After 3 decades of reloading and shooting, I have found myself more focused on accuracy to the point that I often ask myself, "Can the accuracy improve any more?". When I started loading, I loaded for hunting purposes only. Today I continue to load for hunting but primarily shoot steel and paper the majority of the year. Accuracy is addicting to say the least. My question posed to you, at what point do you reach the point you are satisfied with your accuracy? Do we ever reach a point where we are satisfied? If you are like myself, always looking for improvement, we set goals but when those goals are met, we raise the bar. Yes, with new equipment, components, and technology constantly improving, at what point, if ever, do you just say you're satisfied and shoot? Or do you personally continue to reach for improvement. For instance, you build an AR and your goal is 1/2 moa. Let's say you reach that goal but you still wonder if it will do 0.4 moa consistently. Would you personally be satisfied with your original goal? I understand everyone has a different idea/goal/purpose for accuracy and performance and every gun has a different opportunity for accuracy but what are your individual summations?
What are your personal accuracy goals?
- Thread starter 10ring1
- Start date
I want a 10 shot group that has them all touching, i.e. the center of the group is hollow with no paper hanging in it. If I don't have a new rifle to toy with I will continue to push trying to refine it to a single hole (eventually right ) but at a certain point with the chosen components you don't get any smaller so I figure I've wrung all I could out of the system. If I get a new rifle I'll ditch the load testing for the old and stick with my proven load in it and start toying with the new. The only rifle I didn't push for absolute accuracy is my subsonic night rifle. I had three shots touching at 100 two weekends in a row and though I doubt I thoroughly vetted the load so it's better than the thermals resolution and thus pixels as good as I could ever shoot it lol
I enjoy the tinkering and seeing the results of that tinkering and it feeds my reloading addiction so I don't care if some people are happy with their load they find in one shooting session and think it's the end of the world to do anymore because that's not really what am after with my time.
I enjoy the tinkering and seeing the results of that tinkering and it feeds my reloading addiction so I don't care if some people are happy with their load they find in one shooting session and think it's the end of the world to do anymore because that's not really what am after with my time.
I have reached a point where I don't really care if it could be better. I have tried in the past sorting brass, primers, and projectiles by weight and dimensions. I have tried neck turning, I have tried neck sizing only, I have annealed, and trimmed every firing, I've tried cleaning every firing, I've tried never cleaning. I've weighed charges so that I'm always on the "low" end of the 0.1 grain mark on the scale I'm using.
But if I set up a FL bushing die screwed down just enough to let the bolt close easy, and a bushing .002" under a loaded cartridge neck, and weigh a charge so the scale reads the number I want, and just do the usual 45 minute tumble cycle, and anneal every 3-5 firings, don't sort a fucking thing and plug & go without worry..... I still get about 1/2 MOA on average (sometimes better). My cases still last 10-20+ firings, and it takes a lot less of my day to get 'er done.
Why? Because a rifle that shoots a 0.57" group at 100yd and a rifle that shoots a 0.2" group at 100yd are both going to miss by 10" at 800yd if I can't read the effective average wind velocity along the path of the trajectory to within 2-3 mph.
But if I set up a FL bushing die screwed down just enough to let the bolt close easy, and a bushing .002" under a loaded cartridge neck, and weigh a charge so the scale reads the number I want, and just do the usual 45 minute tumble cycle, and anneal every 3-5 firings, don't sort a fucking thing and plug & go without worry..... I still get about 1/2 MOA on average (sometimes better). My cases still last 10-20+ firings, and it takes a lot less of my day to get 'er done.
Why? Because a rifle that shoots a 0.57" group at 100yd and a rifle that shoots a 0.2" group at 100yd are both going to miss by 10" at 800yd if I can't read the effective average wind velocity along the path of the trajectory to within 2-3 mph.
My shooting goals are dictated by two things: purpose and budget. Purpose - type of target or discipline I'll be shooting. Budget - this equates to not only money but TIME. How much time do I want to invest in getting that little bit extra you speak of that may, or may not, make a difference in the end result for my purpose. Shooting at steel is different than shooting paper for score.
