And I bet all those Kali Libtard Legislators were just SURE the Ganja Gambit was gonna be a Gold Mine.
F-'em.
Greg
F-'em.
Greg
War on Drugs Redux- Big Mistake
- Thread starter ArmyJerry
- Start date
Mag we are going to depart on this opinion.
My Dad didn't choose his parkinsons, a disease.
I've yet to encounter someone with an addiction that hadn't tried the substance once or many times.
Actions have consequences, some more than we'd like.
The word disease has been hijacked.
R
The "elephant in the room" that they don't talk about is that while it is "Legal" in California, it is still very much Illegal under federal law, so you can't have actual proper big corporations with proper government controls get involved with fully legit normal banking streams and such (like Alcohol is currently controlled by).
So the "market" is run by the shady types, who are willing to live with the possibility that the Feds come in tomorrow and grab everything & send you to jail, as well as dealing mostly in cash since you are still of out of the banking system.
Then they wonder why things are going a bit sideways...
Somehow I think all the California congress critters wouldn't feel the same way about guns as they do about pot, if the Texas legislature said to hell with the Federal rules, you can all make as many machine guns and silencers as you want, just pretty please send us $200 in cash for each one you make. I bet it wouldn't take a week before the democrats were pounding their podiums demanding that the Federal Government force states to abide by the superseding Federal Laws.
Nor would they be quite so happy if Texas decided they were an "Anti-Sanctuary" for people from California and refused to allow anybody from California or Mexico to visit (in violation of the federal & constitutional rules on interstate travel & citizenship).
FYI PMC, it took me nearly a decade to fight off two bouts with lymphoma during most of the 90's, Hodgkins and Non-Hodgkins both. For the record, I never once got into the weed, and while it wasn't fun, I do just fine these days.
Yours is a specious argument, that weed is the real answer to anything related to cancer. Weed can't do a damned thing for cancer that legal drugs can do just as well or better; I know, I went through both radiation and harsh chemo.
Next time, pick your targets with more care, but don't pick me, I won't be reading it. You're now ignored permanently.
Greg
You misunderstood my message. Check your fire.
I find it offensive that people will equate a "choice" like drug use that we all know can lead to addiction with an outcome no one would choose "cancer" and put them on the same moral equivalency.
Fuck the resources that get spent on someone that made a bad "choice" spend those resources on some poor bastard that through no fault of their own came down with a real disease.
Woops just noticed Greg put me on ignore permanently.
Never had that happen before.
Strange I thought I was supposed to feel a disturbance in the force like millions of voices calling out than suddenly silenced........
another myth busted.
Never had that happen before.
Strange I thought I was supposed to feel a disturbance in the force like millions of voices calling out than suddenly silenced........
another myth busted.
Ive been around this block with him before. He'sangry and not able to understand the poblem beyond his opinion; that syndrome is largely true of the populace. Unfortunately Greg, like someone else here, seems to need a whipping boy.
I expect he'd be a good one to have at your back in a firefight.
R, I understand your position. From what Ive seen, some personalities are addictive toward certain things, and its only marginally,if that, what we would call 'choice'.
Ive studied a LOT of psychology, philosophy, religion, and some related subjects. My observations lead me to believe that the pyche of a person can be so scarred, in so much pain, that they make poor, even destructive, choices, out of a disease of the mind. Pychoemotional trauma can weaken the centers of intent, will, and choice.
Take for instance a woman I know. She met a guy and on their wedding night as soon as he touched her she froze. Every time he tried to be intimate she would push him away. she was crazy about him but couldnt stand for him to touch her. It wasnt really a choice..she became ill. I took years of therapy for her to get to the point of remembering that her grandfather had molested her when she was a baby. Once she remembered it she could let it go. She had what you would call an 'emotional disease'. Rortunately she had a support system...many who dont end up on alcohol, drugs, or eating them selves to obese. Its only marginally a choice.
