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What twist for .223

tc_firefighter311

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 5, 2012
308
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LaCygne KS
Looking to get my first AR. With that being said I know nothing about them. What would be the better twist for coyote hunting and target shooting out to 600 yards. I am looking at shooting 70-80 grain bullets for a little more knock down power. Looking at a dpms sass in .223. Or a dpms tpr. The sass is a 1:8 twist and the tpr is a 1:9.
 
Go with 1 in 8 twist. I think there is a version of the 77SMK that has a cannalure for semi auto loading to mag length.
Please look somewhere other than DPMS. S&W, Rock River, and Daniel Defense would be better choices.
 
Thanks for the input. What wrong with dpms. I have been looking at rock river and read a lot of reviews on the and can't find anything bad about rock river. I will start looking there.
 
I'd do these 4 options before the SASS in my opinion as they would weigh much much less and they have awesome specs & would most likely out shoot the SASS..

$1000 dollars for a DPMS 3G1.... crazy light weight, vtac rifle length handguard, jp trigger, mucullek compensator, and a 1:8 twist 18" stainless steel barrel for $1k!!!! dude, that's a boat load of rifle for little money...

DPMS Panther 5.56 3G1 AR15 NIB No CC Fees RFA3-3G1 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
DPMS Panther 3G1 5.56x45mm

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some other options to look at:

Rock River Arms Advanced Tactical Hunter AR 1560 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
ROCK RIVER ARMS R3 COMPETITION LAR-15 3 GUN AR15 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
this thing is BAD ASS= Rock River Arms A4 20 " Varmint Rifle 5.56mm NIB : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
 
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this thing is beyond bad ass for $1200 & has the new / updated top rail octagonal free float handguard...I'd bet money this would shoot sub-moa all day long right out of the box... this is what I would get if it was me... 20" barrel is perfect IMO.

Rock River Arms A4 20 " Varmint Rifle 5.56mm NIB : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com


Looking to get my first AR. With that being said I know nothing about them. What would be the better twist for coyote hunting and target shooting out to 600 yards. I am looking at shooting 70-80 grain bullets for a little more knock down power. Looking at a dpms sass in .223. Or a dpms tpr. The sass is a 1:8 twist and the tpr is a 1:9.
 
For that bullet weight range, I would want at least a 1:8 twist. 75gr and 77gr pills run great out of a 8-twist barrel at mag-lengths in my experience. Now...generally speaking, a 1:8 twist will work ok with 80gr bullets, BUT 80gr class bullets in an AR will be single-feed ONLY and you may ultimately want a slightly faster twist to get the most out of the longer, heavier pills if you really want to go that route.

As for your rifle options bw the SASS and TPR...I would expand your horizons and ditch the TPR. The mini-SASS is a nice platform, offers several "upgrades" versus many off-the-shelf factory rifles and won't break the bank. That said, depending on your total budget, the features you want/need in your rifle, etc., you should also look at RRA (the Varmint A4, Predator Pursuit and R3 Comp rifles...just got to try one of the R3's last week...are outstanding, all 1:8 twist, all easily sub-MOA rifles in capable hands with proper ammo).




ETA: Ooops. elfster beat me to the punch on some of the RRA recommendations, but they are excellent rifles to consider...again...as long as they generally meet your basic requirements in an AR. I have had nothing but faithful, accurate services from every RRA factory rifle I've owned and elfsters own shoot out results speak for themselves with respect to the accuracy end of the spectrum. No comment on shooting from the "sissy bag." ;) (Joking...just joking!!!)
 
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same rifle for $1125! I'd be all over this!

Rock River Arms 20 inch SS Varmint A4 New : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

Looking to get my first AR. With that being said I know nothing about them. What would be the better twist for coyote hunting and target shooting out to 600 yards. I am looking at shooting 70-80 grain bullets for a little more knock down power. Looking at a dpms sass in .223. Or a dpms tpr. The sass is a 1:8 twist and the tpr is a 1:9.
 
damn elfster i'm not even in the market for a ar and your making me want to get one!
 
