What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

c1steve

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What is the problem with 7mm bullets? Many persons use .260 and .308, but rarely do I hear of someone using 7mm. I plan to have GAP build me a Rock in 7mm-08. Sort of an all around rifle, with long distance capability.

I would like to use 168 grain Bergers. Are they dogs, do they work well, does the -08 have enough oomph to push them fast enough?

I am not excited about the .260 because of shorter barrel life, among other things.

-Steve
 

Triggerhappy

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    Nothing is wrong with 7mm I shoot a 284 win. with 162gr. A-Max and love it. It beats my 260 out past 600yds all day a 7-08 may not due to the lesser velocity. I'm getting 2935fps out of a 26" Lothar/Walther barrel, the only down fall to the 284 win. is recoil. If you do try an '08 give the A-Max a try.
     

    SavageStag

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    I would have to say there is a decent 7mm following on this site, especially the WSM. I have one being built by UGSW right now. Also, take a look at the B.C. of the Bergers and A-Max's the are by no means doggy.
     

    Advokaten

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    Nothing,


    168/180 grains Berger VLD are in kind next to a 338 LM out to about 1300 meters so it´s a in the sorts of shooting being done,

    under 1 k there is no need for a 7 mm unless we are talking big game hunting.

    Best regards Chris
     

    m1k3

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    It took a little longer to find the load for my 7mm-08 than my Savage 308 but once I found it, all was good.

    P1030174.JPG


    Shoots sub MOA.

    Here's the best part of its accuracy and "ease of use". I let my brother-in-law, father-in-law, a great aunt and uncle on their side of the family shoot it at 371 yards. All hit the 8" steel plate on the first shot. The aunt weighed maybe 120lbs, was scared to sit near it, and after a couple of quick lessons, she hit it on her first shot. Its a very forgiving rifle and load.

    As far as ballistics, I load 150MK with 39gr of RL15 for a load close to my 308 shooting 168. Its close but maybe a little better. I have another load of 41.1gr of RL15 and it surpasses my 308 load easily. It just takes some work to get it there. Not as much info or help on the 308 but its fully capable of exceeding the 308.

    I will admit that my next build will likely be a 260 though. Just to try it out.
    wink.gif



    Mike
     

    c1steve

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    Good to hear there is no problem. Relatively soon I should have my own 7mm-08 and will see what it will do over time.

    I just want it to shoot well up to about 800 yards. Would rather not go to a 7mm magnum nor to a .260.
     

    J-Hon

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    They are terrible. Won't shoot in any rifle. Completely fall straight down @ 700 yards.


    Whatever you do, stay away from Midway blem sales, 162 AMAX's, and 120TSX's.
     

    bohem

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Hon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Whatever you do, stay away from Midway blem sales, 162 AMAX's, and 120TSX's. </div></div>

    Good idea... more for me...err .. um.. I mean... I'll buy up all the blems so nobody gets stuck with those crappy bullets.
     

    Swift One

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    I am shooting a customized Steven 7mm-08. Using 150gr SMKs and 40.6gr of Varget. Im new to the LR game but im doing good out to 400yds with them. Between 2-3" grps. I'm not doing so hot at the 500yd mark, but I am serously suspecting its the novice shooter. I just learned about verticle groups checking so in all fairness to my rig, I might be doing better at 500 than im giving myself credit for. The horizontal spread is what was discouraging me. But my inexperience to judging wind could be it.

    I like the 7mm-08 and the 7mm Mag. I think that 7mm bullets have great ballistics.
     

    Staghead556

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    not really sure what dude is talking about shooting an 8 inch target at 371 ..sheww I regularly hit a clay pigeon at 300 with a. 223 and iron sights..anyways 7mm is the way to go fo sho!! currently doing one myself but not '08...mag
     

    Wild_Bill

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    i believe the 7mm is far superior to any 30 cal just look at the balistics of any 175-180gr 7mm projectile and try to match them with a 30 cal you have to get a 240gr projectile and then launch it at the same velocity to have the same balistic performance the only thing the 30 cal has an advantage with is if you are driving the super heavy ones at the same velocity they have more energy but then you would be better off with a 338.

    Dont dismiss the 168gr Sierra MatchKings either. I shoot a 7mm Rem SAUM for comps to 1500 yards and also have used a 284win extensivly they are amasing. But in a 7mm08 the best projectile if it shoots for you is the 162gr A Max because it is not to heavy with a high BC. the 168gr Berger is also very good and the 168gr MatchKings are also very good and have a much higher BC that advertised by Sierra.

    Start with the A Max and if it shoots stop there if you dont have sucess try the Sierra and Berger but dont bother with the 175-180's they work better in a larger case.

