a tier 1 optic the current prices on the Vortex gen2 Razor are worth checking out, especially if you're willing to pick up a barely used second hand Razor from the PX. SWFA scopes are solid scopes, but are completely lacking in features for the prices.

You're clearly over thinking things a bit. We've all been there before. There are lots of good options these days. That can be a blessing and a curse. Sometimes you just have to take that leap of faith or you'll end up getting lost in the analyze paralyze.
 
#6
ThePretzel said:
That's double the price range that OP is looking at (CTR and RPR) and outclassed by offerings like the MPA BA PMR or the John Hancock Rifle in the same price range (significantly better actions).

In OP's price range I would recommend either the Ruger Precision Rifle or the Bergara B-14 HMR, depending on how much you care about chassis vs stock. Both will shoot tight groups and both will be a quality rifle.
Click to expand...

Uhm, he said he was going to rebarrel with a "top of the line barrel". So how far out of the price range is it really? Last I looked you're talking $500-700 for an RPR prefit. Add the tools needed plus gauges and how far off would he be?
 
#7
Yoteski said:
Uhm, he said he was going to rebarrel with a "top of the line barrel". So how far out of the price range is it really? Last I looked you're talking $500-700 for an RPR prefit. Add the tools needed plus gauges and how far off would he be?
Click to expand...
I think he mentioned the rebarrel because he can get a 6CM RPR for $700, which still puts him way, way below the price of Frank's gun after the rebarrel.

OP - if you're going to shoot it for a couple hundred rounds and then sell it, by the 6CM RPR and load up some rounds and go. If you're really going to be shooting it a bunch, I'd get a CTR and find a stock you like. I got a Manners T4A for mine and absolutely love it, but that isn't a chassis. The CTR will have a better trigger, likely be a hair more accurate, and have a smoother action. It will also cost more and have a worse stock. So it's really your call. The stock is easier to swap than the trigger/barrel/action if you're unhappy with it, so I'd go with the CTR. But neither is a bad option - 2 of the best values in long range rifles available.
 
#8
A stock ctr would feel and compare to the OP’s hunting rifle. There isn’t anything wrong with the stock at. It’s plenty stiff and isn’t uncomfortable. The rifles shoot well as they come from the factory.
 
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#9
wade2big said:
A stock ctr would feel and compare to the OP’s hunting rifle. There isn’t anything wrong with the stock at. It’s plenty stiff and isn’t uncomfortable. The rifles shoot well as they come from the factory.
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I shot my factory CTR stock for a long time with very good results. Only "complaint" from me in comparison to the RPR is the lack of an adjustable cheek. But I agree that it's not a major issue and I only upgraded to the T4A for looks/ergonomics. I only brought it up because the stock is probably the biggest (potentially the only) downside of the Tikka compared to the RPR. It's certainly not unusable or anything.
 
#10
patriot07 said:
I shot my factory CTR stock for a long time with very good results. Only "complaint" from me in comparison to the RPR is the lack of an adjustable cheek. But I agree that it's not a major issue and I only upgraded to the T4A for looks/ergonomics. I only brought it up because the stock is probably the biggest (potentially the only) downside of the Tikka compared to the RPR. It's certainly not unusable or anything.
Click to expand...
Tikka’s have low scope rails factory installed. With the correct rings and keeping the objective small, an adjustable cheek piece isn’t necessary.

The OP can shoot as is for now. If he wants to upgrade the stock now or later he has that option. I do like the looks of the tikka ctr in a manners T4a and there is no doubt it’s a better stock.
 
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#12
hlee said:
All the cool kids are switching to 6mm offerings. If you buy the 6mm creedmoor, shoot it and see how you like it. You could save yourself several hundred dollars.
Click to expand...

Why are the cool kids going to the 6 CM over the 6.5 CM?

6mm just didn't excite me too much because I've been shooting a .243 for years and feel like it's almost the same thing.
 
#13
treillw said:
Why are the cool kids going to the 6 CM over the 6.5 CM?

6mm just didn't excite me too much because I've been shooting a .243 for years and feel like it's almost the same thing.
Click to expand...

It is basically the same thing. Biggest difference between 6 creed and 243 is availability of factory match grade ammo.

Nothing wrong with 6.5 if that's what you want, but 6mm has less recoil, less time of flight and less wind drift.
 
#14
My understanding is the switch is for lower recoil in competition. Less recoil means that the rifle moves less and impacts are easier to spot through the rifle scope. One can also argue that a lighter recoiling rifle is easier to shoot well. And, a lighter weight rifle can be built around a lighter recoiling cartridge, making the package more handy.
 
