- Thread starter rich56
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Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
People just don't like to deal with us folks in California because California gun laws suck. There are a lot of restrictions on certain guns. If it is not on the approved list of guns, then complications arise. This is mainly a problem for handguns and semi auto rifles. With a bolt gun there should not be any problems or liabilities. You will have to look at the laws for specifics, or I am sure someone else will be able to chime in and make a more elegant statement.
People just don't like to deal with us folks in California because California gun laws suck. There are a lot of restrictions on certain guns. If it is not on the approved list of guns, then complications arise. This is mainly a problem for handguns and semi auto rifles. With a bolt gun there should not be any problems or liabilities. You will have to look at the laws for specifics, or I am sure someone else will be able to chime in and make a more elegant statement.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rich56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Contracted to sell a .22 bolt action to a Californian FFL. Is there any special problems/liabilities I should know about? </div></div>
There should not be any trouble with a bolt action .22 sent to a California FFL. My suggestion is to get the information from the buyer regarding his FFL and contact that FFL with your questions or concerns.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rich56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Contracted to sell a .22 bolt action to a Californian FFL. Is there any special problems/liabilities I should know about? </div></div>
There should not be any trouble with a bolt action .22 sent to a California FFL. My suggestion is to get the information from the buyer regarding his FFL and contact that FFL with your questions or concerns.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
If your a dealer you need sign up for the DOJ CFLC.
If your a dealer you need sign up for the DOJ CFLC.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
Individual out of state sellers can ship directly to a CA ffl holder.
Out of state ffl holders must receive authorization from CA DOJ before shipping a firearm to a CA ffl dealer.
Stupid? Yes, silly rules we have.
Individual out of state sellers can ship directly to a CA ffl holder.
Out of state ffl holders must receive authorization from CA DOJ before shipping a firearm to a CA ffl dealer.
Stupid? Yes, silly rules we have.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there.
In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KClark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Individual out of state sellers can ship directly to a CA ffl holder.</div></div>
Most CA FFLs will not take it from an individual directly.
Jamie
Used to live there. Thank God I live in Texas!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KClark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Individual out of state sellers can ship directly to a CA ffl holder.</div></div>
Most CA FFLs will not take it from an individual directly.
Jamie
Used to live there. Thank God I live in Texas!
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there. </div></div>Those of us in Ca who have to jump through a thousand hoops to get a special gun that some asshat won't send to Ca or have to deal with morons who write thousand word diatribes about how Ca sucks thank you sincerely for your continuing support.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there. </div></div>Those of us in Ca who have to jump through a thousand hoops to get a special gun that some asshat won't send to Ca or have to deal with morons who write thousand word diatribes about how Ca sucks thank you sincerely for your continuing support.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
I receive from individuals all the time. If I have a dealer that hasn't shipped to CA since the CFLC was implemented I usually walk them through it and they're good to go.
I receive from individuals all the time. If I have a dealer that hasn't shipped to CA since the CFLC was implemented I usually walk them through it and they're good to go.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beck.jamie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KClark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Individual out of state sellers can ship directly to a CA ffl holder.</div></div>
Most CA FFLs will not take it from an individual directly.
Jamie
Used to live there. Thank God I live in Texas! </div></div>
I have never come across a dealer in CA who wouldn't accept from an individual. If I did I probably wouldn't do business with them because if they don't know the law then they deserve a wide berth.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beck.jamie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KClark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Individual out of state sellers can ship directly to a CA ffl holder.</div></div>
Most CA FFLs will not take it from an individual directly.
Jamie
Used to live there. Thank God I live in Texas! </div></div>
I have never come across a dealer in CA who wouldn't accept from an individual. If I did I probably wouldn't do business with them because if they don't know the law then they deserve a wide berth.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there. </div></div>Those of us in Ca who have to jump through a thousand hoops to get a special gun that some asshat won't send to Ca or have to deal with morons who write thousand word diatribes about how Ca sucks thank you sincerely for your continuing support. </div></div>
So I am an asshat because I choose not to sell a firearm to someone in PRK....That is my right to make that choice, do not see why that makes me an Asshat. a lot of other individuals, FFLs and manufacturers have also made that choice to be Asshats. Your mad at us because of the State you choose to live in?
Guess that is like me calling you an Asshat because you live in PRK and PRK is Boycotting AZ over our immigration law.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there. </div></div>Those of us in Ca who have to jump through a thousand hoops to get a special gun that some asshat won't send to Ca or have to deal with morons who write thousand word diatribes about how Ca sucks thank you sincerely for your continuing support. </div></div>
So I am an asshat because I choose not to sell a firearm to someone in PRK....That is my right to make that choice, do not see why that makes me an Asshat. a lot of other individuals, FFLs and manufacturers have also made that choice to be Asshats. Your mad at us because of the State you choose to live in?
