The Online Training here is excellent. And one group isn't really representative of anything. 5 5 shots groups start to scratch the edge of a rifles performance.
- Thread starter want2learn
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Just to give you another data point on the SSG and what it is capable of. Took my rifle to the range last week. Shot 4 5 shot groups at a range of 300 yards. Not sure of the first group because I also used it to sight in. However, if I'm counting the right holes, it was approx. 2.75". Next three groups were just under 3", approx. 2.5" and just under 2". This is with FGMM ammo, off a bipod, and using a small rear bag. However, I'm not exactly perfect, and I have no doubt a more talented shooter could have done better. My point is that you should have confidence in your rifle and know that if you do your part the Sig will not let you down.
Sig Academy uses the SSG as loaner guns for students to borrow if they want to take a PSR class and they don't have their own gear.
They better be confident in those guns or they are screwing their instructors/students.
The "never fired scoped rifles before" students in my class did well with them.
They better be confident in those guns or they are screwing their instructors/students.
The "never fired scoped rifles before" students in my class did well with them.
i'm so glad to read these posts, at least i know i'm on the right track. I must admit i was pretty disapointed in the beginning, i just imagined at 100 yards i'd have tiny little clustered groups.
I shot 6 groups today, each 4 shots except one group which was 5 shots, for 29 shots total. That's about all i can tolerate presently at one setting. All shot at 100 yards from a bench.
Worst group was 1.12 inch at 100 yards. The best 3 groups were 0.47, 0.42, 0.52 inch. the intermediate groups were 0.8 inch and 0.9inch groups.
Still have a lot of work to do but i think i'm getting close to identifying a good load for the rifle. It seems to do pretty well with 168gr Sierra, Varget 45gr, BR2 primer and a COAL of 2.87inch. I just ordered some 178gr projectiles as well so i'll study those as well. My neighbor has some IMR 4064 with which he's been pleased so he'll give me a little bit to try out as well.
Mostly however I'm going to stick with/focus on the aforementioned group in an effort to develop/hone my shooting skills/technique.
I installed a Surefire ProComp muzzle brake, not sure i notice a great reduction in recoil. Might just be that i'm terribly sensitive to recoil, and my back is terrible which doesn't help the situation too well.
I'm fine with my old Savage in Remington..222, and my AR 223/5.56.
Houndog, that sound pretty impressive to me.
Pmclaine, i'd sure love to hear more about the Sig class. I bet it was awesome.
I shot 6 groups today, each 4 shots except one group which was 5 shots, for 29 shots total. That's about all i can tolerate presently at one setting. All shot at 100 yards from a bench.
Worst group was 1.12 inch at 100 yards. The best 3 groups were 0.47, 0.42, 0.52 inch. the intermediate groups were 0.8 inch and 0.9inch groups.
Still have a lot of work to do but i think i'm getting close to identifying a good load for the rifle. It seems to do pretty well with 168gr Sierra, Varget 45gr, BR2 primer and a COAL of 2.87inch. I just ordered some 178gr projectiles as well so i'll study those as well. My neighbor has some IMR 4064 with which he's been pleased so he'll give me a little bit to try out as well.
Mostly however I'm going to stick with/focus on the aforementioned group in an effort to develop/hone my shooting skills/technique.
I installed a Surefire ProComp muzzle brake, not sure i notice a great reduction in recoil. Might just be that i'm terribly sensitive to recoil, and my back is terrible which doesn't help the situation too well.
I'm fine with my old Savage in Remington..222, and my AR 223/5.56.
Houndog, that sound pretty impressive to me.
Pmclaine, i'd sure love to hear more about the Sig class. I bet it was awesome.
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If you average my groups at 100 yards its probably .75". My rifle is a bedded fn spr as i got it from Tac Cord. I very rarely shoot 100 tard groups except in load development. I generally shoot at 300 yards. Stings of 10. My average there is 1 moa. I do well in F T/R. If you can hold .5 moa regularly stretch the range. When you can do it at 300 yards you can win matches in F T/R.
thanks...now that i think i have a decent load i'll try to stretch out the distance to 300 and see how i fair. pretty low on components, hoping for a good sale
Here is some .308 at 300 yards Im shooting.
