Not even if I shot the match twice!
Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?
- Thread starter THEIS
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You know what, I’ve been there, but it was a day to enjoy and celebrate, I set a record for most targets down. No, I did not get a trophy, nor for the day, I hit over 50% of the shots I took and finished last out of 53. At that time 50% was a personal record. Sounds stupid, but a win is a win, and I won that day.
Don’t make sport, in my day, I went home with a black cloud over my head if did not shoot clean, 100% and THE WIN! But, alas, those days are gone and I’m happy and blessed to be here.
I’d rather have the Lanterne Rouge trophy, and still be shooting good than be lying in a grave like too many of my friends already are.
(Lanterne Rouge trophy - Trophy presented to the last place finisher in a bike race. In the Tour de France, it’s quite an award, with cash and entrance money paid for races following the tour. But don’t take it as poor performance. Often its won by sprinters who simply can’t perform in the mountains but won several sprint stages or by the men who work and help the leaders by riding in front of them to break the wind).
No more recent posts you could put another multi paragraph post in? lol
I just shot my 2nd PRS match yesterday, first one was in December where it rained hard all day. I sucked but overall was pretty happy with it being my first match and the weather. I was optimistic I'd improve yesterday from my firs match with good weather other than the Texas heat and some switching winds. I wasn't expecting to do well by any means but thought I'd do better than my first match. I sucked in every possible way.
Could't find a target on one stage though I had no issue finding it before the stage started and literally knew where it was. It was low and by some fairly high grass but for some stupid reason I couldn't see it for the longest time. Then I had a magazine that I couldn't feed out of so that caused a lot of issues on a stage. Got the sequence of small and larger targets wrong on one stage. But, overall I just sucked and couldn't hit anything. I'd miss right then left, couldn't get the wind right all day. Missed the large target on a KYL rack and somehow hit the tiny one.
I'm 57 so don't care too much about what others think though I don't like sucking, especially as bad as I did yesterday. I have shot a decent amount in my life but PRS is a whole different animal for me and longer distances are fairly new also at under two years. I need to take a class because for someone brand new to the sport I am kinda clueless as to proper positions for different type stages. I would have liked a little help on my wind calls and was kinda surprised with little to no help but that's fine also. It wasn't like I had a chance of placing anywhere besides towards the bottom. I will say it was a humbling and frustrating experience. I have great equipment, I just suck evidently.
Could't find a target on one stage though I had no issue finding it before the stage started and literally knew where it was. It was low and by some fairly high grass but for some stupid reason I couldn't see it for the longest time. Then I had a magazine that I couldn't feed out of so that caused a lot of issues on a stage. Got the sequence of small and larger targets wrong on one stage. But, overall I just sucked and couldn't hit anything. I'd miss right then left, couldn't get the wind right all day. Missed the large target on a KYL rack and somehow hit the tiny one.
I'm 57 so don't care too much about what others think though I don't like sucking, especially as bad as I did yesterday. I have shot a decent amount in my life but PRS is a whole different animal for me and longer distances are fairly new also at under two years. I need to take a class because for someone brand new to the sport I am kinda clueless as to proper positions for different type stages. I would have liked a little help on my wind calls and was kinda surprised with little to no help but that's fine also. It wasn't like I had a chance of placing anywhere besides towards the bottom. I will say it was a humbling and frustrating experience. I have great equipment, I just suck evidently.
I just shot my 2nd PRS match yesterday, first one was in December where it rained hard all day. I sucked but overall was pretty happy with it being my first match and the weather. I was optimistic I'd improve yesterday from my firs match with good weather other than the Texas heat and some switching winds. I wasn't expecting to do well by any means but thought I'd do better than my first match. I sucked in every possible way.
Could't find a target on one stage though I had no issue finding it before the stage started and literally knew where it was. It was low and by some fairly high grass but for some stupid reason I couldn't see it for the longest time. Then I had a magazine that I couldn't feed out of so that caused a lot of issues on a stage. Got the sequence of small and larger targets wrong on one stage. But, overall I just sucked and couldn't hit anything. I'd miss right then left, couldn't get the wind right all day. Missed the large target on a KYL rack and somehow hit the tiny one.
I'm 57 so don't care too much about what others think though I don't like sucking, especially as bad as I did yesterday. I have shot a decent amount in my life but PRS is a whole different animal for me and longer distances are fairly new also at under two years. I need to take a class because for someone brand new to the sport I am kinda clueless as to proper positions for different type stages. I would have liked a little help on my wind calls and was kinda surprised with little to no help but that's fine also. It wasn't like I had a chance of placing anywhere besides towards the bottom. I will say it was a humbling and frustrating experience. I have great equipment, I just suck evidently.
Head down to Rifles Only in Kingsville and take a class with Jacob. Will help you a lot.
