Just FYI, I made 4 of the matches at River Bend since you posted this. Thank you.
Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?
- Thread starter THEIS
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3 Gun, IDPA, and USPSA have all turned into equipment races. I competed heavily in all of those for 15+ years. PRS is not alone.
All your reasons for NOT shooting PRS are exactly reasons why you should PRS: because you have not clue what a PRS match is.
So a little update for y'all. I've shot a couple more matches since I posted, and I think one of the problems with the matches is these weapon mounted ballistic+LRF devices. Obviously people are shooting with their own rifles, so there will be differences, but these in particular gives a pretty distinct advantage over those who are not using one.
I think these weapon mounted ballistic solver+LRF integrated devices that are becoming more common, and are even built into the scopes in some cases, are probably are going to need their own category. Its harder to compete with someone when they have a target acquisition set up that is so streamlined. It would be like the rifle equivalent of red dot vs iron sight categories on a pistol.
Not as big of a concern for PRS, since everybody gets the ranges. But for detect/range/engage style matches, I think it's something to consider.
I think these weapon mounted ballistic solver+LRF integrated devices that are becoming more common, and are even built into the scopes in some cases, are probably are going to need their own category. Its harder to compete with someone when they have a target acquisition set up that is so streamlined. It would be like the rifle equivalent of red dot vs iron sight categories on a pistol.
Not as big of a concern for PRS, since everybody gets the ranges. But for detect/range/engage style matches, I think it's something to consider.
You mean those Wilcox lasers that cost 10k that I have seen..... like 3 times? In 2 years of shooting NRL hunter and other field matches?
I have seen plenty of people win using sub 1k LRFs and sub 2k LRF Binos. It's not the gear, it's having your shit together with the gear you do have.
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I feel like similar arguments were made when red dots first came out for pistols. You see one or two of them now, but as more companies start to create these integrated devices, like this one:
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...ks-an-optic-for-next-generation-squad-weapon/
Free market will do its thing, the price will come down, and you will start seeing them a lot more in the civilian market. When was the last time a competitive shooter didn't use a Kestrel or Ballistics solver to get their DOPE? They're everywhere now. Tech evolves, the sport evolves with it. I'm just looking at trends.
This thread asked for new shooter perspective. That's what I'm trying to give, and maybe I'm wrong. I'm not the greatest shot for sure, but if I don't have to juggle between finding a target with my binos, lazing it, checking my dope for it, and then finding the target in my scope...and have it all that in a single press of a button? You can't tell me that's not a better system. At a certain point it's more than convenient, it's just plain better.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...ks-an-optic-for-next-generation-squad-weapon/
Free market will do its thing, the price will come down, and you will start seeing them a lot more in the civilian market. When was the last time a competitive shooter didn't use a Kestrel or Ballistics solver to get their DOPE? They're everywhere now. Tech evolves, the sport evolves with it. I'm just looking at trends.
This thread asked for new shooter perspective. That's what I'm trying to give, and maybe I'm wrong. I'm not the greatest shot for sure, but if I don't have to juggle between finding a target with my binos, lazing it, checking my dope for it, and then finding the target in my scope...and have it all that in a single press of a button? You can't tell me that's not a better system. At a certain point it's more than convenient, it's just plain better.
Dude what matches are you shooting because all that blabber has nothing to do with PRS. There are no weapons mounted laser rangefinder ballistic solvers. LOL You know the range to all the targets and have time to get your data ready. You really need to figure what you are talking about as you are way off here.
I’m curious about the competitions you’ve been shooting, where the combined optics/LRF/solution are a strong differentiator in performance. And @Rob01 apparently shares my curiosity lol
And I actually can make an argument that the current tech that combines all of those is inferior. The main civilian offering, the Sig BDX suite of products, suffers so significantly on optical quality that many elect to skip even the 10k binos (which are flat-out excellent when it comes to the LRF/UI portion) and go to the Swaro EL Range or Leica Geovid 3200.COM / Pro glass. I can’t think of a single person running the Sig BDX scope, I imagine because the optical quality isn’t up to the task and also because the drop indicator is only good for the last rangefinder result; that format won’t work with a typical find/range/engage multi-target spread (such as NRL Hunter).
People who would cheerfully drop $10k to buy points at their next few national-level matches (PRS, RTC, CD, or NRL Hunter) are aware of these offerings and aren’t using them, so I really am interested to hear where that tech is a stand-out advantage in the current competitive space.
He is talking about NRL Hunter/Compeition dynamics/Rifle men team challenge/ field style matches where it is blind.
You walk up to the stage, find the targets, range them, get dope, and then go build a position to shoot them in a order given to you all within an limited amount of time.
The current best solution is usually something like sig or leica binos that you can use to range give you the dope, write it down, and then go to work on the rifle.
Example:
Ok I get that and have shot similar matches but I still don’t see what he is complaining about and the example as being a major issue.
I think you're right. He seems to be talking specifically about Team Safari, RTC, Mammoth and other team based find/range/engage matches (including the team division in NRL hunter). Both guys having a WMRF can be a significant advantage in those matches in terms of both saving time and confirming the correct target between team mates.
I don't think a WMRF would really be any better than a good set of range finding binos in Steel Safari or the NRL Hunter individual divisions. But it can be a game changer when shooting with a buddy.
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the minute someone comes in and wipes the field clean and does it consistently with a WMLRF you'll see a rule change
no different of an argument than reloaded 22LR solids...but that never really became an issue because cost and brass and blah blah isn't worth it
no different of an argument than reloaded 22LR solids...but that never really became an issue because cost and brass and blah blah isn't worth it
I think the 22LR reloaded ammo ban was a dumb rule that stifles innovation.
.... the top guys are shooting $4000 22lrs with $4000 scopes on them, with swaros, RRS tripods, leica range finders, kestrels, shooting lab tested lot ammo that costs 40cents+ a round....
If someone wants to do all of the work (and money) to see if reloaded 22LR ammo could even provide a marginal benefits I would say power to them.
I didn’t realize they banned it, but fully agreed, that seems mighty short-sighted or worse. People can handload CF ammo or buy factory, no reason the same can’t be true of RF.
They banned it in open.
And if they are worried about the steel then just give a velocity limit that's fine.
I said it was like that. Not exactly that. Nothing to do with open or the divisions but a similar rule against them like limiting velocity in Tac.
Tell that to the MDs who buy the steel.
And if there were that many that wanted to use hand loaded .22 then they could make their own division for it like “People with too much time on their hands” division. Lol
I'm with you on this one. Open should allow it, MDs should be allowed to forbid it at their discretion if steel life is a concern. But that's not a reason to ban it across the whole discipline, and honestly if handloads appreciably outperformed, it might lead to factory offerings of modernized 22LR projectiles. Let the game experiment and innovate, we'll be better for it.
Okay, I’m going to go out on a limb here as a NRL22/PRS22 match director. I have no problem with hand loading copper solids and using them on my steel. At this point I do not see that either the advantage nor the steel problem is an issue. I think innovation and forward thinking is important.
If it turns out that this really is a game changer, then good! Let us change and allow it as modified or super modified. Sounds like bullshit, but call it whatever you want. Auto racing changed to allow for innovation and ingenuity. Other sports need to learn to do so in order to stay on top.
We will have to do the same or we can stifle innovation and improvement. Choices.
Okay…rant over. Carry on.
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