What is the purpose of a short magnum?

[Mike]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike is this ok? A 10 shot group at 300 yards fired by one of those inherently inaccurate belted 300WMs

</div></div>

Barely "OK"

 

[Mike]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The weight may only be a few ounces, but combine those ounces with ounces saved in the stock, and scope and you end up saving pounds. </div></div>

Actually, you're way off the mark and let me explain why. Given two rifles built to the exact same specifications save caliber, you will not come close to saving "pounds". The amount you save in a longer scope rail, and a 1/4" longer action is not even going to add up to 1 pound let alone pounds. Hunting rifles have a weaker argument for a weight savings than tactical rifles by far.

 

[Austan]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

More ounces on the rail, more on the action, more on the barrel, more on the stock, more on the bottom metal. If only one pound, it will be well worth it on days of carrying it, for me anyway, but you just keep being a hater.lol

It isn't a weak argument for me, if I'm going to spend thousands on a rifle spec'ed to be the lightest, I'm going to make every effort for it to be just that. Thats what I'm telling my wife so can we just agree.

 

[Mike]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More ounces on the rail, more on the action, more on the barrel, more on the stock, more on the bottom metal. If only one pound, it will be well worth it on days of carrying it, for me anyway, but you just keep being a hater.lol

It isn't a weak argument for me, if I'm going to spend thousands on a rifle spec'ed to be the lightest, I'm going to make every effort for it to be just that. Thats what I'm telling my wife so can we just agree.</div></div>

First, you said "light hunting rifle"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am currently spec'ing a build to be a light hunting rifle. </div></div>

Most hunters use two piece bases. Nullifying a weight argument there. And if you ARE building a "light hunting rifle" common sense would dictate you would also use a two piece base to save weight. So that takes the base out of the question.

The barrel? How do you save weight on the barrel? The ONLY difference between a 308 and a 300WM barrel is the chamber and if you want to get technical, one could argue that have a 300WM chamber takes more metal away and therefore makes the barrel lighter. I can make both barrels the same length and still maintain performance.

Bottom metal, so light the difference is nearly insignificant.

So you have an action and a stock and bottom metal that will comprise a full 16oz?

Let's take a look at the stock.

If we go to Manners and look at their MCS-SL (superlight hunting stock) as seen here

http://mannersstocks.com/UltralightHunter.html

We'll see that the ENTIRE weight of the stock is "24 to
27 ounces depending on the configuration and butt pad selection." So if the entire stock weighs 27oz at the most, how much is a 1/4" of stock going to weigh? I bet not even an ounce.

Bottom Metal. Again if we take Remington bottom metal and compare a SA to a LA, you are looking at the weight <span style="font-style: italic">maybe</span> an ounce including the follower.

So if you're going to spend thousand to spec a rifle to be the lightest and you're really going to be concerned over a few ounces, that's your business, but don't try to convince us that it's going to make a HUGE difference. You can easily save the weight difference in another piece of kit.

I know the truth stings and like a typical democrat you'll attack the speaker rather than the argument but if you try and swallow it slowly, you'll see you can get it down.

Good luck with your build.

 

[Austan]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

We aren't talking about a 308 compared to a 300wm, we are talking about a 300wsm, or in my case a 300 saum. The barrel weight of the 300wm will have to be a .5" longer in the shank to accomadate the chambering. There will not be more metal being removed as the case diameters are roughly the same. And to get super uber technical, the 300wsm has a bigger case diameter so it would have more metal removed for the same amount of barrel. And it should probably be said that I will be using a model 7 action for even more of a huge weight savings.lol. And an ABS barrel. And of course we're not talking about a huge difference in weight. We will have to agree to disagree on this one as you know there will be a weight difference, it's just not enough for you to think it has merit, while I feel completely justified in it being worth it.

Mostly I just don't want the extra weight pushing down on the poor plants I step on being I'm a democrat and all.

And don't get me started on the extra carbon you emit with a bigger powder charge in the 300wm, I'll get ice core samples out of my freezer.

Have a merry Christmas.

