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Rifle Scopes Who Makes the best Glass???

Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

6-2010malta002.jpg


I like the German made stuff. S&B PMII's have been great for me the past 6 years. Recently I'm carrying a Hensoldt on my work rifle(GAP .260)I'm very impressed so far.

I dont think a guy can go wrong with any of the top names out there...pick out one in your price range and go with it. One thing I wont do is throw an opinion out there on something I havent used or been around a lot.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

In lowlight conditions, I would say 1. S&B, 2. Premier, 3. USO, 4. Nightforce.

I have no first hand experience with a Hendsoldt.

Notes

S&B has very positive clicks, extremly well made, screams top notch quality, and excellent clarity in lowlight conditions.
Premier 3-15 - great quality glass, but relatively new scope in the marketplace.
USO is bomb proof. I think the most robust scope in the marketplace. Erek knob and GAP recticle are oustanding. They keep the basics simple, and they do it very well.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

I realize this is a sore subject to the long time Hide members who have probably had to endure the usual "Best of" topics. But here's a serious question: How does the industry itself judge the quality of their optics or their optics compared to their competitors? I know much of "glass quality" is subjective to the human eye, but there has got to be industry standards or methods of measurements to determine light transmission, optical clarity, resolution, color correctness, and all the other terms that we laymen bandy about.

So are there tests out there than can definitively measure a scopes optical "quality" outside of the subjective human eye? Not that we mortals in the public could do most of them, but are there ways to more objectively test or evaluate a scope instead of the usual "it just looks good to me" test?

Edit to add: and the above question is in reference to just the glass. I'm not talking about the mechanics of the scope like reticle tracking, correct mils, etc.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J3RICHO941</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to see what people consider their top ten list of optics glass quality.

"1" being the best and "10" being the worst.

I haven't looked through most of the higher end scopes, so I can't fairly judge them, but others might.

This is probably gonna be a Ford Vs. Chevy type of opinion poll, but the answers should be interesting.

These are my thoughts

1. Ziess
2. S&B
3. Premier Heritage
4. USO
5. Vortex Razor
6. IOR Valdada
7. NightForce
8. Leupold Mk4
9. Bushnell
10.Vortex Viper </div></div>

Number 1 is Zeiss? You my friend are Nuts

USO is probably the best but the difference between the top five and Valdada, Premier and VOR have no place there, there is very little difference. By the way I have owned USO, S&B and Leupold Mark 4. I like my Mark 4 on my 308 1000yard rifle the best. I have a USO on my 338 Lapua and it's also great. Very little difference. Put some good, and I mean good Badger or near hardware. That will also make a difference. Lap the rings, don't let anyone tell you that doesn't make a difference, it makes a huge difference. </div></div>

Aren't you the guy who said an M24 is nothing more than a Mil-spec 5R in a McMillan stock? </div></div>

Yes I am, and i am also the guy who posted the link to prove it. You think for some reason if the Army boys buy a Remington 700 with a 5R and stamp it M24 it makes it a mythical killing machine. It's the shooter that makes the rifle not the other way round.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J3RICHO941</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to see what people consider their top ten list of optics glass quality.

"1" being the best and "10" being the worst.

I haven't looked through most of the higher end scopes, so I can't fairly judge them, but others might.

This is probably gonna be a Ford Vs. Chevy type of opinion poll, but the answers should be interesting.

These are my thoughts

1. Ziess
2. S&B
3. Premier Heritage
4. USO
5. Vortex Razor
6. IOR Valdada
7. NightForce
8. Leupold Mk4
9. Bushnell
10.Vortex Viper </div></div>

Number 1 is Zeiss? You my friend are Nuts

USO is probably the best but the difference between the top five and Valdada, Premier and VOR have no place there, there is very little difference. By the way I have owned USO, S&B and Leupold Mark 4. I like my Mark 4 on my 308 1000yard rifle the best. I have a USO on my 338 Lapua and it's also great. Very little difference. Put some good, and I mean good Badger or near hardware. That will also make a difference. Lap the rings, don't let anyone tell you that doesn't make a difference, it makes a huge difference. </div></div>

