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Weapon Safes

W

woogie_man

Sergeant
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Minuteman
Aug 22, 2010
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Fargo, ND
Have been putting this off for some time due to funds, and I know that is a piss poor excuse.

Have been looking around and was curious as to what you guys would suggest for a weapons safe. I have some small ones around the house....the brief case type. But these don't help with the firearms. I know I am wanting more than the basic sheet metal lockers that wouldn't take much to get into. With my kids getting older and them having friends over I am more worried about one of the friends getting into my shop and getting in trouble. My kids both know not to screw with dads rifles and to leave them alone if they see them. As well as getting either myself or my wife if one of their friends is screwing around.

I know I will have to see what the flooring is in the area I am planning on setting up the safe. But that brings up another question as well. I would think that putting the safe on a concrete floor would be the best option. But I would like to have the safe else where on your standard house flooring.

Rather than talking with the sales techs and getting that run around, figured I would ask here and see what you guys had for opinions.
 
I bought a Champion some 20 years or so ago and am very happy with it.

Champion Safe Co. | Top-rated gun safes for sale on wholesale prices | Fireproof safe deal

Are you looking for Gun Safes? Champion Safe Co. manufactures the highest grade gun safes, fire safes & home safes in the USA! Featuring 3 gun safe lines with fire rating options to choose from.
championsafe.com championsafe.com

Dial...screw the digital keypads.

I found them to be a good compromise of cost vs capability.

wrt to fire safety, please read what they say on their site. Fire protection is based on gypsum (or similar I guess) in the walls of the safe that give off moisture when heated...until they run out. Hence, fire ratings is show as minutes at a specific temp.

Hope this is somewhat helpful.
 
The best deal is going to be craigslist. Look for something that has an actual TL rating (TL-15, TL-30). Those are actual safes. Your average gun safe is not. They are really easy to break into. I just got a TL-30 safe for 1600 bucks. It is 2700 lbs and you aren’t getting into that sucker. Don’t really need to bolt it down either :)
 
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If you want cheaper and lighter, call Ironman Safe Co in Dalton Gardens, ID. Made in the USA by the guy who owns the place who is a friend of mine. They are better than your standard big box store safe. He will drop ship to you as well.
 
A safe will sit on its entire base, spreading the psi over many i's. Unlike your refrigerator that spreads the weight over 4 little feet. Your flooring and subflooring will be just fine. However, you might take a look at what the joist size and spacing is under that area and figure out if that system is rated for the new static load in addition to the normal live load.
Do try to find one that has a way to place a dehumidifier in. That was my mistake and it was a pain in the ass to get a hole drilled for a cord.
Plus one on the need to be bolted down.
 
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Almost nobody needs expensive, high-end safes. You need something big enough to store your guns and whatnot, has some heft to it, and is bolted down. Some level of fire protection would be good also. Any inexpensive big box store safe will do everything you need, which is to deter and slow down bad guys.

In a former life as a locksmith, I opened, repaired, and replaced many safes that thieves tried to enter. Almost every time, they inartfully smacked the dial and/or handle with a hammer or sledge hammer, broke them off, got frustrated, and left it for something they could easily take. In most instances, the thieves were under time pressure from an alarm sounding. When thieves are not under time pressure and have done any research whatsoever, they can get into even high-end safes with tools available at hardware stores.

In sum: Get an inexpensive safe, bolt it down, and a get loud security system.
 
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Sturdy Safe is another good option. Not big on frills but solid, well considered construction. If you are locating on sheathing/joist flooring, try to stay close to a subfloor beam, or bearing wall if on a second floor. Avoid locations centered between beams/bearing walls. If you are looking at something north of 1,500lbs loaded, a concrete sub-floor might be better, or check with your neighborhood structural engineer.
 
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Totally happy with my Canon not 8 million pounds but 640lbs empty was a bitch to move for me and my brother both of us 6'1" 220+. Unless you have like priceless things you wanna keep safe(get a safe deposit box) just get something affordable and big enough.
 
I second the Champion/Superior Safes. Good bang for the buck and mostly made in UT. As much as it hurts me there is a like 100 page sticky on ARFCOM by a safe engineer that’s worth reading.
 
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Impossible to give any advice with knowing what size you want, how many guns, what your budget is and where you are going to put it.

All factor in what you should be buying.

Anyone throwing out suggestions without this info is talking out their ass and should be ignored.
 