#16
treillw said:
Why are the cool kids going to the 6 CM over the 6.5 CM?

6mm just didn't excite me too much because I've been shooting a .243 for years and feel like it's almost the same thing.
Click to expand...
It's just the new and cool version of .243, with better availability of factory ammo (specifically match ammo) because Hornady has really been pushing the Creedmoor cartridges hard onto the industry. From a ballistics standpoint the two are pretty much identical if you load your own ammo or use comparable factory loads.

As for 6 Creedmoor over 6.5 Creedmoor, people are doing it for flatter trajectories inside 800 yards and slightly reduced recoil for PRS-style competition.
 
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#17
I'm shooting a .300 win with 215 berger for hunting. Is either the 6.5 or the 6 a better training tool compared to my hunting gun? I can't imagine that they would be drastically different.
 
#18
Sheldon N said:
What is your definition of "volume", in rounds per range trip? Rounds per month?
What is your definition of "stretch the distance"?
Click to expand...

Volume = nothing crazy by most peoples standards. Maybe 50-100 shots per range trip. Max of 4 trips a month maybe. But that is significantly more volume than I'd be shooting through my 300 win. I'll shoot as much as I need to to get a better feel for judging wind.

Stretching the distance - there is a 2000 yard range by my house, so as far as I can go. I'd like to be able to play at 1000 or 1200. Realistic hunting distances are 700 and under.
 
#19
I have a RPR with a brand new unfired Criterion barrel in the PX for $1k shipped. It is cerakoted, has a good brake, and an Ergo grip. It should be a solid 1/2 moa gun with the right ammunition.
6.5 RPR w/new Criterion barrel
 
#21
Howa 1500 Bravo in the caliber of choice. You can either buy the complete rifle from Brownells or several others, or you can buy a barreled action from Brownells and the Bravo chassis direct from KRG
 
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#22
treillw said:
Volume = nothing crazy by most peoples standards. Maybe 50-100 shots per range trip. Max of 4 trips a month maybe. But that is significantly more volume than I'd be shooting through my 300 win. I'll shoot as much as I need to to get a better feel for judging wind.

Stretching the distance - there is a 2000 yard range by my house, so as far as I can go. I'd like to be able to play at 1000 or 1200. Realistic hunting distances are 700 and under.
Click to expand...

I would point you towards the 223 as probably the best option for your training goals.

400 rounds/month. Almost 5000 rounds per year. Cost of ammo is going to be MUCH cheaper with 223. Barrel life becomes a real factor. You're talking about ~2 barrels/year with 6.5, maybe a touch less. Closer to 3 barrels a year with a 6mm. Overall cost difference for you is going to be over $2k per year more expensive to shoot a 6mm or 6.5mm vs shooting 223.

Shooting with a 223 is just generally more pleasant. Much easier to shoot 75 rounds and not feel beat up or fight significant barrel heat, less time spent waiting for barrel to cool down.

Reloading 223 is much easier assuming you reload. If you don't reload, you absolutely should start to do so talking about this kind of volume of shooting. Progressive press (Dillon), inexpensive brass (bulk LC), bullets and powder in bulk. So much easier to have a bucket of ammo to shoot from, rather than a box of carefully crafted higher power rounds with more expensive brass. The time you save at the reloading bench would be massive, considering 5k rounds per year.

You will have to back off your expectations of stretch the distance with the 223, keeping it inside of 700 yards or so. If you want to shoot long go back to your main rifle so it's also still familiar to shoot. All other training goals are going to be relevant. You can improve your mechanics/fundamentals, practice various shooting positions even traditional stuff like offhand, seated etc, and you will definitely improve your wind reading skills.

My 0.02.
 
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#24
Sheldon N said:
I would point you towards the 223 as probably the best option for your training goals.

400 rounds/month. Almost 5000 rounds per year. Cost of ammo is going to be MUCH cheaper with 223. Barrel life becomes a real factor. You're talking about ~2 barrels/year with 6.5, maybe a touch less. Closer to 3 barrels a year with a 6mm. Overall cost difference for you is going to be over $2k per year more expensive to shoot a 6mm or 6.5mm vs shooting 223.
Click to expand...

The information I gave would definitely be the max I would ever shoot - maybe the month or two leading up to hunting season I would shoot that much and when I first got the rifle playing with it. Realistically for the rest of the year, I'd probably shoot 50 - 100 rounds a month.

Your points on the .223 are still very good.

I do reload, just FYI.
 
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#25
treillw said:
The information I gave would definitely be the max I would ever shoot - maybe the month or two leading up to hunting season I would shoot that much and when I first got the rifle playing with it. Realistically for the rest of the year, I'd probably shoot 50 - 100 rounds a month.
Click to expand...

