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What could you say to sway...

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What could you say to sway the mind of a couple lesbians with two small kids to convince them that having a loaded handgun in a small safe by their bed was a good idea when they think the idea proves you are nuts? To me it's common sense. Ya here breaking glass in the middle of the night, ya grab a sidearm. But some people think that's crazy. Is there any way to open a liberal's mind?
 
I'm the Grandparent. I bought em a 9mm and safe.
 
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If they're not willing to tool up, focus on security. Strong doors/locks/windows, and a security system that will call the guys with the guns.

My guess is, when the riots get close they'll be asking you for a gun. (all my friends have)
 
I won't open anybody's mind (brain) unless they physically attack me and put my life in danger first...

Serious answer to OP's question though: I will not bother with the effort to try to convince them of anything. I got shit to do and I got a life of my own. These people and their voting habits ARE what caused our country to slide into the shitter. However, if their children are harmed because of a break in and the parents did not adequately protect them, I will report them to CPS for negligence. I WILL do that...
 
I'd think that the crime stats involving members of the gay/lesbian community would do all the talking.
 
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What could you say to sway the mind of a couple lesbians with two small kids to convince them that having a loaded handgun in a small safe by their bed was a good idea when they think the idea proves you are nuts? To me it's common sense. Ya here breaking glass in the middle of the night, ya grab a sidearm. But some people think that's crazy. Is there any way to open a liberal's mind?
The only way I can think of, is being there, armed, in response to their need. That usually gets them thinking “Gee, I feel safer now that Gramps, and his gun, are here now.”

I’ve seen that scenario play out twice in my life. Both those people own guns now. But me stepping in, armed, in their time of need for protection, ultimately got them rethinking about the validity and reasoning of owning a firearm (as well as being trained to use it).
 
I carry every day...have gotten training and in their minds that makes me the paranoid one. My EDC includes a can of pepper gel, a knife, flashlight, two mags and a tactical pen (when in areas of high risk) as demanded by my work. These two moms are pretty close-minded but i have to try and pry em open for the safety of their children. So please, offer rational suggestions or keep your personal opinions to yourself. I need help, not snarky remarks.
 
Honestly unless they live in a high crime area or have a specific reason for the need I'd let it be for the time being. Best to sow seeds in their minds about other areas in life/politics and slowly open their minds.
 
It seems like common sense to me. You hear breaking glass in the middle of the night. You either defend yourself and your loved ones or call Police and hope they arrive quickly. These days, that's less likely. Why don't they get it?
 
What could you say to sway the mind of a couple lesbians with two small kids to convince them that having a loaded handgun in a small safe by their bed was a good idea when they think the idea proves you are nuts? To me it's common sense. Ya here breaking glass in the middle of the night, ya grab a sidearm. But some people think that's crazy. Is there any way to open a liberal's mind?
If you’re trying to use logic to move someone from a position they arrived at by not using logic, you've already lost.
 
Why don't they get it?

That, right there. That's the difference between you and them. "Us and them". The ubiquitous "opposite view".

Thing is, you're using brains, thought, logic, reason, responsibility, respect, diligence, and even history in your due process of going about and living your daily life. Through eyeballs that are open enough to be aware.

"They" aren't. They are living in a utopian world where "If I want things to be 'such' then things 'shall-be-such' and that's all there is to it". A bit of a utopian mindset of creating their own reality. Because they've been told that "they can do anything" so they ARE doing just what they've been told.

Don Quixote tilted at windmills. You are doing likewise. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely comprehend the importance of the issue as well as the importance of the issue to you. But the thing is, your levels of 'important' and their levels of important are different. And as much as that may not compute in your circuitry.... that is truly the fact of the matter.

Blessings upon you, and I truly Pray that you don't have to deal with the consequences of THEIR actions,,, but it truly is beyond your control.
 
You can provide the tools, but you cannot provide the will. Someone who is dead set against firearms will most likely not even get it out if there is a break in, and if they do they will be more likely to acquiesce than to fire it at an assailant. I’ve seen it before, even amongst trained professionals, where when it comes time to level sights and take a life, they cannot bring themselves to do the deed.