Guess that is like me calling you an Asshat because you live in PRK and PRK is Boycotting AZ over our immigration law.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there. </div></div>Those of us in Ca who have to jump through a thousand hoops to get a special gun that some asshat won't send to Ca or have to deal with morons who write thousand word diatribes about how Ca sucks thank you sincerely for your continuing support. </div></div>
So I am an asshat because I choose not to sell a firearm to someone in PRK....That is my right to make that choice, do not see why that makes me an Asshat. a lot of other individuals, FFLs and manufacturers have also made that choice to be Asshats. Your mad at us because of the State you choose to live in?
Guess that is like me calling you an Asshat because you live in PRK and PRK is Boycotting AZ over our immigration law. </div></div>It costs you nothing(except sales) and causes you no damage. So why then?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all honesty it's really not that onerous of a process for dealers. You sign up, and then before you ship go onto their website, fill out a couple of basic fields, and then get the approval number instantly. Stick it in the box, and ship it out - you're done. We sell to dealers and individuals in California on a regular basis, and have no problems with the process. On the one occasion I had to contact the office in charge of the online approvals, they answered quickly and were extremely helpful. It's a completely unnecessary and pointless extra step, but we'll still do it in order to provide products to people out there. </div></div>Those of us in Ca who have to jump through a thousand hoops to get a special gun that some asshat won't send to Ca or have to deal with morons who write thousand word diatribes about how Ca sucks thank you sincerely for your continuing support. </div></div>
So I am an asshat because I choose not to sell a firearm to someone in PRK....That is my right to make that choice, do not see why that makes me an Asshat. a lot of other individuals, FFLs and manufacturers have also made that choice to be Asshats. Your mad at us because of the State you choose to live in?
Guess that is like me calling you an Asshat because you live in PRK and PRK is Boycotting AZ over our immigration law. </div></div>It costs you nothing(except sales) and causes you no damage. So why then?
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It costs you nothing(except sales) and causes you no damage. So why then? </div></div>
I started out not selling to California years ago when I was a Firearm manufacturer. Mostly because of a Liability stand point. After researching the Stance California has about Firearm Liability and responsibility, if anything Criminal is ever done (with a firearm I made) in that state, I can be held partly responsible for making it and shipping it to California and be dragged into court because of that. While that can happen anywhere, I felt with the excessively restrictive firearms laws in your state, that would make a legal battle harder and I just feel like People in California are a little more Sue happy....That means whether or not I am resolved of any liability, I am still out thousands of dollars in Lawyer fees. I was not a large Manufacturer with deep pockets. At the time, the Financial gain that might have been made to me did not outweigh the possible financial risks involved. Even if it went to a Police Department and they used it, I could still have been sued.
Now I am no longer a FFL holder. But, I still have a Liability thought hanging in my head. I am also in a Border State of PRK, so at the gun shows, I have gotten a Lot of people from California over the last few years wanting to buy a firearm from me as a private individual (and I am selling as a private individual). I do not want to have the risk/possibility of going to jail or whatever because they came here to buy a firearm privately and bring it back there without going through a FFL....and yes, I can be held criminally responsible along with the buyer. I am also very tired of people from California asking me to ship them high capacity magazines, or to take them apart and ship the parts in separate packages as "Replacement" parts.
I am not saying you have done any of these things, or would do any of these things. But just like you are throwing me into the Asshat group because of me personal choice, you are also getting thrown into that group because of the state you live in.
Majority of the Firearms I deal with (and might consider selling out of my collection) are not on the California friendly list….now If I was selling something like Cowboy Action firearms/bolt guns/crack barrel shotguns, I might be a little more inclined to ship to a FFL in your state.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It costs you nothing(except sales) and causes you no damage. So why then? </div></div>
I started out not selling to California years ago when I was a Firearm manufacturer. Mostly because of a Liability stand point. After researching the Stance California has about Firearm Liability and responsibility, if anything Criminal is ever done (with a firearm I made) in that state, I can be held partly responsible for making it and shipping it to California and be dragged into court because of that. While that can happen anywhere, I felt with the excessively restrictive firearms laws in your state, that would make a legal battle harder and I just feel like People in California are a little more Sue happy....That means whether or not I am resolved of any liability, I am still out thousands of dollars in Lawyer fees. I was not a large Manufacturer with deep pockets. At the time, the Financial gain that might have been made to me did not outweigh the possible financial risks involved. Even if it went to a Police Department and they used it, I could still have been sued.
