This is why you buy a basic M4 and decide what you want to change about it. You're not talking about a huge savings $25 for a set of plastic hand guards and $25 for a standard fire control group as that's what people typically change first. The benefit to the factory M4 is you have a complete factory rifle that if there's anything wrong with it's the manufacturers problem. Building your own you are the quality control and most people that don't know what they want in a AR also don't know how to diagnose it if their Franken gun doesn't run right.
- Thread starter Seuss
- Start date
This is why you buy a basic M4 and decide what you want to change about it. You're not talking about a huge savings $25 for a set of plastic hand guards and $25 for a standard fire control group as that's what people typically change first. The benefit to the factory M4 is you have a complete factory rifle that if there's anything wrong with it's the manufacturers problem. Building your own you are the quality control and most people that don't know what they want in a AR also don't know how to diagnose it if their Franken gun doesn't run right.
My post ^^^^^, i agree with franken guns and home built projects.
colt 6920. More than enough for the boy, easy to resale and doesn't break the bank
At the end of the day for the money and what you get, you cant' beat the price or product.
Yes you can, in fact you can get a superior product for less.
RRA is known shit with a long history of putting out defective rifles.
Owned a couple over the years and have seen hundreds of them used in comps and on various ranges mil and civilian.
I would rather have a DPMS than RRA and that is not saying much. Life is too short to buy shitty guns.
Let me edit to clarify. For most people, they consider Bushmaster, DPMS, OLY, RRA, ect to be average/mediocre. I consider them to be substandard. Colt is my average, it is the baseline. It is the absolute lowest quality that I accept. The other companies cut too many corners, use substandard parts, use the wrong materials, do not make the parts to standard spec, do not assemble the rifles correctly, do not QC their guns. As a result, you see a high higher rate of problems than better quality guns. Considering you can get a Colt for $900, there is no reason whatsoever to waste time and money on inferior products. There are long histories behind all of these companies and those of us that have been tuned into the industry, know/read/seen most of them.
One of the best source of information is Class AAR's. Pat Rogers, Vickers, ect all post AAR's and so do many of the students. They shoot in enough vollume that they know what works and what fails. The same reason XD pistols are hunks of shit is the same reason RRA guns are hunks of shit. They are substandard. For the same reason you choose a glock over a XD, you choose a colt over an RRA. Price is about the same, but quality is not even close.
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Interesting how things change. I still can't bring myself to buy a Colt because of the large pin/receiver block nonsense they pulled years ago. I guess I should get over it.
Back when I was a kid, and in my early 20's, I bought into the hype published in gun rags, where we heard things like:
"Eagle Arms Builds a better AR15"
"Bushmaster Builds a better AR15"
"RRA has better receiver fit, therefore they are superior to Colt."
What I learned the hard way is that none of the above were even close to following (nor aware of) the TDP for the M16A1, let alone the M4. A Colt Model 603 (M16A1) is one of the most well-built, tested, bug-ironed out rifles in the world, and the TDP was accessible since GM made them under licensed contract during Vietnam. Maybe not legal to be distributed outside contractors, but accessible for any enterprising company that wanted to do it right.
What you had, in the 1980's, were several companies that saw the market potential, and knew a little bit about one or two aspects of barrel making, receiver sourcing, and small parts sourcing, so they started developing supply channels for parts that look kinda like AR15 and M16 parts, but most of the critical ones were nothing of the sort, and even the furniture appeared to be recycled model airplane plastics that will melt on you in any amount of decent volume shooting.
Not even the detents and springs are of a quality that will hold up to cold weather, humidity, or shooting in volume, and I personally experienced that with a RRA 16" MLGS carbine in the Arctic during my first high volume extreme cold weather training course that I ran. After my Gen I Magpul MIAD fragmented in the cold and repetitive CQM drills with a can on the end of the barrel, I went to the barracks to replace it with a spare grip I had. When the selector detent came out, it was oxidizing before my eyes...like a bubbly science project in a test tube...no really. I gained a new appreciation for a standard Colt glass nylon/polymer pistol grip (with larger swell on it than the vismod market kicks out), Colt small parts, and started asking myself, "If just these peripheral parts that I took for granted were as good or better, but cleary are not, what other corners have been cut?"
