I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere, but the search engine came up short. So. What's best for getting rid of copper build-up deep in the lands of an old barrel?
Thanks in advance for a recommendation.
Thanks in advance for a recommendation.
Gunsmithing Which Product Works Best to Remove Copper Fouling?
- Thread starter reuben.goldberg
- Start date
I like Wipe-Out foaming bore cleaner = works well!!
Can't go wrong with Hoppe's
I have had good luck with Tetra copper remover.
Thanks. I've tried Hoppe's #9, but from what I see on the net, Wipe-Out really does the job on copper.
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I like BoreTech Eliminator. Stuff will do no harm if left in the bore overnight, but works fast enough to get the worst of the copper out in a couple of hours. Depending on how old the bbl is you're working on, you might want to let Eliminator work overnight and then follow it up with some Iosso borepaste. Kinda depends on the quality of the bore you're working with, and how much stress checking/firecracking it's got.
I wouldn't clean the copper out. I only use carbon remover to clean my rifles. I think it keeps my accuracy better.
http://youtu.be/qbMuknl677A
http://youtu.be/qbMuknl677A
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Wipe-out foaming bore cleaner, and add eliminator if there's lots of copper. Doesn't hurt to run a bore brush thriught a few times to rough up the surface beforehand.
I mix 50 50 of pro shot n kroil... so far so good
I can't say I've used every product out there, but for normal use I just switched to butches and I am quite pleased. If you really really gotta get it out of there, sweets will do it.... just don't catch a wiff of it. All my cleanings are verified by bore scope, so these are not guesses.
Really love this stuff when needed. I think it was highly rated once in Gun Tests
Products « Montana X-Treme
Products « Montana X-Treme
Wipe Out - wet the bore with a patch, let sit, run wet brush for maybe 10-15 strokes after an hr or so...go do fun things, run damp patch with WipeOut the next morning until patch comes clean (usually 4-5 patches wrapped around a sub caliber brush or so for me)-done. For me copper fouling is easy, now carbon on the other hand....
Wipe Out foam and let it work a couple hours. I only use patches and jag, rarely ever use a brush...if I do it is nylon.* I'll use Iosso paste to remove carbon and to polish throat area, only after 250-300 rounds.
sweets is the only real copper remover on the market. All others compare there self's to sweets. Nothing better!! Lee
I agree. Sweets is fast at removing copper which means abbreviated cleaning time. If I am deep cleaning a bore I'd rather finish ASAP and move on to other things.
ive used them all....wipe out is all i use these days
wipe out kicks the shit out of sweets
I have been extremely pleased with Wipeout for the past several years, earlier this year I switched over to KG12 and will continue using it.
A lot has changed in the past 10 years, Sweets doesn't hold a candle to many of the newer products on the market.
A lot has changed in the past 10 years, Sweets doesn't hold a candle to many of the newer products on the market.
Someone on the hide did a very comprehensive test using most of all the copper solvent removers a bunch of years ago. They weighed copper bullets before, during and after the tests. As I remember they used Hoppe’s, Barnes, Sweets, Montana Extreme, Boretech Elininator, Shooters Choice, Wipeout as well as a few more and KG-12 copper remover. They weighed the bullets put them in a plastic Dixie cup filled with solvent. They took before during and after pictures throughout the process which if I remember correctly lasted 24 hours.
Hands down the very best copper remover was KG-12. There wasn’t even a close second, not even the ammonia based cleaners. All of the other copper solvents fought it out for a very distant 2nd and 3rd place. Also if I remember there were also tests with copper pennies and the tests results were there same. Darn CRS syndrome but if I remember correctly the KG-12 removed 100% of the copper on a penny in something like 24 to 48 hours. It was unreal. Also KG-12 is water based and supposed to be safe for barrels over extended use. As I stated this was quite a few years ago so I may be off on some of the tests and products but the results were impressive.
I used KG-12 for a while but my accuracy suffered. It would take a 1/2 dozen shots or so before my groups would settle back in. I figured KG-12 stripped the bore completely of copper. I stopped cleaning so thoroughly and use wipeout foam now. My groups stay rock solid and I don’t need fouling shots before my groups settle in. A light wash of copper fouling in the barrel is not always a bad thing, as the copper fills in a lot of the micro groves left by the machining process and helps maintain a burnish in your barrel. You don’t want layers of copper which can effect accuracy, but filling in the micro grooves can be a good thing.
OK I found KG-12's website and they have test results simular to those done by the hide member using bullets. Again there is no close 2nd place.
http://www.eabco.com/KG12Test.pdf
Hands down the very best copper remover was KG-12. There wasn’t even a close second, not even the ammonia based cleaners. All of the other copper solvents fought it out for a very distant 2nd and 3rd place. Also if I remember there were also tests with copper pennies and the tests results were there same. Darn CRS syndrome but if I remember correctly the KG-12 removed 100% of the copper on a penny in something like 24 to 48 hours. It was unreal. Also KG-12 is water based and supposed to be safe for barrels over extended use. As I stated this was quite a few years ago so I may be off on some of the tests and products but the results were impressive.