Now I am no longer a FFL holder. But, I still have a Liability thought hanging in my head. I am also in a Border State of PRK, so at the gun shows, I have gotten a Lot of people from California over the last few years wanting to buy a firearm from me as a private individual (and I am selling as a private individual). I do not want to have the risk/possibility of going to jail or whatever because they came here to buy a firearm privately and bring it back there without going through a FFL....and yes, I can be held criminally responsible along with the buyer. I am also very tired of people from California asking me to ship them high capacity magazines, or to take them apart and ship the parts in separate packages as "Replacement" parts.
I am not saying you have done any of these things, or would do any of these things. But just like you are throwing me into the Asshat group because of me personal choice, you are also getting thrown into that group because of the state you live in.
Majority of the Firearms I deal with (and might consider selling out of my collection) are not on the California friendly list….now If I was selling something like Cowboy Action firearms/bolt guns/crack barrel shotguns, I might be a little more inclined to ship to a FFL in your state.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am also very tired of people from California asking me to ship them high capacity magazines, or to take them apart and ship the parts in separate packages as "Replacement" parts.</div></div>
It is legal to do this, and as long as the magazine is disassembled down to it's basic parts, there is no requirement to ship the parts in separate packages...interesting laws...eh?
TC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am also very tired of people from California asking me to ship them high capacity magazines, or to take them apart and ship the parts in separate packages as "Replacement" parts.</div></div>
It is legal to do this, and as long as the magazine is disassembled down to it's basic parts, there is no requirement to ship the parts in separate packages...interesting laws...eh?
TC
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
I love how everyone cusses Ca laws (I do too). But what people in other states dont realize or are shorsighted about, is we are the tip of the spear. What starts being implemented here, can and will spread. The gun community doesnt stick together and support each other, it will fall to anti-gun liberals, then none of us will be able to ship a slingshot anywhere.
I love how everyone cusses Ca laws (I do too). But what people in other states dont realize or are shorsighted about, is we are the tip of the spear. What starts being implemented here, can and will spread. The gun community doesnt stick together and support each other, it will fall to anti-gun liberals, then none of us will be able to ship a slingshot anywhere.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love how everyone cusses Ca laws (I do too). But what people in other states dont realize or are shorsighted about, is we are the tip of the spear. What starts being implemented here, can and will spread. The gun community doesnt stick together and support each other, it will fall to anti-gun liberals, then none of us will be able to ship a slingshot anywhere. </div></div>
Very well said. My thoughts exactly.
The troubles for an out of state FFL to get the shipping approval slip is a matter of minutes on the computer. To set up a company with an FFL in CA is a lot of hoops and time. Many cities and counties won't even consider allowing it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love how everyone cusses Ca laws (I do too). But what people in other states dont realize or are shorsighted about, is we are the tip of the spear. What starts being implemented here, can and will spread. The gun community doesnt stick together and support each other, it will fall to anti-gun liberals, then none of us will be able to ship a slingshot anywhere. </div></div>
Very well said. My thoughts exactly.
The troubles for an out of state FFL to get the shipping approval slip is a matter of minutes on the computer. To set up a company with an FFL in CA is a lot of hoops and time. Many cities and counties won't even consider allowing it.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
What many are ignorant about are the many successful lawsuits that California residents have brought over the last decade and a half and won to defend 2A rights.
These victories have dramatically changed CA Law and affected governmental policies all the way down to the individual LE officer. How many of the critics would spend THEIR money on legal fees over 12 years to take a case to the Supreme Court to change governmental policy?
No volunteers...???
Yeah...I thought so...
A victory in California causes a ripple effect that changes the legal climate in other states as well.
So all of you who are typing on your computers whining about the extra burden that making a two minute phone call adds to the process of shipping a firearm into California should ask themselves what have they done in the fight against the very real and powerful international lobbies that would like to take away YOUR guns and YOUR business?
Don't you understand that by refusing to ship to CA, you are playing right into their hands, and that was their intention all along. If they can't ban guns outright, their back-up strategy is to discourage gun ownership with bureaucratic red tape.
So wake up and don't fall for it!. Instead of criticizing you should be supporting CA gun owners who are on the front lines in this fight...after all, it's your fight too.
But hey... if you don't want to ship guns into CA....that probably works out too...just keep on whining while your competition earns their profits.
TC
What many are ignorant about are the many successful lawsuits that California residents have brought over the last decade and a half and won to defend 2A rights.
These victories have dramatically changed CA Law and affected governmental policies all the way down to the individual LE officer. How many of the critics would spend THEIR money on legal fees over 12 years to take a case to the Supreme Court to change governmental policy?
No volunteers...???
Yeah...I thought so...
A victory in California causes a ripple effect that changes the legal climate in other states as well.
So all of you who are typing on your computers whining about the extra burden that making a two minute phone call adds to the process of shipping a firearm into California should ask themselves what have they done in the fight against the very real and powerful international lobbies that would like to take away YOUR guns and YOUR business?
