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Rifle Scopes What do you want in a scope?? (Think outside the box!)

TresMon

TresMon

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 3, 2007
1,241
136
NW USA
Greetings Crew,
Long time no post. TresMon here, primarily from the old board. Greetings.

I have became a consultant for a gentleman that makes extreme high-end custom optics for astronomy.
He currently is researching, engineering & prototyping His companies first rifle scopes. Things are moving right along and he has a fast turn around time on prototypes. The first few prototypes are showing great promise having tested them in the field.

It's really exciting (to me at least) as prior to connecting with me He already had some really innovative thoughts & truly exciting ideas. Not variations on a theme, but truly fresh stuff. One I know is going to be a huge hit and we have talked Him into filing for a patent of that feature.

We came up with a patentable idea that removes all moving parts in the tube of the scope. = guaranteed precise & perfect tracking, not to mention holding zero.
His design is such that it's not possible for the scope to have any parrallax*{Spellin?} thereby removing the need & time of making that correction.

He really knows his glass. I guess when you are striving to have the brightest, clearest image possible, at night & at high magnification, you learn a lot along the way. He has scientifically analyzed the glass in many of what most of us would agree are the top scopes on the market. He told me He was actually really surprised- that in the entire spectrum of overall lens quality- with what's actually available on the optical glass market-that at best, the top scopes have glass that's well down on the lower half of the quality scale. He adamantly claims that the glass He is going to use in production is going to be literally 100 times better than the current top scopes. .
~ I dunno, don't stone me!! ~ Just relating the claim.

He has a really cool design that makes the scopes lighter and more compact than previously possible.


So anyway....wether you think it's cool & exciting, thinking "whatever," or even calling BS.....

If your willing to share: What are your thoughts on what scopes in the (near) future should have feature wise, specification wise etc.?? Think outside the box, but stay just on this side of light saber technology.


What are the features, specs and reasons on why you purchased that make & model of your finest, favorite scope?

In your opinion what is the best, and why:

eye relief?

tube diameter?

objective lens diameter?

Magnification range?
^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ---- For now we are designing two models of scope. 1.) a CQB/3gun/DMR/combat/hunter scope & 2.) a GI/LEO/Target/ELR scope.

Click value?

Etc,etc.

Thanks so much for your time & any input,
​​​​​​​T
 
Hmmm, well to start with it would be nice if it did not cost very much but delivered very high quality and dependability. It would be nice if the optics were very good and the housing was very rugged and not heavier than it needed to be. I like the H2CMR reticle. The turrets should be accurate and dependable. I'de prefer mil/mil fir the turrets. Going to need good illumination with settings for night vision up to low light. A diopter that is easy to adjust is nice. I would also like a paralax adjustment that yeilds a nice sharp result.

Finish it with Made some where I would like to live (like the USA, Germany or Austria) and a life time warrenty backed by good customer service and you might have a winner.
 
I just want to be able to know what every thing does and does it correctly. I hate it when your exactly an inch away from center so you go 4 clicks. Then you shoot and now your half and inch on the other side. That drives me nuts. Maybe I should stop buying $150-$400 scopes.
 
Carbon fiber tube 40mm(150 MOA internal travel). 60mm objective. 5-50x60 Mag range. Titanium rings some how integraded into tube with say 75 MOA of cant. Built in range finder with ABS solver. Digital heads up display with a digital reticle. Built in leveling system. Kestrel blue tooth compatable. Lifetime warranty. $2,500 competitive price. Lightweight. 100% perfect tracking. 10 different color Illumination. Built in night/thermal vision. A nice clean design like the Vortex gen 2 razor. Good luck making that happen any time soon! I challenge you and your big shot boss. Step up to the plate with your claims.
 
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I'm in on the built in switch between daytime/night vision/thermal. Since your boss got rid of parallax use that turret for switching between the three.



 
1) Light and compact. 2) Pressure switch activated zoom, parallax, and elevation. 3) Onboard range finder, weather station, and solver. 4) Digital reticles. 5) A free quality pack to carry back up traditional scope when all of the above craps out.
 
If we are shooting for the moon on imaginary scopes, I would say.. A scope that performs better in all aspects than what is available today yet also has built on NV or thermal, a self correcting reticle when your dope is entered via AB or the like (like a Burris eliminator that bases corrections off of actual data), built in atmospheric meter, and last but not least, built in blue tooth speaker to jam out while shooting. (Joking, but kinda..)
 