I know what the end result will be but Im comparing semi auto .308 vs bolt rifle .308 and Ill probably vary the ranges depending on iron sights or scope..
Just some self pleasure to give me a purpose while at the range.....
The post is a work in progress but here is a link.....
https://www.m40rifle.com/forum/general/community/29873-semi-auto-or-bolt-action
I know what the end result will be but Im comparing semi auto .308 vs bolt rifle .308 and Ill probably vary the ranges depending on iron sights or scope..
Just some self pleasure to give me a purpose while at the range.....
The post is a work in progress but here is a link.....
https://www.m40rifle.com/forum/general/community/29873-semi-auto-or-bolt-action
very cool, thanks for sharing. by the way, what type of brass catcher are you using on the AR? looks formidable, much better than the fragile one i tried.
Here's some while working up loads on a new barrel:
Best one to date
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Best one to date
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Darn it...every time i feel like i'm doing pretty good you all go and show those amazing groups and those magnificent looking rifles, with suppressors no less.
only kidding, really appreciate seeing what i need to aspire to. I'm going to work up some new loads tonight, weight each case etc. I'll get there.
only kidding, really appreciate seeing what i need to aspire to. I'm going to work up some new loads tonight, weight each case etc. I'll get there.
I'm glad you said that, I think most of us have a propensity to only show our best work. Here’s some of the targets in between!
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[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/photos.smugmug.com\/photos\/i-dWnPPgq\/0\/65ea2e42\/XL\/i-dWnPPgq-XL.jpg"}[/IMG2]
I am glad that many people here on the hide are owning up to the fact that they don't shoot .25 "all day long". I have my hero groups and in all honesty that is what goes up on IG but in reality between my AIs, and my customs if I posted every group I shot I would be a .75" shooter (and some days worse but we all have those).
IMO rifles these days are pretty good, so is factory ammo. I would hazard a guess that most decent target guns can shoot better than most shooters out there. As a previous posters said, when guys need to show sub-moa every time there is a lot of crickets.
Also, as Lowlight once said in a video (I am paraphrasing and he can correct me if I am wrong), is that the guys who end up last in a competition are better than the best shooters on the internet because they are actually going out and doing it. It sounds like the OP is interested in doing and not just talking.
I would say to the OP that is great shooting and more trigger time will only help. You also have to remember that the top shooters out there send a lot of rounds down range, their effort definitely shows.
IMO rifles these days are pretty good, so is factory ammo. I would hazard a guess that most decent target guns can shoot better than most shooters out there. As a previous posters said, when guys need to show sub-moa every time there is a lot of crickets.
Also, as Lowlight once said in a video (I am paraphrasing and he can correct me if I am wrong), is that the guys who end up last in a competition are better than the best shooters on the internet because they are actually going out and doing it. It sounds like the OP is interested in doing and not just talking.
I would say to the OP that is great shooting and more trigger time will only help. You also have to remember that the top shooters out there send a lot of rounds down range, their effort definitely shows.
Playing with seating depth on Sunday. 100yds with my AI AEIII. Load details on the picture. People in adjacent lanes were shooting pistols, so lots of scatter shots on my target from them or from hits on adjacent steel. But I was happy with the results and knew when I pulled a shot due to rushing.
Here are two groups. The 1 hole group is when I'm having a really good day. The other is more average.
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An "M40rast" or "M40phile".
Vudoo Gunworks is trying to tempt me into buying a .22 trainer......
I don't know why this particular PDF is not loading.
Member DeltaWhiskey sent it to me.
Ill send him a PM and see if he can load it here.
Here is the saga of my road to building that rifle and the recipe of parts is contained therein.
Contact Raven Rifles and you to can have one.....
https://www.m40rifle.com/forum/general/community/11833-my-m40a1ish-build
Unsure how many pictures still exist in that post since Photobucket went all extortionist.
For some reason I am unable to up-load the pdf file for that target either on this thread or via pm.
Anyone who wants that dot-drill target pm me your email address and I will send it to you. I've had the target for a while now, and for the life of me I can't remember where I got it...
DW
Consistency is key. Everyone can go out once or twice and get lucky and shoot a .2 group. Training improves consistency to where you can go out and shoot those groups regularly if you do your part. I have my good days and my bad days. But regardless of what day it is I go out and try to shoot the best that I can.