Don't you understand that by refusing to ship to CA, you are playing right into their hands, and that was their intention all along. If they can't ban guns outright, their back-up strategy is to discourage gun ownership with bureaucratic red tape.
So wake up and don't fall for it!. Instead of criticizing you should be supporting CA gun owners who are on the front lines in this fight...after all, it's your fight too.
But hey... if you don't want to ship guns into CA....that probably works out too...just keep on whining while your competition earns their profits.
TC
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
This is a good reference to most questions to shipping to CA.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/
I believe people, of course, have the right not do business with CA but in my opinion if we don't help our brothers in CA in their right to own/use/purchase/sale firearms then the anti-gun people win! Think about it, if they just make to process too hard that people give up on the process then THEY win. Yeah it might be a pain the in arss but until the good people of CA can turn that ship around this how they have to put up with the laws.
As I understand it as an out of state seller you can ship from you (non-FFL) to a FFL in CA as long as the CA FFL accepts non-FFL shipments. Source I think there is a lot of myth with doing firearm sales to CA residents.
Thanks,
Kyle
This is a good reference to most questions to shipping to CA.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/
I believe people, of course, have the right not do business with CA but in my opinion if we don't help our brothers in CA in their right to own/use/purchase/sale firearms then the anti-gun people win! Think about it, if they just make to process too hard that people give up on the process then THEY win. Yeah it might be a pain the in arss but until the good people of CA can turn that ship around this how they have to put up with the laws.
As I understand it as an out of state seller you can ship from you (non-FFL) to a FFL in CA as long as the CA FFL accepts non-FFL shipments. Source I think there is a lot of myth with doing firearm sales to CA residents.
Thanks,
Kyle
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What many are ignorant about are the many successful lawsuits that California residents have brought over the last decade and a half and won to defend 2A rights.
These victories have dramatically changed CA Law and affected governmental policies all the way down to the individual LE officer. How many of the critics would spend THEIR money on legal fees over 12 years to take a case to the Supreme Court to change governmental policy?
No volunteers...???
Yeah...I thought so...
A victory in California causes a ripple effect that changes the legal climate in other states as well.
So all of you who are typing on your computers whining about the extra burden that making a two minute phone call adds to the process of shipping a firearm into California should ask themselves what have they done in the fight against the very real and powerful international lobbies that would like to take away YOUR guns and YOUR business?
Don't you understand that by refusing to ship to CA, you are playing right into their hands, and that was their intention all along. If they can't ban guns outright, their back-up strategy is to discourage gun ownership with bureaucratic red tape.
So wake up and don't fall for it!. Instead of criticizing you should be supporting CA gun owners who are on the front lines in this fight...after all, it's your fight too.
But hey... if you don't want to ship guns into CA....that probably works out too...just keep on whining while your competition earns their profits.
TC </div></div>
Wasn't going to comment but the more self serving posts I read and being referred to as an "ASSHAT" WE(the rest of the US) aren't CA's housekeepers are we??
So you're saying that some numnuts in CA decides to ban something or implement stricter gun laws and WE as in the other 49 states are obligated to spend our money, be inconvenienced or disassemble mags and break the CA laws to overturn what someone in CA started??? Guess that makes sense if you are in <span style="font-weight: bold">CA </span>?
Funny how the CA residents have no issues with calling the rest of us "ASSHATS" because some of us refuse to help them clean their own house of garbage? I think the residents of CA should rally to remove a few congress members themselves instead of name calling gun owners in other states! Guess 'our' opinion isn't important?
Now you can call other members names and insult them for not supporting CA gun laws? Then you can 'blame' me for what happens where you live and threaten me that your horseshit gunlaws will spread to MY state IF I don't 'help' you???? Sounds like a real narcissistic attitude? Thought it was just Hollyweird that had that attitude? Blame us for what happens where you live! Suppose it is 'our' fault CA's enconomy is in the shitter? Still can't beleive your present Governor with what he said about the 'stimulus' money, "CA will take any money that other states refuse" or something similar. Makes me proud that CA has no shame with taking money from taxpayers from other states in an attempt to correct the mess they made.
Clean up your own state, starting with the illegals! Instead of insulting AZ and making fun of them perhaps supporting them might be more beneficial?? Legalize more pot, that should create more income? Laying blame on the rest of the country is easier perahaps???
Now run me into the dirt but I am not going to argue with anyone here. I personally have no issues with anyone from CA but sure get tired of hearing some of the comments from CA residents on gun forums. Seems it is easier to pass the buck so to speak.
I have conversed with and done business with some fine gentleman from CA and this post is not directed at them, just a general rant to those of you who think WE owe you!!!! This is my first and last comment on this subject.
Respectfully,
Dennis
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What many are ignorant about are the many successful lawsuits that California residents have brought over the last decade and a half and won to defend 2A rights.