 

[Mike]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And don't get me started on the extra carbon you emit with a bigger powder charge in the 300wm, I'll get ice core samples out of my freezer.

Have a merry Christmas.</div></div>

Now that's funny. Do you get Carbon Credits by shooting less powder? And if so, are they offset by the plants you walk and piss on?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours.

 

[RyanScott]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Nixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Short actions are by design, inherently stiffer than a long action of the same type. </div></div>

When this site stops it's love affair with Remingtons I will take more serious consideration of it. According to a riflesmith locally, the Winchester M70 is 250% stiffer than a Remington...

 

[ToddM]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

It really depends on the rifle, in say the tikka t3 or sako finnlight it's 1/2lb lighter for the wsm version.

Is a half pound a lot? Not when you are dealing with a 15 pound rifle that only goes from the truck to the bench. Is it a lot when you are packing it up a mountain every day all day for 2 weeks. Yep. Of course many buying rifles could stand to loose 20lbs off themselves than worry about a half pound of rifle weight, but that's a whole different discussion there. Many people pay a LOT of money to drop a half pound in rifle weight on light hunting rigs. Being able to do so with essentially the same ballistic performance (at all but the heaviest bullet weights) without spending an extra dime is a pretty nice bonus if you are looking to build a light mountain rifle.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Less powder, comparable velocity, better barrel life, short action, lighter, and it will make you a better shooter than all those belted magnum queers.

 

[mempilot]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Well, I see this site has it's asshole know it all pricks that feel the need to point out the 'my way or the highway' mentality. What a shame.

If someone's goal is to put a .308 175 grain piece of lead down range with the most efficient and compact package available, a short barrel 300 WSM makes sense. Carbon wrap a worked over cut barrel and make it even lighter. I'd love to have a 10lb hunting rifle that can shoot about as well as my 308 distance shooter. The short magnums make that possible. When the ultimate goal is a light tack driver, the weight savings are a cumulative tally and more areas can be cut when considering different cartridges as a base.

Always seems like the guys that talk the loudest and put down ideas with prejudice are the ones that need the most consoling at the range.

 

[Outerspace]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

I thought that short mag barrels has shorter lives, now I'm hearing otherwise. What gives?

 

[Outerspace]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

In full disclosure, my brother and I are looking at a custom build, the bolts we own already are not sub MOA. Right now the caliber that looks the best for us is 7mm RSAUM. So trying to see if there are downsides or upsides beyond the good ballistics.

I thought my reading said those barrels wear faster.

 

[ToddM]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Any caliber discussion is going to bring about a pissing match for some, sadly that's just the way it is.

10 pounds is not light, not even close. My LTR with a leupold M3 3.5-10x and B&C light tactical stock runs 10 lbs and is a tack driver and could easily be converted to a 300 wsm (with a 300 saum donor). With a light sporter stock, and talley rings it would probably push 9lbs and still shoot ~1/2 moa with factory ammo, closer to 8.5 lbs with a light scope. So if you want a tack driving sub 10lb rig that's easy even in a short varmint barrel contour.

Light to me for a hunting rig is 7 lbs or less with scope and all the trimmings. If you want custom there are guys making guns that shoot great groups that are around 6 lbs ready to hunt. As long as you don't rapid fire them round after round and cook the barrel they shoot great groups.

 

[doc76251]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Hi Mike, Merry Christmas!!!!!

Geometry is the main player in this as well as advertising and marketing. The WSM, RAUSM's etc are taking advantage of the "discovery" of a the short fat case with steep shoulders "recently" discovered by G. David Tubb and others in the BR and square range shooters. Sorry, P.O. Ackley figured it out a bit less than 70 years ago. The steep shoulders reflect the "fire" generated by the igniting of the powder from the bottom single source of ignition. Inherently more accurate? No. Inherently more consistent? Yes. Consistency = Accuracy.

Length of throw, weight of action and all the other fluff are just that. FLUFF.

Belts vs no Belts, who gives a crap as long as it head spaces consistently. IMHO, belts are like BDC knobs, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, designed by people with something to sell.

