I would like to get back into target shooting and teach my boys about weapons. Due to work schedules the last decade I have gotten away from shooting for fun instead of shooting for work. I would like to try my hand at longer distance (>100 yards) rimfire shooting but don't know which way to go on rifles. I already have a custom 10/22 I built several years ago while in college. It needs a McMillan stock but already has a Clark match fluted barrel and Clark trigger. My other option is to purchase a CZ 455 Varmint and then a base to go with the scope and rings I already have on the 10/22. My question is on accuracy. It has been so long since I shot the 10/22 I don't remember what size groups it would hold. Would it be that much LESS accurate than the CZ since it does have the match barrel and the CZ would have the stock, factory barrel? Can the 10/22s hold their own against the CZ or Savage bolts? What would you'll do?
- Thread starter G22inSC
- Start date
A stock cz 455 will shoot .5"-1" on average at 50 yards. If your 10/22 does better than I wouldn't buy the 455 to expect it to do better. Now a 455 with a lilja properly setup will shot way better. Any chance you could sell the 10/22 to help fund the project?
Get a 452 Deluxe and don't look back. Amazing rifles and great teaching tools - I wouldn't teach with a semi auto, personally. Shots count and having to cycle a bolt makes some significance to the fact of loosing a round.
A CZ with factory barrel will definitely hold .5" groups at 50yd, and less when properly glassbedded. Hell, my Chinese Norinco .22 (CZ clone) can hold half inch (okay okay, 5/8th"!) at 50 yards.
- boingk
A CZ with factory barrel will definitely hold .5" groups at 50yd, and less when properly glassbedded. Hell, my Chinese Norinco .22 (CZ clone) can hold half inch (okay okay, 5/8th"!) at 50 yards.
- boingk
I have both. My highly modified 10/22 is nowhere near as accurate as my CZ455PT.
I have both also. I dumped a lot of money into my 1022 and it shoots well but my $400 CZ 452 16" TB out of the box shoots as good or better. There's something about a bolt action that disciplines you to shoot more deliberately. I plan to do a trigger job to take up some creep or drop in a Timney and call it good. Shooting it with my Silencerco Sparrow is the most fun I've had with my clothes on.
My CZ 455 drills holes, I've shot .2" groups and .4" on the norm at 50 yards. Has no problems nailing pennies. It's a very fun gun! 
I would like to hear groups of the modified 10/22, Kidd barrela and all.
Mine is built with a KIDD Classic reciever, bolt, cocking lever, single stage 1.5lb trigger. The barrel is an F.J. Fedderson .920 16.25" fluted. I have over a grand in the gun and it shoots pretty damn good. In all honesty though, I don'tthink it would outshoot a CZ. I just think a nice bolt action is inheritly more accurate than a semi-auto.
Ask and ye shall receive:
My 10/22 is an older metal receiver with a KIDD barrel and Volquartsen trigger components as well as a few KIDD internals. It shoots fantastic at 50 but opens up at 100 using Eley Match. With the MANY groups I have recorded the average is sub 1/2" at 50 and about 1.5" at 100. As you explore and see some of my posts - I don't subscribe to the "All Day Long" or "If I do my part" theories.
A few cherry picked targets all shot on the same day at 50. The top 2 groups are 10 rounds and the others are 5:
The CZ is a great rifle and a fantastic choice - especially for the price; but I have yet to have a stock CZ that shot better than my 10/22 at 50.
With that said; as a general rule, it is true that a bolt action is inherently "more" accurate - but that is a stock model to stock model comparison. A properly set up 10/22 is usually going to shoot as well or better than a stock rifle (excluding the high end target rifles like the Annies) when the right ammo for the barrel is used. Your 10/22 already has a good head start.
Lest someone say that I am just defending my personal investment... my 100 yard gun is a true, documented 1.045" bolt action Rem 40XB... but to flippantly say that a custom 10/22 won't shoot with a stock CZ is a fallacy.
~ Rico
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I also have both and I would definite buy the CZ if I was starting out with nothing, but you need to try your Ruger to see how it shoots. If it doesn't meet your standard then sell it if funding is an issue and pick up a CZ or a used Oregano Kimber.
Hmmmm, bolt vs semi-auto....seems to me that the bolt gun gets the edge
as the semi-auto trajectories will vary depending on the ever changing
frictive forces on the semi-auto bolt. Bad enough that 22lr round has quality
control issues that affect the trajectories, without tallying in the pressure changes
caused by blowback deposits in the action of a semi-auto that vary the speed of the action
as the days shooting progresses. Bolt recoil time on a semi-auto needs to be consistent
each and every time a round is fired in order to maintain consistent trajectories.
