Rifle Scopes Vortex rifle scope decision

[Ydasianea]

I will soon be purchasing myself a little gift for making it through another year of college and my rifle is in need of a new scope. The rifle is a custom 30-06 and will be used for hunting and my intro rifle to long range precision shooting.
I have narrowed my search down to the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 https://tacticsfaq.com/vortex-hst-vs-pst/ with the MOA reticle or the Vortex Viper HS-T 4-16x44 with the MOA reticle.
I am also considering the same HS-T but in a 6-24x50. Is 6 power too much magnification for closer quick shots?
My preference is with the HS-T but I don't like the reticle being MOA and the adjustments being MRAD. Would this be an issue or not anything to worry about?
I want to stick with an MOA reticle and keep my price in the 500 to 700 dollar range.
Any advice on other scopes that fit this bill or advice on the Reticle/Adjustment difference would be appreciated.

 

[patriot07]

I’d go with the PST gen 2 3-15. It’s a big step up over both of those, and can be had used at the top of your price range.

 

[42769vette]

THe HST has MOA turrets/MOA reticle, or MRAD turrets/MRAD reticle.

 

[spife7980]

I would skip both the first gen pst and hst. The glass isn’t great and the knobs, while functional, suck. And don’t pay over 500 for one.

Go with the athlon midas tac from cameralandny over the phone and tell them you’re a hide member. Has a capped windage and zero stop so you don’t have to worry about loosing your zero. It’s ffp and doesn’t have illumination but if you were preferring the hst then that’s no big deal. If you’re going to be shooting in the bushes then get a 3-9 but since you’re saying long range then the low power usage and smaller reticle is a lower priority, it becomes a thin duplex at minimum power. I hunt in south Texas and I’ve never once used my scope at anything less than 14x.

I just really hate the pst and hst scopes.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

"and the knobs, while functional, suck. "
I know some people don't like the shims for a zero stop. But what else "sucks" about them?

"I just really hate the pst and hst scopes. "
Could you elaborate on why?

 

[spife7980]

The knobs are super stiff and heavy, on my used-to-be 6-24 pst and my cousins 6-24 hst you have to really grab onto them. If they were wider then that level of tension would be more spread out and feel better but they are tall and skinny so it takes more force than I like. That plus the knurled finish makes them uncomfortable in my hands.

Only 5 mils per revolution too. That limited adjustment per rotation means you’re dialing multiple revolutions to get way out there which makes the lack of internal zero stop even more of a hassle having to remember where you’re at once you get off the rifle and shoot another stage/target. I don’t like the narrow slit window that the elevation indicator is in, though I guess it helps assuage complaints with the lines not lining up perfect. The lines lining up perfect doesn’t bother me much, it’s just what they did to try and mask it I guess that rubs me wrong.

The “zero stop” shims suck, mine were little half moons with detents that never really stacked right and made install a pain.

Don’t go over 20x otherwise it gets dark and it’s not very sharp. I’ve heard the 4-16 prescription is better but I’m skeptical that it’s not just wider and the issues aren’t as pronounced.

My 3-10 weaver tac Natchez 200 buck special I got just to have a backup on the shelf is much more pleasant to shoot that the first gen pst, missing all the same features but it’s also wayyyy cheaper.

I am pretty impressed with the gen2 pst, it fixes all of the first gens shortcomings. I just don’t think the first gen is worth what they charge for it. My 4.5-27 Midas btr was 250 via cameraland and that’s the price I think the first gen pst demands.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Are you familiar with First Focal Plane (FFP) vs. Second Focal Plane (SFP) scopes? Have you actually looked through both? Do you have a preference for a certain style of reticle (open center, center dot, Christmas tree, etc as well as MOA/MIL)? I think it's very important that you understand the difference, with pros and cons of each, before making a purchase. And you REALLY do not want a scope with mismatched turret/reticle.