Aren't you the guy who said an M24 is nothing more than a Mil-spec 5R in a McMillan stock? </div></div>

Yes I am, and i am also the guy who posted the link to prove it. </div></div>

I suggest you go back and re-read your link then.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I realize this is a sore subject to the long time Hide members who have probably had to endure the usual "Best of" topics. But here's a serious question: How does the industry itself judge the quality of their optics or their optics compared to their competitors? I know much of "glass quality" is subjective to the human eye, but there has got to be industry standards or methods of measurements to determine light transmission, optical clarity, resolution, color correctness, and all the other terms that we laymen bandy about.

So are there tests out there than can definitively measure a scopes optical "quality" outside of the subjective human eye? Not that we mortals in the public could do most of them, but are there ways to more objectively test or evaluate a scope instead of the usual "it just looks good to me" test?

Edit to add: and the above question is in reference to just the glass. I'm not talking about the mechanics of the scope like reticle tracking, correct mils, etc. </div></div>

Sorry to get this thread off track responding to M24 issues..... so any of you guys either in or familiar with the industry know how the actual manufacturers test and evaluate their glass quality?
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J3RICHO941</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to see what people consider their top ten list of optics glass quality.

"1" being the best and "10" being the worst.

I haven't looked through most of the higher end scopes, so I can't fairly judge them, but others might.

This is probably gonna be a Ford Vs. Chevy type of opinion poll, but the answers should be interesting.

These are my thoughts

1. Ziess
2. S&B
3. Premier Heritage
4. USO
5. Vortex Razor
6. IOR Valdada
7. NightForce
8. Leupold Mk4
9. Bushnell
10.Vortex Viper </div></div>

Number 1 is Zeiss? You my friend are Nuts

USO is probably the best but the difference between the top five and Valdada, Premier and VOR have no place there, there is very little difference. By the way I have owned USO, S&B and Leupold Mark 4. I like my Mark 4 on my 308 1000yard rifle the best. I have a USO on my 338 Lapua and it's also great. Very little difference. Put some good, and I mean good Badger or near hardware. That will also make a difference. Lap the rings, don't let anyone tell you that doesn't make a difference, it makes a huge difference. </div></div>

Aren't you the guy who said an M24 is nothing more than a Mil-spec 5R in a McMillan stock? </div></div>

Yes I am, and i am also the guy who posted the link to prove it. You think for some reason if the Army boys buy a Remington 700 with a 5R and stamp it M24 it makes it a mythical killing machine. It's the shooter that makes the rifle not the other way round. </div></div> you should probably quit now...
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I realize this is a sore subject to the long time Hide members who have probably had to endure the usual "Best of" topics. But here's a serious question: How does the industry itself judge the quality of their optics or their optics compared to their competitors? I know much of "glass quality" is subjective to the human eye, but there has got to be industry standards or methods of measurements to determine light transmission, optical clarity, resolution, color correctness, and all the other terms that we laymen bandy about.

So are there tests out there than can definitively measure a scopes optical "quality" outside of the subjective human eye? Not that we mortals in the public could do most of them, but are there ways to more objectively test or evaluate a scope instead of the usual "it just looks good to me" test?

Edit to add: and the above question is in reference to just the glass. I'm not talking about the mechanics of the scope like reticle tracking, correct mils, etc. </div></div>


Bueller?
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

The fact that there are no standards, or test within the industry, is what always turn these questions into pissing matches.

Leopold MK-4. Seriously? I mean really? Do you shoot much?
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact that there are no standards, or test within the industry, is what always turn these questions into pissing matches.