That all being said I drive a 30-06 with a 210 Berger or 208 AMAX at 2800 fps and I feel not the slightest bit encumbered by my long bolt, 100+ year old cartridge in my 25" tube. I do have a 300 WSM in a 24" tube that belches fire driving a 190 SMK at 3K+ fps. I'd seriously advise against a short tube on a WSM cartridge unless you have a can you'd like to burn up. 65+ grains or RE-22 needs some inches to be effective I dunt care what cartridge it comes from.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[RockKrawler]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Actually the modern craze for the short cases began when a writer,Rick Jamison began experimemting with the 404 Jeffrey case.
He asked readers to help name the rounds which were the insert caliber/Jamison.( also known as the Short Fat Warthog to some)
Rick went to Winchester to sell the idea,they said no thanks,and about 6 months later they came out with their own cartridges,the WSM as they are know.
Well,low and behold,Winchester in their infinite wisdom didn't do any homework,seems that Mr.Jamison had patented the concept/cartridges and every bore diameter.
Anyway,it has been said that Winchester settled the ensuing lawsuit,have heard rumors of around 3M,only Winchester/Jamison/and the attorneys know for sure.
RK

 

[JRose]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

I have it on good authority that Mike voted a straight Democratic ticket last election...

 

[Rob01]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

JRose that's not true. He voted for some socialist candidates too LOL

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outerspace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought that short mag barrels has shorter lives, now I'm hearing otherwise. What gives? </div></div>

Grains of powder and bore size are big contributing factors in barrel life (type of powder too). More powder smaller bore equals less barrel life.

 

[Mike]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEMPILOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I see this site has it's asshole know it all pricks that feel the need to point out the 'my way or the highway' mentality. What a shame.

If someone's goal is to put a .308 175 grain piece of lead down range with the most efficient and compact package available, a short barrel 300 WSM makes sense. Carbon wrap a worked over cut barrel and make it even lighter. I'd love to have a 10lb hunting rifle that can shoot about as well as my 308 distance shooter. The short magnums make that possible. When the ultimate goal is a light tack driver, the weight savings are a cumulative tally and more areas can be cut when considering different cartridges as a base.

Always seems like the guys that talk the loudest and put down ideas with prejudice are the ones that need the most consoling at the range.</div></div>

Funny, many of the guys here that have seen me on the range don't recall needing to console me. Maybe it's because I am there <span style="text-decoration: underline">at</span> the range. But as usual some duechebag wanna be know-nothing comes on board and thinks he's going to be the guy. You're more than welcome to have your opinion as I do mine. But I guess in your vast experience you have a logical argument rather than just running your man pleaser right? Oh wait, you don't, you just want to run your pie hole.

Merry Christmas

 

[ubet]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a 3 shot group @ 300 from my 300wsm, it can outshoot me.

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=69523&Number=753771#Post753771</div></div>

Three shots do not constitute a group. Learn to read the rules before posting a group.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=779314&nt=2&page=1 </div></div>

Oh so sorry great one, so sorry that I didnt read the rules when I posted that picture ONE MONTH before what Lowlight said about 3 shots, I guess no one can live up to you mind reading abilites! But I guess if you would maybe have taken a minute to look into what your were talking about, you would of seen that! So maybe you should be the one to read!

</div></div>

I can see you are sorry. I will forgive your inadequacies. Actually, it was groups like yours that lead to the changing of the rules-groups that we have talked about for YEARS before you even discovered this site.

I do know what I'm talking about. Three shots do not constitute a group. I'll make sure Lowlight is aware of your three shot group. </div></div>

Thats it, run and tattle tale!! So I am inadequate because I own/shoot a short mag and posted a 3 shot group. Well god damn send me to San Quentin! If you have any problems feel free to pm me, I am not gonna shit on the ops thread anymore!

To the op, this is a ford vs chevy debate, some like them some dont, buy one, drive it, if you like it then keep it, if you dont trade if for a long action, only you will know what you like, I like mine and so do a lot of other inadequate people.

 

[catt_tracker]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Wow I haven't been on here since yesterday. This thread sure went to shit fast.