I used KG-12 for a while but my accuracy suffered. It would take a 1/2 dozen shots or so before my groups would settle back in. I figured KG-12 stripped the bore completely of copper. I stopped cleaning so thoroughly and use wipeout foam now. My groups stay rock solid and I don’t need fouling shots before my groups settle in. A light wash of copper fouling in the barrel is not always a bad thing, as the copper fills in a lot of the micro groves left by the machining process and helps maintain a burnish in your barrel. You don’t want layers of copper which can effect accuracy, but filling in the micro grooves can be a good thing.
OK I found KG-12's website and they have test results simular to those done by the hide member using bullets. Again there is no close 2nd place.
http://www.eabco.com/KG12Test.pdf
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Kg 12. Kg 12 !!!!
Bore Tech Cu+2 Copper Eliminator. So far, so good.
Best? Sweets 7.62
Best doesn't mean I'd recommend using it.
I'd recommend Butches bore shine.
Best doesn't mean I'd recommend using it.
I'd recommend Butches bore shine.
FWIW, Will not say they are the best, but I've found MP-7 pro copper solvent to be effective in removing copper as is Shooter's Choice Aqua Clean.
as posted, many "work", but there is only 1 BEST... KG12
NOTHING else is remotely close to what KG12 will do and not harm the gun...
NOTHING else is remotely close to what KG12 will do and not harm the gun...
Been using a Hawkeye borescope for the past 8-9yrs; in every single one of my custom bbl with a lapped bore, I see pretty much the same thing - some copper fouling out at the muzzle, sometimes extending back as far as 2"-3". Krieger's explanation is that a minute amount of copper is vaporized off the base of each bullet when it's fired, and when the bullet exits the muzzle, temp & pressure inside the bore drops off instantly, which causes the copper to come out of the vaporized state and be deposited in the bore at that point. I see the same thing no matter what the length of the bbl is, from 20" AR15 SR bbls to 30" 308 Palma bbls. It's not difficult to get rid of copper of this sort - just let BoreTech Eliminator work on it for a few hours, and it's gone, without the use of abrasive cleaners.
The Hawkeye tells me when I need to use IOSSO bore paste to get rid of carbon build-up in the throat - round count varies somewhat depending on bore dia & what type of powder I'm using, but is typically around 150-200rds.
If you're shooting a factory bbl or a custom with a lot of rounds through it and rougher bore finish, you may see copper fouling throughout the bore, and need to clean more often. But in both these cases, you also might be better off not to clean down to 'bare metal', unless you want to have to blow 10-20rds through it before it settles down after filling all the firecracking/stress checking with copper & carbon again.
The Hawkeye tells me when I need to use IOSSO bore paste to get rid of carbon build-up in the throat - round count varies somewhat depending on bore dia & what type of powder I'm using, but is typically around 150-200rds.
If you're shooting a factory bbl or a custom with a lot of rounds through it and rougher bore finish, you may see copper fouling throughout the bore, and need to clean more often. But in both these cases, you also might be better off not to clean down to 'bare metal', unless you want to have to blow 10-20rds through it before it settles down after filling all the firecracking/stress checking with copper & carbon again.
1+ I use all BoreTech Products-great quality without foul odor (wife let's me clean my weapons inside the house again!) and won't damage your barrel. I use Eliminator, which cleans copper and carbon, but they make a product that clears only carbon for those of you that like to leave you copper deposits in the barrel.
Sweets is what I use.
Based on some borescope observations from several years back, I put my money on Amazon.com: Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner (12-Ounce): Sports & Outdoors
There could well be better out there, but this stuff removed everything. I am a firm believer in the concept that perfection is the enemy of good enough, and this stuff is way adequate for any needs I have.
Greg
There could well be better out there, but this stuff removed everything. I am a firm believer in the concept that perfection is the enemy of good enough, and this stuff is way adequate for any needs I have.
Greg
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I made this same mistake and assumption a few years back and was corrected rather rudely by a Mr. know it all chemist that really knew his stuff. I did some checking and he was correct and I was wrong. I am by no means trying to be rude just informative.
What Krieger told you about the copper being at the end of the muzzle being vaporized copper is incorrect, but it’s what many assume. Copper vaporizes at 4703 degrees Fahrenheit (2595 Celsius). Internal barrel temperature tests on rifle rounds being fired (even at the flash point) are usually in the 2000 to 3400 degree range Fahrenheit and don’t come close to the 4703 degree range, thus the copper on the bullet can't vaporize.
The copper at the end of the barrel is not from copper being vaporized, more likely just minute copper being picked up by the mirco-grooves from the machining process that weren’t fully lapped out during the lapping process.
Hope it helps and again not trying to be rude just informative!
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Gunslick foaming bore cleaner ...
Cheap bastard here. Go to Ace Hardware. Buy the 10% janitorial strength ammonia. Don't get regular ammonia. Go to the grocery store and buy you some gelatin. Mix ammonia and gelatin until desired thickness. It'll thicken over time, so you might have to add some more ammonia. Use on a brush, and you've got a superior product. Yes, it's that easy.
BoreTech on a brass bristle brush, KG-12, Wipe-Out, etc. If that doesn't do it, lap the barrel with diamond-lapping compound, 6 micron first, then 1 micron to finish. Do a regular cleaning after that, and expect to send one into the berm before shooting for group.
Jim
Jim
As you can see many have had luck with several products.
I've used Wipeout and Butches bore shine with good results
R
I've used Wipeout and Butches bore shine with good results
R