To me, an important question is, will you use this scope/rifle more for hunting, or more for PRS-type shooting where using the "Chirstmas tree" reticle for ranging and holdover at varying magnification? In my opinion, if hunting is the primary use for the next year or three, you might want to consider a SFP scope with a lighted reticle.

If the priority is long-range precision, you'll want a first focal plane (FFP) scope; in Vortex Vipers, that adds $100. It's worth it for PRS-type disciplines

If you go with Vortex, I agree with what @patriot07 said above - the Gen-2 Viper PST is superior to what you list, but it is at the top of your price range used or on sale.

Now, if hunting is secondary and/or you are not truly insistent on MOA, the Athlon Midas TAC is a great value (third time tonight I've written this) and fits your budget.

If you're going to hunt with it, the 4-16x variant is probably better than the 6-24. The issue with FFP for hunting is that, at lower magnification, the reticle shrinks... and since the Midas TAC doesn't have a lighted reticle, that could get challenging in low-light conditions. For hunting, some prefer a second focal plane (SFP) scope because the reticle does not change size with magnification change.

Personal experience: I bought a Vortex Viper PST Gen-2 3-15x44 SFP with MOA reticle to use on a .22. Long story short, I made some assumptions about how I would use the scope which turned out to be in error. The scope is great - but it turns out I needed FFP more than I thought I would (I have decades of experience with MOA so that's what I use, despite prevalence of milrad in PRS). Since it's SFP and MOA, no one shooting PRS/NRL will want it, so it will probably end up being a spare until I practically give it away. I won't buy any more SFP scopes - but I also don't hunt anymore, so I don't need an optic optimized for that.

Finally: Beware of people who say a brand/model, turret, etc "sucks" because they personally don't like it. Different people like different things. Do your investigation into reputable brands, ask questions, consider responses, and buy what YOU like - not what somebody else SAYS you should like. Just be ware that some compromises you might make may decrease future resale - I know resale on my Vortex Razors, for example will be hurt by being MOA - I made my choice well aware of that. On the other hand, it's important to note that limitations of low-priced scopes (like 5-mil/10MOA per revolution turrets, no zero stop, etc) really ARE detrimental and often really DO suck in applications where changes are made often,

 

[Captain Teeto]

if you have a gun store nearby, they might let you demo the scopes. mine did and it was super helpful because i was in a similar situation

 

[beetroot]

"and the knobs, while functional, suck. "
I know some people don't like the shims for a zero stop. But what else "sucks" about them?

"I just really hate the pst and hst scopes. "
Could you elaborate on why?

I wouldn't say the Gen 1 PST and HST suck, but there are definitely better options available now.
I have a HST 4-16x44 which I don't like and will be replacing soon.

I find the turrets are fine, nice audible clicks and whilst the zero stop shims are a tad annoying they're certainly not a deal breaker in my opinion.
They are relatively light weight, especially compared to the Gen 2 PST and they offer decent reticle options, the let down for me is in the glass.

I find they have very tight eye boxes, not the best clarity/resolution and very poor contrast.
When the PST first came out it was an absolute game changer and forced a lot of change in lower priced Tactical scopes, but it's showing it's age now and there are far better options for the price, which is why the Gen 2 PST has been produced.

 

[captainemil]

Every year somthing new comes out

 

[HenrikOlsen]

@Ydasianea First decide on FFP or SFP reticle if you haven't. Then decide if 3/4x is low enough for your hunting style. I have two PST Gen1 4-16 and one PST Gen2 5-25. If possible go for the Gen2, due to the newer and smoother turrets +zero stop. Stay away from the HS-T, from the PRS/LR shooters I know over here I rarely hear good reviews. If you are conscious when it comes to weight, check on this as well.

 

[Gknight8845]

For what it’s worth a similar comparison to the pst gen II is the Zeiss V4. I’m looking at both right now trying to get opinions on each but having little luck. Don’t know if the v4 is just too new or what.