Merry Christmas

 

[Mag 300]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Never knoew this , had the thought that these were truly an "innovation"
Bill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to see scientific proof that a short action is more accurate than a long action. This is speculation at best. Powder burn and case design potentially but again I would like to see specific data. Besides, you cannot shoot the heavier bullets, >190gns with a WSM as effectively as you can a WM. Try shooting a 240gn with a WSM. For those who run the WSM with heavy bullets do you seat that bullet a little far into the case, i.e., 180 Berger in a 7wsm? You don't have bullet seating issues in a LA. And weight? Really, weigh the difference between a Rem LA and a Rem SA and tell me it's more than a few ounces at best.

But more accurate, no. Advantageous, no, Marketing? YES. </div></div>

 

[mempilot]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Funny, many of the guys here that have seen me on the range don't recall needing to console me. Maybe it's because I am there <span style="text-decoration: underline">at</span> the range. But as usual some duechebag wanna be know-nothing comes on board and thinks he's going to be the guy. You're more than welcome to have your opinion as I do mine. But I guess in your vast experience you have a logical argument rather than just running your man pleaser right? Oh wait, you don't, you just want to run your pie hole

Merry Christmas </div></div>

Interesting that you realized I was talking about you since I didn't quote you or mention your name. That tells me something.

I guess this site had no credibility until you joined it, eh? That's a laugh, and I'm sure many yet to join would love that comment of yours about someone new to the site having no credibility. You see, you are the one that seems to have problems with other people's opinions, not I.

If you're going to use the word douche, learn how to spell it. You lose credibility about all things when you can't spell a simple word or figure out how to look it up.

Now, you know nothing about me, so your comments about what I know or what I do have no credence what so ever. It's all kind of sophomoric and chest beating. I feel sorry for you, Mike. Your inadequacies are evident in your posts. While you'll get no bow from me, you can imagine an erect middle finger on my weak hand.

I'd say Merry Christmas, but I'm guessing you are an atheist. Nah. I just wouldn't mean it.

 

[BMG50CAL]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Stay with the WSM line if you can

 

[Mike]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEMPILOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Interesting that you realized I was talking about you since I didn't quote you or mention your name. That tells me something.

I guess this site had no credibility until you joined it, eh? That's a laugh, and I'm sure many yet to join would love that comment of yours about someone new to the site having no credibility. You see, you are the one that seems to have problems with other people's opinions, not I.

If you're going to use the word douche, learn how to spell it. You lose credibility about all things when you can't spell a simple word or figure out how to look it up.

Now, you know nothing about me, so your comments about what I know or what I do have no credence what so ever. It's all kind of sophomoric and chest beating. I feel sorry for you, Mike. Your inadequacies are evident in your posts. While you'll get no bow from me, you can imagine an erect middle finger on my weak hand.

I'd say Merry Christmas, but I'm guessing you are an atheist. Nah. I just wouldn't mean it.</div></div>

Since I one of the only members actively participating in the discussion I came to the logical conclusion that you were speaking to me. That, along with the fact that I am an asshole, makes it easy to recognize your inference.

This site had plenty of credibility prior to my joining and continues to this day. Of course now many new members must sift through the ramblings of hypocritical tools such as yourself. So I don't know you? But you know me right? Credibility lies on those who choose to research and listen rather than play esp "mind games" and try to guess whether or not you know what you're talking about. My actions have proven my credibility, not whether or not I can spell "douche". Your actions have only proven that you are a troll. If you want to express your opinion that is fine, but try to come up with a counterpoint rather than your childish name calling. I guess your education and knowledge prohibit you from expressing a valid argument so you would prefer to bring attention to yourself by flapping your lips.

And thank you for correcting me on the spelling of Douche. Fortunately there are so few individuals on here who warrant the title, I do not get to use it frequently. However from now on I will remember you when I spell the words DOUCHE BAG.

Finally, I can't imagine your erect middle finger. In fact, I imagine your hostility is the result years of frustration stemming from nothing ever becoming erect on your body. Perhaps you can have a doctor write you a prescription for that.

I still wish you a Merry Christmas. This time of year I realize how difficult it must be for people like you; sad and lonely individuals. If you weren't so pathetic I wouldn't feel so sorry for you.