And some just make bad coices because they dont know any better.
Dont get me wrong, Im not soft on stupid, but i see its not always an absolute black and white situation.
It isn't a disease in the sense of cancer or parkinson's. Those are organic and quite different. You may be a victim but you may have done little wrong to deserve the disease you get.
Addiction is a behavioral disorder pure and simple. Not to come off like a know it all as I am not but I have seen and LIVED this with friends and family more than I would care to remember. Addictive behavior is the opposite of maturity in action: developing higher-level and more abstract principles to enhance decision making in a wider range of contexts. People with addictions never matured beyond a child-like decision making process. I feel good so it is good...there is no negative. It is a purely cause and effect relationship. A child who eats too much of a favorite food and then suffers with a stomach ache for a while remembers both the good and bad. It tempers their decision the next time it occurs. There is the good and bad and sometimes the bad leaves its mark and teaches a child better decisions.
Unfortunately, opiates are incredibly powerful. Even the memory of a bad trip cannot dissuade you to stop because the high is so good and the memory of the bad pales in comparison. The power of opiates is too strong for 99% to overcome. That is why Mr. Langelius is correct. The pushers are a huge issue. Addiction follows the same pattern of psychosis whether it is drugs, gambling, smoking or sex. The common denominator is the pusher who preys on the misfortune of these people and should receive the harshest of penalties.
Unfortunately, this disease, addiction to hard core drugs, has been seen to cause more unrelated crimes and cause more non disease related issues than any other recognized "disease".
1. Burglary of residences, businesses, and vehicles.
2. Theft of property, all types.
3. Robbery.
4. Assaults to include murder.
5. Child neglect and abuse, to include child prostitution, and child death.
6. A host of other violations that cost taxpayer dollars like no other disease ever has.
Mental illness in several forms come close 2nd causing crimes listed above.
Alcoholism never reached the criminal levels drug addiction or mental illness has.
Cancer and those diseases cause what criminal behaviour ??
And people want to excuse drug addiction as a disease when it rides a crime wave. A select group of citizens will never accept the disease excuse . And the two sides will never compromise.
It is neither a disease nor a mental illness. Alcohol is not heroin by any stretch of the imagination
Ive seen people try alcohol and say "Nah, not for me wont drink ever again"
Than some people taste that alcohol and it immediately grabs them and takes hold.
The second person is the rarer. More people will not drink or drink in a controlled manner.
Have you ever heard of someone trying heroin and than not ever doing it again?
Alcohol may take over someone predisposed to addictive behaviors mentally.
Heroin can take someone with no predisposition and make them a mess in one go, all though it can be argued their addictive behaviors got them in steps to the point of heroin.
I dont think heroin is step one in the chain.
Still the conscious decision is made to use in the first place.
I'm very familiar with addiction.
Had a nicotine one for 25 years.
Had an alcohol one for 20.
Neither happened as a hereditary or exposure circumstance.
I chose the first cigarette as well as the first drink and the ones that followed.
I cannot/will not compare those with the diseases I've watched my family members suffer and die from.
R
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We already have laws to deal with these issues, hell we have a whole department to deal with prescription drugs, its called the FDA, have the do their fucking jobs without declaring another stupid war. Use the power you have now. Stop volunteering to become a slave to the statistics, and stop asking for it, you are endangering us all and our Constitution one little peice at a time. Just stop
My point is it isn't conscious. It is an escape from a world that offered little hope.
Comparing heroin to nicotine or alcohol is ridiculous. Neither are as powerful in the intensity of the high and neither offers the escape of heroin and that is what these people crave...escape. I've worked with many of these people and never have I met one that didn't have a history of abuse that led them there. No one that is well adjusted suddenly decides to shoot heroin. It is a series of steps down the wrong path because of their past.
I don't really expect you guys to understand it. I've lived it and have volunteered to help them due to my experience of seeing what it did to friends and family. It is easy to categorize the users as losers...but that is not my experience.