While digital reticle, built in night vision, abs etc. would be great I think on a somewhat realistic note would be:
First and foremost, VORTEX WARRANTY!!!!!! It could have every single feature mentioned but if it does take a shit I don't want to think what it would cost to repair.

1) compact size (5-20 ultra short size)
2) 3-30 mag range or similar 5-45
3) ebr-7 reticle (perfect in my opinion)
4) 30oz or less
5) 10 mil turrets with good spacing (razor gen 2 is perfect in this regard I feel)
6) locking turrets
7) tool less zero set (Tangent Theta)
8) audible tactile clicks (Tangent Theta)
9) illumination from NV up to day time bright
10) locking diopter
11) 120+ MOA of travel
13) 56mm objective 34mm tube
14) sold with optional MTC feature every full mil
15) 2nd and 3rd turn indicator (razor gen 2 style)
16) 50 ft FOV at 5x or 80ft FOV at 3x
17) built in folding throw lever
18) built in level system (sig tango 6 style)



And now for some semi unrealistic features
1) scratch proof lenses
2) glass so good it will cut through mirage
3) some built in contraption that will tell me an accurate wind call regardless of distance
4) user made programmable digital reticle
5) carbon fiber construction

That's about all.


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.
 
OK, I'm in. Absolute accuracy in tracking. Turrets that align perfectly with marks. Increased magnification range. Illum. usable from night vision to bright daylight. Easy to focus diopter. Better image quality and naturally all in a smaller, lighter and more durable package. Less than $3K. This is of course a pipe dream and as most engineering is a balance of compromises, not realistic.

The accuracy in tracking is an absolute. Better image quality is always a positive. If he could accomplish those two things and still provide the various features of other top end scopes he would have a winner depending on price point.
 
I love a reticle that is sweet on the eye (fine) and does not clog the target up with 'reticle' of what your shooting.
 
A realistic response, what a novelty:

Absolutely dead nuts tracking/ repeatability
Fair eye box
modern reticle options

Do those things and offer glass that is truly transcendent and you win

fail on those things with glass that would make the madonna cry and you still fail
 
I'll play. If you're talking the world of parallax-free...

...how about a modular scope? Say, interchangable objective bell that can take a very compact 3-15 and increase it to a 25x without giving up the 3x.

Otherwise, the #1 thing is touting greatness and under-deliver, never deliver, or set pricing at DoD contract pricing.
 
Covertnoob5 said:
1) compact size (5-20 ultra short size)
2) 3-30 mag range or similar 5-45
3) ebr-7 reticle (perfect in my opinion)
4) 30oz or less
5) 10 mil turrets with good spacing (razor gen 2 is perfect in this regard I feel)
6) locking turrets
7) tool less zero set (Tangent Theta)
8) audible tactile clicks (Tangent Theta)
9) illumination from NV up to day time bright
10) locking diopter
11) 120+ MOA of travel
13) 56mm objective 34mm tube
14) sold with optional MTC feature every full mil
15) 2nd and 3rd turn indicator (razor gen 2 style)
16) 50 ft FOV at 5x or 80ft FOV at 3x
17) built in folding throw lever
18) built in level system (sig tango 6 style)
Click to expand...

What Covert said. Light and Short!!! I also like the dual Focal Plane idea.

 
First absolutely perfect tracking and durability, then good clarity/contrast with generous eye box. Pretty much very standard things. I will keep looking back but seem initially leery to the claim of no moving parts but allowing tracking which must shift point of aim (though maybe electronic shift could accomplish but then durability comes into question). Of course you have to patent before you can explain the mechanism behind.
 
Lots of replies are still inside the proverbial box. Here are some ideas.

1. Ultra compact design. Think burris fastfire. But using multiple interchangeable pieces (e.g. one for a fully customizable reticle, one for high mag range and one for fine focus). This system would be almost infinitely configurable with regards to magnification range and reticle focal plane.
2. Infinitely adjustable and reliable locking for zero. With visual indication of adjustment changes in the field of view through the lenses.
3. Exact range indication based on focal properties. Ideally as a purely analog, mechanical feature also visible in the field of view through the lenses.
4. Rugged
​​​​​5. Ability to add modules for illumination and night vision
6. Lens adjustments that are fully customizable to the customers eyes. Think prescription eye glasses, but a sytem that can also be adjusted on the fly perhaps as a separate module.
7. Adjustments for glare, tint or polarization in varying light conditions, perhaps as a separate module.
8. All modules would be infinitely compatible with quick detatch ability to add or remove components on the fly.
9. In my price range. lol

That should be a little outside the box.
 