I know my semi-auto rimfires, both pistol and rifle, lose accuracy as GSR deposits
in the action affect bolt cycling times.
as the semi-auto trajectories will vary depending on the ever changing
frictive forces on the semi-auto bolt. Bad enough that 22lr round has quality
control issues that affect the trajectories, without tallying in the pressure changes
caused by blowback deposits in the action of a semi-auto that vary the speed of the action
as the days shooting progresses. Bolt recoil time on a semi-auto needs to be consistent
each and every time a round is fired in order to maintain consistent trajectories.
I know my semi-auto rimfires, both pistol and rifle, lose accuracy as GSR deposits
in the action affect bolt cycling times.
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As a teaching rifle in my opinion it is best to teach with a bolt action rifle, children lack self control like us adults when we are having fun and blow everything up in sight.
I guess I should have been more specific. This is just a play toy for me right now since the kids are still too small. I will definitely start them out with a small, single-shot bolt and work up from there. The 10/22 or CZ is just for me to play with at the range while they learn the fundamentals on their own "little" gun.
I agree that a bolt action makes the better teaching tool. It encourages more deliberate shooting. Either of your choices should provide sufficient accuracy to accomplish your task. Read BM11's thread in the stickies here on the RF forum. It will prove very instructive regarding some of your questions.
Three things are clear from BM11's post: You will not realize your rifle's inherent accuracy without using quality ammo, purpose built target rifles perform at a higher level (big surprise), you do not need particularly expensive glass to get a high level of performance.
Three things are clear from BM11's post: You will not realize your rifle's inherent accuracy without using quality ammo, purpose built target rifles perform at a higher level (big surprise), you do not need particularly expensive glass to get a high level of performance.
Ask and ye shall receive:
My 10/22 is an older metal receiver with a KIDD barrel and Volquartsen trigger components as well as a few KIDD internals. It shoots fantastic at 50 but opens up at 100 using Eley Match. With the MANY groups I have recorded the average is sub 1/2" at 50 and about 1.5" at 100. As you explore and see some of my posts - I don't subscribe to the "All Day Long" or "If I do my part" theories.
A few cherry picked targets all shot on the same day at 50. The top 2 groups are 10 rounds and the others are 5:
The CZ is a great rifle and a fantastic choice - especially for the price; but I have yet to have a stock CZ that shot better than my 10/22 at 50.
With that said; as a general rule, it is true that a bolt action is inherently "more" accurate - but that is a stock model to stock model comparison. A properly set up 10/22 is usually going to shoot as well or better than a stock rifle (excluding the high end target rifles like the Annies) when the right ammo for the barrel is used. Your 10/22 already has a good head start.
Lest someone say that I am just defending my personal investment... my 100 yard gun is a true, documented 1.045" bolt action Rem 40XB... but to flippantly say that a custom 10/22 won't shoot with a stock CZ is a fallacy.
~ Rico
Nice post, I'll tag my CZ along tomorrow and post up some groups. Those are some very nice groups. I've also seen mine open up at 100 yards, eley match as well.
Sounds like a great reason to buy a new toy....Gun Broker has some 452 international target models usually for around 360-400. Just get one .I would personally teach them with a bolt and iron sights,that being said....I think you should take them to the range a few times and make sure they are interested in shooting, then get them a 22 that fits them.I see kids at the range all the time shooting a rifle that does not fit them and that just builds bad habits. Just my .02 cents.Good Luck
Gotta have both. I have owned a 10/22 rifle since I was 16 years old. The thing has been modified a ton and shoots fantastic. That being said, my kids are too young to be shooting the 10/22. I have some single shot youth rifles that they are shooting and will work their way up into my CZ 452, before they get to shoot the semi auto. My 10/22 and CZ shoot great. I am not sure if one will consistently outshoot the other.
Over the last 2 years or so, I have enjoyed shooting my Sako Quad a little more than my 10/22. A big reason for that would be how incredibly quiet that bolt action is when shooting suppressed. The sound of the bullet hitting the target is the loudest thing when shooting my suppressed quad.
Over the last 2 years or so, I have enjoyed shooting my Sako Quad a little more than my 10/22. A big reason for that would be how incredibly quiet that bolt action is when shooting suppressed. The sound of the bullet hitting the target is the loudest thing when shooting my suppressed quad.
Rico,Rico;Rico
now you know, ifI do my part, I can shoot all day lon,
But I didn't say what I would hit (target, maybe ground)
OP/is it a timed match are what, is your interned use
Wish I had a 40X, any one (Rico) got a Annie MPR 64 for trade ,hinhintednt
now you know, ifI do my part, I can shoot all day lon,
But I didn't say what I would hit (target, maybe ground)
OP/is it a timed match are what, is your interned use
Wish I had a 40X, any one (Rico) got a Annie MPR 64 for trade ,hinhintednt
I have a CZ455,CZ452 and a couple of 10/22s.The stock CZ goes to the range with me all the time.Its fun to shoot and kills targets.The 10/22s have set in the safe since I picked up my CZs.Still fun to shoot the 10/22s but there is something special about a good bolt action.