    Also dont by into the crap that there are only a few bullets to chose from if you have one that works that is all you need.
     

    Bacarrat

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    The 162gr AMAX at 3100+FPS in a 7 magnum would be hard to beat.
     

    c1steve

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    This all sounds promising. I plan to stick with my plans for a 7mm-08 but keep the barrel length longish. Probably 24". Thanks for the advice.

    I am going to order a GAP Rock that should be an excellent all around rifle. It will also be light enough that I could should silhouette.

    -Steve
     

    m1k3

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    I'll check what velocities I was getting but I think with 39.0gr of RL15 it was around 2690 FPS at 2000ft elevation. The 41.1gr load was getting 2815 or so with the 150MK. I have also worked up a great load for the 100gr HP from sierra. I haven't clocked it yet but its screaming!

    The Douglas barrel on mine is also 24" to the crown but the SSS brake adds another 2" or so. I don't think that should affect velocity much.

    I tried the 162 Amax's but never could get a stable reliable load for them. It was much much easier to develop a load for the matchkings. I experienced the same thing in my .243 and .308. I think they are just more forgiving.

    Do a search for other 7mm-08 in here, someone built one a while back with a 20" and it worked well.

    To the guy that didn't understand what I was saying with my previous post, the rifle shoots well. The load I've developed is an accurate load. And the 7mm-08 is comfortable to shoot for novices.
     

    dontstrokeme

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    The 7mm-08 is a very good midrange round. I have run mine out to 1160 yards so far....and as such any lack of hits is my part for sure.

    18" is plenty of barrel also. I get 2600fps with 162gr Amax and IMR4064....I have 5lb of RL17 to try soon also.

    I say go for it and then you can talk shit on all the "308Win is the best ever" guys!!!
    laugh.gif



    100_4244.jpg
     

    m1k3

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    That's the gun I was thinking of!

    I still love the way that looks. All business. Very nice sir.

    I had a 26" McGowen before I switched over to this Douglas barrel and was really wanting to go shorter. The barrel was used and sold as a 24" which it is. The brake gets back up to 26" though. The next one, I'll chamber and thread myself, will likely be 20-21".

    Mike
     

    cdopson

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    I picked up a 7wsm from a Hide member. My first 7mm rifle. The thing is a laser. I was always a 30 fan and still am but I'll definately go for another 7 of some sort down the road.
     

    c1steve

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JLK bullets

    168gr 7mm BC .690
    180gr 7mm BC .735

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 7mm.</div></div>

    JWV,
    Great looking bullets. Do you have any trouble with LOA, as in fitting in the magazine or feeding?

    s
     

    willsnipe

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c1steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not excited about the .260 because of shorter barrel life, among other things. </div></div>

    I too am a HUGE proponant of 7-08 as an all around cartridge, and there is NOTHING wrong with 7mm bullets, but every time I see something like this said it amazes me.

    You're telling me there's a measurable difference in barrel life (or anything else for that matter) shooting a bullet .020" smaller from the same case? There is much more difference in the various twist rates available in both calibers. I could probably find statistics that show more variation from one barrel to the next in the same lot.

    Go shoot it and ENJOY! There's no bad answer here. My reccomendation is to find what works best in your rifle, and spend time on the range, in lieu of the net. That's where you'll find what works and what doesn't.
     

    GRIM

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    A buddy of mine asked me what I thought the ultimate sniping type rig was - I told him a 7mm SAUM shooting the 162 grain AMAX. He built one and said he's extremely happy with it. I guess the only downside to it is recoil as compared to a 260 or similar barrel burner.
     

    bward

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    I was reading on another forum, I think Long Range Hunting, that there was a small company introducing a 7mm bullet with a BC greater than 1. It was a few weeks ago but I think they were talking about pushing it with a 7mmSTW. Anyone know what the bullet they were talking about was?
     

    NRF

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    THAT ISN'T POSSIBLE ! Unless your talking .100 they make a .17 cal with that B.C.

    1 There aren't magic bullets! Although some are better than others for a particular purpose.
    2 Divide the range at which someone claims to have shot their deer by 4 to get the real range.LOL
    3 Always get as close as possible.
    4 Don't believe manufacturer's claims.
    5 Velocity erodes, mass doesn't
    6 In the battle between velocity and accuracy, accuracy always wins.
    7 Inconsequential increments are meaningless.
    8 Most gun writers are pathological liars.
     

    BobinNC

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NF41780</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THAT ISN'T POSSIBLE ! Unless your talking .100 they make a .17 cal with that B.C.