</div></div>

I never expected there to be an industry wide standard. But certainly each manufacturer ahs some kind of qualitative test they do to see how Scope X compares to their scope Y.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leopold MK-4. Seriously? I mean really? Do you shoot much? </div></div>

You weren't talking to me, were you?
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

Nope, jumping in on the bash wagon for Benchshoot. Leopold glass is decent,but to say it is better than Zeiss, S&B, and Premier, is a little far fetched. Especially when talking about the Mk4 scopes.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

just to throw it out there, I would take a Mark4 any day of the week. I have competed, and won, using them. I havent shot a match at twilight or in the dark so I wouldnt know bout light gathering. I think they really get a bad rap on here, don't get me wrong I'm sure there are many out there that are super duper badass, I just cant afford them so I go with what works for me
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

glass wise I would put Swarovski on top. S&B and Ziess second. From there USO, Premier, and so on.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

David,

Hardly, but I've actually got enough time behind a trigger and glass to know a thing or 3.

The Only good thing about lupy is CS. Other than that they are over priced and under promised. Actually it is a shame. I wouldn't mind seeing them make an honest effort to regain some notoriety with quality stuff.

jayjay,

Damn dude...Seriously? If you can swing $1200 for a MK4 you can swing $1350 for a NXS. You see them used on the Hide every week. New they are what $1500? Lupy can't hold a candle to the NXS glass not to mention the reticle choices.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

What? no Simmons? Tasco?

The best is the one with a customer service department that is in my time zone.......
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

gonna have to find one of these mythical beasts called nightforce to see if it exists and if it is worthy of all the koolaid. been shooting 33 years and never had the pleasure of even seeing one face to face. just sayin.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jayjay,

Damn dude...Seriously? If you can swing $1200 for a MK4 you can swing $1350 for a NXS. You see them used on the Hide every week. New they are what $1500? Lupy can't hold a candle to the NXS glass not to mention the reticle choices. </div></div>

this is just were we disagree. I can't afford 1,200 so usually it takes some trade in also. I'm sure they are damn fine scopes, I've toyed with a few, all I'm saying is that as soon as a Mark4 hinders my ability to WIN or shoot well, or have a ball out LR shootin, then I will think about changing brands. Again, I'm sure the NXS line is amazing but I like what I know, and I know what I like, just my personal opinion.

I knew I'd get jumped on for supporting the Mark 4 line, which I dont get but anywho, why cant anybody on here say "this is what I prefer and my OPINION is scope X has the best glass, what works for you is what works for you"? I think too often people on here get assaulted cause they don't use kit that is "the norm". like cocador, why do you feel the need to imply I'm ignorant cause I choose a scope and posted my opinion because it's not what you use or prefer? when in fact that is only your OPINION as well

sorry for the rant guys
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gonna have to find one of these mythical beasts called nightforce to see if it exists and if it is worthy of all the koolaid. been shooting 33 years and never had the pleasure of even seeing one face to face. just sayin. </div></div>

If'in you are in MO.. Go see Chris Matthews at Longshot Rifles or George Gardner at GA precision. I'm confident they both have many you can molest.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

gotta say I'd use a toilet paper roll with string as crosshairs if it worked for me, actually I think there is a brand out there with these build specs....what was it.....oh i remember BSA
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

BEST I HAVE SEEN for overall image is Zeiss Diavari and Im sure Hensoldt, Next is S&B,
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SAKOstalker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BEST I HAVE SEEN for overall image is Zeiss Diavari and Im sure Hensoldt, Next is S&B, </div></div>

I have to agree with this,only problem is they dropped the MRAD on the new 6-24 Diavari and is MOA only and bumped the price too.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gonna have to find one of these mythical beasts called nightforce to see if it exists and if it is worthy of all the koolaid. been shooting 33 years and never had the pleasure of even seeing one face to face. just sayin. </div></div>where do you shoot?
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

Interesting thread. I am not going to get into it a whole lot, but I will make a few comments:
1) Since we all have different eyes, our preferences between overall similar scopes will differ. For me personally, Hensoldt agrees with eyes very well as does Premier. S&B's fixed power scopes are up there as well, but their variables, while absolutely superb, do not look as good to my eyes as Hensoldt and Premier. I am not entirely sure why.
2) Origin of raw glass is the most overhyped attribute of a riflescope design, I have seen to date. There are several top notch raw glass makers out there who will all provide similar quality raw glass to you for about the same money (There were comments somewhere up there on the source of Leica glass, and I thought it was Corning, not Schott, but I could be wrong.
3) Hasselblad (and other medium frame camera) lenses are very good, but not as good as people make them out to be. It is not all that difficult to make a lens that works well on a large pixel.