These victories have dramatically changed CA Law and affected governmental policies all the way down to the individual LE officer. How many of the critics would spend THEIR money on legal fees over 12 years to take a case to the Supreme Court to change governmental policy?
No volunteers...???
Yeah...I thought so...
A victory in California causes a ripple effect that changes the legal climate in other states as well.
So all of you who are typing on your computers whining about the extra burden that making a two minute phone call adds to the process of shipping a firearm into California should ask themselves what have they done in the fight against the very real and powerful international lobbies that would like to take away YOUR guns and YOUR business?
Don't you understand that by refusing to ship to CA, you are playing right into their hands, and that was their intention all along. If they can't ban guns outright, their back-up strategy is to discourage gun ownership with bureaucratic red tape.
So wake up and don't fall for it!. Instead of criticizing you should be supporting CA gun owners who are on the front lines in this fight...after all, it's your fight too.
But hey... if you don't want to ship guns into CA....that probably works out too...just keep on whining while your competition earns their profits.
TC </div></div>
Wasn't going to comment but the more self serving posts I read and being referred to as an "ASSHAT" WE(the rest of the US) aren't CA's housekeepers are we??
So you're saying that some numnuts in CA decides to ban something or implement stricter gun laws and WE as in the other 49 states are obligated to spend our money, be inconvenienced or disassemble mags and break the CA laws to overturn what someone in CA started??? Guess that makes sense if you are in <span style="font-weight: bold">CA </span>?
Funny how the CA residents have no issues with calling the rest of us "ASSHATS" because some of us refuse to help them clean their own house of garbage? I think the residents of CA should rally to remove a few congress members themselves instead of name calling gun owners in other states! Guess 'our' opinion isn't important?
Now you can call other members names and insult them for not supporting CA gun laws? Then you can 'blame' me for what happens where you live and threaten me that your horseshit gunlaws will spread to MY state IF I don't 'help' you???? Sounds like a real narcissistic attitude? Thought it was just Hollyweird that had that attitude? Blame us for what happens where you live! Suppose it is 'our' fault CA's enconomy is in the shitter? Still can't beleive your present Governor with what he said about the 'stimulus' money, "CA will take any money that other states refuse" or something similar. Makes me proud that CA has no shame with taking money from taxpayers from other states in an attempt to correct the mess they made.
Clean up your own state, starting with the illegals! Instead of insulting AZ and making fun of them perhaps supporting them might be more beneficial?? Legalize more pot, that should create more income? Laying blame on the rest of the country is easier perahaps???
Now run me into the dirt but I am not going to argue with anyone here. I personally have no issues with anyone from CA but sure get tired of hearing some of the comments from CA residents on gun forums. Seems it is easier to pass the buck so to speak.
I have conversed with and done business with some fine gentleman from CA and this post is not directed at them, just a general rant to those of you who think WE owe you!!!! This is my first and last comment on this subject.
Respectfully,
Dennis
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What many are ignorant about are the many successful lawsuits that California residents have brought over the last decade and a half and won to defend 2A rights.
These victories have dramatically changed CA Law and affected governmental policies all the way down to the individual LE officer. How many of the critics would spend THEIR money on legal fees over 12 years to take a case to the Supreme Court to change governmental policy?
No volunteers...???
Yeah...I thought so...
A victory in California causes a ripple effect that changes the legal climate in other states as well.
So all of you who are typing on your computers whining about the extra burden that making a two minute phone call adds to the process of shipping a firearm into California should ask themselves what have they done in the fight against the very real and powerful international lobbies that would like to take away YOUR guns and YOUR business?
Don't you understand that by refusing to ship to CA, you are playing right into their hands, and that was their intention all along. If they can't ban guns outright, their back-up strategy is to discourage gun ownership with bureaucratic red tape.
So wake up and don't fall for it!. Instead of criticizing you should be supporting CA gun owners who are on the front lines in this fight...after all, it's your fight too.
But hey... if you don't want to ship guns into CA....that probably works out too...just keep on whining while your competition earns their profits.
TC </div></div>
Wasn't going to comment but the more self serving posts I read and being referred to as an "ASSHAT" WE(the rest of the US) aren't CA's housekeepers are we??
So you're saying that some numnuts in CA decides to ban something or implement stricter gun laws and WE as in the other 49 states are obligated to spend our money, be inconvenienced or disassemble mags and break the CA laws to overturn what someone in CA started??? Guess that makes sense if you are in <span style="font-weight: bold">CA </span>?
Funny how the CA residents have no issues with calling the rest of us "ASSHATS" because some of us refuse to help them clean their own house of garbage? I think the residents of CA should rally to remove a few congress members themselves instead of name calling gun owners in other states! Guess 'our' opinion isn't important?
