When Should I Stop. It's Never Ending

[Juggerxxx]

I can't seem to find an end with this 223 rifle when it will ever be clean. I run a born snake through it every time I leave the range or the field. I have cleaned it two other times with only a nylon brush. This is the third cleaning since I have had it and the round count is just shy of 1000.
You can see from the photo at what point I switched to a bronze brush and how dirty the patches turned. It seems to be getting better but only slightly. How far should I keep going? I still see copper inside the barrel when look down the barrel. Should I be doing something different or using a different chemical?
thanks

 

[Juggerxxx]

Here is the inside of the barrel where I can see copper still. Should I be concerned about removing all the copper?

 

[SubOptimal]

I ain't touching this, you don't discuss cleaning methods any more than you should discuss religion in a bar.

 

[morganlamprecht]

how does it shoot?

i have a 6mm barrel that holds some copper like that...shot lights out for 1950 rnds and then finally started slowing down...still shoots ragged holes

 

[Fursniper]

A little bit of copper is no big deal, many believe it will actually act as a bit of "lubricant". A lot of copper is a different story and can cause accuracy problems if not addressed. You did not say how the gun is shooting, has there been a loss of accuracy? Is it still shooting well? Many don't clean their rifles until they see the start of a loss of accuracy. If you had a rough throat and didn't get any copper out during the break in of your barrel, you may be now seeing the results of that, hard to say since again, we don't know how well the gun is shooting, accuracy changes if any, etc. Have you ever used a copper solvent on the bore, etc.

 

[Juggerxxx]

Thank you all for the feedback.
It has been shooting great groups during load development with two different powders last weekend. The issue I have been starting to see was more flyers than normal on three different bullets, four different powders and four different sets of brass. The barrel seems way faster than normal and for certain powder charges. The group in the attached photo is how it has been shooting but with one or two flyers that are way out there. I had not cleaned it in about 500 rounds.

 

[Fursniper]

You were shooting great groups but now you're experimenting with 3 different bullets using four different powders in 4 different kinds of brass?? REALLY? And this is all after you already have a thousand rounds on the rifle and you're still trying to get a load? If you're trying to confuse yourself you're going above and beyond, that's the craziest thing I've heard of in a long time. You should be happy with the few flyers you ARE getting! Either that or I'm totally misunderstanding what you're doing. In either event, if you want the copper out, get some copper solvent and swab away and good luck!

 

[Juggerxxx]

Your right; I'm sorry I did write those words a bit confusing. I have two pet loads that with two different bullets that I have shot ~800 of the ~1000 rounds so far with. The powder has not changed with those and the brass is kept separate and specific to those bullets and powder. Last weekend I was doing load development on the 73gr ELDs with two different powders. Going back out this weekend for more load development on the same 73gr ELDs with two more different powders. Of coarse going to shoot a good amount of fowlers first to check velocity and groups with the known pet loads to see how the cleaning went.

 

[T2CH]

FWIW, first off the copper and the powder fouling are layered in the bore. You remove the powder fouling but then the copper is left, clean the copper next, then clean the powder fouling again. Wash, Rinse, Repeat...

Second part is during load development I do not shoot different powders unless I clean the fouling out before shooting the second. I have seen different powders don't always like following each other and you will get sub par results. Your shooting foulers with your pet loads but do the pet loads use the same powder? If not your first couple of groups with the test loads could be way off. Try taking extra rounds using the powder your testing and foul the bore with those if they are different.

I have found I can rarely get a new load developed in a new gun in one range trip. Especially if I test with two different powders. YMMV

 

[Rerun7]

If you ask 100 people you'll get 110 answers. Rule of thumb I've been using for years is not to worry about it too much unless accuracy or velocities are degrading. Otherwise you are good to go. I've also found that all of my rifles shoot better when fouled so if I over clean it takes several shots to get them shooting well again.

When you you do get ready to clean make sure you've got the right solvents. I recently switched over to kg 1 and 12 and that stuff works! Cut my cleaning time down dramatically.

 

[birddogsx3]

Agree with Rerun I got lucky and tried the KG products years ago the stuff works. I have used it to clean some old ass WWII mauser barrels good stuff.

 

[gigamortis]

For barrel cleaning, I run 10 passes of a nylon brush wet with Boretech Eliminator to loosen up the big stuff. Next is a dry patch to push that stuff out. Final phase is Gunslick foaming bore cleaner for two or three 30 minute soak cycles. All my copper and powder fouling is gone with minimal tools sent down the barrel. I usually clean every 150-200 rounds. After a good cleaning like this, it usually takes 4-5 fouler shots to settle back into my usual .25 MOA groups.

 

[04JRB]

I do almost the same routine as gigamortis ^^^, but with different products. I use the wipeout / patchout products. I use the patch out first (non Foaming) on a nylon brush, dry patch(s), then the accelerator for the foam on a patch, then use the wipeout (foaming) for one or two 30 minute soaks, and dry patches after that. If Im not shooting right away, Ill use a lightly oiled patch and then a dry patch after for storage.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

That much copper I tend to think the barrel is getting a mite too hot too often.

 

[Juggerxxx]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Took the rifle out the range to verify after cleaning and all is good. Needed about 7 rounds to break the barrel in and the groups were nice and tight with zero flyers on 5 different 5 shot groups with two different powders but same bullets. As expected the velocity was 35fps and 47fps slower for the two different powders.

 

[...]

I realize this has been answerd......but ill throw my 2 cents in.

In my opinion....people clean WAY too much...and i think a lot of that cones from the military, where they require weapons be cleaned regularly.

Personally, i dont clean my bore but maybe a dozen times over the life of the barrel.....the fewer you can get away with the better.

I let my rifle tell me when, but generally every 250-300 rounds or so.

Ill run a snake after every session, just to get the junk out.

And when i use a rod, ill run a couple wet patches of copper solvent....and patch till dry......i dont worry about getting all the copper out...all im doing is mitigating buildup.......i actuakky want A bit of copper in there to keep the bore seasoned

 

[Jek11688]

I've noticed in the past that the nylon or brass brushes hold a lot of carbon, get it close to clean and run that brush back through and you think you are getting more out of the barrel when in reality your brush is contaminating the barrel. Spray that thing down or clean it in the ultrasonic.