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Smittiac said:
Totally happy with my Canon not 8 million pounds but 640lbs empty was a bitch to move for me and my brother both of us 6'1" 220+. Unless you have like priceless things you wanna keep safe(get a safe deposit box) just get something affordable and big enough.
Click to expand...
Just so you know, by law the US Dept of Homeland Security can now require a officer to be present for you to be able to open your safe deposit box. Also, in an emergency, most banks won't make your box available to you. They will be closed.
 
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MK20 said:
Just so you know, by law the US Dept of Homeland Security can now require a officer to be present for you to be able to open your safe deposit box. Also, in an emergency, most banks won't make your box available to you. They will be closed.
Click to expand...
Uh, I didn't mean anything illegal.... I meant like things of really high value or family heirlooms.
 
CrabsandFootball said:
Impossible to give any advice with knowing what size you want, how many guns, what your budget is and where you are going to put it.

All factor in what you should be buying.

Anyone throwing out suggestions without this info is talking out their ass and should be ignored.
Click to expand...

As much as I would love one of the larger safes, as of right now I am not needing something that large. Thinking something no larger than some of the 30 gun size. Honestly something smaller would be filled up, but also want to make sure when more items are added to the household that I have room to store them.

Budget I don't want to spend a small fortune, but I also don't want to skimp on this and have it give a false sense of security as well.
 
Get a safe rate for at least twice as many guns as you think you will eventually own. A 30 gun safe will never hold 30 guns. Optics, magazines, and other accessories all take up a lot of space. An AR with an optic takes up 3 gun spaces. A bolt gun with optic takes 2. Add a magazine and there goes a third spot. I have 2 Fort Knox safes that I am very happy with. I had the interior custom configured on both. My first safe has a shelf in the bottom that the firearms sit on. Ammo or heavy items are stored underneath the shelf on the actual floor. A shelf on top holds pistols. The second safe is set up for my longer rifle and shotguns. The top shelf is cut out on the front to allow longer barrels to fit.
 
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As I own several, this is JMHO on some things to think about.

1. Once you decide on the size you think you will need, get a bigger one. You will be amazed at the stuff that will find its way into a safe. If you have a lot of bolt guns with optics, cut the stated storage size in half and that would give you a better idea about how much will fit.

2. While TL rated safes offer a higher level of theft protection, they are generally much smaller in interior space compared to other safe options and if you have a decent size collection, it will take several TL safes to hold them all. If you have long barreled rifles you may not find a TL that will work for you.

3. Select a location where the safe can be bolted down. While a 1,000 pound safe might seem like a lot, it won’t take much to move it out of the house.

4. Select a location that has a power outlet close to the safe. Many safes come with interior lighting, charging stations, and an optional heating rod.

5. Don’t just assume you need a heating rod/desiccant in the safe to control moisture. Ideally you want to maintain your safe at 70 degrees with 50 percent humidity so get a meter and measure what your safe is maintaining before you add items to adjust it.

6. The safe should be just one additional layer in your overall security plan. If you need to decide on high theft protection or high fire protection, go with fire protection. Having a home security sytem and a camera system will go a long way in limiting the smash and grab types and help reduce their time in your home. If you have done your OPSEC correctly, they should not even know you have a safe until they stumble upon it looking for something to take.

7. Lastly, the old argument about keypad versus dial. Each has their positive and negative attributes and both are about the same as far as reliability goes. Get whatever you prefer.

Good luck with your selection and as long as you go with a good brand that makes a quality product you should be OK for the most part. On a side note, if your home does burn completely down, your safe and its contents will most likely not survive no matter what safe you have. There are several ways to improve the safe once you get it in the spot you want but that is for another discussion.
 
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Get a mechanical safe (i.e., one with a rotary combination lock not the keypad). The keypads don't last and are easily, easily bypassed by someone that can figure out a basic circuit board. Sure a combo lock can be bypassed, but at least it doesn't require batteries and lasts more than a year!

Every time I go to look at a used keypad safe, I figure out they're selling it because the keypad doesn't work reliably or at all. Every single time.

I wish more combination lock + key safes were available. I would prefer to use a key, but if I lose the key still be able to get in with a combination. I can keep the combination in a secret place in case I forget it. It'll work 10-years later. The keypad won't... they're cheap junk.

If you need a safe you can get quick access to, use a different type for that gun/guns. I use a Hornady safe that looks like an alarm clock for my pistol near my bed. It is a keyed code, but isn't the cheapo Chinese junk keypad on most rifle safes and will hopefully last. I can still get in with a key or even an RFID tag if I so choose. For a long gun - like an AR - that you intend to use for defense and therefore need rapid access, get an underbed safe or do something crafty with your bed's headboard. Or, if you want it visible, install a wall mounted lock device.
 