I primarily shoot steel. I DO NOT; weight or measure bullets, weight or measure case volume on brass, turn necks, use an arbor press to measure neck tension when bullet seating, check concentricity of cases or rounds, etc.. I do a little more than the basics in that I anneal my brass after every firing and trim when needed. Other than that, I clean, size, prime, load powder and seat the bullet. I do pay attention to shoulder bump and seating depth but I don't measure each and every case. All of my ammunition has ESs under 15 (some are single digits) and SDs between 3-8.
In the end, my rifles shoot very well for my purposes and time investment. YMMV
I primarily shoot steel. I DO NOT; weight or measure bullets, weight or measure case volume on brass, turn necks, use an arbor press to measure neck tension when bullet seating, check concentricity of cases or rounds, etc.. I do a little more than the basics in that I anneal my brass after every firing and trim when needed. Other than that, I clean, size, prime, load powder and seat the bullet. I do pay attention to shoulder bump and seating depth but I don't measure each and every case. All of my ammunition has ESs under 15 (some are single digits) and SDs between 3-8.
In the end, my rifles shoot very well for my purposes and time investment. YMMV
That is a great fucking question that I was just recently asking myself after looking at all my toys and all the new toys I wanted to try. My answer was; I hope I never get there because the fun would be over. I do have a couple of short term realistic goals:
1. 10 shot group less than 0.300" (100 yards)
2. 20 shot group less than 0.500" (100 yards)
3. 50 shots all with a single digit extreame spread.
I have rifles that shoot .75 MOA. My hand loads shoot that. Iron sights. The goal is to do it without a rest. The other goal will be to see what the rifle I am building will shoot.
ETA:. Currently shoot about 1 1/4.
ETA:. Currently shoot about 1 1/4.
"There are few things that will improve hit percentage more than reducing wind uncertainty.”
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/06/09/how-much-does-it-matter-overall-summary/
The quote above is from Bryan Litz. I would tend to agree with his thoughts. The link below his quote is a very good read on this subject, ie, a pretty good discussion on just how far can we take the quest for accurate ammo, etc. It kind of puts the point of dimishing returns verses the effort expended into perspective. At least it did for me.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/06/09/how-much-does-it-matter-overall-summary/
The quote above is from Bryan Litz. I would tend to agree with his thoughts. The link below his quote is a very good read on this subject, ie, a pretty good discussion on just how far can we take the quest for accurate ammo, etc. It kind of puts the point of dimishing returns verses the effort expended into perspective. At least it did for me.
At 100 yards I like a ragged hole with 5 shots: doesn't matter if I'm shooting my 5.56 or my .308. Sometimes I'll get that, sometimes I don't. After that when I go long, I'm happy to hit the steel. Long for me is 300 to 600 with the 5.56 and 300 to 1,000 with the .308. [ I graduate size of targets with distance; I'm not shooting a 24" plate at 300 yds! ]
Yep, only accurate rifles are interesting. If my Dasher isn't one holing at 100 yards then something's wrong. Not terribly hard to achieve with that cartridge.
However I spend much more time and effort into practicing on being able to use that accuracy in competition than I do in load development. 2 MOA steel in the wind from crappy positions with 90 second par times is where the rubber meets the road.
You need to be able to clean a KYL rack when the time comes. Confidence in the accuracy of the load is a great foundation.
However I spend much more time and effort into practicing on being able to use that accuracy in competition than I do in load development. 2 MOA steel in the wind from crappy positions with 90 second par times is where the rubber meets the road.
You need to be able to clean a KYL rack when the time comes. Confidence in the accuracy of the load is a great foundation.
With my old man failing eyesight, I'll never shoot as well as I did as a kid. So I need guns that are better to make up for my decline. That hypothesis has not yet yielded too well so far but I'm still trying.
I'd never shot past 400 yards till a year ago and since getting into LR, it's about all I want to do. Every time we reach out a little farther, we move the target farther still and shoot at that. With our local range being longer than I'm probably going to be able to shoot, it's just a matter of finding out how far I can get before going totally blind.
I need to find the bucks for a 375 Lethal Mag and some eye surgery.
I'd never shot past 400 yards till a year ago and since getting into LR, it's about all I want to do. Every time we reach out a little farther, we move the target farther still and shoot at that. With our local range being longer than I'm probably going to be able to shoot, it's just a matter of finding out how far I can get before going totally blind.