No need to reinvent the wheel. Provide slightly better quality and the same feature set, as the biggest competitor in the price range and it will be a winner.
 
I'd just like a sub 30 oz. Razor g2 3-18x50mm with my personally deisgned reticle, and the length of an UltraShort. Thats literally a perfect scope except for weight in my opinion (never used it, just looking at straight quality and features that I want).

For the other optic, March 1-8 shorty, Razor g2 1-6, or something like that, FFP, sub 20 oz, 10 mil turrets, ZS, 34mm maintube, 30mm objective with my personal reticle.

So basically a lighter scope that you can program your reticles with thats just as durable as tier 1 scopes are today like S&B, Vortex G2 Razor, TT, etc.

As far as reticles go, even if I had to pay $500 for my reticle to be installed (if not digital), I'd happily throw money at it. If we're spending 2k or more, $500 is nothing to get what you want.
 
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Once he get's into production he should send a sample for testing to the first ten people who posted on this thread. Later posters should recieve a discount from the retail price.

When He sets up his distribution he should make clear that he will also be selling direct to Snipers Hide members.
 
Most important features in a scope: durability and reliability. Make sure that it's able to take a few knocks and still be reliable, make sure it tracks perfectly every time, and the illumination doesn't fail at the sight of some dust or water. This doesn't sound like a problem if you have actually taken all moving parts out of the scope. After that, glass and clarity. Most glass in riflescopes won't inhibit you from engaging a target in a PRS type setting, but once you take a scope hunting and try to squeak out the last half-hour of usable shooting light, that's when you know you've got a winner. 95%+ light transmission, no CA, easily tuneable parallax, good resolution. if you can pack all these features into a small, light frame (<12 inches, <25 oz) that's a bonus. If it also costs less for outperforming the competition (sub $1000 is nice, but $1500 is more realistic) you'll have a winner. Add a full lifetime, transferable warranty like Vortex, and have good customer service, your consumers will love you. If the claims you make come to fruition, I will be very excited and this could lead to one of the biggest riflescope revolutions since I've been alive. Hope you can make this happen.
 
supercorndogs said:
No need to reinvent the wheel. Provide slightly better quality and the same feature set, as the biggest competitor in the price range and it will be a winner.
Click to expand...

Somebody is going to reinvent the wheel eventually. Imagine how the finest horse carriage maker felt the first time they saw Fords motor car putter by....

 
TresMon said:
Somebody is going to reinvent the wheel eventually. Imagine how the finest horse carriage maker felt the first time they saw Fords motor car putter by....
Click to expand...

And the inventor of the wheel laughed and said, yep still round. I always laugh at the seemingly European idea that accomplishing a simple task in a more complicated way is better. The wheel was a bad simile for a scope, the wagon vs car is better. I am ready to see the scope that makes my current glass look like an ox cart.
 
Sounds like some want a portable video game. I really would like to only see minimal mirage at high mag when aiming on the small Fclass x ring.
 
I'd like to see a 1-8 or 2-10 option and for long stuff a 5-20ish range which I think covers everything you could need in a real world application.

Short and light is also highly desirable as stated above. I'm really stuck on tactile clicks for external turrets.

Other than that I think it goes without saying, the best product he can put out at the lowest price to the consumer.

Can't wait to see what y'all come up with







I went to Barrett.
 
Always wondered why noone came up with a CQB type scope (red dot or traditional reticle) that was <1X.

No reason why 'wide angle' camera lens technology could not be applied to a scope that went 0.5X - 4x... and gave a wide angle view inside rooms or tubes.

I have an older donut-reticle 1x - 4x scope that when dialed to 1x actually is less than 1x. Got me thinking...

Just something I always wondered about.

I also built a couple of polarizers for scopes. Makes a hell of a difference when shooting through glass.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Tan colored scope with the following included accessories in tan:
Good flip caps
Switch lever
Sun shade
Level


How about a flip out mirage shade/cover? For the barrel, not just for a silencer. Scope mounted for bolt guns, rail mounted for gas guns.
 