Now you can call other members names and insult them for not supporting CA gun laws? Then you can 'blame' me for what happens where you live and threaten me that your horseshit gunlaws will spread to MY state IF I don't 'help' you???? Sounds like a real narcissistic attitude? Thought it was just Hollyweird that had that attitude? Blame us for what happens where you live! Suppose it is 'our' fault CA's enconomy is in the shitter? Still can't beleive your present Governor with what he said about the 'stimulus' money, "CA will take any money that other states refuse" or something similar. Makes me proud that CA has no shame with taking money from taxpayers from other states in an attempt to correct the mess they made.
Clean up your own state, starting with the illegals! Instead of insulting AZ and making fun of them perhaps supporting them might be more beneficial?? Legalize more pot, that should create more income? Laying blame on the rest of the country is easier perahaps???
Now run me into the dirt but I am not going to argue with anyone here. I personally have no issues with anyone from CA but sure get tired of hearing some of the comments from CA residents on gun forums. Seems it is easier to pass the buck so to speak.
I have conversed with and done business with some fine gentleman from CA and this post is not directed at them, just a general rant to those of you who think WE owe you!!!! This is my first and last comment on this subject.
Respectfully,
Dennis </div></div>I don't recall anyone here saying we are owed anything other than the same consideration you would give a customer standing in your store. Tell me, where exactly would you have us start to change this state? With the overwhelming Democratic and anti gun majority in the legislature? The Democratic or anti gun slouches in key positions such as Governor or Attorney General? The huge Democratic and anti gun majority in the Us Senate and HoR seats? This state will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be saved at the voting booth. Never.
It will only be saved through the courts or as a last resort, from the rooftops. And when the anti gun politicians and whack jobs start invading your states and trying to change your laws to their benefit, you will wonder where these idiots got their ideas, and the answer will be, California. It's like a cancer. We are under equipped to kill it and we are simply asking for you not to be compliant and complicit in their nefarious schemes. Every guy that refuses to ship to Ca is playing right into their plans.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What many are ignorant about are the many successful lawsuits that California residents have brought over the last decade and a half and won to defend 2A rights.
These victories have dramatically changed CA Law and affected governmental policies all the way down to the individual LE officer. How many of the critics would spend THEIR money on legal fees over 12 years to take a case to the Supreme Court to change governmental policy?
No volunteers...???
Yeah...I thought so...
A victory in California causes a ripple effect that changes the legal climate in other states as well.
So all of you who are typing on your computers whining about the extra burden that making a two minute phone call adds to the process of shipping a firearm into California should ask themselves what have they done in the fight against the very real and powerful international lobbies that would like to take away YOUR guns and YOUR business?
Don't you understand that by refusing to ship to CA, you are playing right into their hands, and that was their intention all along. If they can't ban guns outright, their back-up strategy is to discourage gun ownership with bureaucratic red tape.
So wake up and don't fall for it!. Instead of criticizing you should be supporting CA gun owners who are on the front lines in this fight...after all, it's your fight too.
But hey... if you don't want to ship guns into CA....that probably works out too...just keep on whining while your competition earns their profits.
TC </div></div>
Wasn't going to comment but the more self serving posts I read and being referred to as an "ASSHAT" WE(the rest of the US) aren't CA's housekeepers are we??
So you're saying that some numnuts in CA decides to ban something or implement stricter gun laws and WE as in the other 49 states are obligated to spend our money, be inconvenienced or disassemble mags and break the CA laws to overturn what someone in CA started??? Guess that makes sense if you are in <span style="font-weight: bold">CA </span>?
Funny how the CA residents have no issues with calling the rest of us "ASSHATS" because some of us refuse to help them clean their own house of garbage? I think the residents of CA should rally to remove a few congress members themselves instead of name calling gun owners in other states! Guess 'our' opinion isn't important?
Now you can call other members names and insult them for not supporting CA gun laws? Then you can 'blame' me for what happens where you live and threaten me that your horseshit gunlaws will spread to MY state IF I don't 'help' you???? Sounds like a real narcissistic attitude? Thought it was just Hollyweird that had that attitude? Blame us for what happens where you live! Suppose it is 'our' fault CA's enconomy is in the shitter? Still can't beleive your present Governor with what he said about the 'stimulus' money, "CA will take any money that other states refuse" or something similar. Makes me proud that CA has no shame with taking money from taxpayers from other states in an attempt to correct the mess they made.
Clean up your own state, starting with the illegals! Instead of insulting AZ and making fun of them perhaps supporting them might be more beneficial?? Legalize more pot, that should create more income? Laying blame on the rest of the country is easier perahaps???
Now run me into the dirt but I am not going to argue with anyone here. I personally have no issues with anyone from CA but sure get tired of hearing some of the comments from CA residents on gun forums. Seems it is easier to pass the buck so to speak.