I have a very lib daughter, I know the struggle. I choose my battles because having a good relationship with her is better than no relationship, and it was her that came to me for a handgun and training when she had someone creeping around her house at night. Patience, make sure she has a good hard exterior, and a plan for inside if someone gets through, that will be the good father/grandfather move in this case. Push the gun issue, you stand a strong chance of being blocked out of the picture all together.
 
Where's Bruce - I assume this is someone close to you, and for that struggle I am sorry that you worry, and bless you for the worry as well.

That said - they got to that point b/c of emotion. Logic and emotion exist on two separate plains. The only way they are going to come around to your way of thinking is when a far greater emotional experience (fear) brings them aboard.

Is what it is.
 
Yes , harden the exterior 1st,
To include a radio backup on an alarm system in case they cut the phone lines.
Hurricane proof windows and doors.
 
Once glass breaks at 2:00 AM they will get the message lickety split. 👅

That right there will definitely will get their attention
images.png
 
Hurricane proof windows and doors.
Those are awesome, and also very expensive, last time I bought one was in ‘05 for a large picture window and paid over $3k, I can only imagine how bad it is now. A good cost efficient secondary is heavy duty Mylar film on the outside if the windows are not already a laminate.
 
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In the past I have quoted response times after 911 has been called and then discussed what can be done to a person in three to nine minutes.
 
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In my experience, people who have these views don't always make a change until they have an experience that makes them feel unsafe. This is certainly not wishing bad on them, but they may just have to experience an eye opener before they change their opinion.
 
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I get it.

Family means a whole lot, kids and grandkids.

Try having a conversation without kids in earshot.
Sometimes facts can outweigh emotion. Sometimes not.

I feel for your position. Gotta be rough.

If your in Denver, holler.
I have whisky and am happy to share a bit..... 😊
 
The NRA has a column called "The Armed Citizen. Each month it features a dozen stories of people from all walks of life using firearms to save the life of themselves and loved ones. Often just the presence of a firearm was enough. Each story is taken from a newspaper and cited for reference. I began showing these columns to a liberal relative with a small child much like your relative. When the realization set in that these were a dozen stories from that month, every month, month after month, reality became too obvious to ignore and this person began to ask about firearm ownership. That was fifteen
years ago. This relative now competes in IDPA and is buying their now grown child a Thunder Ranch class as a 21st birthday present.
 
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I carry every day...have gotten training and in their minds that makes me the paranoid one. My EDC includes a can of pepper gel, a knife, flashlight, two mags and a tactical pen (when in areas of high risk) as demanded by my work. These two moms are pretty close-minded but i have to try and pry em open for the safety of their children. So please, offer rational suggestions or keep your personal opinions to yourself. I need help, not snarky remarks.

The best advice I can offer is a well worn saying. Try to get them to understand the truth behind it.

-When seconds count a cop is only minutes away.

They could be dead in under a minute and the cops show up to process the seen. Thats pretty simple, if they cant grasp that, with all respect, youre wasting your time and energy.
 
Sounds twisted but a visual often is more persuasive than a conversation. Find them the most horrible scene from a movie where a sadistic SOB tortures and kills someone's family right in front of them and then ask them how much of that they are willing to watch happen to their own family. Its not a matter of IF, its a matter of WHEN. I'm surprised the local news wouldn't be convincing enough is this aspect.
 
Pretty sure we had someone here ( @gayguns ) that was into changing that community's perception on firearms ownership. I was surprised and very impressed with how the Hide responded; overwhelmingly positive. He showed some hutzfa coming in here and stating his stance, need and quest for information. That (I believe) won him more respect than anything else, and showed that regardless of background, race, color, creed or sexual orientation, there are still things that bring us together, more so than push us apart.

Perhaps, if he still frequents here, he'll pipe in...
 
Even the LGBQ community gets it. https://observer.com/2019/03/pink-pistols-lgbtq-gun-groups-armed-against-homophobia/
They rent a home in OC. They believe they are safe from all evil and I am the nutty one they need to worry about. Very frustrating.
As I begin to put on my flameproof suit......