Alright, I may be 'inventing' a few things, but here goes:

- Make it as light as possible; if you can get a 5-25+ optic to weigh less than a 2.5-10x24 without cutting a corner, you're off to a great start
- Fantastic glass with an IR filtering, anti glare coating
- Very tactile yet fast turrets with 10MIL per rev that have a select able locking feature and easily settable zero stop
- Option for true 1x with parallax free, daylight visible RDS in optic (this is the #1 problem for most scopes with some sort of red dot/illuminated dot in it; they are either still magnified causing the FOV to suck or they are static and not parallax free defeating the entire purpose of this option)
- Reticle is some kind of high definition LED to where you would have a choice of what reticle you wanted to use and could download others; could come with a program where you could design your own kind of like a reticle AutoCad that could then be downloaded to the optic
- Low profile turrets (or at least the option for it)
- Internal level/cosine
- Small HUD out of the way inside the glass that gives you simple values for data you can select (kind of like the user screens in a Kestrel) for things like heading, clicks past zero, current turret setting
- USB or data port for Vector LSR that can have the range/cosine be put on the aforementioned small HUD; this can go even further to be like the AB calculator in the kestrel that then gives you an instant elevation setting to dial without even taking your eye out of the scope. I would leave it for elevation only as wind isn't reliable at just the shooter and is just noise.
 
I have always wondered why scope turrets have to have clicks? I only use mine in the day time and can always see where the turret is at. I would like a scope where it was simply a smooth turn with marks ever half mil on the turret.
 
Don't people want parallax so they can focus on the wind, especially for PRS where you are not stationary and don't have a spotting scope?
 
all i want in a scope:

fixed 10x 50mm
mil/mil
zero stop
accurate tracking
STEEL tube
under $1K


i dont want a computer....i dont want batteries.......i want a stupid rugged scope i can run over with a truck and have it hold zero......im a ham-fisted gorilla, i want a scope i cant break.
 
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I.... piss I like that... a steel tubed 10x would be quite nice.

But how much more durable can you get compared to a fixed USO?
 
Like everything else that has improved over the years, I want my scopes to be smaller, lighter, faster, and just as reliable.

Shrink size with the same productivity.
 
Mordamer said:
I have always wondered why scope turrets have to have clicks? I only use mine in the day time and can always see where the turret is at. I would like a scope where it was simply a smooth turn with marks ever half mil on the turret.
Click to expand...

I will adjust my turrets without looking off target. The clicks allow for this.
 
What do I want in a scope? I want SOMEONE ELSE to pay for it.
 
Ballistic Computer with HUD seems to be where the future will go, and I think it can't come fast enough. Otherwise, what about the ability to preset three different elevation adjustments and switch between them with a simple click or push of a dial or button. That would rock for PRS shooting when you have multiple targets at different ranges.
 
Mag range 3-15 or 3-18, parallax free, good glass, good tracking, and lightweight. mil/mil clicks/reticle. bonus for illumination.

 
1.5-15x42 that is short and under two pounds, duel focal plane, Mil/Mil, illumination on the FFP with no noticeable light broadcast toward the target, locking low profile 10 mil turrets with zero stop and second rev indicator.
 
notorious said:
Like everything else that has improved over the years, I want my scopes to be smaller, lighter, faster, and just as reliable.

Shrink size with the same productivity.
Click to expand...

This. In every other market, as things improve they get smaller and lighter. Except the scope market apparently. How is is that Leupold is able to make a super light compact 3-18 and no one else can even come close?
 
Spent many years as a serious amateur astrophotographer and collaborated with professional astronomers internationally many times. Got to see and use some of the best glass made. Even the equipment made for amateur astronomers can have fantastic glass or mirrors. Often these lenses are not a single element but sandwiches of glass with perhaps one part being a flourite lens. Shaping these mirrors and lenses can not only involve grinding and hand polishing, but exotic techniques like ion milling. Companies like Takahashi, TEC and Astro-Physics make some marvelous instruments.

There is one thing in common with all these wonderful optics - they are expensive as hell, and most of the expense is the lenses. So don't expect phenomenal glass at Wally World prices.
 
How about a scope like the NF ATACR 4-16 in a lighter package with better glass? Personally, I don't care about illuminated reticles so there's some weight savings. I like mil/mil turrets and would love to see a click less than .1 mils. Maybe .05? Capped windage and a good elevation lock are essential for me. All that would make a wonderful, lighter weight tactical HUNTING optic.
 
The only thing I'd add to everything that has been said is that it is easy to make something super complicated, expensive etc but it's hard to design something that is simple and reliable (and affordable).

Prototyping costs are going to be expensive as well.
 
I'd like to design and order my own reticles and install them in the scope myself as I did in the old days with Pecar ffp scopes. I usually had 3 or 4 reticle units with hunting turrets and target turrets that I could change myself in 5 minutes on the scopes. All scopes and reticle units were interchangeable.
 
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