I have conversed with and done business with some fine gentleman from CA and this post is not directed at them, just a general rant to those of you who think WE owe you!!!! This is my first and last comment on this subject.
Respectfully,
Dennis </div></div>I don't recall anyone here saying we are owed anything other than the same consideration you would give a customer standing in your store. Tell me, where exactly would you have us start to change this state? With the overwhelming Democratic and anti gun majority in the legislature? The Democratic or anti gun slouches in key positions such as Governor or Attorney General? The huge Democratic and anti gun majority in the Us Senate and HoR seats? This state will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be saved at the voting booth. Never.
It will only be saved through the courts or as a last resort, from the rooftops. And when the anti gun politicians and whack jobs start invading your states and trying to change your laws to their benefit, you will wonder where these idiots got their ideas, and the answer will be, California. It's like a cancer. We are under equipped to kill it and we are simply asking for you not to be compliant and complicit in their nefarious schemes. Every guy that refuses to ship to Ca is playing right into their plans.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
And another thing, do you refuse to ship to Maryland, or Illinois, or DC (well, yes
)or North Carolina or Colorado? If you haven't been paying attention, these are the states that have produced or will produce the next sea changes in gun rights.
And another thing, do you refuse to ship to Maryland, or Illinois, or DC (well, yes
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
An individual can ship to a dealer in Calif. w/ no problems. A dealer to dealer transfer is different. I got this info from a well respected dealer & gunsmith (they are here on the site). I have sold 2 different 22 caliber rifles to the same guy (also here on the site) and used that dealer.
An individual can ship to a dealer in Calif. w/ no problems. A dealer to dealer transfer is different. I got this info from a well respected dealer & gunsmith (they are here on the site). I have sold 2 different 22 caliber rifles to the same guy (also here on the site) and used that dealer.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And another thing, do you refuse to ship to Maryland, or Illinois, or DC (well, yes )or North Carolina or Colorado? If you haven't been paying attention, these are the states that have produced or will produce the next sea changes in gun rights.</div></div>
I'm in agreement with hill billy here. Except, let me substitute "asshat" for "people who don't understand the full ramification of the anti-gun drive in California." I don't think trading insults in this issue will solve anything.
The truth shocked me when I just got back from Nevada this past October. A State well known for it's pro-gun stance has now gone hard-line against guns. When the whole background check thing came about, some money-grubbing politician thought to themselves, there's gold in them thar gun loving people. So, about turn of the century, it started costing Nevadans something like $75.00 to clear a background check to buy ANY firearm. It's called the <span style="text-decoration: underline">Brady Point of Sale Account</span>. What a sham! The NICS check is already funded at the Federal level. Did I mention money-grubbing politicians? Now on this last trip I go out there and I'm hearing gun dealers out there say they can't sell me a long gun face to face per ATF regulations.
A lot of these laws are spillovers from California. The people there who still believe in individual rights are getting walked all over left and right. I see it as a bigger fight than just California, like others before me have said. their laws start spilling into the rest of the nation and pretty soon you see restrictions all over the place. Just like {edit: stopping the} allowing of crime needs to be as much of a mindset change, so does allowing governments to walk all over peoples rights.
On a different note, I know of two CA FFL's who won't accept from individuals. One is on another forum. Another is a gunshop owner in Fairfield, CA (just West of Sacramento). The mentality of both of them seems to be, I make money on the guns I sell not transfers. This is also why I see exorbitant transfer fees. FFL's in CA don't want to have guns come in. They want to move their own inventory. But, like one poster says, it's amazing the hoops you have to jump through just to get a special gun.
I hope I never see the day states can walk all over citizens rights like they do in CA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And another thing, do you refuse to ship to Maryland, or Illinois, or DC (well, yes
I'm in agreement with hill billy here. Except, let me substitute "asshat" for "people who don't understand the full ramification of the anti-gun drive in California." I don't think trading insults in this issue will solve anything.
The truth shocked me when I just got back from Nevada this past October. A State well known for it's pro-gun stance has now gone hard-line against guns. When the whole background check thing came about, some money-grubbing politician thought to themselves, there's gold in them thar gun loving people. So, about turn of the century, it started costing Nevadans something like $75.00 to clear a background check to buy ANY firearm. It's called the <span style="text-decoration: underline">Brady Point of Sale Account</span>. What a sham! The NICS check is already funded at the Federal level. Did I mention money-grubbing politicians? Now on this last trip I go out there and I'm hearing gun dealers out there say they can't sell me a long gun face to face per ATF regulations.
