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what is the maximum you can seat ogive off the lands / jump?

elfster1234

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jun 3, 2012
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    what is the maximum you can seat ogive off the lands / jump? I've always done about .015 to .020 off the lands, but what is the max? I think I have some nodes locked down and i'm going to start playing around with ogive seating depths / jumps... just wondering if there is a max
     
    I think the answer to your question is to look at the bullet manufactures published seating depths / COAL. For example .308 168 SMK is 2.80". You don't want to be going shorter than that for practical reasons obviously but that coal in any R700 factory chambered 308 will have a massive jump to the lands - perfectly safe. As usual it's a balance between seating in or close to the lands for optimum accuracy and having a cartridge that you are able to mag feed (if you should so wish).
     
    what is the maximum you can seat ogive off the lands / jump? I've always done about .015 to .020 off the lands, but what is the max? I think I have some nodes locked down and i'm going to start playing around with ogive seating depths / jumps... just wondering if there is a max

    Every barrel and bullet combo is different.

    Some systems can shoot way off the lands, others not so much so. Take a typical Rem 700 and the FGMM 168s, like the poster above references. 2.805"ish and with that model of rifle, you might have a .050"-.100" jump, but yet it still shoots quite well.

    I read an article over on 6mmBR.com, where they queried champion shooters and more than a couple stated that they seated .017" off the lands and that jump worked for them, but there's no hard and fast rule.

    SMKs like a jump, VLDs don't. It's just something that you have to play with.

    This is just an informal, hack job that I did with the pre-production Berger 250gr Hybrid OTMs last year and the only thing that I played with was COAL. Lands were at about 3.855", IIRC.

    Chris

    250Berger338test2.jpg
     
    I think the answer to your question is to look at the bullet manufactures published seating depths / COAL. For example .308 168 SMK is 2.80". You don't want to be going shorter than that for practical reasons obviously but that coal in any R700 factory chambered 308 will have a massive jump to the lands - perfectly safe. As usual it's a balance between seating in or close to the lands for optimum accuracy and having a cartridge that you are able to mag feed (if you should so wish).

    Couldn't have said it better myself. Your loading manual will specify COL for a given bullet/cartridge....that is the number you start with. For the R700's...mine is about 0.095" from a 2.80" COL .308 175SMK round to the lands....Remington's attempt to keep us from blowing ourselves up with bullets loaded into the lands.
     
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Your loading manual will specify COL for a given bullet/cartridge....that is the number you start with. For the R700's...mine is about 0.095" from a 2.80" COL .308 175SMK round to the lands....Remington's attempt to keep us from blowing ourselves up with bullets loaded into the lands.

    Respectfully disagree somewhat.

    If the rifle in question is a stock Remington with a long (LONG) throat, I agree. Because you'd never be able to load cartridges long enough to seat the bullet in the lands anyway, the loading manual/SAAMI spec is a practical place to start.

    However, if you have a custom, or a rifle with a shorter throat that does in fact allow you to reach the lands, my opinion is you're smart to *begin* load development seated int the lands, and work up from there. The reason, is this creates a worst case scneario for pressure, and allows you to identify a max (real max) charge for your rifle with that bullet, brass and primer combination. In contrast, if the chamber could accomodate a cartridge at 2.950", and you identifed a max pressure load at 2.900", you'd find yourself overpressure using that same charge but seating the bullets out longer to 2.950". Instead, if you identify the max charge seated into the lands at 2.950", you can safely seat the bullet deeper while maintaining the same charge**

    **Disclaimer: If you really seat the bullets WAY deeper, you'll run into pressure the other direction, but it takes a dramatic change.

    To more directly answer the OPs question though: There is no "max".

    Consider that a stock R700 SPS (or similar) 308 chamber can accomodate a cartridge loaded with a 168smk to ~3.000" COAL. Most of these rifles will shoot the 2.810" COAL Federal GMM ammo very well, meaning your jumping that bullet ~.200".
     
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    And don't forget there are rifles made deliberately with a long throat to control chamber pressures that still shoot very well indeed.
    Cartridge Throat length (free bore)
    .224 Weatherby Magnum .162
    .240 Weatherby Magnum .169
    .257 Weatherby Magnum .378
    .270 Weatherby Magnum .378
    7MM Weatherby Magnum .378
    .300 Weatherby Magnum .361
    .340 Weatherby Magnum .373
    .375 Weatherby Magnum .373
    .378 Weatherby Magnum .756
    .416 Weatherby Magnum .239
    .460 Weatherby Magnum .756
    .30-378 Weatherby Magnum .361
    .338-378 Weatherby Magnum .361
    You then add the bullet seating depth and the numbers are impressive.
    I'm sure there are members who own these rifles and they shoot well.
     
    "just wondering if there is a max (jump)..."

    Only that if you seat too deep the bullets will fall inside the case and accuracy will be lousy.

    Book OAL is what the book makers used in their test program and it has no meaning to us other than that, it has no meaning for accuracy nor any special significance for the specific bullet or rifle they used. All the testers are really telling us is the velocity they got for the charges they list with the brass and primers they used. Using that data correctly is up to us.
     
    I wish this was the case, but I actually had some 165 grain game match bullets that had to be seated well below coal using my hornady bullet comparator as they had a funky secant radius to the bullet... If i seated to sierras recommended coal the bullet would've been pushed back into the brass and heck that was with my semi auto LMT MWS...



    Couldn't have said it better myself. Your loading manual will specify COL for a given bullet/cartridge....that is the number you start with. For the R700's...mine is about 0.095" from a 2.80" COL .308 175SMK round to the lands....Remington's attempt to keep us from blowing ourselves up with bullets loaded into the lands.
     
    Rapidrob, is right on, most Weatherby rifles shoot well, in fact real well, as hunting rifles go, they'll hang with anything. Roy Weatherby liked freebore-his bullets jumped, and still shot well, still do. Now will a Weatherby shoot a given XYZ VLD well with all that jump, I do not know, but I do know, they shoot "pretty good" with lots of bullets.