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What I can't understand is why safe manufacturers continue to make "30 gun" safes that hold maybe 15 rifles (in usable form, with a scope) at best. That drives me fucking nuts. The internal design of most gun safes is for unscoped, mysteriously skinny, bolt handle-removed guns. Useless.
 
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I think concealing a safes location is more important than having a bad ass safe. It kills me when I see a lacquered safe with gold leaf lettering used as a centerpiece in someone's study or sitting in the garage for all to see with the door open.
 
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Start by reading everything here: https://gunsafereviewsguy.com/

Then, keep the following in mind:
  • With very very rare exception - Sturdy Safe, Ironman Safe Co, Zanotti Armor Safes - if it’s not UL RSC or TL, it doesn’t matter. Don’t confuse weight for security.
  • Unless it’s UL rated fire protection, assume it’s useless. Gypsum fire protection will rust your guns due to formaldehyde. Concrete fire protection with water-absorbent additives (like AmSec) works alright. The numbers on temperatures and times are usually optimistic at best and lies at worst.
  • Bolt it down. At minimum, bolt it to a wood platform that won’t allow it to fit through a doorway. 1/2” bolts minimum.
  • Make it 2x the “necessary” size.
  • For fuck’s sake don’t buy the cheap chinesium like the cannon from Costco. Good metal is expensive. If the safe is cheap, you ain’t paying for good metal.
  • Don’t get the electronic touchpad.
 
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I have a location picked out that will be easy to get to, but is also out of sight from any windows or living space. I agree with not broadcasting that you have a safe. That just scream ... " Hey over here.... Try and get in me "

I have a scheels here in my town I am going to take a look at their inventory as well.

With living up here in ND, the weather can go from -60 or so in the winter and well above 100 in the summer. So huge temp changes! I don't have a heated garage, so that is a no go out there. So the safe will have to fit through a standard sized interior door.

Would rather the dial style lock, as with my son knowing well more about computers and tech than I did at his age...... I would imagine that he would be able to get into the safe easily. Figure the "old fashioned" way would stump him a little and keep him out of it, if he ever were to try and get in the safe. Though again I trust him more than his friends.

Have been looking at a security system as well, but want to start with the safe. Figure they can take all the crap in the house that they want, but the important documents and things will be in the gun safe.


I am hoping the rifles will reproduce and get more rifles. Hoping some of them will mature and grow into larger calibers as well ;) Does ammo do the same thing? I hope so at least!
 
You could put the safe in the garage and put a heating rod in it. I really prefer to have the safe on a concrete floor just for ease of access and if you ever decide to move you will thank me.
 
gnochi said:
Start by reading everything here: https://gunsafereviewsguy.com/

Then, keep the following in mind:
  • With very very rare exception - Sturdy Safe, Ironman Safe Co, Zanotti Armor Safes - if it’s not UL RSC or TL, it doesn’t matter. Don’t confuse weight for security.
  • Unless it’s UL rated fire protection, assume it’s useless. Gypsum fire protection will rust your guns due to formaldehyde. Concrete fire protection with water-absorbent additives (like AmSec) works alright. The numbers on temperatures and times are usually optimistic at best and lies at worst.
  • Bolt it down. At minimum, bolt it to a wood platform that won’t allow it to fit through a doorway. 1/2” bolts minimum.
  • Make it 2x the “necessary” size.
  • For fuck’s sake don’t buy the cheap chinesium like the cannon from Costco. Good metal is expensive. If the safe is cheap, you ain’t paying for good metal.
  • Don’t get the electronic touchpad.
Click to expand...
Reading through now, just got done with the pry attack page. Holy cow! I can't thank you enough for the link, this should be something everyone should read. Lots of good information and details.
 
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gnochi said:
Start by reading everything here: https://gunsafereviewsguy.com/

Then, keep the following in mind:
  • With very very rare exception - Sturdy Safe, Ironman Safe Co, Zanotti Armor Safes - if it’s not UL RSC or TL, it doesn’t matter. Don’t confuse weight for security.
  • Unless it’s UL rated fire protection, assume it’s useless. Gypsum fire protection will rust your guns due to formaldehyde. Concrete fire protection with water-absorbent additives (like AmSec) works alright. The numbers on temperatures and times are usually optimistic at best and lies at worst.
  • Bolt it down. At minimum, bolt it to a wood platform that won’t allow it to fit through a doorway. 1/2” bolts minimum.
  • Make it 2x the “necessary” size.
  • For fuck’s sake don’t buy the cheap chinesium like the cannon from Costco. Good metal is expensive. If the safe is cheap, you ain’t paying for good metal.
  • Don’t get the electronic touchpad.
Click to expand...
Good steel is that like schott glass? If pros come after your safe they will get in. Just check on YouTube if you don't believe it. Plenty of videos of guys getting into safes in a matter of minutes. The Chinese safe will keep the average low life burglars out just as well as an expensive safe . And what's with the keypad hate? My cheap chinese canon from costco has one and it's never failed.
 