What’s a KYL match? I know what a KYL is but never a whole match of them and not you can’t do a true one as you can’t take points from people. They cried about it.
We’ve done true KYL stages at Altus in non sanctioned matches. It really adds to the challenge. Funny thing, in one match, my first shot, I center hit. Next shot, only GOD knows where it headed off too, but it sure didn’t hit anything near the KYL rack. ( I strongly suspect user error). So, next day, in practice, I ran the durn thing.
But that’s KYL, Know Your Limits. Watch your hits and if it doesn’t look good, STOP and keep the points. Gamble and too often wind up with the casino solution, the house wins.
Non sanctioned are the key words.
I know what a KYL is as I have been shooting them over 20 years but not a KYL match.
I hated when they started taking away the mental stress parts of stages.
Half you fucks in here are way too soft and got it taken out.
How ours was set up was like this.
Stage 1: 500 yards, 6 targets, 1 min
Stage 2: 750 yards, 6 targets, 1:30 min
Stage 3: 1000 yards, 6 targets, 2:00 minutes.
All targets were to be executed from big to small with points increasing as they got smaller.
Add all points up from stages for grand total. Since it was a fundraiser match. You can pay $20 for a mulligan on any stage but you had to stick with whatever you scored on that mulligan.
If there was a tie, then the time came into play to break tie.
It was a lot of fun and a great match for anyone learning to get into matches.
IDK, I think you can set up a KYL stage that stays true to the spirit of “know your limits” while not actively taking points off of the board. For example…
Let’s say there is a rack of 5 plates, each smaller than the last. We assign points to each plate; 1 for the biggest, 5 for the smallest, etc. Now, we define a maximum round count for the stage. Let’s go with 6 rounds. Shooter is allowed to shoot at any target or targets on the rack, scoring points for every hit. As 5 points is the highest award for a single target, and 6 is the max # of rounds allowed, the max score for the stage is 30.
BUT, the shooter can only score the max if he only shoots at the most difficult target. Every shot taken at a low-point target reduces the max achievable score. And, because how the targets are shot is not defined by the stage (just the points per target and max shots) it is a conscious decision by the shooter to reduce his score by shooting the easier targets.
Let’s say there is a rack of 5 plates, each smaller than the last. We assign points to each plate; 1 for the biggest, 5 for the smallest, etc. Now, we define a maximum round count for the stage. Let’s go with 6 rounds. Shooter is allowed to shoot at any target or targets on the rack, scoring points for every hit. As 5 points is the highest award for a single target, and 6 is the max # of rounds allowed, the max score for the stage is 30.
BUT, the shooter can only score the max if he only shoots at the most difficult target. Every shot taken at a low-point target reduces the max achievable score. And, because how the targets are shot is not defined by the stage (just the points per target and max shots) it is a conscious decision by the shooter to reduce his score by shooting the easier targets.
It’s obvious that many here have never shot a true KYL stage.
I do miss those. We always had one in every match prior to PRS. Those and true hostage stages where you lost points if you hit the hostage. But the whiners won and now you can have neither more points for difficulty nor can you lose points. Now it’s just blast away.
I do use the KYL rack each match still, but now I add stress by making them run five targets twice with ten rounds and make it must hit to move on. Usually from a barricade of some sorts. Still no decision making involved though.
Yup a true KYL makes it interesting. I used to look at it and only bring the amount of rounds I thought I wanted to the line with me. Never a full mag. Worst case you pull a zero but it adds a little thinking.
You still lose points. You stop on whatever target you can hit. 6 targets, 6 rounds at each stage.
even worse (better?)
in OK shoot for the Green in 2013 ish there was a std KYL rack big-small. Instead of losing pts you got negative for the value of that target if you missed.
still haunts me to this day.
you were also allowed to double the pts value if you wanted before the stage began - so target values went from 1-2-3-4-5 pts for ea hit to 2-4-6-8-10 pts per impact.
you were allowed to shoot at any target you wanted.
rack was at 500 yds. dont remember sizes
I start double pts and hit largest target 1= +2
second shot go to 2nd target and miss (-4) tot=-2
I shoot at it again and miss (-4) tot=-6
go to big one and hit it (+2) tot = -4
last shot go for 2nd and miss (-4) tot = -8
if i had the brains to just hit the large one 5x (score of a 10) I would have won the match. if i just got a 0 I would have been top 5. but a -8 dropped me to 14th. epic. lol
good ol mind f that the shooting sport needs more of.