 

[fdkay]

I will soon be purchasing myself a little gift for making it through another year of college and my rifle is in need of a new scope. The rifle is a custom 30-06 and will be used for hunting and my intro rifle to long range precision shooting.
I have narrowed my search down to the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 https://tacticsfaq.com/vortex-hst-vs-pst/ with the MOA reticle or the Vortex Viper HS-T 4-16x44 with the MOA reticle.
I am also considering the same HS-T but in a 6-24x50. Is 6 power too much magnification for closer quick shots?
My preference is with the HS-T but I don't like the reticle being MOA and the adjustments being MRAD. Would this be an issue or not anything to worry about?
I want to stick with an MOA reticle and keep my price in the 500 to 700 dollar range.
Any advice on other scopes that fit this bill or advice on the Reticle/Adjustment difference would be appreciated.

Why are you stuck on MOA?
Usually, folks who say this, just don't understand mil, there is NOTHING wrong with MOA, but it is not "easier" than mil.
keep this in mind:
Most of the folks here are devotees of FFP scopes, (I am one) there are most definitely advantages with it on unknown distance shooting.
That being said, there is NOTHING wrong with a SFP scope and choosing one would allow you to have better glass or options in the same price bracket.
For hunting, if you aren't running top tier glass, illumination is a must for a FFP scope. That adds cost.
Just be very aware that with a second focal plane scope, if you have a ranging reticle, it is only accurate on one power, normally the highest setting (though not always).
A FFP scope is accurate at all powers but the reticle grows and shrinks to maintain the subtensions.

This scope will give you very good quality, with very good glass, a well earned reputation for tracking and repeatability.
The reticle is a bit on the fine side, it is a SFP scope,
https://www.swfa.com/sightron-3-16x42-s-tac-30mm-riflescope-3.html

 

[Captain Teeto]

gander outdoors is having a sale on the PST gen 2's right now i think. i got the MOA version of 5-25 PST GEN II for $800 (incl. tax/shipping)

 

[platas]

The knobs are super stiff and heavy, on my used-to-be 6-24 pst and my cousins 6-24 hst you have to really grab onto them. If they were wider then that level of tension would be more spread out and feel better but they are tall and skinny so it takes more force than I like. That plus the knurled finish makes them uncomfortable in my hands.

Only 5 mils per revolution too. That limited adjustment per rotation means you’re dialing multiple revolutions to get way out there which makes the lack of internal zero stop even more of a hassle having to remember where you’re at once you get off the rifle and shoot another stage/target. I don’t like the narrow slit window that the elevation indicator is in, though I guess it helps assuage complaints with the lines not lining up perfect. The lines lining up perfect doesn’t bother me much, it’s just what they did to try and mask it I guess that rubs me wrong.

The “zero stop” shims suck, mine were little half moons with detents that never really stacked right and made install a pain.

Don’t go over 20x otherwise it gets dark and it’s not very sharp. I’ve heard the 4-16 prescription is better but I’m skeptical that it’s not just wider and the issues aren’t as pronounced.

My 3-10 weaver tac Natchez 200 buck special I got just to have a backup on the shelf is much more pleasant to shoot that the first gen pst, missing all the same features but it’s also wayyyy cheaper.

I am pretty impressed with the gen2 pst, it fixes all of the first gens shortcomings. I just don’t think the first gen is worth what they charge for it. My 4.5-27 Midas btr was 250 via cameraland and that’s the price I think the first gen pst demands.

I second a lot of what you said. I'm sending my vortex HST back for them to inspect the glass as the clarity is far below my buddy's PST gen 2. Also, when I was shooting 308 Win cranking the elevation knob 2.5 times to get from 100 to 1000 yds made it harder on PRS stages with a lot of multiple distance targets. 8.2 mils for 6.5 creedmore isn't as bad but a wider turret would be nicer. On the plus side it tracks 100% on the snipers hide tall target testing base and always holds a good zero. I'll look to upgrade to a PST gen2 or razor at some point.