Here's a counterpoint to consider;

What if you did convince them to buy a gun/accept one into their household and one of them were injured or killed by it ? Or, if they did successfully defend themselves against an armed intruder and were suffering greatly from PTSD ?

My point is, who would they blame ? I'm betting it would be you. Is that something you are willing to accept as part of the "deal" ?

For the most part, I don't talk to any fence sitters or anti's any more about trying to convert them. Especially under present conditions, the smart ones will "iron up". The others ? They're never going to change their position and many of them will be the first to suffer from the conditions of the current climate. And, the climate for firearms ownership will only continue to deteriorate. If the fence sitters and the anti's can't see that their frog is being boiled, I realistically can't help them. And at this point, I don't have a lot of desire to try.

I do empathize with you and what you are going through. However, they are adults. They must make their own choices, good or bad. Whether we agree with them or not.
 
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As I begin to put on my flameproof suit......

Here's a counterpoint to consider;

What if you did convince them to buy a gun/accept one into their household and one of them were injured or killed by it ? Or, if they did successfully defend themselves against an armed intruder and were suffering greatly from PTSD ?

My point is, who would they blame ? I'm betting it would be you. Is that something you are willing to accept as part of the "deal" ?

For the most part, I don't talk to any fence sitters or anti's any more about trying to convert them. Especially under present conditions, the smart ones will "iron up". The others ? They're never going to change their position and many of them will be the first to suffer from the conditions of the current climate. And, the climate for firearms ownership will only continue to deteriorate. If the fence sitters and the anti's can't see that their frog is being boiled, I realistically can't help them. And at this point, I don't have a lot of desire to try.

I do empathize with you and what you are going through. However, they are adults. They must make their own choices, good or bad. Whether we agree with them or not.

Gotta take issue with that one.

They are family. Id rather have them suffer PTSD and hate me for it then have them tortured and killed.

The first you can change over time, the second, not so much.
 
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OP

Why specifically do they think having a 9mm in a safe is "crazy" ??

1. because they have children in the house?

2. because guns are crazy no matter what?

3. other?

There is a ton of liberal 'evidence' floating around that says if you have a gun the house with kids that your risk of child death/injury due to said gun increases some ridiculous percentage (like 70% but no idea the real number)

The logic stems from that, you must not care about the life of your children if you have a gun in the house.

They could never exist inside their peer group (leftist anti gunner parents) if they had a gun in the house with kids.

The whole premise is a play on math, guess what, if you own a car your kid has the same percentage increase of dying in a car crash, same with a pool, same percentage increase of death by drowning, so although the quote is mathematically sound it is disingenuous

bottom line, they would lose all their friends and facebook group fun
 
Nothing is changing. They obviously hate you and all you represent.

The only thing you can change is how you think about and react to the situation.

The odds of them actually having a violent encounter are quite slim.

Also keep in mind that stupid people and guns are a very bad combination.

You need to run your life and let them run theirs.

You will think my words harsh but they are none the less true.
 
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Gotta take issue with that one.

They are family. Id rather have them suffer PTSD and hate me for it then have them tortured and killed.

The first you can change over time, the second, not so much.

Yeah, there is that.

I'm just worn out trying to talk common sense to fence sitters/Anti's that can't look at things rationally. But, in the past, I have told people that I have had conversations with about guns is that the first thing to consider when buying something for protection is whether or not they could actually take another human's life in order to protect themselves/loved ones ? If the answer is no, or they waffle, I suggest they either go for some defensive training, or skip it.

Again, they are the adults. They need to be invested in their decision and not place that responsibility on me. If the shit hits the fan, it's very unlikely I would be there to pull the trigger for them.
 
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I think their argument rests on two points...
1. They view firearms more as a threat than a tool.
2. They don't believe anything bad can happen to them because of the safe place where they live.

Their position is emotion-based, mine is reality-based. There are bad people everywhere. You are either prepared or you are a victim. Trying to protect them, not an easy task. And no...they don't "hate me"...quite the opposite in fact.
 
nothing to sway if your happy with your lie than who am i to try to sway your delusions . if you can't figure out who and what you are then why would I waist my time and energy to do the work for you . I do wish them all the best of luck and happiness
 
What could you say to sway the mind of a couple lesbians with two small kids to convince them that having a loaded handgun in a small safe by their bed was a good idea when they think the idea proves you are nuts? To me it's common sense. Ya here breaking glass in the middle of the night, ya grab a sidearm. But some people think that's crazy. Is there any way to open a liberal's mind?