ILya
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SAKOstalker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BEST I HAVE SEEN for overall image is Zeiss Diavari and Im sure Hensoldt...</div></div>

I have to agree with this...</div></div>

New Zeiss/Hensoldt FL lenses give even more oomph. with darkest colors and gray scales resolution difference is easy to see. (meaning if if T* and T* FL scopes are side by side.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got enough for everyone!
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Thanks for the popcorn!
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

How many out there can honestly say they didnot hit there target b/c the glass in the optic sucked in the given shooting condition and that if they had better glass they would of hit the target. Now dont get me wrong b/c I am as much of a "label whore" when it comes to my kit as anyone out there, and I love debating which is better ect, but you have to admit the optics we have today are kick ass compaired to even 20 years ago when I started shooting. I know Leupold has a bad rap on this site but I know too many people who lay there life on the line behind one every day and they get the job done. Its all great when it works and its all junk when its broke. Just my 2 cents.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I knew I'd get jumped on for supporting the Mark 4 line, which I dont get but anywho, why cant anybody on here say "this is what I prefer and my OPINION is scope X has the best glass, what works for you is what works for you"? I think too often people on here get assaulted cause they don't use kit that is "the norm". like cocador, why do you feel the need to imply I'm ignorant cause I choose a scope and posted my opinion because it's not what you use or prefer? when in fact that is only your OPINION as well

sorry for the rant guys </div></div>

I have a MK4 and a USO and sure, the USO is freakin' sweet BUT, it doesn't make me shoot any better than a set of forged Nike irons would to get me into the PGA tour. Anyone that believes otherwise doesn't shoot much. The MK4 is a great scope in its price range. If you can get a new MK4 for $300 less than say a used... whatever, not only do you get a warranty but you'll improve your skills by the amount of ammo that money will buy you. Ammunition will improve your shooting better than any scope can
wink.gif
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

quote
How many out there can honestly say they didnot hit there target b/c the glass in the optic sucked in the given shooting condition and that if they had better glass they would of hit the target. Now dont get me wrong b/c I am as much of a "label whore" when it comes to my kit as anyone out there, and I love debating which is better ect, but you have to admit the optics we have today are kick ass compaired to even 20 years ago when I started shooting. I know Leupold has a bad rap on this site but I know too many people who lay there life on the line behind one every day and they get the job done. Its all great when it works and its all junk when its broke. Just my 2 cents.
quote
I have been at a match where we were shooting a green target against green veg background with the target n the shade and the shooter in the bright sun. there were several guys that were handicapped due to their scopes not being able to pull the color out of the shade. some of the nightforce guys were even having trouble.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is just were we disagree. I can't afford 1,200 so usually it takes some trade in also. I'm sure they are damn fine scopes, I've toyed with a few, all I'm saying is that as soon as a Mark4 hinders my ability to WIN or shoot well, or have a ball out LR shootin, then I will think about changing brands. Again, I'm sure the NXS line is amazing but I like what I know, and I know what I like, just my personal opinion.

I knew I'd get jumped on for supporting the Mark 4 line, which I dont get but anywho, why cant anybody on here say "this is what I prefer and my OPINION is scope X has the best glass, what works for you is what works for you"? I think too often people on here get assaulted cause they don't use kit that is "the norm". like cocador, why do you feel the need to imply I'm ignorant cause I choose a scope and posted my opinion because it's not what you use or prefer? when in fact that is only your OPINION as well </div></div>