I need to find the bucks for a 375 Lethal Mag and some eye surgery.
I also load for hunting and steel. A consistent 3/4 moa at 100 and first round hits at any distance up to 800Y. I do have rifles that will shoot sub half at 100, but after the first few sessions it becomes boring. I rather try to hit a 8" gong three or more times in 15-20 mph crosswinds @500Y. My new focus will be accurate first round hits going from slinged to ready (seated or prone) within a safe and reasonable time.
I have always believed accuracy is a state of mind. Meaning if you have confidence in your gun, you will.shoot better. Agree?
Assuming all the rest has been properly addressed (using proper technique, having a gun (& optics & ammo) capable of the desired accuracy, having the ballistics dialed, calling the wind well, etc.), then for sure having the zen-like state of mind is a part of the whole. Getting your head into the zone helps with consistency.
Accuracy has always been hitting what you're aiming at. For me today, it'd be repeatability, can you duplicate what was just done or better it. Now if you whack a 1moa size plate at 1200 yards in 35mph winds(1 shot), but 8 before and 7 after you missed, no need to repeat.
On the "Head" thing, I'd imagine emotionally charged people affected more.
On the "Head" thing, I'd imagine emotionally charged people affected more.
I've been back and forth on the subject of accuracy.
All out accuracy for me was a 6PPC benchrest rifle. A half inch group during load work was the worst, lol. 8 out of 10 groups were touching. But that doesn't mean much for long range with a 68 grain flat base. Fun though and quite a revelation. Just saying, go look at the top short range benchrest group agg if you want to see how we fare in comparison. Of course we'd kick their asses in the wind at long range.
Then went to 6.5-284 in the same rifle, yes same rifle because it had a sliding extractor and 308 sized bolt face. At first after a bunch of load work .4 was what it was capable of and that didn't last long - throat erosion.
Then went to 6x47L and in 6 barrels I learned that two barrels are/were hammers, one dismal, the rest average. So I don't chase my tail anymore as far as excessive load work, I know the peak accuracy of a barrel in a hundred rounds or less and have to accept fate or buy another barrel. This current barrel is a hammer, Yay, I will miss it! Yesterday in the wind (1 mil holdoff) hitting a 21" steel at 1122Y was too easy so after 7 hits in a row I got bored and stopped wasting ammo. 105 hybrids at 3125 fps are a thing of beauty. Though 140 hybrids at 3175 fps out of my 6.5 Saum, albeit a 10th less accurate is slightly more awesome.
I use the term, "accurate enough". Bullets - If they're touching for the most part at 100y, if they do good in the wind, and if I can put down hits on the harder targets at distance then I'm happy.
I do BR prep the brass for my better rifles. I have the time and certainly don't see a downside.
All out accuracy for me was a 6PPC benchrest rifle. A half inch group during load work was the worst, lol. 8 out of 10 groups were touching. But that doesn't mean much for long range with a 68 grain flat base. Fun though and quite a revelation. Just saying, go look at the top short range benchrest group agg if you want to see how we fare in comparison. Of course we'd kick their asses in the wind at long range.
Then went to 6.5-284 in the same rifle, yes same rifle because it had a sliding extractor and 308 sized bolt face. At first after a bunch of load work .4 was what it was capable of and that didn't last long - throat erosion.
Then went to 6x47L and in 6 barrels I learned that two barrels are/were hammers, one dismal, the rest average. So I don't chase my tail anymore as far as excessive load work, I know the peak accuracy of a barrel in a hundred rounds or less and have to accept fate or buy another barrel. This current barrel is a hammer, Yay, I will miss it! Yesterday in the wind (1 mil holdoff) hitting a 21" steel at 1122Y was too easy so after 7 hits in a row I got bored and stopped wasting ammo. 105 hybrids at 3125 fps are a thing of beauty. Though 140 hybrids at 3175 fps out of my 6.5 Saum, albeit a 10th less accurate is slightly more awesome.
I use the term, "accurate enough". Bullets - If they're touching for the most part at 100y, if they do good in the wind, and if I can put down hits on the harder targets at distance then I'm happy.
I do BR prep the brass for my better rifles. I have the time and certainly don't see a downside.
Similar threads