That is why I am so opposed to these free clinics, etc. Perpetuating the problem via "legal" methods like methadone is the worst treatment I know of. Does nothing and never will. Pushers are vermin that should be destroyed at all costs.
Up to your last sentence I agree wholeheartedly. But under 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness'" I say legalize it all. that will by default put the pusher our of business. But if a person wants to do this stupid shit it their funeral and their right to it just as much as one who wants to smoke cigarettes or drink booze. Anything else is a miscarriage of justice.
Maggot,
I agree with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, however, a child does not have these rights as they do not possess the maturity in their decision making. Neither do these people. I have no siblings but a number of 1st cousins. My 2nd oldest one was like a brother. Born a week apart. We grew up together, played hockey, etc. He went down the wrong road. He was not the sharpest tool in the shed and was still making decisions like a child. He died on a street in Boston during the winter because he escaped from a "treatment" center and got a fix that was loaded with something besides Heroin. He was 31 years old.
His life, liberty and pursuit of happiness was at my expense and his family's and his wife's and his friends'. If I knew the pusher, I guarantee he would be wearing his tongue like a necktie. These people kill thousands...they should be hanged after conviction. They are worse than serial killers or pedophiles IMHO. They will prey on anyone - man, woman or child. I don't want to see it happen to anyone else hence my volunteering.
First, we're takling (somewhat) responsible adults, not children.
If it were legal your cuz could have gotten something that wasnt poison. Thats my point. Its his right to get high, and should be able to do that w/o risking his life. Just like legal booze, legal cigarettes, etc.
Im not encouraging that behavior, just defending the right to do it.
Just throwing this out there, but there are also those who didn't 'chose' to start oxy and the like. There are folks who woke up in the hospital a WEEK later who'd been in an accident (of another's making/fault) and had their life completely changed. To have casts and braces on all your extremities except your left arm, and on IV medication NOT of your choosing, is involuntary. After being weened off the IV and onto oral meds, whilst living in the hospital for months waiting for your pelvis to mend back together as well, those pain meds actually ARE working. And you're confused at the fact that you haven't been (the typical) stoned once yet.
This is because the medications actually are working on what is ailing you. All through the day. And weeks. And months.
There's a difference between "addicted" and "dependent" when it comes to this stuff.
Get out of the hospital, and simply choose to not get that script filled. Say to yourself: I'm glad I don't need to take these pills every 2 hours anymore.
I now know what all the 'heroin junkies' and whatnot go through. Worst 3 day period of my life. Simply laying on the floor not able to move. Middle of the afternoon on the 3rd day, I was trying to clean up, and getting things ready for laundry. Going through pants pockets, and found 1 single pill in a container that I'd forgotten about. One of my "go meds" for when out on excursions. I took that, just out of desperation and hope that it'll help my ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING hurting.
20 mins later I was straightened right out. My old self again. Damn. Now I learned what "addiction" was about, and the "dependency" thing.
So now, over a decade later, I continue to not do that stuff, and avoid at all costs anything that has 'oxy' in it. Have had a few more bouts of issues requiring immediate hospitalization, but always say NO when asked "do you want...."
I'll take the T3's instead. Kidney stones were a bit of a different story, and I had a different med. But I never want to go through that "dependency" thing again. Those months in the hospital affect a person in ways they don't even know.
This is because the medications actually are working on what is ailing you. All through the day. And weeks. And months.
There's a difference between "addicted" and "dependent" when it comes to this stuff.
Get out of the hospital, and simply choose to not get that script filled. Say to yourself: I'm glad I don't need to take these pills every 2 hours anymore.
I now know what all the 'heroin junkies' and whatnot go through. Worst 3 day period of my life. Simply laying on the floor not able to move. Middle of the afternoon on the 3rd day, I was trying to clean up, and getting things ready for laundry. Going through pants pockets, and found 1 single pill in a container that I'd forgotten about. One of my "go meds" for when out on excursions. I took that, just out of desperation and hope that it'll help my ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING hurting.