Regards
DT
in OK shoot for the Green in 2013 ish there was a std KYL rack big-small. Instead of losing pts you got negative for the value of that target if you missed.
still haunts me to this day.
you were also allowed to double the pts value if you wanted before the stage began - so target values went from 1-2-3-4-5 pts for ea hit to 2-4-6-8-10 pts per impact.
you were allowed to shoot at any target you wanted.
rack was at 500 yds. dont remember sizes
I start double pts and hit largest target 1= +2
second shot go to 2nd target and miss (-4) tot=-2
I shoot at it again and miss (-4) tot=-6
go to big one and hit it (+2) tot = -4
last shot go for 2nd and miss (-4) tot = -8
if i had the brains to just hit the large one 5x (score of a 10) I would have won the match. if i just got a 0 I would have been top 5. but a -8 dropped me to 14th. epic. lol
good ol mind f that the shooting sport needs more of.
Regards
DT
I get the added stress of a true KYL/hostage stage but I can also understand the reasoning behind not having stages where a person would feel discouraged from shooting at targets for fear of losing points already earned.
Our club does the same thing with KYL type stages now too.
Personally I liked stages with the added stress of having move ten or twenty yards to get into position. You could strategize by moving slow to keep your heart rate down or running to save time. I haven't seen a lot of stages with that recently but I don't think there are any PRS rules against it.
I completely agree. The big reason for this match was to bring, shooters who want to start matches, to feel less stressed. But still have the stress of time and first round impacts on steel.
Actually speaking of movement stress a stage I thought was going to be boring but was actually excellent was a single target prone stage where you had to get up and touch a marker on a post one step away after every shot.
It was really simple but it was a good test of your fitness, pacing/strategy, and ability to get into a consistent prone position.
It was really simple but it was a good test of your fitness, pacing/strategy, and ability to get into a consistent prone position.
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Shot on of those at a .22 match, had to hit to move on. Not quite a KYL but a lot better than jsut blasting away at targets. Made me really think hard before I took my last shot to clean the stage. (No hit or miss with that one, one shot is what you get. Unlike a true KYL, missing did not mean losing already earned points.
It’s not about feeling discouraged. It’s about using your mind and strategy. Matches aren’t life and death. You get a 0 big deal. You learn for next time. It’s people complaining that have taken these stages and even the ones like you describe out of matches and now it’s place rifle on bag on prop and shoot and then move and do same.
You don't earn the points until the stage is done. If you fling a round into the dirt 10 feet from you, DQ. You don't take the points with you. Half the stage of a TRUE kyl rack is the mental pressure to keep going or stop. If you are behind the leader do you go for an extra point or 2 to close the gap? Do you hold at say 3 targets hit and accept it knowing you might pressure dudes into trying for that one more and zeroing out? I've gotten on and lost a podium position from that one stage alone and seen guys in first drop and guys in 3rd or 4th win because of it. Competition now is way too sterile it's like Golf.
Don't even get me started on trying to get new people in the sport... nothing about the current structure is for the benefit of new people. Production is a joke.
Don't even get me started on trying to get new people in the sport... nothing about the current structure is for the benefit of new people. Production is a joke.
Maybe discourage isn't the right word. I'm just saying in a true KYL there are targets that make sense for some shooters not to engage to maximize their points, especially new shooters. Having new shooters score better by choosing to shoot less maybe strategic but isn't really fun for them.
That's just my opinion, and I can see it both ways. I don't think they're the worst or anything like that. I think the worst are unlimited round stages where whoever has the thickest barrel and wallet gets an edge lol. I think thise are exclusive to "outlaw" clubs.
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It was great. Some guys slid into prone like it was home plate and knocked the gun off target, some people went slow and steady.
Exactly the point though. It is fun. It’s part of the game. It’s not about just shooting a bunch of rounds. Ah not worth trying to discuss anyways as the pussification of the sport dumped the true KYL anyways.
The only way to keep an outlaw style match viable these days is to be a large and well established venue or location. People do want that national organization to be a part of their experience.
I do miss those days.
I do miss those days.
Major Land had a good one last year & for me it was the last stage of the match.
At start carry all gear to dual pistol racks & ground rifle. You and your partner must clear all pistol plates, pick up rifle and run up hill a couple hundred yards to find a UKD KYL (miss a plate zero for rifle score). Sneaky MD put the KYL in a field where tha back berm was about 300Y. Hart racing and winded but had to hit the rack with a RF for accurate dist. I cleaned it and it was the highlight of the match for me.
I don't even know where I finished in that match, don't think they ever posted results on practicscore & I don't care. It's a great match.
At start carry all gear to dual pistol racks & ground rifle. You and your partner must clear all pistol plates, pick up rifle and run up hill a couple hundred yards to find a UKD KYL (miss a plate zero for rifle score). Sneaky MD put the KYL in a field where tha back berm was about 300Y. Hart racing and winded but had to hit the rack with a RF for accurate dist. I cleaned it and it was the highlight of the match for me.
I don't even know where I finished in that match, don't think they ever posted results on practicscore & I don't care. It's a great match.
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