Im2bent said:
Good steel is that like schott glass? If pros come after your safe they will get in. Just check on YouTube if you don't believe it. Plenty of videos of guys getting into safes in a matter of minutes. The Chinese safe will keep the average low life burglars out just as well as an expensive safe . And what's with the keypad hate? My cheap chinese canon from costco has one and it's never failed.
Click to expand...
If you shoot a bullet at 1/32 inch of generic pot steel, it’ll go right through. If you shoot a bullet at half an inch of AR500, it’ll splash off. Grade and thickness matter, and grade and thickness are expensive.

Yes, with anything shy of a B-rate safe, power tools will get through in minutes at most. If it’s a cheap safe with thin sheet metal, even with concrete between the layers, it’s going to take a few seconds with a crowbar, vs the 30 minutes from someone who knows what they’re doing with a crowbar for a TL-30.

It absolutely matters how thick of what material is put together how, for how much of a hassle it is for someone to get in. Whether it’s worth it or not for your application is a different question, but there is absolutely a difference.

That cheap keypad has an expected life of a couple hundred thousand cycles in perfect conditions with the specified lubrication and humidity control. Hopefully yours stays working and you don’t need a locksmith to come out and break into the safe so you need to replace it and the door. That’s happened to several people I know after 10-15 years, and one unlucky person after ~2 years.
 
Something else to think about is that safe manufacturers are really only considering lever action rifles and shotguns into their estimates of capacity. If you have scoped rifles, rifles with bolt knobs sticking out the side, or pretty much anything wider than a pump action shotgun (even a side by side will fuck with the geometry), the actual capacity will be substantially lower than the listed capacity. Beyond the recommendation of “get one 2x larger than you think you may need some time in the future,” know that the 30 gun safe from the big box store probably won’t hold more than 15 to 20 comfortably.
 
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The vast majority of thieves don’t have day jobs as underwriter’s lab testers. And, most people only need a storage locker secure enough to keep honest and the curious at bay. Even most determined thieves will be limited to the tools in your garage and by the response time of the local law enforcement. It is only the very few that need to guard their valuables from Marky Mark, George Clooney, and Brad Pitt...

That said, understand your own needs and the threats in your area and buy accordingly...
 
Anyone ever reinforce a closet in their home and turn it into gun storage? If even a $2000 safe is still minimal protection against burglary and fire why not invest that money into fortifying a closet or small room? Pro’s cons?
 
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Layered protection is what you need to consider. Living an urban housing plan / neighborhood with home security system in place let’s you choose a different style of safe than someone living in a rural environment with no security alarm / fast responding law enforcement

I had a local structural engineer examine the TJI floor joists in my house and give me their recommendation on load bearing and deflection and choose accordingly.

if you live in a neighborhood, have a security system, and good response times for law enforcement then you don’t really need a TL rated safe. I personally like the AMSEC safes. Their combination of metal thickness, fill material, and bolt / hinge design offers plenty of fire and theft protection

just about any gun safe can be broke open with a cordless grinder and pry bars. Some will take a lot longer to do. And by that time the security system should be going off with the police on their way....and my 130lb cane corso chewing someone’s nuts off
 
I have a Frontier gun safe for sale. UL rated, 900 lbs. S&G mechanical lock. Rated at 44 gun (realistically 25 plus a few pistols. $900. Located in Des Moines, IA. I know it's a slim chance given your location but maybe you travel some or know someone traveling this way. PM me if interested.
 
Now, bolt it to the floor up against a wall and see how long it takes these two guys to get in the safe with no leverage.
 
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I have an Old Glory Gun Safe , I am very happy with it. I paid additional 300 to have it delivered and placed in my house, the delivery guys did a great job and did not damage my wood floors when the brought it in.
 