20 mins later I was straightened right out. My old self again. Damn. Now I learned what "addiction" was about, and the "dependency" thing.
So now, over a decade later, I continue to not do that stuff, and avoid at all costs anything that has 'oxy' in it. Have had a few more bouts of issues requiring immediate hospitalization, but always say NO when asked "do you want...."
I'll take the T3's instead. Kidney stones were a bit of a different story, and I had a different med. But I never want to go through that "dependency" thing again. Those months in the hospital affect a person in ways they don't even know.
Yeah, Ive seen that. I think its just a matter of allowing time to sort it out. Its only been legal for a few months.
I understand your position. However, no good can come from legalizing these type of drugs. Pot, booze, etc. are one thing. Heroin and those class of drugs have no purpose other than misery. I think the money could be better spent teaching addicts the reasons why they become addicted. This will break the cycle of addiction versus perpetuating it.
I know 4 or 5 different people with about the same story. One college grad, state champion wrestler, father. Died with needle in his arm on the side of the highway. Couldn't make it a mile from dropping the kid off at the grandparents, had to pull over and shoot up.
The opioid epidemic needs crushed. It is a major source of crime. Not just the drugs, what people do to get the money to get the drugs. This isn't weed or booze, you can look at an opioid user and tell what they are from across the room. Heroin zombies are not discreet. They will eat their best friends brains to get their fix.
I would agree with treatment over jail/prison but I stick to my position on it being a matter of personal freedom.
Different pdople handle things differently. Ive been prescribed narcotics for pain several time and have NO problem with them. Use them when I need them and put them away.
On the other hand I was miserably addicted to cigarettes (likely born addicted because of parental use amd heavy use while I was youung) and went through a living hell getting free from them. If you laid a thousand $$$ on the table I wouldnt touch a cigarette.
I battle the nicotine addiction every freaking day. Some days I win and some I don't. I need to permanently stop it.
A little over twenty years ago I had a very bad accident. I had lots of broken bones & enough blood loss that the doctors all agreed there’s no way I should’ve lived.
I woke up a day & a half later to a morphine drip & three of my friends were in the room. My mom & wife asked how they knew I was there? Apparently, I called my buddies & asked them to bring me a couple cans of Copenhagen. No shit. I still don’t remember calling them. Apparently I told them where I was, which room, etc.
I understand how a substance can become an addiction; I understand that I have the ability to become an addict. That is why I chose to NOT take pain meds when I left the hospital 7 days later.
STN nentioned a scenario that is truly fucked up. I commend him for having the mental strength to walk away from the poison. I just said “Fuck this shit. I’ll nip this before it becomes a problem.” The last thing I want or need in life is a drug addiction.
FWIW, I eventually quit Copenhagen “cold turkey” after almost 25 years. However, the vast majority of dopers have nobody to blame but themselves. If they’d made the decision not to partake in the first place those people would more than likely be better off for it.
How many people have y’all heard thank God for becoming a drug addict? A little bit of personal responsibility goes a long way.
I woke up a day & a half later to a morphine drip & three of my friends were in the room. My mom & wife asked how they knew I was there? Apparently, I called my buddies & asked them to bring me a couple cans of Copenhagen. No shit. I still don’t remember calling them. Apparently I told them where I was, which room, etc.
I understand how a substance can become an addiction; I understand that I have the ability to become an addict. That is why I chose to NOT take pain meds when I left the hospital 7 days later.
STN nentioned a scenario that is truly fucked up. I commend him for having the mental strength to walk away from the poison. I just said “Fuck this shit. I’ll nip this before it becomes a problem.” The last thing I want or need in life is a drug addiction.