Well why didn't you say that then? :)
 
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#27
Could I achieve similar practice goals with a semi auto? A 6.5 grendel AR has piqued my interested for a long time. I would consider a 6.5 CM ar10 too if my bolt gun is going to be 10lb plus anyway.
 
#28
treillw said:
Could I achieve similar practice goals with a semi auto? A 6.5 grendel AR has piqued my interested for a long time. I would consider a 6.5 CM ar10 too if my bolt gun is going to be 10lb plus anyway.
Click to expand...

An AR is a different animal when it comes to long range shooting. For me it is easier to shoot a bolt gun at longer ranges and be more consistent. I had a 6.5 Grendel and shot it in some local club matches. Did well at times, but past 600 yards it gives up a lot to a Creedmoor, 6 or 6.5. A good long range AR10 is going to be 12 lbs plus. My 556 AR15 with an 18" SPR type barrel weighs almost 12.
 
#29
Are there any chassis or stock setups out there for the CTR that don't cost practically as much as the rifle itself? I probably would go with the CTR, if cost was equal.

The KRG Bravo looks pretty cool.
 
#33
I'd personally stay away from the 6. They shoot out barrels quite a bit faster than the 6.5 CM, and that would be a bigger disadvantage to a regular weekend joe than the relatively minor ballistic differences.
 
#35
I have the Ruger Precision and 3 Tikka T3 rifles.... one of my Army buddys has the Savage Stealth. Plenty of trigger time behind all of them.
None are junk.
I would rate the Ruger and the Tikka neck in neck for precision but, If I was looking for a hunting rifle that I was gonna pack as well it would be the Tikka.
The Savage is nice and cheaper in cost than the Ruger Precision but, for under $700 (what I paid for all my Tikka T3s) and 7lbs shooting MOA outta the box, the Tikka are really a great packing and shooting rifle.
 
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#36
I remember once upon a time when the 308 used to be the go to recommendation in these situations and twice on Sunday...

good barrel life, good brass life, not too expensive, far better long range performance than 223... now not even a single mention of 308...

I must be getting old :unsure:
 
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#37
goosed said:
I remember once upon a time when the 308 used to be the go to recommendation in these situations and twice on Sunday...

good barrel life, good brass life, not too expensive, far better long range performance than 223... now not even a single mention of 308...

I must be getting old :unsure:
Click to expand...
If you're starting from scratch, there is no reason to go 308 over 6.5. The debate is really 6.5 vs 223, with 223 being only marginally cheaper unless you shoot tons and tons of volume, but with significantly inferior ballistics.
 
#39
goosed said:
I remember once upon a time when the 308 used to be the go to recommendation in these situations and twice on Sunday...

good barrel life, good brass life, not too expensive, far better long range performance than 223... now not even a single mention of 308...

I must be getting old :unsure:
Click to expand...

For a trainer? I don’t remember that, and trainers have only gotten popular since matches blew up in the last 5 years or so.

223 is a better option for a trainer for a lot of reasons. Cheaper more available brass, half the powder charge, and cheaper pew nuggets. The inferior ballistics to the 308 (in most cases) also give it an advantage in the trainer aspect since errors in wind calls show up more.
 
#41
223's are the go-to for sending lots of rounds down range, they are just fun to shoot a lot and the first thing I think of when I see the word "volume".
But if it's windy 223 can be frustrating, even in light winds at farther distances, and it's hard to see where you are hitting or missing because the bullets lose energy quick and are lighter weight and lower BC to begin with. 1000Y for a 223 with 77's gets a bit silly, don't expect the cartridge to be more than it is.

Some mentions, don't get used to your 223 in the wind and hunt with your 300 expecting the wind call to be even close, the 300 will be half the call of the 223. Also your 300 won't be near as much fun to shoot as it used to be.

Now some interesting news, 223AI with the 88's in a 28" barrel, what I use for messing around, does really well at longer distances in normal winds. It's not hard keeping those bullets on a 19" steel at 1122Y in fair conditions. It'll get close to the same barrel life of 223, won't heat a barrel up quick, low recoil, the list goes on... I get that .545BC bullet going 2814 fps with 24.6 grains of powder which is the low node in my rifle! It's not much different than the ballistics of a 6.5 Creed with 130's in say a 24" barrel but without the extra recoil and component cost. However my freebore is longer than normal so you'd have to run higher pressure loads to approach the speed I get, or get your chamber throated long and use modified mags.

I'm not sorry I built my 223AI! It's a relief knowing I won't need to replace my barrel for years!
 
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