Attachments
I have an AIAX that I bought used with an AINA .308 10 twist 24" barrel. Allegedly it's a Bartlein blank machined by Dave Tooley, given the vintage.
The seller described it as a quarter MOA shooter, and I made some ammo up using his recipe (175 SMK Lapua brass BR2 primer 42.5 Varget whatever COL) but the best I could get on a consistent basis was .6" five shot groups at 100 yards.I shot off an Atlas bipod with the butt spike, rear bag only, front bag only, front and rear bags. Same results. I pulled off one .4" 5 shot group but that doesn't make it a .4 MOA shooter in my book.
Still, the rifle is a hammer, and on a windless day where I ran through some ammo I had developed for a different rifle (LC LR brass and 168 SMKs), once I figured out my drop I put the last 7 rounds of that ammo on a 1/4 IPSC target at 700 yards into a 5" group. Not benchrest performance by any means but very satisfying.
The seller described it as a quarter MOA shooter, and I made some ammo up using his recipe (175 SMK Lapua brass BR2 primer 42.5 Varget whatever COL) but the best I could get on a consistent basis was .6" five shot groups at 100 yards.I shot off an Atlas bipod with the butt spike, rear bag only, front bag only, front and rear bags. Same results. I pulled off one .4" 5 shot group but that doesn't make it a .4 MOA shooter in my book.
Still, the rifle is a hammer, and on a windless day where I ran through some ammo I had developed for a different rifle (LC LR brass and 168 SMKs), once I figured out my drop I put the last 7 rounds of that ammo on a 1/4 IPSC target at 700 yards into a 5" group. Not benchrest performance by any means but very satisfying.
These days I am less interested in working to get the smallest group and more interested in making sure that the first shot I take goes exactly where I intend.
Tiny ass groups off somewhere away from the aim point don't impress me as much as a dot drill target with every single one of the 20 dots center-punched.
Now that is marksmanship
Tiny ass groups off somewhere away from the aim point don't impress me as much as a dot drill target with every single one of the 20 dots center-punched.
Now that is marksmanship
Great point.
i've still got so much to learn. Getting more comfortable with reloading, i weigh and measure each and every round for example.
While I'll continue to focus a little more on optimizing loads ( i bought 2 different powders Pro2000 and 3064) at least i've got a load that is pretty reproducible.
I'm doing a lot of dry firing and trying to work on breathing/technique/timing.It helped me a lot with pistol and i'm hoping for the same now with rifle.
At the same time i'm studying a couple of books on longer range shooting so i can learn more about the science of shooting longer ranges, how to use a scope and to secure ever more knowledge on the techniques necessary to effect solid hits at a variety of distances.
This forum and its members have been a great resource. thank you to all
i've still got so much to learn. Getting more comfortable with reloading, i weigh and measure each and every round for example.
While I'll continue to focus a little more on optimizing loads ( i bought 2 different powders Pro2000 and 3064) at least i've got a load that is pretty reproducible.
I'm doing a lot of dry firing and trying to work on breathing/technique/timing.It helped me a lot with pistol and i'm hoping for the same now with rifle.
At the same time i'm studying a couple of books on longer range shooting so i can learn more about the science of shooting longer ranges, how to use a scope and to secure ever more knowledge on the techniques necessary to effect solid hits at a variety of distances.
This forum and its members have been a great resource. thank you to all
A rifle that is capable of either tiny groups OR drilling the center of a 3/4" dot at 100 yards is capable of doing both.
It's pretty easy to zero the scope, much harder to have the rifle and shooting skills to do either of the above.
I purposely dial 1/2 mil low when I'm shooting groups so the center of my target is not removed by the first few shots. It's pretty hard to shoot a small group when your aiming point could lie anywhere within a 1/2" ragged hole from the previous shots.
If I dial up to zero, I'm on the dot.
interesting. i've been marking the center of my target with a magic marker to give myself a more discrete point to aim for.
as i've to date been shooting only at a 100 yard target i've not played with the rifle scope dials outside of initially getting the rifle to shoot on paper
its probably time for me to try a ladder or box test.
as i've to date been shooting only at a 100 yard target i've not played with the rifle scope dials outside of initially getting the rifle to shoot on paper
its probably time for me to try a ladder or box test.
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