The answer is every short cut they can get away with and still sell guns to unsuspecting customers who read an awesome review about their "sub-MOA sharpshooter" in the latest issue of Uber Tactical Weapons at the grocery store.
Chamber off-centric to the bore? Who gives a rats rear end.
Lower standard CMV 4140 barrel steel? No problem, Joe Q. will never know.
Front Sight Base canted and pinned with straight pins? Sucks to be you
Ejector, extractor, recoil, detent, hammer, trigger, J-pin, bolt catch, ejection port, buffer retainer, disconnector, and sight springs made from el cheapo spring wire? Who cares? We have articles that say the DEA is ordering our rifles by the bushel, and they chose them over Colt, so suckers will line up like kids and the candy man.
Bolts made from garbage 8620 steel with no certs on it that even look like the TDP? They're only plinking with them anyway, so increase margins. Certs cost money, and we can't get Carpenter 158 steel for the bolts unless we order in $100,000 minimums anyway. Who cares...next
Carrier keys aren't chromed inside, and we attach them with fasteners made in Taiwan, using a steel that is harder than the TDP calls for? Joe blow will never notice anyway, he's just a lowly customer. Let it shred the crap out of his 6061 charge handle and upper receiver.
Receivers made from soft 6061 Aluminum so our tool time is extended significantly, quickly anodized to where the cathode and anode don't have enough time to facilitate the surface hardening deep enough to meet the call outs in the TDP? Nobody will know, unless they bend or snap an upper removing the barrel with one of those inserts made by DPMS, and that's on them anyway.
Lower parts, like the trigger, hammer, and disconnector made from fecal steel, soft, pitted, and MIM'd by the cheapest place we could find? Looks good enough, crank 'em out by the tens of thousands. Heck, we'll use that same model for our 2-stage triggers too, and make a killing in the margins!
Extension tubes that have been extruded from 6061, then had a cap welded to the rear of the tube, then finish ground, tumbled, and anodized to look like one piece? It's cheaper than drop forging from 7075 T6 using one piece of quality, harder aluminum like the TDP calls for, and nobody will notice anyway. After all, it looks the same.
Shall I go on?
"Eagle Arms Builds a better AR15"
"Bushmaster Builds a better AR15"
"RRA has better receiver fit, therefore they are superior to Colt."
What I learned the hard way is that none of the above were even close to following (nor aware of) the TDP for the M16A1, let alone the M4. A Colt Model 603 (M16A1) is one of the most well-built, tested, bug-ironed out rifles in the world, and the TDP was accessible since GM made them under licensed contract during Vietnam. Maybe not legal to be distributed outside contractors, but accessible for any enterprising company that wanted to do it right.
What you had, in the 1980's, were several companies that saw the market potential, and knew a little bit about one or two aspects of barrel making, receiver sourcing, and small parts sourcing, so they started developing supply channels for parts that look kinda like AR15 and M16 parts, but most of the critical ones were nothing of the sort, and even the furniture appeared to be recycled model airplane plastics that will melt on you in any amount of decent volume shooting.
Not even the detents and springs are of a quality that will hold up to cold weather, humidity, or shooting in volume, and I personally experienced that with a RRA 16" MLGS carbine in the Arctic during my first high volume extreme cold weather training course that I ran. After my Gen I Magpul MIAD fragmented in the cold and repetitive CQM drills with a can on the end of the barrel, I went to the barracks to replace it with a spare grip I had. When the selector detent came out, it was oxidizing before my eyes...like a bubbly science project in a test tube...no really. I gained a new appreciation for a standard Colt glass nylon/polymer pistol grip (with larger swell on it than the vismod market kicks out), Colt small parts, and started asking myself, "If just these peripheral parts that I took for granted were as good or better, but cleary are not, what other corners have been cut?"
The answer is every short cut they can get away with and still sell guns to unsuspecting customers who read an awesome review about their "sub-MOA sharpshooter" in the latest issue of Uber Tactical Weapons at the grocery store.