'yoteman always know how to not take me too seriously and get me to chuckle! Thanks bud! And "Good Try..." but kinda think the 40X is going to be with me for a while. You're more than welcome to come visit her though!
Thank you rtc... my 40X doesn't like the Eley as much even at 50; she only eats RWS R-50 (or Federal Gold Ultra Match). Which rings back the echoes of a few posts above and throughout this forum about matching ammo to barrel.
To the OP, its your cash and I would never tell anyone how to spend it. I will say, given the facts you've shared that this is for you and the kids are too young still... if you are ANYTHING at all like me; you'll end up building an "Ultimate" style 10/22 as a "bolt gun killer." Heck, you're almost there anyway. Of course, once you have reached that pinnacle... you'll have severely caught the "bug" and you'll end up with a CZ or other bolt gun as well! Ha!
Enjoy the ride!
Thank you rtc... my 40X doesn't like the Eley as much even at 50; she only eats RWS R-50 (or Federal Gold Ultra Match). Which rings back the echoes of a few posts above and throughout this forum about matching ammo to barrel.
To the OP, its your cash and I would never tell anyone how to spend it. I will say, given the facts you've shared that this is for you and the kids are too young still... if you are ANYTHING at all like me; you'll end up building an "Ultimate" style 10/22 as a "bolt gun killer." Heck, you're almost there anyway. Of course, once you have reached that pinnacle... you'll have severely caught the "bug" and you'll end up with a CZ or other bolt gun as well! Ha!
Enjoy the ride!
Real funny, how we are willing to whore out our rifles(hope my wife dont read this)
OP like has been said many times here on the hide, everyone has there favorite,
now if you have a 10/22 set up correctly, it will shoot fine, but like all rimfire's you must spend the time to find the ammo it likes (ALL AMMO NOT THE SAME). I have said this many times,an did it myselI so based on that,pay attention,
cz455, manners stock, lija barrel,trigger, bolt knob, paint job(by short bus) $1200.00
10/22 , kKidd barrel, Kidd trigger, stock,plus action work, $900.00 Plus.
will they shoot (cz455, 10/22) hell ya. Will they out shoot my $1000.00 Annie or the couple of 40x thatI have shoot
NO!!!!!!!!
Now to the meat an tators, I have seen a cz,10/22, savage win at our tac match,(damm good shooters)
if i was you would shoot the hell out of the ruger for now,(with your boys)
find a good used mpr64 or 40x that will shoot all day long(thats for rico LOL) for the longer range.
just remimber to get a 20MOA base to get you out to 200yd plus.
ps i really do have a like new MPR 64 for sale,picked it up new years day,
just so someone either at our match, or here on the hide looking for one .
i dont need it already have one (just could not leave her at the gunshop where i know nobody,would app it)
all this is just my 2cents worth, but been there done that
Rico, don't temp me
in the planning stage of next hog hunt,
FL,GA,SC,TX don't know which yet
had a.blast last 2 years in FL, but looking to go some where new.
in the planning stage of next hog hunt,
FL,GA,SC,TX don't know which yet
had a.blast last 2 years in FL, but looking to go some where new.
Let me know where you decide... I'm not against smoking a piggy or twenty. Hell, you need to hook up a helo hunt. Did it a few years ago before it was vogue...
Buy the bolt gun to start them off with. IMHO kids go too crazy with semi-auto at first. Keep the 10/22 for later and let them mow lawns and such to earn money for upgrades.
I've been teaching kids and adults basic gun safety and marksmanship for the last 14 years. Kids will burn through a pile of ammo with semis. Bolt guns are far more efficient for teaching. I have both, but they only get to run a mag through the semi after they have proven themselves capable with the bolt gun. I kept my 10/22s and bought 4 CZ Scouts, a Varmint and an American.
Reading is fundamental... his kids are too young.
I voted other, and will say that I feel that the Savage MKII BVT is one of the most accurate .22lr bolt action rimfire rifle's I've ever shot that comes in at a good price. Nothing against the CZ, I've read to many good things about them. I can only vote on what I have experience with and I don't have a CZ to compare the Savage to. Have the Ruger.
In my opinion Savages aren't on the same level as a CZ quality wise. Also the CZ feels much much more like a big rifle, where the Savage feels kind of like a toy. Accuracy wise out of the box they may be close, with a slight edge to the CZ. But you can always install a match barrel on the CZ where you are stuck with a stock barrel on the Savage. These are of course my opinions, but I am quite biased as I am in love with the CZ actions.
Ben
Ben
right again,($h!t) hate it when rico's right ha ha!!!
sorry didnt read that, shooting off before get all the facts
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