Now why don't you go out and practice? Maybe after you get some experience under your belt you can come back and express an opinion garnered from actually doing something rather than reading about those who do.

Now go along and play with your new Thomas the Train set. I'm sure mommy and daddy made sure you had a great Christmas.

 

[mempilot]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Mike,

You're killing me with your self proclaimed superiority. So sad. And yes, I am lonely today. I'm on duty waiting for that call that I hope never comes. I'm not a troll, but I was giving my opinion in a thread that you came in guns blazing. You felt the need to put people's opinions down, and therefore, I called you out on it.

Merry Christmas to you. This time with sincerity.

 

[donws2]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

I don't see the need for the long Mags with the new powders with most shooters. Target shooters found out along time ago the air space in a case can have a negative effect on accuracy. The better load density the lower extreme speed in velocity. Seems to me the same aurgument was made when the military dropped the 30-06 for the 308. Only a few people are going to use the full potential of a full length mag case. Most will not. I'm shooting a 7WSM with 180 Bergers because I don't need a 7mm mag to reach a mile. I'm running a 300 RUM to get 240 SMK's to the velocity I need for one mile competetion. I would have liked to use a smaller case with less powder but nothing I looked at would do it. When you need a 100 grain case then you need to use one. If your only loading 70 grains of powder then use a case that matches your needs. Technoligy moves on and that's just the way it is. Donald

 

[Mike]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEMPILOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike,

You're killing me with your self proclaimed superiority. So sad. And yes, I am lonely today. I'm on duty waiting for that call that I hope never comes. I'm not a troll, but I was giving my opinion in a thread that you came in guns blazing. You felt the need to put people's opinions down, and therefore, I called you out on it.

Merry Christmas to you. This time with sincerity.</div></div>

MEMPILOT,

I'm not going to argue with you anymore. My point was not to force my opinion on anyone. My point was to show that many of the "myths" of the SA vs. LA debate were just that, myths. If I came off brash that wasn't my intention. However I do feel it is imperative that when a new user asks a question they get a straight answer, especially if I can answer the question drawing from experience. If that answer appears to be bravado or braggadocio again, that is not my intent.

You came in calling me an asshole (or implying me at the very least) based on no prior interaction between us whatsoever. If you were displeased with either what I said or how I said it there were much easier and non-confrontational ways of doing that. Maybe you can try that in the future?

Merry Christmas to you again. I hope your call does not come.

Mike

 

[mempilot]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Mike,

Truce. Merry Christmas. PM sent.

 

[montyb]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

probably had this same argument when the .300 Win Mag came out.

after all what can the .300 Win Mag do that the .300 H&H can't, except fit into a shorter action?

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

Just be glad we got variety. it would suck if all the girls were red heads.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People are too lazy to run a long action. </div></div>




what if you build short mag on a long action?

 

[jasonahull]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike is this ok? A 10 shot group at 300 yards fired by one of those inherently inaccurate belted 300WMs

</div></div>

keep practicing and you'll see those groups shrink in no time.
dont give up

 

[palma]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

People don't discuss light weight hunting rifles much of this forum (most everything here has a huge barrel, A5 stock with sniper fill, etc.), so let's focus on comp guns. The weight savings would be minimal as mentioned above for hunting guns.

The biggest savings for a comp gun would be IMO the loaded ammo. Add the savings from 300 rounds of ammo, 10 AI mags (the long action AI mags are HUGE), and all the other things listed above, and I'll bet the savings would be in pounds. I can't stand carrying any more ammo than is loaded in my gun, much less 300 rounds on my back. Yes, I'm lazy.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

i thought the two main selling points on the short mag,
was 1. they dont head space off of the belt.
2. case efficiency.
if you reload and use fire formed cases i dont think in two
quality rifles a belted mag or a short mag would be that much different in accuracy.
quailty ammo and quailty rifles both will be shooters.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RockKrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually the modern craze for the short cases began when a writer,Rick Jamison began experimemting with the 404 Jeffrey case.
He asked readers to help name the rounds which were the insert caliber/Jamison.( also known as the Short Fat Warthog to some)
Rick went to Winchester to sell the idea,they said no thanks,and about 6 months later they came out with their own cartridges,the WSM as they are know.
Well,low and behold,Winchester in their infinite wisdom didn't do any homework,seems that Mr.Jamison had patented the concept/cartridges and every bore diameter.
Anyway,it has been said that Winchester settled the ensuing lawsuit,have heard rumors of around 3M,only Winchester/Jamison/and the attorneys know for sure.
RK </div></div>