Chamber off-centric to the bore? Who gives a rats rear end.
Lower standard CMV 4140 barrel steel? No problem, Joe Q. will never know.
Front Sight Base canted and pinned with straight pins? Sucks to be you
Ejector, extractor, recoil, detent, hammer, trigger, J-pin, bolt catch, ejection port, buffer retainer, disconnector, and sight springs made from el cheapo spring wire? Who cares? We have articles that say the DEA is ordering our rifles by the bushel, and they chose them over Colt, so suckers will line up like kids and the candy man.
Bolts made from garbage 8620 steel with no certs on it that even look like the TDP? They're only plinking with them anyway, so increase margins. Certs cost money, and we can't get Carpenter 158 steel for the bolts unless we order in $100,000 minimums anyway. Who cares...next
Carrier keys aren't chromed inside, and we attach them with fasteners made in Taiwan, using a steel that is harder than the TDP calls for? Joe blow will never notice anyway, he's just a lowly customer. Let it shred the crap out of his 6061 charge handle and upper receiver.
Receivers made from soft 6061 Aluminum so our tool time is extended significantly, quickly anodized to where the cathode and anode don't have enough time to facilitate the surface hardening deep enough to meet the call outs in the TDP? Nobody will know, unless they bend or snap an upper removing the barrel with one of those inserts made by DPMS, and that's on them anyway.
Lower parts, like the trigger, hammer, and disconnector made from fecal steel, soft, pitted, and MIM'd by the cheapest place we could find? Looks good enough, crank 'em out by the tens of thousands. Heck, we'll use that same model for our 2-stage triggers too, and make a killing in the margins!
Extension tubes that have been extruded from 6061, then had a cap welded to the rear of the tube, then finish ground, tumbled, and anodized to look like one piece? It's cheaper than drop forging from 7075 T6 using one piece of quality, harder aluminum like the TDP calls for, and nobody will notice anyway. After all, it looks the same.
Shall I go on?
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LRRPF52, I started to make a post similar to yours but figure it'll fall on deaf ears. So long as it's pretty and accurate with good marketing, brand loyalty will be strong.
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Actually, yes. What's the state of the civilian market today? The market for AR's is a lot bigger than it was in the 80's. I would imagine there is less variance from vendor to vendor today than back then, but I have no idea.
Garbage 6061 charge handles were another big thing. What I'm seeing now is new comers entering the market in the past 10 years, in what I call the post Clinton AWB expiration era, which goes up to Sandy Hook, covering a period from 2004-2012, followed by the post-SH era, which is an abortion of epic proportions.
The history of the civilian market is broken down into several generations first off, and these are what I documented in a very detailed market analysis for my capstone project in my Business Management Degree. Off the top of my head:
* January 2nd, 1964 to 1982: The Colt Model R6000 was introduced to the market, known as the Colt SP-1. This early model had a lot of original parts common with the Colt 601, and there are variations. The Colt SP-1 evolved along with the design changes that were incorporated into the Model 603(M16A1) military rifle over the years, minus the forward assist, while retaining different upper receiver, lower receiver, and fire control components that Colt had changed for the civilian market. They are actually very well-built rifles with solid parts made to the TDP in terms of materials sourcing, certs, assembly methods, while deviating from M16-specific parts.
* 1982-1988: Here is where we saw some of the after market parts start to filter into the market, GM Hydramatic stuff, Quality Parts/Bushmaster, Eagle Arms, Olympic Arms, and home builds from all sorts of weird places, Shotgun News ads, gun shows, etc. The first after market source of different furniture designs that I'm aware of was Lone Star Ordnance, with the stow-away pistol grip, ribbed A2-ish handguards, and then Choate with their buttstocks. After market plastic carbine stock kits were horrendous for the most part, with purple hues, soft, toyish-looking construction. There was a lot of frankengun crap on the market for those who were looking, while you could find some really nice Colt SP-1 and Sporter II rifles and carbines new on gun shelves for between $370 to $635 in that date range.