Are you ever planning to move? Ever? It can cost as much to move a safe as the safe cost new. Check CraigsList or the equivalent depending on where you live and you will find lots of safes for FREE as long as you are willing and most importantly able to move them. Big safes weigh a metric fuck ton. My recommendation is to go modular (breakdown); this way if you ever do decide to move you can actually take the safe with you as opposed to paying a fortune to have one moved or leaving it for the next home owner (assuming they want it) and buying the same safe all over again. Check out Zanotti, for breakdown safes they are the best in my opinion (no affiliation).


Modular Gun Safes that breakdown for easy moving | Zanotti Armor the Innovator in Gun Safes
 
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There's a difference between Residential Security Containers and a safe. RSCs my stop a smash and grab thief, but they'll never stop someone that knows what they are after in advance. I watched some tweakers attack a TL-30 safe out in a field near here for a couple days with a 14" demo saw. I am not sure if they ever got into it, before they caught a field on fire... It would take maybe a minute to get a hole in a 12ga steel side of a RSC large enough to pull rifles out of with a demo saw.
Smash and grab thief deterrent aside, fire protection is a big deal.
I have driven through the aftermath of many of the towns burned in the California wildfires over the last few years. Sure, a "safe" manufacturer may cherry pick a single RSC that's contents sorta/kinda survived, and use it as advertisement, but I can promise most of the RSCs did not.
If you are serious about protecting your valuables, you want a true UL-350 fire rating. Where I live, I wouldn't go less than a 2 hour UL-350 if I cared what was inside.
A RSC is fine if you want to keep kids out or the random smash and grab thief, but if you want to honestly protect valuables, I'd look at getting a real TL/UL fire safe.
 
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Gun safes are crap and can be easily cut. Real safes are too small or too expensive You are better off creating a room with a hidden door. No one will steal what they can't find
 
Hairball said:
Now, bolt it to the floor up against a wall and see how long it takes these two guys to get in the safe with no leverage.
Click to expand...
Exactly which is mine are against a wall and bolted to the slab.
 
All they need to cut into the side of a gunsafe is a $20 angle grinder
 
Thanks for the info guys.

I am not planning on moving, but who knows to be honest.

The wife is ok with the safe, as long as it doesn't end up costing more than our vehicles. I do like the idea of making a "gun room" with a secure door or a built up closet. Have been looking into different security systems as well. My main thought at this point is to keep things out of the hands of people that shouldn't have their hands on my things. Fire protection would be nice, but honestly the rifles can be replaced if needed. We have other places that our documents and what not are held, that are fire proof.

I have a location picked out for a safe, and it would be really hard to get any type of pry bar into the area for any kind of leverage. That and the fact that we have multiple LEO's in my neighborhood is an added bonus. I know the response time in my neighborhood is fairly fast, so anyone grabbing wouldn't have a ton of time to waste trying to pry anything open ( at least I would think anyway )
 
I have purchased 2 Liberty e-lock safes from Cabelas. Both times waited for them to be on sale, used rewards points, and got a healthy discount due to a minor blemish. You just need to be patient and assertive with the safe sales person. Deals can be had. No problem with the e-locks so far. One safe had a pass through electrical cord one not. Having power inside the safe is a big plus in my opinion. As already mentioned, a 30 gun safe holds 15 long guns at best. You will also want some shelving for misc items. Placing on concrete is ideal but putting a safe on on a joist/subfloor is ok if constructed properly. Anchor the safe in some fashion, keep it out of sight, don’t brag about your gun collection, know your neighbors, and all that common sense stuff. In the end keep your fingers crossed or get firearm insurance.
 
I’m very happy with my Superior “Supreme” safe. Not cheap, but they don’t skimp on the steel.

Superior Safe

Strongest, Most Secure Gun, Home and Fire Safes
superiorgunsafes.com superiorgunsafes.com
 
Animal357 said:
All they need to cut into the side of a gunsafe is a $20 angle grinder
Click to expand...
This is true, but they will probably have a $100 angle grinder. Your safe is your last line of defense. Exterior lights, cameras/alerts on battery backup, noisy-ass (deafening) alarm, good doors/locks, interior obfuscation (maybe a cheap dummy RSC) and a safe that takes time to find and is hard to manipulate Into cutting position. The more time you add to the equation, the more you affect the outcome. Regarding fires, if you are in an area affected by wildfires like we’ve seen over the past few years, there is no affordable safe that will protect your contents; you need a load-up/evac plan instead.
 
Don't know how much safes will be used in the future with our new Chicom government; pistols on hips, rifles leaning next to the door in every room, shotguns by the bedside; not to mention what's gonna be in cars; what's left in the safe?
 
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