    1 There aren't magic bullets! Although some are better than others for a particular purpose. <span style="color: #FF0000">No magic bullets? Guess you never had the clap....</span>
    2 Divide the range at which someone claims to have shot their deer by 4 to get the real range.LOL <span style="color: #FF0000">Come on everybody knows you actually divide the range by 3.478, except in the Southern Hemisphere</span>
    3 Always get as close as possible. <span style="color: #FF0000">You've never seen Shankster's girlfriends have you? Trust me you don't want to get close</span>
    4 Don't believe manufacturer's claims. <span style="color: #FF0000">You can trust, but always verify</span>
    5 Velocity erodes, mass doesn't <span style="color: #FF0000">Except when firing a 40 grain bullet, out of a 220 Swift, @ 4000 FPS+ In that case the mass disappears leaving a only a blue trail.....</span>
    6 In the battle between velocity and accuracy, accuracy always wins.<span style="color: #FF0000"> Except when your bullet does not reach the target...</span>
    7 Inconsequential increments are meaningless. <span style="color: #FF0000">Except when loading Bullseye powder, it gives inconsequential increments a whole new meaning.</span>
    8 Most gun writers are pathological liars. <span style="color: #FF0000"> You got me there</span></div></div>

    Not trying to poke fun at you, but just an illustration that the only absolutes are death and taxes.......

    Bob
     

    USMCj

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    7MM sucks, dont shoot 7MM!!! Finding bullets is hard enough, we dont need any more people switching to the 7.
     

    jasonZ

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    Dunno about all the stuff above here, but I've shot a 7Rem Mag for years and I can tell you that you cannot find factory ammo that has the ballistics of a 7mag! As for long range, I haven't found a target that was to far out yet. Now before you guys start hammering me on that statement. I am not a long range shooter. I use my rifle for hunting mostly. I've taken game out to 500yds with it and it has always dropped em in their tracks.
    Know i've been told that a 7mag will go out to 1000 and beyond. I have no idea, but if I ever had a place close enough to go, I'd sure like to find out!
     

    Metalhead0483

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7MM sucks, dont shoot 7MM!!! Finding bullets is hard enough, we dont need any more people switching to the 7. </div></div>

    Too true...
    cry.gif


    Seriously though, there are some great rounds based on a 7mm bullet. I like the 7mm-08 myself and I'm seriously thinking about a 7mm WSM for my next build.
     

    sotexhill

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    In the same cartridge case, in relation to the bore, a 243 Winchester has more powder than a 260 Remington, which has more powder than a 7mm-08, which has more powder than a 308 Winchester, which has more powder than a 338 Federal, which has more powder than a 358 Winchester. All else equal, the throat life seems to be proportional to the amount of powder being burned through it in a grains of powder per square inch of throat surface. With full pressure loads, one might expect the barrel life to vary inversely with the powder to bore ratio. Of course, one can elect not to load up to full pressure.

    I have 308 Win and 223 Remington caliber rifles because when I got started thirty years ago, the 7-08 and 260 Remington didn't exist. The 7x57 Mauser and 6.5x55 Swedish would not fit in a short Remington action. The 6.5x55 Swedish didn't fit easily obtained stripper clips. 308 Lake City match brass and 308 bullets were more readily available and cheaper than alternatives except for the 223.

    Today, the 260 Remington and 7-08 are available, and it is too bad that the US pushed NATO into the 7.62 NATO fifty-five years ago. I still have enough 223 and 308 components to last the rest of my life. I would have been happier if they were 6.5 or 7mm based.

    FWIW and YMMV.
     

    bohem

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JLK bullets

    168gr 7mm BC .690
    180gr 7mm BC .735

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 7mm. </div></div>


    This data is not real, it's very optimistic theoretical calculated values. Real values for the 180 are akin to the Berger 180 VLD according to Bryan Litz's tests.

    In an effort to avoid giving away all the data he worked out in his book, I'll refrain from quoting directly but the 162 Amax, 168 and 180 JLK's and 175 SMK's are all very far off. Some as much as 75 points
     

    c1steve

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    Re: What is wrong with 7mm bullets?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JLK bullets

    168gr 7mm BC .690
    180gr 7mm BC .735

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 7mm. </div></div>


    This data is not real, it's very optimistic theoretical calculated values. Real values for the 180 are akin to the Berger 180 VLD according to Bryan Litz's tests.

    In an effort to avoid giving away all the data he worked out in his book, I'll refrain from quoting directly but the 162 Amax, 168 and 180 JLK's and 175 SMK's are all very far off. Some as much as 75 points </div></div>

    That makes sense, as they look pretty much identical. Look at this photo from 6mmbr.com:
    7mmbullsx300.jpg