* 1988 to 1994: This is where Bushmaster and Panther Arms/DPMS really started rising up in the industry. Bushmasters started to become the go-to AR15's for many people after they received rave reviews in Soldier of Fortune, and were prominently displayed in the gun buyer rags. RSR, Accusport, and Ellett Brothers started carrying them and shipping to gun shops across the land, and CA was huge until the CA AWB after the Patrick Purdy school yard shooting. In the early 1990's, large frame AR's chambered in 7.62 NATO were manufactured again for the first time since the original Armalite AR10's from the 1950's and 1960's, with Eugene Stoner's new SR25 hitting the shelves first from Knight's Armament Corporation, followed by Eagle Arms' EA-10, which was later re-branded with the Armalite name. Both went on to become highly successful, and Eagle increased their EA15 market as well.
Colt broke a major barrier that went largely unnoticed by customers, but not several key people in the industry, and that was the development and distribution of the Colt AR15 7.62x39 Sporter II. This was to have consequences for the market that a lot of people could not grasp at the time.
* 1994-2004: Clinton AWB really had the opposite effect on the industry, where manufacturers jumped to meet the demand once the Congress passed the Clinton AWB. They did this by supplying tons of rifles without flash hiders, bayonet lugs, or telescoping stocks, and customers wizened up as to the game by buying them en masse, and having muzzle breaks installed if they wanted, using fixed telestocks, and basically moving forward. Many people who would have never purchased an AR15 did so, and Bushmaster, DPMS, and RRA really rose as the main manufacturers of look-alike models of the AR15, while pushing a major advertising campaign touting the benefits of their products. You could still buy Complete Colt uppers that were very high quality and commanded top dollar, in addition to complete neutered Colt rifles and carbines. Several small shops emerged during this era focusing on their specialty of billet receivers, high-end barrels, etc.
* Quality during that era with Bushmaster started out fairly decent, but as demand increased, things like BCG assembly took a dive, and a lot of guns had carrier keys that would come loose in high volume shooting sessions, which were becoming more and more popular with the rise of 3-gun, contractor demands for fleet weapons, and training courses put on by experienced and inexperienced entrepreneurs. At the tail end of this 1994-2004 period, we had 9/11, which was basically a watershed for the firearms industry. Not only were numerous contractors demanding guns now, but every Billy Bob, returning soldier, and gun rag consumer had to have one or 5 of them, and by stars, they had to have the bestest, most spechulist forcesist AR15's of them all, complete with KAC rails or look alikes, vertical grips, Chinese red dots, lasers, phone cord pressure switches, bipods, 3-rail rail mounts to go on top of your rails....you get the picture.
* DPMS soon jumped on the .308 bandwagon, introducing an economy-grade 6061 receiver set rifle entitled the LR-308, with a translucent, ban-compliant 10rd magazine that would lose shavings with every cycle of the BCG, but was typically very accurate for a gun off the shelf. RRA licensed their .308 design to Bushmaster, calling it the BAR-10 and ran on FAL mags, which went through enough teething issues to be quickly discontinued, only to be released again by a more capable RRA as their LAR-8.
* Most importantly, we saw the addition of several new cartridges that were stuffed into the AR15 that took away the hunting barrier for many people. The .50 Beowulf, 6.5 Grendel, and 6.8 SPC emerged by 2004, creating a new wave of high performance cartridges that fit nicely in the popular AR15, opening up all kinds of doors for shooters who would never own an AR15, or use one for their common purposes because of what they viewed as an inferior chambering with the .223 Remington/5.56 NATO.
2004-2012: Post-ban, pre-SH era. Here is where the market really expanded in the wake of 9/11 and the end of the Clinton AWB, which had a 10-year limit to it. The wars were raging strong, and appetites for AR15's and AR10's displaced the common hunting rifle trends that are tracked by NSSF and the ATF quarterly, as well as annually. Trends in ammunition consumption and rifle purchases went into an upward spiral, which were fueled even further with the election of a certain junior Senator to the White House with an aggressive anti-gun track record.