Give the guy a break. We all make different incomes, and have different responsibilities as well as interests outside of LR shooting. I respect anyone that uses equipment within his means, enjoys the sport, and does well with it. I'm sure he shoots better than me anyway... Don't misunderstand me, I've researched scopes in depth wanting to buy once without regrets and I'm looking at very expensive glass. But it's all cool if someone likes a lesser expensive piece. And don't forget many well known US snipers made their shots with MK4.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

thanks guys above, was hopin I wasn't the only "crazy" man out there hangin on to his ole MK4 and lovin it
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many out there can honestly say they didnot hit there target b/c the glass in the optic sucked in the given shooting condition and that if they had better glass they would of hit the target. Now dont get me wrong b/c I am as much of a "label whore" when it comes to my kit as anyone out there, and I love debating which is better ect, but you have to admit the optics we have today are kick ass compaired to even 20 years ago when I started shooting. I know Leupold has a bad rap on this site but I know too many people who lay there life on the line behind one every day and they get the job done. Its all great when it works and its all junk when its broke. Just my 2 cents. </div></div>

(raising hand) Several times in low light. Once in pre-dawn light. This was back when this forum was just getting started. Then there was the time when I realized the reticule was not square with the turrets( read not even close ). Again this was pre-advance knowledge. I always felt like spin drift couldn't be that noticeable inside of 1000 yards.

Then there was the time that still haunts me. Nov. 2001. PA deer season. Early light just after legal shooting time in a hollow I've been hunting in for years and had taken many nice bucks. several deer were filing through the laurel in the creek bottom. I was 155 yards away watching through Steiner bino's and out steps a monster. Too bad the MK4 couldn't pick him up or at least allow me to distinguish the cross hairs from the the tree branches. before he slipped into the next hollow. I literally gave that scope away.

Jus sayin'
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cacodor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Too bad the MK4 couldn't pick him up or at least allow me to distinguish the cross hairs from the the tree branches. before he slipped into the next hollow. I literally gave that scope away.

Jus sayin' </div></div>

I take it that this was a low light situation <span style="font-style: italic">without </span>an illuminated reticle?
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cacodor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are correct. </div></div>
Then I'm not exactly seeing how it was the scope's fault.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ILYA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Origin of raw glass is the most overhyped attribute of a riflescope design, I have seen to date. There are several top notch raw glass makers out there who will all provide similar quality raw glass to you for about the same money (...).</span></div></div>
This needs to be printed in big bold letters on the first page of the optics forum so nobody can get past reading it before making a post here.

Also, many manufacturers produce scopes the optical design of which has been introduced more than a decade apart or with different design goals, and the performance of which differs accordingly from model to model. So many times people make across-the-board statements such as "XYZ has awesome/great/the best glass", they are just proving that their opinion is based more on hype and brand loyalty than actual observations of the scope models of a particular manufacturer.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cacodor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are correct. </div></div>
Then I'm not exactly seeing how it was the scope's fault. </div></div>

In the seasons after 2001 I was using a S&B 3-12 non lit (I'm not a fan of the lit ret. placement) and had very little issue in similar conditions.

JMHO
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

the glass is one thing, but the options you get with your scope is another. i have had alot of leupold , bushnells, nightforces, and just got my first uso tpal. ive had alot of experience with diffrent optics. one of the biggest problems ive had with scopes is they dont track worth a dam. i have had so many leupold with this problem, i lost track and wont buy another leupold again. there prices have gottin way out of line for what u get in a total product. bushnells 4200 and 65oo have awesome glass. the two nxs scopes had were great. the glass was great and the tracking was perfect. i really dont have anything bad to say about them. but i recently bought a uso. i have to say its a whole new level. being able to have a scope custom to u as well as awesome glass and perfect tracking. the scope is a tank and robust. yes its heavy but i dont mind knowing the scope can handle anything that gets in its way.
look.. my 1 and 1/2 cents are buy the best u can afford. if u want a scope and cant afford it, wait and save your money. it will come. i believe there are different levels of quality from what i have seen. this is just my experience.
 
Re: Who Makes the best Glass???

No mention of Sightron glass? I think I"ve heard it said that the SIII was better than NF?
 
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