LOL, sorry!

yeah, there is not many DPMS rifles I'd purchase, but I got the 3G1 just because of the specs and it's amazing... hell, I did this with a friggen 1-4 power scope at 100yards for Christ sake! sub-moa all day long! I'd hate to even put on my 4-16 vortex scope on this rifle as I'm afraid it would never come back off. Mind you, these are fine tuned handloads. The JP trigger in the 3G1 is crazy crisp (I think they still use JP triggers in the 3G1)..


IMG_7136_zps0104123a.jpg

IMG_7152_zps38ef80d6.jpg



damn elfster i'm not even in the market for a ar and your making me want to get one!
 
what makes this rifle so F'ing awesome! it is the same rifle as my varmint 20", but has the new 2013 octagonal top rail handguard! Really!?! yes, really!

same as mine, but with the new railed octagonal handguard: Rock River Arms 20 inch SS Varmint A4 New : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

also, sub-moa all day long and would most likely out shoot the DPMS 3G1... slap a harris 6-9 notched leg swivel bipod with a QD bobro 1pc mount with a 4-16 FFP vortex scope = cash money!!:

IMG_8232_zpscd1b5008.jpg

IMG_8242_zps33d3f5e1.jpg

IMG_8221_zpse578e531.jpg
 
Thanks guy I will redefine my search and ditch the dpms. I have read a lot about the rock river and will do some more looking towards them. Looks like 1:8 was the answer I was looking for. Thanks for all the input. I don't want to spend a grand for a gun and then spend another grand to update it when I can buy it out of the box ready to shoot.
 
LOL! too funny! is this the "sissy bag" you're talking about?

RRA ATH, all with 60grn vmax with 23.8 varget:

IMG_7527_zps5a3c24f9.jpg


IMG_7487_zps277b8bf2.jpg


10shots @ 100yards
IMG_8031_zps78af966e.jpg


5shots @ 300yards
IMG_7344_zps159d099e.jpg


5shots @ 600yards
275INCH_zpsefa4af69.jpg


IMG_7280_zpsa128bd15.jpg





For that bullet weight range, I would want at least a 1:8 twist. 75gr and 77gr pills run great out of a 8-twist barrel at mag-lengths in my experience. Now...generally speaking, a 1:8 twist will work ok with 80gr bullets, BUT 80gr class bullets in an AR will be single-feed ONLY and you may ultimately want a slightly faster twist to get the most out of the longer, heavier pills if you really want to go that route.

As for your rifle options bw the SASS and TPR...I would expand your horizons and ditch the TPR. The mini-SASS is a nice platform, offers several "upgrades" versus many off-the-shelf factory rifles and won't break the bank. That said, depending on your total budget, the features you want/need in your rifle, etc., you should also look at RRA (the Varmint A4, Predator Pursuit and R3 Comp rifles...just got to try one of the R3's last week...are outstanding, all 1:8 twist, all easily sub-MOA rifles in capable hands with proper ammo).




ETA: Ooops. elfster beat me to the punch on some of the RRA recommendations, but they are excellent rifles to consider...again...as long as they generally meet your basic requirements in an AR. I have had nothing but faithful, accurate services from every RRA factory rifle I've owned and elfsters own shoot out results speak for themselves with respect to the accuracy end of the spectrum. No comment on shooting from the "sissy bag." ;) (Joking...just joking!!!)
 
I'm very impressed that the RRA can shoot that wide of range of powder charge weight all sub MOA. Great shooting also Elfster
 
you know what's crazy about my RRA varmint 20" rifle?? I got the complete rifle shipped out the door off gun broker for $940 dollars. Yes, it has the older style handguard, but my groups don't give a $hit about my rifle looks like.... although, I'm a huge fan of the new top rail octagonal handrail they offer now. I know some people don't like the following, but I'm a big fan of the good ol A1 buttstock... they just work great for rear sandbags.