Firearms, ammunition, and accessories sales surged so much, that venture capitalists started buying into the industry, even merging major auto financing with national grocery chain stores, as well as public teacher retirement plans. Several major AR15 and rifle-maker names were bought and placed under the same corporate ownership, including Remington, Bushmaster, DPMS, and Marlin. This really created a first in the American firearms industry history, with a mega company swallowing several huge and historical brands, in addition to 2 of the largest AR15 manufacturers in the world.
* The caliber variation market caught on with a lot of traction, resulting in not only several ammunition manufacturers supporting them, but more cartridges developed to fit in the AR15 that would be well-suited to hunting.
The industry was really at its peak in terms of being able to crank out Bushmaster and DPMS-grade rifles that could get through your plinking sessions of maybe a few boxes of ammo before problems arose, but then something terrible happened.
* The Post Sandy Hook Era: December 14, 2012. A strange kid reportedly kills 20 children and 6 adults with an AR15, and the strained market goes insane. Along the past 2 generations, several small shops have risen to be sought after AR15 builders with various degrees of specialization or economy pricing, to include those that only made upper receiver groups and sold other parts for DIY type customers. This era also coincides with a time when some of the industry's best engineers, machinists, shop foremen, and technicians (mostly baby boomers), are retiring to go home and chill for their remaining years, if the acetone, blast media, metal shavings, and smoking habits haven't claimed their lives earlier.
We basically had a perfect storm where demand was beyond unprecedented, the industry was having a very difficult time meeting the unpredictable demands of a wide range of customers, and the inherent design of the AR15 family of weapons is such that you can buy critical parts out from the supply chain from up and coming shops who don't have the same clout as a venture capitalist does. Compounded with the lack of well-educated new employees who are part of the excessively THC blood content "I deserve/want it now for nothing." generation, and don't expect much in terms of quality control.
Slap a nice coat of Cerakote on the rifle, throw in an uber tactical charge handle, melonite the barrel, CNC engrave some skulls in it, and you are well on your way to the $2000 plus garbage rifle market, never mind springs, detents, MIM'd LPK's, certs on barrel extensions or bolts, extractors, steel pedigrees, etc. Add your company's unique rail handguard, or carbon fiber tube, and you are cooking with crisco. The ammunition industry is showing signs of the wheels falling off as well in the post-SH era, with demands so high that they could literally afford to care less what primers, powder charges, and loads they spit out the door, made even worse by gas-operated AR15's and AR10's that have very specific pressure curves to run the systems reliably and safely.
Despite all of this, a few solid industry pillars continue to hold true to their core values and visions.
Colt, BCM, DD, Alexander Arms, LMT, and JP come to mind. I haven't purchased a complete AR15 off the shelf since 1997 or 1998, and I'm a controlled panic buyer club member since the post Patrick Purdy school yard shooting in Stockton, CA, 1989.
The history of the civilian market is broken down into several generations first off, and these are what I documented in a very detailed market analysis for my capstone project in my Business Management Degree. Off the top of my head:
* January 2nd, 1964 to 1982: The Colt Model R6000 was introduced to the market, known as the Colt SP-1. This early model had a lot of original parts common with the Colt 601, and there are variations. The Colt SP-1 evolved along with the design changes that were incorporated into the Model 603(M16A1) military rifle over the years, minus the forward assist, while retaining different upper receiver, lower receiver, and fire control components that Colt had changed for the civilian market. They are actually very well-built rifles with solid parts made to the TDP in terms of materials sourcing, certs, assembly methods, while deviating from M16-specific parts.
* 1982-1988: Here is where we saw some of the after market parts start to filter into the market, GM Hydramatic stuff, Quality Parts/Bushmaster, Eagle Arms, Olympic Arms, and home builds from all sorts of weird places, Shotgun News ads, gun shows, etc. The first after market source of different furniture designs that I'm aware of was Lone Star Ordnance, with the stow-away pistol grip, ribbed A2-ish handguards, and then Choate with their buttstocks. After market plastic carbine stock kits were horrendous for the most part, with purple hues, soft, toyish-looking construction. There was a lot of frankengun crap on the market for those who were looking, while you could find some really nice Colt SP-1 and Sporter II rifles and carbines new on gun shelves for between $370 to $635 in that date range.