I have missed his writing at Shooting Times and wondered what became of him. Some writers move around and turm up elsewhere. Like John Barsness, formerly at Rifle/Handloader/Successful Hunter, I always felt like I was reading quality information, unlike the "If I do my part" horseshit one reads entirely too often in Gun World or other advertising platforms.

As it applies to this thread, the 300 Savage, developed back in 1921 or so, was considered a short fat .30 cal for many of the same reasons the new short magnums are now considered superior. Personally, I agree that losing 20 pounds of holiday flab would feel a lot better than dropping $2000.00 for a 5.5 pound NULA rifle. But then I'm a cheap bastard who needs to lose some weight!

 

[RockKrawler]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RockKrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually the modern craze for the short cases began when a writer,Rick Jamison began experimemting with the 404 Jeffrey case.
He asked readers to help name the rounds which were the insert caliber/Jamison.( also known as the Short Fat Warthog to some)
Rick went to Winchester to sell the idea,they said no thanks,and about 6 months later they came out with their own cartridges,the WSM as they are know.
Well,low and behold,Winchester in their infinite wisdom didn't do any homework,seems that Mr.Jamison had patented the concept/cartridges and every bore diameter.
Anyway,it has been said that Winchester settled the ensuing lawsuit,have heard rumors of around 3M,only Winchester/Jamison/and the attorneys know for sure.
RK </div></div>

I have missed his writing at Shooting Times and wondered what became of him. Some writers move around and turm up elsewhere. Like John Barsness, formerly at Rifle/Handloader/Successful Hunter, I always felt like I was reading quality information, unlike the "If I do my part" horseshit one reads entirely too often in Gun World or other advertising platforms.

As it applies to this thread, the 300 Savage, developed back in 1921 or so, was considered a short fat .30 cal for many of the same reasons the new short magnums are now considered superior. Personally, I agree that losing 20 pounds of holiday flab would feel a lot better than dropping $2000.00 for a 5.5 pound NULA rifle. But then I'm a cheap bastard who needs to lose some weight! </div></div>


Found this little snipet of info.
May help answer your question at Rick Jamison.
Dennis

Rick Jamison, Gun Writer, Gone but not forgotton

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•From: xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx
•Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 03:08:27 +0000 (UTC)

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If some of you are wondering why quite some time ago Rick Jameson
disappeared from the gun rags it had to do with a big lawsuit that he
won against Winchester for stealing his developmental short magnum
cartridges. Over the years the gun industry got so used to stealing
peoples wildcat cartridges that they began to think it was their
right. It is heavily rumored that was what led to Winchester closing
up after the lawsuit was over.

Rick is now personal non grata with the gun magazines. It's a shame
as he stood head and shoulders above most of the other lackeys who
these days seem to attempt to write for the gun rags.

Rick's article on the Mauser 98 rifle in Shooting Times Magazine some
years back was a real classic. Count yourself lucky if you have copy
as such writing is seldom seen these days and will probably never be
seen again. Rick's experiments in ballistics and cartridges was
fascinating and informative to say the least.

Yes, as one wise man once said after the assassination of one of the
most popular of U.S. Presidents. "They always kill the good ones" and
with good gun writers , they always get rid of them.

Let us hope that Mark Twain's famous statement, "The reports of my
untimely demise were highly exaggerated" comes to pass.

 

[montyb]

Re: What is the purpose of a short magnum?

here is a short mag cartridge that pre-dates rick's patent, yet still infringes

so who is really "stealing"? did rick steal Lazzeroni's concept?

it seems so to me.