A lot of these laws are spillovers from California. The people there who still believe in individual rights are getting walked all over left and right. I see it as a bigger fight than just California, like others before me have said. their laws start spilling into the rest of the nation and pretty soon you see restrictions all over the place. Just like {edit: stopping the} allowing of crime needs to be as much of a mindset change, so does allowing governments to walk all over peoples rights.
On a different note, I know of two CA FFL's who won't accept from individuals. One is on another forum. Another is a gunshop owner in Fairfield, CA (just West of Sacramento). The mentality of both of them seems to be, I make money on the guns I sell not transfers. This is also why I see exorbitant transfer fees. FFL's in CA don't want to have guns come in. They want to move their own inventory. But, like one poster says, it's amazing the hoops you have to jump through just to get a special gun.
I hope I never see the day states can walk all over citizens rights like they do in CA.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hilbillee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An individual can ship to a dealer in Calif. w/ no problems. A dealer to dealer transfer is different. I got this info from a well respected dealer & gunsmith (they are here on the site). I have sold 2 different 22 caliber rifles to the same guy (also here on the site) and used that dealer. </div></div>
A dealer to dealer transfer differs only in that the shipping dealer must obtain a CFLC approval number from the DOJ. It takes about 2 minutes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hilbillee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An individual can ship to a dealer in Calif. w/ no problems. A dealer to dealer transfer is different. I got this info from a well respected dealer & gunsmith (they are here on the site). I have sold 2 different 22 caliber rifles to the same guy (also here on the site) and used that dealer. </div></div>
A dealer to dealer transfer differs only in that the shipping dealer must obtain a CFLC approval number from the DOJ. It takes about 2 minutes.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
Sometimes I think my dollars in California are not as green as dollars in other states. This board is not bad in the for sale section. Some other marketplaces make it impossible to buy something that is legal to own because people choose not to do business with is. We are the largest gun purchasing state in the nation. To knowingly refuse to sell to 10% of potential customers with the same dollars does not make sense to me.
And to sdwhirlwind, for ever tax dollar the the state of ca sends to the Feds we only get 78 cents back. For every dollar South Dakota sends to the Feds they get $1.58. I know things are messed up in our state government but if we just got back every dollar we sent to Feds back we would be in better shape. So before we are judged for our economic state please remember we are supporting many others.
Sometimes I think my dollars in California are not as green as dollars in other states. This board is not bad in the for sale section. Some other marketplaces make it impossible to buy something that is legal to own because people choose not to do business with is. We are the largest gun purchasing state in the nation. To knowingly refuse to sell to 10% of potential customers with the same dollars does not make sense to me.
And to sdwhirlwind, for ever tax dollar the the state of ca sends to the Feds we only get 78 cents back. For every dollar South Dakota sends to the Feds they get $1.58. I know things are messed up in our state government but if we just got back every dollar we sent to Feds back we would be in better shape. So before we are judged for our economic state please remember we are supporting many others.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
It's definitely not helped by the complexities of California law, that much I think everyone can agree upon. You could almost make a full-time job out of determining legality of any given item to any given municipality across the country...and most people in this industry aren't moonlighting as criminal trial lawyers to gain the needed knowledge to figure out what is or isn't legal.
It's definitely not helped by the complexities of California law, that much I think everyone can agree upon. You could almost make a full-time job out of determining legality of any given item to any given municipality across the country...and most people in this industry aren't moonlighting as criminal trial lawyers to gain the needed knowledge to figure out what is or isn't legal.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
No one in CA is asking for handouts. If we start arguing and insulting each other then the left has already won. I realize that it is often easier to say "well its not in my State, so why should I care". That is exactly what the left wants. It is a cancer that left unchecked will spread through out other states and through out federal systems. "United we stand, Divided we fall" are words that very truly apply to todays atmosphere, particularly with the firearm industry.
Voting, setting up legitimate businesses, jumping through the hoops, and supporting and donating to legal causes that effect change is about all that can be done.
To all those out of state advocates and businesses that are willing to work with us in CA, and jump through the hoops.
Thank you.
Sorry to the OP. This thread got slightly political.
No one in CA is asking for handouts. If we start arguing and insulting each other then the left has already won. I realize that it is often easier to say "well its not in my State, so why should I care". That is exactly what the left wants. It is a cancer that left unchecked will spread through out other states and through out federal systems. "United we stand, Divided we fall" are words that very truly apply to todays atmosphere, particularly with the firearm industry.
Voting, setting up legitimate businesses, jumping through the hoops, and supporting and donating to legal causes that effect change is about all that can be done.
To all those out of state advocates and businesses that are willing to work with us in CA, and jump through the hoops.
Thank you.
Sorry to the OP. This thread got slightly political.
Re: Whats the problem with sending guns to California?
This was Mark LaRue's response when criticized about not selling to California.
This was Mark LaRue's response when criticized about not selling to California.