* 1988 to 1994: This is where Bushmaster and Panther Arms/DPMS really started rising up in the industry. Bushmasters started to become the go-to AR15's for many people after they received rave reviews in Soldier of Fortune, and were prominently displayed in the gun buyer rags. RSR, Accusport, and Ellett Brothers started carrying them and shipping to gun shops across the land, and CA was huge until the CA AWB after the Patrick Purdy school yard shooting. In the early 1990's, large frame AR's chambered in 7.62 NATO were manufactured again for the first time since the original Armalite AR10's from the 1950's and 1960's, with Eugene Stoner's new SR25 hitting the shelves first from Knight's Armament Corporation, followed by Eagle Arms' EA-10, which was later re-branded with the Armalite name. Both went on to become highly successful, and Eagle increased their EA15 market as well.
Colt broke a major barrier that went largely unnoticed by customers, but not several key people in the industry, and that was the development and distribution of the Colt AR15 7.62x39 Sporter II. This was to have consequences for the market that a lot of people could not grasp at the time.
* 1994-2004: Clinton AWB really had the opposite effect on the industry, where manufacturers jumped to meet the demand once the Congress passed the Clinton AWB. They did this by supplying tons of rifles without flash hiders, bayonet lugs, or telescoping stocks, and customers wizened up as to the game by buying them en masse, and having muzzle breaks installed if they wanted, using fixed telestocks, and basically moving forward. Many people who would have never purchased an AR15 did so, and Bushmaster, DPMS, and RRA really rose as the main manufacturers of look-alike models of the AR15, while pushing a major advertising campaign touting the benefits of their products. You could still buy Complete Colt uppers that were very high quality and commanded top dollar, in addition to complete neutered Colt rifles and carbines. Several small shops emerged during this era focusing on their specialty of billet receivers, high-end barrels, etc.
* Quality during that era with Bushmaster started out fairly decent, but as demand increased, things like BCG assembly took a dive, and a lot of guns had carrier keys that would come loose in high volume shooting sessions, which were becoming more and more popular with the rise of 3-gun, contractor demands for fleet weapons, and training courses put on by experienced and inexperienced entrepreneurs. At the tail end of this 1994-2004 period, we had 9/11, which was basically a watershed for the firearms industry. Not only were numerous contractors demanding guns now, but every Billy Bob, returning soldier, and gun rag consumer had to have one or 5 of them, and by stars, they had to have the bestest, most spechulist forcesist AR15's of them all, complete with KAC rails or look alikes, vertical grips, Chinese red dots, lasers, phone cord pressure switches, bipods, 3-rail rail mounts to go on top of your rails....you get the picture.
* DPMS soon jumped on the .308 bandwagon, introducing an economy-grade 6061 receiver set rifle entitled the LR-308, with a translucent, ban-compliant 10rd magazine that would lose shavings with every cycle of the BCG, but was typically very accurate for a gun off the shelf. RRA licensed their .308 design to Bushmaster, calling it the BAR-10 and ran on FAL mags, which went through enough teething issues to be quickly discontinued, only to be released again by a more capable RRA as their LAR-8.
* Most importantly, we saw the addition of several new cartridges that were stuffed into the AR15 that took away the hunting barrier for many people. The .50 Beowulf, 6.5 Grendel, and 6.8 SPC emerged by 2004, creating a new wave of high performance cartridges that fit nicely in the popular AR15, opening up all kinds of doors for shooters who would never own an AR15, or use one for their common purposes because of what they viewed as an inferior chambering with the .223 Remington/5.56 NATO.
2004-2012: Post-ban, pre-SH era. Here is where the market really expanded in the wake of 9/11 and the end of the Clinton AWB, which had a 10-year limit to it. The wars were raging strong, and appetites for AR15's and AR10's displaced the common hunting rifle trends that are tracked by NSSF and the ATF quarterly, as well as annually. Trends in ammunition consumption and rifle purchases went into an upward spiral, which were fueled even further with the election of a certain junior Senator to the White House with an aggressive anti-gun track record.