Nothing. If you have the delusion that they should be protected invite them to live with you, otherwise let them take their chances.
 
IF they view a gun a a threat, you are not going to change that

Buy them some non-lethal and hope for the best

Get them a high end tazer gun, the $500 or $1000 dollar range units
get them some aluminum softball bats to leave around the house (or collapsible batons)
Pepper spray
etc
make sure they have a security systen

and then what EVERYONE here has said to me, dogs, big dogs, lots of dogs
 


While I tend to agree, I have met a few who have the ability to have a conversation and LISTEN to someone else’s POV vs just argue.

The fact they are kin and seem to have a good relationship gives me a little hope they could hear him out.

As I sit here working on charts from home with my Glock sitting on my desk.....
 
There is not much worse in the world than two unskilled, poorly trained people who dislike guns trying to use a gun. They have twice as many naked women to offer the prowler than an average break in, that is a plus. I wouldn't force a gun into the hands of someone who does not value their life enough to defend it.

People who dislike guns are very unlikely to use guns, to train with guns or to want to defend themselves with guns. They are far more likely to leave guns unsecured and put others at risk, especially children. They are very likely to have a firearms related accident if they try and play with guns, alone in their home without your supervision. They are the kind of people who walk around racking a pump shotgun hoping the noise scares off the prowler or bring a loaded gun out at a party for their friends to shoot each other with, accidentally of course..
 
I am surprised a lot of people wouldn't know how to handle this in a real life scenario, This is really simple if you look at the facts. The is a positive and negative to everything and that's just the TRUTH. Some dark side of self defense is being target to make it look like protecting your property and self is bad...I am not going to start naming political sect but i'll say the positive side of owning a firearms has been immensely downplayed, What about all the fathers who protector their homes because they were gun owners ?
 
What could you say to sway the mind of a couple lesbians with two small kids to convince them that having a loaded handgun in a small safe by their bed was a good idea when they think the idea proves you are nuts? To me it's common sense. Ya here breaking glass in the middle of the night, ya grab a sidearm. But some people think that's crazy. Is there any way to open a liberal's mind?
Send over Bigfatcock for a visit! They may change their minds!
 
I have given my entire family firearms, taken them shooting, equipped them with pepper gel cans, tactical first aid with Quik Clot kits for each of their cars...all the common sense things I can think of. But I sense the daughter-in-law is the biggest objector to being properly armed and prepared...she's kinda lacking in the IQ dept. I can see the end of the tunnel much clearer than the beginning and know the day when I cannot try to sway and protect them will is coming. I don't wanna give up...I keep thinking somebody somewhere resolved this same issue in a brilliant way I haven't considered yet. Thus this post.
 
Pretty sure we had someone here ( @gayguns ) that was into changing that community's perception on firearms ownership. I was surprised and very impressed with how the Hide responded; overwhelmingly positive. He showed some hutzfa coming in here and stating his stance, need and quest for information. That (I believe) won him more respect than anything else, and showed that regardless of background, race, color, creed or sexual orientation, there are still things that bring us together, more so than push us apart.

Perhaps, if he still frequents here, he'll pipe in...

I thought I saw his username the other day, with red banner of ban cat, in some necro thread.
 
Yeah, there is that.

I'm just worn out trying to talk common sense to fence sitters/Anti's that can't look at things rationally. But, in the past, I have told people that I have had conversations with about guns is that the first thing to consider when buying something for protection is whether or not they could actually take another human's life in order to protect themselves/loved ones ? If the answer is no, or they waffle, I suggest they either go for some defensive training, or skip it.

Again, they are the adults. They need to be invested in their decision and not place that responsibility on me. If the shit hits the fan, it's very unlikely I would be there to pull the trigger for them.

Thats usually the first question I ask. If they answer negative then they shouldnt have a weapon anyway it will just be taken from them and used on them.

And I under stand your weariness in trying to talk common sense to the nonsensical.