Thanks guy I will redefine my search and ditch the dpms. I have read a lot about the rock river and will do some more looking towards them. Looks like 1:8 was the answer I was looking for. Thanks for all the input. I don't want to spend a grand for a gun and then spend another grand to update it when I can buy it out of the box ready to shoot.
 
LOL! too funny! is this the "sissy bag" you're talking about?

RRA ATH, all with 60grn vmax with 23.8 varget:

That's the bag, Elfster! I jest about the "sissy bag" business as a friend of mine who was more or less taken out of rifle shooting (at least rifles with any degree of recoil) because of a traumatic injury a few years about. He hated the @#$% lead sleds, etc., but has gotten good service from his extra-heavy bag like yours in combo with a heavy duty rear bag (and a good muzzle brake, low mass OS, etc.) for shooting his ARs which he can do without too much discomfort or days/weeks of suffering after he shoots. We affectionately refer to his bags as "Steve's sissy bags." ;)
 
what makes this rifle so F'ing awesome! it is the same rifle as my varmint 20", but has the new 2013 octagonal top rail handguard! Really!?! yes, really!

same as mine, but with the new railed octagonal handguard: Rock River Arms 20 inch SS Varmint A4 New : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

also, sub-moa all day long and would most likely out shoot the DPMS 3G1... slap a harris 6-9 notched leg swivel bipod with a QD bobro 1pc mount with a 4-16 FFP vortex scope = cash money!!:

IMG_8232_zpscd1b5008.jpg

IMG_8242_zps33d3f5e1.jpg

IMG_8221_zpse578e531.jpg

That's the model i have been looking at the 20 ss varmint a4. Looks like you have a load fine tuned in. Thanks for the info. I will have to check and see if my dealer can pick me up one. Thanks Everyone!!!
 
Shot with home built .5.56 using a DPMS 18" SASS heavy barrel. I have read some DPMS are good and some of the barrels are not, can't say, can only go by what I have experienced with them. 1:8 twist with 77 grn SMK set at magazine length. No wind, 75 degrees. Had to use sissy pillow because of to much coffee,(makes you shake):)
The 1:8 twist worked for me and actually works fairly well with the XM193 55 grn Lake City at closer ranges, which I was surprised to see.

Also have a RR, top notch equipment.



 
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Firefighter, two other things to look at on the RR. Two stage trigger is top notch, along with the M-4 feed ramp, cuts down on failure to feed and a Wylde chamber will eat just about anything you put in it..
 
I've got the RRA predator pursuit 20" 1/8 twist. It will 1 hole 5 69gr match kings if i do my part. Love it!
 
1:8 is always the best. 1:7 if you shoot heavy, 1:9 if you generally only shoot light bullets.

but all will work. I have a 1:7 and shoot 55 and 68gr all the time. As far as accuracy? I don't hunt or see the 223 much of a LR favorite in my book. I let my 308's worry about that.
 
Elfster is right, my testing showed 40 to 60 fps faster per each 2" added barrel length depending on the round used, with the effective range you have with the 5.56-.223 ballistic wise, all it will do is add a little extra weight. If you are going for ultimate accuracy you might ask RR about a free float hand guard and also if they recommend a crown on the barrel and at what degree. One draw back with the crowned barrel is no flash hider or can adapter, unless you have the barrel threaded which will eliminate the crown. If you call and talk to their tech people, they will lead you to the right type of set up for ultimate accuracy and what you want to use it for, before you buy and find out it's not what you were expecting. AR's are fun and limited to your imagination and credit card limit.(that's a funny):)
 
I had the predator pursuit 20 inch and it would shoot a 4 shot group all day long that a quarter would cover, factory hornady 75 grain match. Always wanted an 18 inch so sold the predator and got an advanced tactical hunter with 1/8 twist with a wylde chamber. It shoots just as good and is a bit lighter. Wished rr would have more options on quad rails/ free float rails. I like the looks of their new rails, they are coming along. Rock river makes dang good stuff. I love their two stage triggers. I like their brand of car stocks as well. Very good stuff that shoots lights out.

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