Firearms, ammunition, and accessories sales surged so much, that venture capitalists started buying into the industry, even merging major auto financing with national grocery chain stores, as well as public teacher retirement plans. Several major AR15 and rifle-maker names were bought and placed under the same corporate ownership, including Remington, Bushmaster, DPMS, and Marlin. This really created a first in the American firearms industry history, with a mega company swallowing several huge and historical brands, in addition to 2 of the largest AR15 manufacturers in the world.
* The caliber variation market caught on with a lot of traction, resulting in not only several ammunition manufacturers supporting them, but more cartridges developed to fit in the AR15 that would be well-suited to hunting.
The industry was really at its peak in terms of being able to crank out Bushmaster and DPMS-grade rifles that could get through your plinking sessions of maybe a few boxes of ammo before problems arose, but then something terrible happened.
* The Post Sandy Hook Era: December 14, 2012. A strange kid reportedly kills 20 children and 6 adults with an AR15, and the strained market goes insane. Along the past 2 generations, several small shops have risen to be sought after AR15 builders with various degrees of specialization or economy pricing, to include those that only made upper receiver groups and sold other parts for DIY type customers. This era also coincides with a time when some of the industry's best engineers, machinists, shop foremen, and technicians (mostly baby boomers), are retiring to go home and chill for their remaining years, if the acetone, blast media, metal shavings, and smoking habits haven't claimed their lives earlier.
We basically had a perfect storm where demand was beyond unprecedented, the industry was having a very difficult time meeting the unpredictable demands of a wide range of customers, and the inherent design of the AR15 family of weapons is such that you can buy critical parts out from the supply chain from up and coming shops who don't have the same clout as a venture capitalist does. Compounded with the lack of well-educated new employees who are part of the excessively THC blood content "I deserve/want it now for nothing." generation, and don't expect much in terms of quality control.
Slap a nice coat of Cerakote on the rifle, throw in an uber tactical charge handle, melonite the barrel, CNC engrave some skulls in it, and you are well on your way to the $2000 plus garbage rifle market, never mind springs, detents, MIM'd LPK's, certs on barrel extensions or bolts, extractors, steel pedigrees, etc. Add your company's unique rail handguard, or carbon fiber tube, and you are cooking with crisco. The ammunition industry is showing signs of the wheels falling off as well in the post-SH era, with demands so high that they could literally afford to care less what primers, powder charges, and loads they spit out the door, made even worse by gas-operated AR15's and AR10's that have very specific pressure curves to run the systems reliably and safely.
Despite all of this, a few solid industry pillars continue to hold true to their core values and visions.
Colt, BCM, DD, Alexander Arms, LMT, and JP come to mind. I haven't purchased a complete AR15 off the shelf since 1997 or 1998, and I'm a controlled panic buyer club member since the post Patrick Purdy school yard shooting in Stockton, CA, 1989.
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I have 100% reliability with my bravo company rifle.
From my experience with all of the manufacturers you named, I stand by my words. I have both RRA and Colts in my armories for years. On the L.E. side and Government. I had and have no problems with RRA. I have seen problems with every manufacture but to say you would rather have a dmps says a lot about your opinion.
For the money, Colt, BCM, or finding some deals on LMT parts would be a good place to start. Personally I would look towards the BCM or LMT pieced together at that price point. While the Colt is a good/average gun, it represents a known standard as has a proven track record.
While Cobracutter lacks the tact of some, much of what he and LRRPF52 have posted up in here represents some good info. You can get some good guns for $1200 or just a little more than that. Hell, I wish I had picked up another LMT MRP for the $1355 I picked it up for years ago.
While Cobracutter lacks the tact of some, much of what he and LRRPF52 have posted up in here represents some good info. You can get some good guns for $1200 or just a little more than that. Hell, I wish I had picked up another LMT MRP for the $1355 I picked it up for years ago.
PSA has Colt 6920's on sale for 899.99. Heck of a deal!