FWIW, I eventually quit Copenhagen “cold turkey” after almost 25 years. However, the vast majority of dopers have nobody to blame but themselves. If they’d made the decision not to partake in the first place those people would more than likely be better off for it.
How many people have y’all heard thank God for becoming a drug addict? A little bit of personal responsibility goes a long way.
Pain management is an important part of healing.
Take a hip replacement for instance.
Try to come back from that, don't manage the pain, screw up your gait, next thing you know the other hip is fucked.
We are not reinventing the wheel.
Everything medicine should have learned about opioids should have been learned after the Civil War because we have been through this before when opioids were an over the counter medicine.
Take a hip replacement for instance.
Try to come back from that, don't manage the pain, screw up your gait, next thing you know the other hip is fucked.
We are not reinventing the wheel.
Everything medicine should have learned about opioids should have been learned after the Civil War because we have been through this before when opioids were an over the counter medicine.
During the Civil War you could grow poppies legally in yur back yard. When they were mature you would bleed them, save the juice, and congeal it into opium.
Toothache...a little ball of opium until you get it pulled.
Now nanny state and big pharma doesnt want yu to be able to take care of yorself, they want to sell yu crap that doesnt work as well to line their pockets.
Legalize it all. It's not our job to determine what people should put into their bodies. Oh, but what about the druggie that OD's? We have to spend money on them right? Dude, the military wastes more money in 10 seconds than it costs to take care of all the OD's.
The Tobacco suing & "health issue" was just one big money grab based on lawyers telling states how much money they could get for "free" if they let them spin a tale of woe... the states found out later on exactly how much those lawyers took and that was a bit of a sore spot. It was basically just a giant shakedown for more money to run the welfare state.
Sure some individual suits were filed and got the jury to give them some jackpot justice.... sure you do something you know is bad for you for 40 years.... yep it harms your health..... I deserve Millions....
Nobody in the past 60+ years could say with actual honesty that they thought smoking would be good for them.
Everybody that smoked in the past 60+ years would have to admit that they knew smoking was bad for you (then we get into semantics about how bad).
Even the old kids school books I had printed in the 60's showed... .smoke... get sick... eventually die early in the hospital.
From the first time Tobacco was brought to Europe from the new world, there were concerns about it being bad for your health.
The government at lots of levels made huge sums of money from the sale of Tobacco products & still does.
The lie about "paying for healthcare costs" was a load of BS as the taxes raked in greatly exceeded any "healthcare" expenses on the state and federal level.
End result... nothing changes except:
Lawyers got a huge payday
Governments at several levels got a bunch of money to waste in a bulk sum
Corporations collect extra taxes ongoing for the government to once again.
Smokers keep smoking, just now they have to spend more of their money for the same thing.
Then came e-cigarettes.... cutting out a bunch of the taxes and profits for others.... soon to be clamped down on hard.
Sure some individual suits were filed and got the jury to give them some jackpot justice.... sure you do something you know is bad for you for 40 years.... yep it harms your health..... I deserve Millions....
Nobody in the past 60+ years could say with actual honesty that they thought smoking would be good for them.
Everybody that smoked in the past 60+ years would have to admit that they knew smoking was bad for you (then we get into semantics about how bad).
Even the old kids school books I had printed in the 60's showed... .smoke... get sick... eventually die early in the hospital.
From the first time Tobacco was brought to Europe from the new world, there were concerns about it being bad for your health.
The government at lots of levels made huge sums of money from the sale of Tobacco products & still does.
The lie about "paying for healthcare costs" was a load of BS as the taxes raked in greatly exceeded any "healthcare" expenses on the state and federal level.
End result... nothing changes except:
Lawyers got a huge payday
Governments at several levels got a bunch of money to waste in a bulk sum
Corporations collect extra taxes ongoing for the government to once again.
Smokers keep smoking, just now they have to spend more of their money for the same thing.
Then came e-cigarettes.... cutting out a bunch of the taxes and profits for others.... soon to be clamped down on hard.
